It's not a matter of dismissing any criticism towards Real as 'childish'. If you think the very ground they walk on should be hallowed then fine. But without question? Don't dismiss genuine criticism of their on field antics as 'childish' and 'bitter'. What a pithy way to shut down any debate. That you can't take criticism of Real even when there is good reason for doing so yet delegitimise Liverpool's efforts in this year's competition is bizarre...childish even. Do you really think Real conduct themselves with honour on the field?
Hells bells - we're using defunct European competitions to make a point now are we? Desperate much? And yet only one of those clubs have reached the European Cup semi final (while the other has never) and actually capable of beating Barcelona rather than bottling it in epic style like a certain team from Paris. So yeah - forgive me for thinking that Roma are a more formidable force and I take greater pride and relish the challenge of facing them far more than those charlatans from Paris. History tells us so and conquering them has far greater value. Dredging up domestic home form and all that doesn't dismiss their excellent record at home in Europe this year and an atmosphere which will be volatile tonight in a way that Barcelona encountered a couple of weeks back. But then again, you just see that as me prepping the ground to wax lyrical about us in the event that we beat them tonight rather than sitting on my hands and bumbling about how 'we got lucky that we were drawn against this lot' and generally being all apologetic about us getting to the final.
You'd think that, after all the struggles of trying to get back to this stage, some of us wouldn't feel the need to proclaim 'luck' on our side while gleefully handing all the credit and praise to Real Madrid who have had the rule of the land in every sphere of the game since the year dot. In that context, luck doesn't come into it. Not by a long shot pal. We've not just worked harder than them, and fought greater challenges than them on and off the field, we've also done it in a manner that is entertaining, fascinating and endearing. But hey, if you think Madrid still deserve greater credit than us even considering all that, then I suppose you can't be persuaded.
For crying out loud, FMS, stop making up assumptions about sh*t I never said. In the previous post, you suggested that I think this Real Madrid side is comparable to Sacchi's Milan or Guardiola's Barcelona. I never said as much, that's a product of your hyperbole prone imagination. Now you infer that I think "the very ground they walk on should be hallowed". Yeah, right. I don't even like most of those players, I just think a team that achieves 4 UCL finals out of 5 is by definition a great one. Instead of going into hyperbole, why don't you answer my previous question about what you consider to be greatness?
By the way, no, I don't think this Real Madrid side is particularly classy on the field. Then again, I don't think many teams are, and I don't really give a f**k. You don't, either. After all, you just listed Guardiola's Barcelona as a "great" side and they also very commonly employed similar tactics. They also got lucky more than once with suspect refereeing, most famously against Chelsea in the semifinals.
Back to PSG vs Roma, why don't you answer the question I asked? It's a cold reality that PSG are more dangerous opponents than Roma, and nearly everyone will agree on that if not so invested in sentimentality. Yeah, Roma are in the semis, not PSG. That doesn't make them a worse team, just like Roma going beyond Man City don't make them superior to the English champions either. The person bringing up history - just to then wax lyrical about, err, Manchester City - was yourself. You can't have it both ways really. I just brought up some interesting facts, for you don't seem all that clued up on the not so prestigious history of your Italian team.
Again, I don't "feel the need" to proclaim our luck, I just think it's a simple fact that doesn't hurt me in the slightest to admit. Perhaps you would feel the same if you worried less about other club's supporters opinions. I also think it takes nothing away from our brilliant campaign and amazing comeback to the European scene. If we win it in the end, I think Klopp and those players will rightfully go down as club legends immediately.
I'm not "handing all the credit and praise to Real Madrid" either, nor shielding them from any criticism, I just think that discrediting their achievements - which are unheard of in recent years in that competition - based on their "class" or putting it down to refereeing is quite childish, and bitter.
I never even said Real deserve "more" or "less" credit than us, so after that many exchanges I have to put it down to your imagination. I only said they had a more difficult draw from the group stage to the knockout rounds, which I think is an obvious fact, but you can answer if you agree with this with a basic "yes" or "no", though I suspect you'll avoid that and write a long paragraph about stuff I never said instead.
For the record, we've faced: Sevilla, Spartak, Maribor, Porto, Man City, Roma.
Real Madrid have faced Spurs, Dortmund, APOEL, PSG, Juventus, Bayern.
Seeing the list of teams one above the other might be easier to visualise. Spurs are better than Sevilla, Dortmund are superior to Spartak. APOEL and Maribor are sh*t, I wouldn't bother comparing. PSG are superior to Porto and Bayern are so much better than Roma it's not even funny. There's only Man City (one might call them European virgins, if the idea is to use history as a stick to beat PSG) and Juventus (twice Champions League finalists in the past 3 years) to debate. But hey, if it hurts so much to admit that, because you think it says anything about how "deserving" we are, then fine, move on.