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      All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.

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      bad boy bubby
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      All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      : Aug 12, 2017 09:29:17 am »
      "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be"  ;D

      But before the 'new breed' of Reds switch off from, yawn, this aul fart talking about the 'Glory Days'; listen.

      I'm not harping back to the sixties, seventies or even eighties long before many of you were either, born or (in a number of cases), drifted to the Reds because you 'needed' a Premier League team. No; I'm talking less than decade ago. A time when we were still number one in Europe and all Reds, steeped in football nous and history, "knew".

      We "knew" that a team, which was on the brink of further glory needed investment. Not the type of Western Union investment that the new breed like, set aside for a rainy day, by the way; no sir... investment in the playing staff. For you see, the Reds that were around then only "knew" and cared about football and their beloved team.

      We "knew" too that the man who had guided the Reds to two Champions League finals in three years, (as well as victories in the FA Cup and European Super Cup) needed financial support to strengthen the FOOTBALL team - we didn't 'know' or quite frankly, give a f**k about leveraged buy outs or long-term business plans. But...

      Naive, soft shites that we were, we got stroked and stroked proper. The penny had dropped overseas that we were a cash cow to be milked and milked. By 2009 tho'; sadly we were beginning learn but as football fans, we still "knew" what it took to win.

      We "knew" that a team which already oozed proper quality - Reina, Arbeloa, Hyypia, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard and Torres [there's some CL medals amongst that lot btw] needed to add quality and depth to stay competitive.

      We "knew" that the man who'd brought us this far could not do any more on a pish 'Net Spend' and we cared and argued about it because we still cared about football, we still cared about winning. What happened there; eh?  :-\

      The sands somehow shifted... Carpetbaggers got us arguing about sh*te surrounding business and they got a new breed of fan, many of which only came to the Reds late on, convinced that it was more important to gather money than to use it to win. The need to win football matches, titles and trophies somehow become less important than good business practice... even tho as one of the richest clubs in the world, we have no financial worries. Loyalties became misplaced...

      In a few short years [less than a decade] fans who want the best manager to have the best players so that their beloved Reds win titles and trophies have become something to poke and ridicule.

      From "knowing" that Rafa, with a team oozing quality, would have difficulty competing for the title without investment in quality; the accepted norm (amongst the vocal new breed anyway) is that even with more money, than Rafa could have dreamed of and even with the great Jürgen Klopp at the helm... Reds really shouldn't expect either top players or the title. We should however be content with the [Arsenal] Top Four Trophy.  :-\

      Under the "stewardship" of Carpetbaggers V.1 and V 2.0 and in a very short time period, that's what our storied team and passionate fans have become. Conditioned into accepting defeat.

      Know this tho': this Red will NOT "go gentle into that good night". You want a 'fight'?... You've got it.  ;D

      Multi billionaire Companies do NOT need your defence or your loyalty, you f**king muppets.  :bert: :ernie:
      « Last Edit: Aug 12, 2017 09:51:50 am by bad boy bubby »
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      Magillionare
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #1 : Aug 12, 2017 10:30:32 am »
      I think Hicks and Gillet really, really fu**ed us over. We went from flying high to piss poor real fast because of them. Only now are we really starting to recover from their tenure. I think everyone on here wants Liverpool to win everything available and get the best players in. But I want more than that. I seem to come to the defence of the owners a lot, not because I think JWH is a 'nice guy' he's probably a c**t to be honest.

      Under Rafa we never went out and spent the most money. Alonso was £10mill, Luis Garcia £6mill as was Reina and Agger. We spend big when we had a top player that was available (Torres at 26million) but aside from that, we brought in the right player at the right fee which I have always valued very, very highly.

      No matter who owns us, the last thing I want to see happening at Liverpool is deals like Man City are pulling off. 50 million for 2 above average full backs just because they can. Then another 100 million on unproven talent, just because they can. Any victory after that cannot taste as sweet as it did for us under Rafa where we did it the right way. We didn't buy the trophies we've won, we earned them with good business (and big money does not equal good business), we earned it with graft on the training pitch and determination on match day. F**k having a team of 50 million signings, f**k having a gaggle of plastic fans, f**k wanting to buy the league title. I'll take Solanke on a free over Kyle Walker for £50 million every f**king day of the week thanks, and no that's no me defending multi billionaire companies, that's me defending the integrity of the club.

      I bet nearly all of us have at one stage said 'Chelsea/United/City are trying to buy the league' and said it with distain. I feel sorry for City fans, because they're not a real club, they're like a modern art museum, you know everything in there is very expensive and you know they're doing good business but you can't help but think 'this is f**king sh*te'. We cannot become that.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #2 : Aug 12, 2017 11:26:08 am »
      It's a competition. The point is to win trophies. The means for doing that has to be sustained.

      It's a way of life, an obsession. It has to be preserved by sound management.
      Scottbot
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #3 : Aug 13, 2017 10:59:48 am »
      Funny thing is that had it not been for the worldwide economic meltdown carpet bangers v.1 might have got away with their leveraged approach and maintained financial backing backing for Rafa as had first appeared to the case when we were buying the likes of Masch, Torres and Babel in a short space of time.

      Your right about the new breed of fan though Mouse, the idea of an Abramovic or a Sheik Mansour seems to fill so many of our fans with disgust. It completely baffles me, how can the idea of having owners who would have us competing for the best players be a bad thing?
      redindian
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #4 : Aug 13, 2017 11:18:54 am »
      Good post BBB. While I don't want us to become a city or a Chelsea, plastic fuckers that they are, teams which we made fun of and teams which everyone hates because of buying success, I don't want us to become an Arsenal either where top 4 is the sky.

      Every season of progress cannot be followed by a season of selling. I don't want to jump into conclusions as far as this couti saga is concerned because here is a player who did not want to leave at the start of pre season. But, one thing is pretty obvious - the owners PR is a strong unit and they are taking us for a big ride.

      This was supposed to be a season of progress. Remember Jürgen talking about other teams having to worry about outgoing players which was not to be the case with us. Well, there seems to be thunder and lightning one day followed by glorious sunshine the following day - inconsistent sound bites.
      « Last Edit: Aug 13, 2017 11:22:55 am by redindian »
      lreland
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #5 : Aug 13, 2017 12:29:00 pm »
      Give me man city money win league few times f**k these rebuilt job selling best players
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #6 : Aug 13, 2017 09:34:01 pm »
      Interesting post, Bad Boy, and one 'auld fart' to another I tend to agree on your point about the Rafa team and how amassive opportunity to dominate was missed through lack of investment in players of quality and a deep-enough squad.  Spot on.

      And, yep.  Some of us have got used to setting our expectations too low, and accepting that 4th place is 'an achievement', a 'sign of progress.'  Shankly would turn in his grave.

      What I would say is that hardly any of the players you name as being the top-class heart of that team were hugely well-known (and therefore costly) to acquire in the first place, except Torres.  Gerrard, as we know, was home-grown).

      Like you, I yearn for the glory days and (probably) like you, I bore my friends and family to death yearning for them.  We are one of the few "top clubs" left that have still got some semblence of being a true 'supporters' club' left.  But we can both see that dying under the crushing weight of international corporate business interests.

      Yes, we need to compete and win again, on that we all agree.  And we do need to get in a couple of established top quality players.  But do we really need to spend Pogba-money on some big name established stars?  Has that worked for any EPL club, consistently?  There's no substitute for decent scouting and identification of suitable talent that has gone under the radar and doesn't come with the ego and the price-tag?  (and I don't mean 'potential' - may-be players who may or may not come good).
      Not to mention the wage demands! 

      Yes, we've always had the odd big-name star who cost big, be it Keegan, Dalglish, Barnes or Torres, but the majority of our best teams (and eventual stars) have often arrived as unknowns or hardly-knowns.  Look at Suarez, Rush, Aldridge, Houghton, Hyypia, even Alonso to some extent.

      I don't think we need to pay mega money every time, just work harder at talent-spotting and (please God) get better at closing transfers.  Then the real fans might start to believe we CAN win again.
      SM
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #7 : Aug 14, 2017 02:42:35 pm »
      Your right about the new breed of fan though Mouse, the idea of an Abramovic or a Sheik Mansour seems to fill so many of our fans with disgust. It completely baffles me, how can the idea of having owners who would have us competing for the best players be a bad thing?

      Yep spot on.

      Give me an Abramovich or the Sheiks all day over our owners.

      They spend to make their teams competitive then each year make 1 or 2 additions, their strategy seems to work a lot better than ours.
      Mike50806
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #8 : Aug 15, 2017 03:14:04 pm »
      I don't want us to become an Arsenal either where top 4 is the sky.

      Top 4 the sky?, no mate, it's the minimum. A minimum you can only match a few times a decade. Also, Liverpool FC have never won the premier league, so spare me the higher ambitions than Arsenal spiel. 3 FA cups in the last 4 years, also signing players the quality of lacazette, Sanchez etc., the calibre of player who still avoid lfc like the plague. Sanchez' wife and all that eh?.Liverpool have what exactly? The league cup 6 years ago?. Different levels mate. You're going backwards, we aren't.
      redindian
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #9 : Aug 15, 2017 03:21:47 pm »
      You're going backwards, we aren't.


      Right.. That's why Arsenal finished below us last season.

      crouchinho
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #10 : Aug 15, 2017 03:27:00 pm »
      Your right about the new breed of fan though Mouse, the idea of an Abramovic or a Sheik Mansour seems to fill so many of our fans with disgust. It completely baffles me, how can the idea of having owners who would have us competing for the best players be a bad thing?

      Agree with the sentiment that we need to buy quality to compete and win but the Abramovich bit doesn't sit right with me.

      The City Group, funded by the Sheikh, have been magnificent in their worldwide operations. City are an enviable organisation from their NYCFC franchise to their Melbourne City sister-club and in their off-field endeavours.

      But Abramovich is everything this club isn't.

      Anyhow, to remain on topic I think whoever argues against buying quality and supporting the manager needs a bit of a head wobble.
      Mike50806
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #11 : Aug 15, 2017 03:29:52 pm »
      Right.. That's why Arsenal finished below us last season.



      Our biggest crisis season in 25 years, and you finished 1 point ahead of us, didn't win a trophy either (We did - 3rd in 4 years). That's success is it?, If thats really how low your ambition is I pity your club.

      American Red
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #12 : Aug 15, 2017 03:30:13 pm »
      Funny thing is that had it not been for the worldwide economic meltdown carpet bangers v.1 might have got away with their leveraged approach and maintained financial backing backing for Rafa as had first appeared to the case when we were buying the likes of Masch, Torres and Babel in a short space of time.

      Your right about the new breed of fan though Mouse, the idea of an Abramovic or a Sheik Mansour seems to fill so many of our fans with disgust. It completely baffles me, how can the idea of having owners who would have us competing for the best players be a bad thing?

      I think for some folks it's not about the prize, as much as it's about the chase. I'm similar in some aspects and I think many are. For an easy example, I'd rather win the game on my own merit than use cheat codes. I think that's where people draw this mentality from that they'd rather someone build the club up properly than inject a billion dollars into it and end up with a plastic fan base.

      It's not like our owners are poor slouches either, but to me, they seem to have the right mentality and are operating on a slower, long-term process so they don't expose themselves to the same kinds of risks that "Carpetbaggers V1.0" had exposed themselves to.

      If we wanted FSG to act as the Abramovic's and Mansour's of the world, they'd likely have to take out a further debt position because they're actually spread pretty thin financially due to their ownership of others and instead have tried to re-grow the club organically by leveraging our past and commercializing the brand a bit more.

      From a business stand-point, they're actually pushing a lot of the right buttons. From the on-the-pitch standpoint, they don't have the urgency we'd like them to, but they're a hell of a lot better than what we used to have and I think we're (slowly and carefully) moving in the right direction on the pitch.

      I'm not defending them though because again on-the-pitch, they don't seem to get it in a lot of cases and they've been unwilling to forcibly make that critical, killer final step thus far when we put ourselves in positions which we could capitalize on and make the jump back to world class (i.e. this summer, the summer after we finished 2nd). Instead, I think they're more worried about making sure they don't expose themselves to financial risks.

      The owners of City, Chelsea, the mancs, Arsenal, Tottenham are all more wealthy than FSG by at least $1B and many of them don't happen to own to be the primary owners of one of the other largest franchises in world sports.
      redindian
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #13 : Aug 15, 2017 03:35:14 pm »
      Our biggest crisis season in 25 years, and you finished 1 point ahead of us, didn't win a trophy either (We did - 3rd in 4 years). That's success is it?, If thats really how low your ambition is I pity your club.



      Right, that's what I seem to have said!
      Let all clubs have the ambition of Arsenal where even the manager thinks top 4 is a trophy.
      Mike50806
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #14 : Aug 15, 2017 03:39:59 pm »
      Right, that's what I seem to have said!
      Let all clubs have the ambition of Arsenal where even the manager thinks top 4 is a trophy.

      Yeh, so embarrassing eh?.

      Asked about a top four finish being equal to winning a trophy, Klopp said: “Yes, I would say. It is the most difficult league to qualify for the Champions League because in no other league you have that wide quality, teams around that are unbelievable so, yes, I could subscribe to that".
      American Red
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #15 : Aug 15, 2017 03:41:10 pm »
      Right, that's what I seem to have said!
      Let all clubs have the ambition of Arsenal where even the manager thinks top 4 is a trophy.

      Please don't entertain this WUM.

      The absolute most interaction you should have with someone who comes to a LFC forum as a fan of some other club and starts talking sh*t like that is two words: f*ck off.
      crouchinho
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #16 : Aug 15, 2017 03:41:59 pm »
      Yeh, so embarrassing eh?.

      Asked about a top four finish being equal to winning a trophy, Klopp said: “Yes, I would say. It is the most difficult league to qualify for the Champions League because in no other league you have that wide quality, teams around that are unbelievable so, yes, I could subscribe to that".


      Mike, you're club is an embarrassment pal.

      Celebrates beating Tottenham on the ladder like it's a trophy.

      ArsenalTV exists.

      Goes on social media campaigns to win the latest Sky Sports poll.

      Jog on.
      Mike50806
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #17 : Aug 15, 2017 03:44:52 pm »
      Mike, you're club is an embarrassment pal.

      Celebrates beating Tottenham on the ladder like it's a trophy.

      ArsenalTV exists.

      Goes on social media campaigns to win the latest Sky Sports poll.

      Jog on.

      No mate, not having won your domestic league in over 30 years and only having 1 league cup to show for 10 years of effort is the embarrassment.
      crouchinho
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #18 : Aug 15, 2017 03:47:10 pm »
      No mate, not having won your domestic league in over 30 years and only having 1 league cup to show for 10 years of effort is the embarrassment.

      We've been sh*te and still it only took us one season of kinda having our sh*t together to be a better side than your mob.

      You're the worst of the top six.

      Jog. On.
      RedWilly
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #19 : Aug 17, 2017 07:16:42 pm »
      Top 4 the sky?, no mate, it's the minimum. A minimum you can only match a few times a decade. Also, Liverpool FC have never won the premier league, so spare me the higher ambitions than Arsenal spiel. 3 FA cups in the last 4 years, also signing players the quality of lacazette, Sanchez etc., the calibre of player who still avoid lfc like the plague. Sanchez' wife and all that eh?.Liverpool have what exactly? The league cup 6 years ago?. Different levels mate. You're going backwards, we aren't.


      Arsenal fans never fail to amuse :D

      Most pathetic club in the land your lot, your fans take more 360 degree turns than a f**king fidget spinner.

      Which episode of Arsenaltv have you been on?
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #20 : Aug 17, 2017 07:20:33 pm »
      No mate, not having won your domestic league in over 30 years and only having 1 league cup to show for 10 years of effort is the embarrassment.

      How sad and lonely do you have to be to log into an opposition club's forum and just generally act like a dick?

      Your club is so f**king soft, sappy and gentrified that I swear they were written into this world via a Richard Curtis movie.
      RedWilly
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #21 : Aug 17, 2017 07:25:11 pm »
      How sad and lonely do you have to be to log into an opposition club's forum and just generally act like a dick?

      Your club is so f**king soft, sappy and gentrified that I swear they were written into this world via a Richard Curtis movie.

      You've nailed it! That's what bothers me so much about them, so gentrified. The Nickleback of world football.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #22 : Aug 17, 2017 07:45:14 pm »
      You've nailed it! That's what bothers me so much about them, so gentrified. The Nickleback of world football.

      You just know there are Hugh Grant types with floppy hair and jumper wrapped around their neck stalking some north London doorstep asking this Oxbridge English lit studying tart 'w w would you be so unselfish...gosh umm...to to to...crikey...to come to the game with me this Saturday...Arsenal are playing B.. B... B.. B... Bournemouth' while some MOR trash like Simply Red booms out of her apartment in the background.

      Tw*ts.
      « Last Edit: Aug 17, 2017 07:52:54 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #23 : Aug 18, 2017 05:07:40 pm »
      Our biggest crisis season in 25 years, and you finished 1 point ahead of us, didn't win a trophy either (We did - 3rd in 4 years). That's success is it?, If thats really how low your ambition is I pity your club.



      Coming from the club banging on about success then gets routinely f**king humiliated in Europe.

      Do one dickhead, you don't become a really big club until you've won the European Cup. And we've got five to spare!!
      Magillionare
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #24 : Yesterday at 08:08:16 am »
      Our biggest crisis season in 25 years, and you finished 1 point ahead of us, didn't win a trophy either (We did - 3rd in 4 years). That's success is it?, If thats really how low your ambition is I pity your club.



      Don't you have Wenger Out signs to make?
      lfc across the water
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #25 : Today at 03:36:03 pm »
      Quote from bad boy bubby

      We "knew" too that the man who had guided the Reds to two Champions League finals in three years, (as well as victories in the FA Cup and European Super Cup) needed financial support to strengthen the FOOTBALL team - we didn't 'know' or quite frankly, give a f**k about leveraged buy outs or long-term business plans.

      We "knew" that a team which already oozed proper quality - Reina, Arbeloa, Hyypia, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard and Torres [there's some CL medals amongst that lot btw] needed to add quality and depth to stay competitive.

      That team didn't need investment to beat Hull at home. Or Birmingham at home. Or Stoke at home. Or Wigan at home. Or worse, Barnsley at home. There was more than enough quality there to get the job done, against teams of pub players on a fraction of our budget. But on each occasion above, amongst many others, it didn't happen.

      Quote from Magillionare
      Under Rafa we never went out and spent the most money. Alonso was £10mill, Luis Garcia £6mill as was Reina and Agger. We spend big when we had a top player that was available (Torres at 26million) but aside from that, we brought in the right player at the right fee which I have always valued very, very highly.

      No matter who owns us, the last thing I want to see happening at Liverpool is deals like Man City are pulling off. 50 million for 2 above average full backs just because they can. Then another 100 million on unproven talent, just because they can. Any victory after that cannot taste as sweet as it did for us under Rafa where we did it the right way.

      Just over 10 years ago, the sheikhs from Dubai were sniffing around to buy us the league. There were no protests outside Anfield at the time telling them to go spin. Zero. No fan is going to turn down the chance of winning league titles, whether it's City or anyone else. And if it means a sheikh on the take to do it, then they'll gladly take it.

      As it turned out they never arrived, and we ended up with a bunch of conmen who thought we were as important as Weetabix. But as Singleton boasts in the manc thread, most fans don't care about how much the fee is, as long as it's paid.
      MIRO
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      Re: All Our Yesterdays and Shifting Sands.
      Reply #26 : Today at 07:37:05 pm »
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40914669

      You'll find the interview post match   Huddersfield v Newcastle ...   of Rafa .

      Listen to his voice after only the second Premiership game .

      Look at his resigned expression.


      This is a man that has been fu**ed over one too many times ...... first by Hicks and Gillett secondly by Real Madrid and now the biggest con man of the lot Mike Ashley.  Rafa who ... if he got the Toon the golden fleece of Premiership riches again ... was promised money to build a Premiership team.
      With only days left to go, Ashley has the millions but Rafa isn't getting any except "sell to buy ".

      Rafa .
      A man of integrity who built for us the best Reds team in a generation and has rightly been said .. who took us to two CL Finals
      in two years.

      The difference between a Geordie and a Yank is that a Yank does it with a smirk and a smile.


      All  Our Yesterdays.

      When integrity , your word and honour was important .

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