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      Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football

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      Robby The Z
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      Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Aug 11, 2017 03:34:36 pm
      The events of today and this summer remind just how much some kind of strong, central governance of world club football is needed. National FAs and cubs need to work together and set up some kind of far-reaching system of governance that would take out so much of the psychotic and unseemly dealings that go on today, with agents making the business of football into the wild wild west.

      It would be a radical change from how it's always been done, and it would require some serious thinking outside of the box. Standard transfer amounts both for lower level clubs and the top divisions would need to be agreed upon, especially when it comes to players having been developed as youth by clubs. It may also involve some kind of regulation of salary per team, tiered by divisions.

      For this to work some real authority would have to be invested in that governing board (no, not the current FIFA) and club owners would have to stand united against the tyranny of agents and the hired guns that they flout, but in the end it would create a much fairer, more competitive and ultimately rewarding setup for football fans everywhere.

      It can be done, but it requires vision.
      billythered
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #1: Aug 11, 2017 03:49:57 pm
      The events of today and this summer remind just how much some kind of strong, central governance of world club football is needed. National FAs and cubs need to work together and set up some kind of far-reaching system of governance that would take out so much of the psychotic and unseemly dealings that go on today, with agents making the business of football into the wild wild west.

      It would be a radical change from how it's always been done, and it would require some serious thinking outside of the box. Standard transfer amounts both for lower level clubs and the top divisions would need to be agreed upon, especially when it comes to players having been developed as youth by clubs. It may also involve some kind of regulation of salary per team, tiered by divisions.

      For this to work some real authority would have to be invested in that governing board (no, not the current FIFA) and club owners would have to stand united against the tyranny of agents and the hired guns that they flout, but in the end it would create a much fairer, more competitive and ultimately rewarding setup for football fans everywhere.

      It can be done, but it requires vision.




      Wouldn't work mate, one word is all it takes to F**k that notion up............
      GREED....you say your idea needs vision...it does but unfortunately vision is blinded by GREED 

      it's all around us buddy, from currupt governments to world footballing authorities GREED is what feeds these so called bastions of order and control and paid for by the masses...US !

      It's a great idea mate but it just wouldn't be allowed to happen.


      YNWA
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #2: Aug 11, 2017 03:58:46 pm
      You're right Robbie and Billy - its insane, and you're right, it will take vision, leadership and impossible levels of collaboration domestically and internationally.  Can't see it happening for one very simple reason:

      The people with power in the game are no longer the leagues' administrators, or the clubs, or even the players.  The media and the agents have absolute control now, bar a few conciliatory gestures towards clubs, players and fans.

      De-regulation and the free market have begun to, and will continue to, destroy everything that is human, good and communal in all areas of human life.  Football is no different.  As soon as the wants of the few are allowed precedence over the needs of the many, chaos and catastrophe ensue.  Technology, wealthy individuals and corporations rule the world, not governments and heads of state.  Agents and the media rule football.  Greed and small-scale self-interest will eclipse the common good.  Always.  Unless a situation is governed and regulated effectively by representatives of the majority. 

      FiFA is utterly discredited and corrupt, because it is undemocratic.  The FA is slightly more democratic, but weak, because it is full of vested interest and far too commercially orientated. 

      I can't see where a world governing body (to replace FIFA - because that would be needed) could draw its representatives or its influence (which would need to be considerable) from.  It would always be subject to the the commercial pressures brought by the powerful individuals - and a very few clubs - that have established their power base in the game.

      In short, the stable door would be bolted but the horse has long since fled.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #3: Aug 11, 2017 04:04:32 pm
      Where countries can buy players and world cups there's no chance of putting the genie back in the lamp
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #4: Aug 11, 2017 04:12:03 pm
      Somebody buy me a drink....!
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #5: Aug 11, 2017 04:49:49 pm

      Michael Edwards is on the case...
      FL Red
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #6: Aug 11, 2017 06:14:03 pm
      In American sports (at least most of them) we have things called salary caps and free agency and trades. The salary caps ensure that no team can just go around and buy up all the best talent, because when they start having to pay them, they will go over the cap and there are harsh penalties  for that.

      With free agency, most players only move when their contract is up (they are free agents) so you don't get teams coming in for players that just signed a 5 year deal. That's where trades come in....trades mean if you want that player that just signed a new 5 year deal, you'll have to give up something to get him, typically an equally talented player. Trades don't happen that often in NFL, moreso in MLB, NHL and NBA.

      Problem with implementing any kind of system like this for "soccer" though is that you'd have to have all of the world's leagues to agree to the same set of standards, otherwise it would never work. If one league decided they didn't want to institute salary caps or free agency, then players would just go to that league and get PAID.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #7: Aug 11, 2017 06:46:08 pm
      You're right Robbie and Billy - its insane, and you're right, it will take vision, leadership and impossible levels of collaboration domestically and internationally.  Can't see it happening for one very simple reason:

      The people with power in the game are no longer the leagues' administrators, or the clubs, or even the players.  The media and the agents have absolute control now, bar a few conciliatory gestures towards clubs, players and fans.

      De-regulation and the free market have begun to, and will continue to, destroy everything that is human, good and communal in all areas of human life.  Football is no different.  As soon as the wants of the few are allowed precedence over the needs of the many, chaos and catastrophe ensue.  Technology, wealthy individuals and corporations rule the world, not governments and heads of state.  Agents and the media rule football.  Greed and small-scale self-interest will eclipse the common good.  Always.  Unless a situation is governed and regulated effectively by representatives of the majority. 

      FiFA is utterly discredited and corrupt, because it is undemocratic.  The FA is slightly more democratic, but weak, because it is full of vested interest and far too commercially orientated. 

      I can't see where a world governing body (to replace FIFA - because that would be needed) could draw its representatives or its influence (which would need to be considerable) from.  It would always be subject to the the commercial pressures brought by the powerful individuals - and a very few clubs - that have established their power base in the game.

      In short, the stable door would be bolted but the horse has long since fled.

      depressing, but I can't argue with you or billy.

      Maybe I need to pick a new sport to support - something not so driven by greed.

      How's the lawn bowling looking over there this summer?
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #8: Aug 11, 2017 06:52:15 pm
      In American sports (at least most of them) we have things called salary caps and free agency and trades. The salary caps ensure that no team can just go around and buy up all the best talent, because when they start having to pay them, they will go over the cap and there are harsh penalties  for that.

      With free agency, most players only move when their contract is up (they are free agents) so you don't get teams coming in for players that just signed a 5 year deal. That's where trades come in....trades mean if you want that player that just signed a new 5 year deal, you'll have to give up something to get him, typically an equally talented player. Trades don't happen that often in NFL, moreso in MLB, NHL and NBA.

      Problem with implementing any kind of system like this for "soccer" though is that you'd have to have all of the world's leagues to agree to the same set of standards, otherwise it would never work. If one league decided they didn't want to institute salary caps or free agency, then players would just go to that league and get PAID.

      Correct about the difficulty getting the various federations in line, also, our sports club playing rosters are mainly fueled by scholastic sports, university football, basketball, etc. That is a uniquely American phenomenon, so you would need a complete set of youth acquisition and development regulations as well.

      I actually think it is club owners who would have the best chance of making this happen. Not PSG or Barca's owners mind you, a band of powerful owners spread across the continent. A super league could actually be a part of this but it would have to include all those regulations, balances, caps that I mentioned, plus a built-in pyramid to keep the smaller clubs, going down several tiers, involved and interested.

      I have no doubt it could work if those at the top would be willing to limit the extent of their profits. They would still do very well, but it wouldn't be as astronomical. And going back to billy's post, that is the biggest IF you may ever find.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #9: Aug 11, 2017 07:50:34 pm
      Did u want this when VVD put in his request?? ;)
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #10: Aug 12, 2017 05:53:37 am

      Do you want the man to die of thirst?
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #11: Aug 12, 2017 08:01:24 am
      Quote from TheleftpegofRayKennedy
      You're right Robbie and Billy - its insane, and you're right, it will take vision, leadership and impossible levels of collaboration domestically and internationally.  Can't see it happening for one very simple reason:

      The people with power in the game are no longer the leagues' administrators, or the clubs, or even the players.  The media and the agents have absolute control now, bar a few conciliatory gestures towards clubs, players and fans.

      De-regulation and the free market have begun to, and will continue to, destroy everything that is human, good and communal in all areas of human life.  Football is no different.  As soon as the wants of the few are allowed precedence over the needs of the many, chaos and catastrophe ensue.  Technology, wealthy individuals and corporations rule the world, not governments and heads of state.  Agents and the media rule football.  Greed and small-scale self-interest will eclipse the common good.  Always.  Unless a situation is governed and regulated effectively by representatives of the majority.

      He just wants to play for Barcelona.

      What you're advocating is that football become an amateur sport. Sorry it's not going to happen. We live in a dog eat dog world, many clubs have been shafted by rival clubs and players and agents, and sometimes we're an active participant in it. It's always been like that, and always will be. So we either work with the system we have or take up a different sport.

      In our sport, the biggest clubs pay the biggest fees/wages and so have the best players, and in England, charge the highest ticket prices. It's always been like  that, it's just the sums of money involved now are that much greater. 30 years ago, Peter Beardsley broke the transfer record for €2m. None of us complained and told the club, "sod it, leave him at Newcastle", we said "yes please, how much you want, thank you very much". What would it buy us now? Maybe a new subs bench, but not much else.

      We are still a wealthy club and players still want to come here. But just because one player wants his dream move, doesn't mean the whole system worldwide has to be torn up and start again. Nor will it be.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #12: Aug 12, 2017 11:42:35 am
      He just wants to play for Barcelona.

      What you're advocating is that football become an amateur sport. Sorry it's not going to happen. We live in a dog eat dog world, many clubs have been shafted by rival clubs and players and agents, and sometimes we're an active participant in it. It's always been like that, and always will be. So we either work with the system we have or take up a different sport.

      In our sport, the biggest clubs pay the biggest fees/wages and so have the best players, and in England, charge the highest ticket prices. It's always been like  that, it's just the sums of money involved now are that much greater. 30 years ago, Peter Beardsley broke the transfer record for €2m. None of us complained and told the club, "sod it, leave him at Newcastle", we said "yes please, how much you want, thank you very much". What would it buy us now? Maybe a new subs bench, but not much else.

      We are still a wealthy club and players still want to come here. But just because one player wants his dream move, doesn't mean the whole system worldwide has to be torn up and start again. Nor will it be.

      If you read my post, it's all about the power wielded by agents. Sure yesterday reminded me of this but it's not a new thought. The cart is totally before the horse because for all the things you could take out of football and have it still thrive, the fan base is something you must have. The total lack of continuity among rosters playing before communities of fans, that hurts the game in the long run.  I know this is not a new thing, but the turnover on rosters is accelerating, and once again, transfers and fees are what drive agents - that's their only motivation, to make money on deals. Remember when there was some famiiarity with a club's lineup from year to year.

      Of course you would still have transfers, and you would certainly still have money (amateur?????? Seriously?). But would it be so awful for more clubs to feel like they have an actual chance, through sound management, to build championship-winning sides rather than for a group of agents to predetermine the same few clubs, particularly those on a very uneven financial playing field, to win everything?
      Scottbot
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #13: Aug 15, 2017 07:31:49 am
      I'm sure many clubs in Europe would delight in some sort of a salary cap but as we know it completely contravenes EU law and the free market so it will never happen. FFP was supposed to redress some of the exorbitant spending but that has proved completely ineffective and has been blatantly flouted.

      As for the EPL I've given it a lot of thought over the last few months. The sheer increase in the transfer fees and the wages have shocked me over the last few months. I really can't stomach the concept of players earning 300k a week and the likes of Gylfi Sighurdsonn being sold for £50 million. The funny thing is that the clubs are not more wealthy, the extra money simply ends up in the pockets of the players and the agents. The increasing money simply ensures there is more for the vultures and parasites that infect the game. The agents, the 3rd party ownership, the bungs and back-handers etc.

      The growth of the EPL is centered almost exclusively around the TV deals, initially it was funded by what we pay for Sky, BT and terrestrial but now of course they make a stack from the worldwide rights to watch the no defence league. I was really impressed when Reds fans protested at the new pricing structure at Anfield, the protest got good coverage and it resulted in the owners making some changes.

      I'll bet a synchronised cancellation of sky/BT by a big sample of fans ahead of the next TVdeal would have an impact. I'd certainly be on board with it, I'm fed up of this richest league in the world bollox and getting fleeced nearly £100 a month for the privilege of Sky with their stealth charges and I'll still be scratching around for a stream tonight because I won't pay double and get BT. Some sort of campaign, a bit like that one that kept X factor off the xmas number one spot a few years ago would do it. Football assumes that this bubble will simply keep on growing and growing and growing but it could pop if the fans decide they don't want to pay the ever increasing TV licence fees. The internet is such a powerful tool and there are so many fan communities like this one. 
      « Last Edit: Aug 15, 2017 10:46:59 am by Scottbot »
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Bringing some sanity to transfers and other personnel matters in world football
      Reply #14: Aug 15, 2017 04:07:48 pm
      The funny thing is that the clubs are not more wealthy, the extra money simply ends up in the pockets of the players and the agents. The increasing money simply ensures there is more for the vultures and parasites that infect the game. The agents, the 3rd party ownership, the bungs and back-handers etc.


      This. When the clubs get all of this money in, the people responsible for spending the money more often than not just enter the cesspool with all of those named above. So an agent, a player and a selling club will expect to get their big share of a 50 million fee, but it's no problem to kick a "small" fee of 100,000, 200,000 or so to make someone else with some responsibility in the matter makes it happen. It's money stolen from the club basically and for most of us would make a world of difference, but these people aren't worried about what that club might be finanically, so long as they don't take so much as to get the club in financial difficulty. It's just a legal theft of money (generated ultimately by fans) at a feeding trough.

      If you could regulate transfer fees based on experience, performance and some kind of objective tribunal, you could cut a lof of the skimmers out of the business, and bring some sanity back to the decision-making.

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