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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Watford?

      Simon Mignolet
      4 (4%)
      Trent Alexander-Arnold
      21 (20.8%)
      Dejan Lovren
      1 (1%)
      Joel Matip
      0 (0%)
      Alberto Moreno
      6 (5.9%)
      Emre Can
      4 (4%)
      Jordan Henderson
      0 (0%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      1 (1%)
      Mohammed Salah
      24 (23.8%)
      Sadio Mane
      26 (25.7%)
      Roberto Firmino
      13 (12.9%)
      Joe Gomez
      0 (0%)
      James Milner
      0 (0%)
      Divock Origi
      1 (1%)

      Total Members Voted: 100

      Voting closed: Aug 16, 2017 02:31:55 pm

      Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      LFCbronx
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #690 : Aug 12, 2017 02:45:22 pm »
      Catch it ? It was hit  at him from close range hes not  Mr miyagi. If he should have caught anything it was the initial shot that went for corer

      fair enough, but he's still not very good

      We signed a LB for near on 10mill but apparently he wasn't even good enough to get decent minutes in pre-season...

      My bad, I forgot. Another one 'for the future' haha
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #691 : Aug 12, 2017 02:45:26 pm »
      Migs:     4        the usual hatful of calamities
      TAA:      6.5      my MOTM (just), composed, great set piece delivery, good perf from the young lad
      Matip:    5        needs to be more dominant, little shakey on the ball
      Lovren:  5.5      abrasive if nothing else
      Moreno: 6        good pace from him, definately decent attacking option, just looks stretched when defending
      Gini:       4       v poor, particularly a late missed chance, and then terrible missed header/clearance
      Can:       6       improved in 2nd half, decent from Emre
      Hendo:   5       not bad, but would expect a lot more
      Mane:     6    super goal, quiet in 2nd half tho
      Salah:    6.5    hateful of chances, got one, could've had a lot more, good positions tho
      Firmino:  5    got a peno, and an assist that was a shot, apart from that did nothing
      J├╝rgen:   5    too late making change, and changes were not good (origi didn't touch the ball, Salah should not have come off for Milner, TAA either, jsut for the sake of giving guys a run)

      Maybe didn't do enough to totally deserve the win, but still we should have just closed out for the 3 points.
      Not just down to the defenders at corners/set pieces, we need to defend as a team, and we still can't.
      Still create a lot of chances, but miss a lot.

      If nothing else, might light a fire under the transfer committee..

      How does the attack compare to the defence mate, we scored 3 goals, could have had 3 more. Yet in defence we conceded 3 and could have conceded more, I just don't see how you can give them similar ratings. As for Firmino being the 3rd worst player on the pitch, you're having a laugh mate.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Live: Watford vs Liverpool
      Reply #692 : Aug 12, 2017 02:45:36 pm »
      It was never a convincing display, and you just knew with those chances we missed, our defending and J├╝rgen's inclusion of tinkering with the defence so late in the game would come back to haunt us and we predictably surrendered 2pts.

      I think I'd rather get back to the Coutinho lark than the football, because it wasn't that good. Granted Salah who clearly has no right foot could have had a hatrick on another day, and he did well chasing the skewed lob Bobby served up. Bobby himself decided to come to life for 20 minutes or so during the 90. Completely invisible first half but he got involved from the off in the second half and tucked away a nice pen only to drift back out the game 10-15 minutes later. The hype he gets does amuse because he needs to be way more present and consistent in the game for the duration.

      Mignolet was terrible in his distribution and claims, and at times with a non-existent defence in front of him it was just a recipe for disaster. Most of us were sat watching Arsenal waggin our finger at how they couldn't defend corners yesterday but f**k in hell, we really have lost the art of defending from set-pieces. It's simply not good enough and J├╝rgen must take the brunt of responsibility for that.

      I see the reservations about a Can/Henderson/Gini midfield, overall it was poor defensively and not much better offensively - it's very sterile.

      J├╝rgen needs to wake-up and smell the coffee on a number of fronts, because not only has our summer window left more questions than answers, one in which he brought a winger in, when in reality a position in each part of the spine actually could have done with filling, but the bench to look at was tat with the bonus of CL football around the corner, but the defending from set-pieces was just diabolical - and we on the first 90 mins of football look worse than we did last season. Not good.
      « Last Edit: Aug 12, 2017 02:50:12 pm by Beerbelly »
      Fourbrick
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #693 : Aug 12, 2017 02:45:37 pm »
      Well he's under contract and we don't have to sell him.

      If he wants to sulk for a season and ruin any chance of joining Barca next Summer that's his problem not ours.

      As Mr Shankly once said, "If he doesn't want to play for Liverpool he shouldn't even be at the club."
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #694 : Aug 12, 2017 02:46:27 pm »
      As for Firmino being the 3rd worst player on the pitch, you're having a laugh mate.

      I actually thought it was a toss up between him and Mane for MOTM.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #695 : Aug 12, 2017 02:46:28 pm »
      Watch their first goal. i give up.

      For what it's worth, was probably the best defended of the lot because each goal got worse and worse!
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #696 : Aug 12, 2017 02:46:44 pm »
      Ratings:

      Mignolet: Dire, couldn't catch a cold. Couldn't catch the ball when he shouts, couldn't roll a ball out. Kicks the ball straight out of play. I mean how many issues can one player have. 1

      Trent: Brilliant, his crosses were outstanding, his set-pieces were outstanding and his defending was decent enough. 7

      Matip: He played ok, but not near his best in my opinion. 6

      Lovren: He's a ball of nerves and that transmits to everyone. 5

      Moreno: Played well in the second half, not as well in the first but that was magnified by the players around him. 6.5

      Henderson: Passed the ball better in the second half but seriously was he anywhere near any of their breaks, did he put in meaningful challenges, poor I thought. 5

      Can: Better in the second half, but poor in the first half, too similar to Henderson and neither does enough. Decent for the assist and was probably our best midfielder and that is not a compliment. 6

      Gini: Horrific in everything he did today. Shot wide from the edge of the box with a glorious chance, back passed with another great chance. F**ked up at the end and again wasn't even in the game in the first half. 3

      Salah: Thought he played well apart from the finishes, needs to be more clinical and could have had a hat-trick today but encouraging. 7

      Firmino: Goal, assist, the only player that grabbed it by the scruff and made a real difference. Worrying that he went off, hopefully just being saved. 8

      Mane: Pure quality, he's an awesome player and literally said to Watford "you're sh*te, I'm amazing" with his goal and showed them it. 8.5 MotM.

      Klopp: Didn't rectify our defensive problems at set-pieces, had us going into the game with a really poor midfield and kept faith with Migs. Poor substitution with Gomez which back-fired and all in all a  bad day for the big German. 5

      Time to save it, there's time in this window but if we keep going with that 3 in midfield we'll be punished time and again. Also a point for all those who say we struggle against the bus parkers, scoring 3 goals isn't struggling, but conceding 3 against anyone most certainly is. Defence a far bigger issue than our attack as was said at the end of the season. So disappointed with our midfield and Migs/Lovren/Matip, so weak.

      How much respect does Klopp have for himself, the team, the club and the whole fans if he's starting that useless bag of sh*t in goal? J├╝rgen is embarrassing himself now.

      I have never seen a goalkeeper with so many issues. He can't kick. He can't save. He can't catch and he can't kick. He can't shout and he can't run. But he's Liverpool's first choice goalkeeper. He's a charlatan.

      He must be the first and only ever player in world football to have made a career our of being that dorky, pitiful kid who was always picked last in the football team and booted out to play in goal because no one wants to have him on their team. He has all the hallmarks of being that dorky kid and yet somehow, SOMEHOW, he's made his way up to being first choice keeper at a club that won 5 European Cups, replacing Jose Manuel Reina, yes JOSE MANUEL REINA. Someone tell me I'm living in some sort of massive Truman Show like joke of a world? Is Jeremy Beadle back from the dead? Someone tell me this is all an elaborate joke.
      ed603em
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #697 : Aug 12, 2017 02:46:51 pm »
      What's also worth mentioning is that Watford lost two players to injuries and had two enforced changes - the first after only 15 minutes - and we still couldn't win. It was like our back five and goalkeeper were wearing blindfolds ... absolutely shambolic
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #698 : Aug 12, 2017 02:47:01 pm »
      s for Firmino being the 3rd worst player on the pitch, you're having a laugh mate.

      Fishing mate. That's all.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #699 : Aug 12, 2017 02:48:25 pm »
      I would let Saints completely rinse us, just pay what ever it takes for VVD.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #700 : Aug 12, 2017 02:48:39 pm »
      I actually thought it was a toss up between him and Mane for MOTM.

      I agree, Bobby might have had it if he'd played the full 90, certainly wasn't much between them. Really unsure what people see when they watch him, he won back more balls than our midfielders, he set up so many chances and linked up brilliantly with Mane and Salah.

      Slotted a pen with quite a bit of pressure on, sure you can say the assist was 'lucky' but that first touch time and again was fantastic. He was one of the few players who actually competed with Watford and not get bullied once. When you compare that to how we were bullied in other areas ranking him as the 3rd worse is nothing but bias imo.
      Scotia
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #701 : Aug 12, 2017 02:49:06 pm »
      The entire defence was awful - think a lot of people overstating Trent's performance because he's a kid.

      He was just as culpable in my opinion - the difference is he has an excuse and he WILL improve.

      The rest aren't good enough together.
      bmck
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #702 : Aug 12, 2017 02:49:43 pm »
      As for Firmino being the 3rd worst player on the pitch, you're having a laugh mate.

      Don't have time to go into too much detail, but on Bob, got a peno, and an assist that was a shot, but still our worst player on the pitch in 1st half, just a decent 5 min spell in 2nd.  If I thought he played well, would say, guess just see if differently.
      Was critical of TAA last season, but was much better today.
      KS67
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #703 : Aug 12, 2017 02:50:23 pm »
      New season, same sh*t defending.

      Playing catch up from week one, good job we reinforced the squad so much...
      lreland
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #704 : Aug 12, 2017 02:51:45 pm »
      But let get real may only be first game but these be going on since last year klopp spent some money on cback or midfielder both areas joke and goalkeeper
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #705 : Aug 12, 2017 02:52:00 pm »
      Looking at the positives of the game. It was great to see each of the 3 front players all get a goal as well as 2 of them get an assist as well. Very promising signs from them 3 from the off.

      TAA, good to see someone actually capable of taking an effective corner, we were very unlucky not to increase the lead as a result of his corner in that Matip put onto the bar.

      Moreno, gets his fair share of stick and rightly so but where a bit of credit is due, as the game went on, he definitely upped his performance which is more than what can be said of the midfield.

      Other than that, there were very few positive signs of note.
      Tadders
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #706 : Aug 12, 2017 02:52:13 pm »
      We are all gutted right. So surely jurgen must be a million times worse - so he must change this defence in the time left. It can't be fun watching us throw away so many goals, it must kill him 
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Live: Watford vs Liverpool
      Reply #707 : Aug 12, 2017 02:52:54 pm »
      I get taking Salah off but it should have been Gini that went off at the end, not TAA. Full back for a makeshift full back makes no sense at all. TAA was doing well enough

      Yep surely had enough in the tank to see out the match.

      You could also argue that taking firmino off was a bad move he does so much pressing from the front.

      And that bag of dicks between the sticks just needs to f**k off. How many attempts did we have to theirs and yet we draw 3-3 he can't even complete a 5 yard throw for f**k sake.
      redkop63
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #708 : Aug 12, 2017 02:52:54 pm »
      Can,  Gini and Hendo in midfield, does Klopp even knows he has got a very fecking slow and lighweight midfield? Can, tough but no use too slow, hendo - has got more side and backpasses then any other players that I can remember, Gini -  too much negatives for me to mention, shouldn't have been bought in the first place. We still have the same trio in midfield, be prepared to have more days like this. We used to have one of the strongest if not the strongest midfield, now we have a slow and lightweigh midfield.

      But Klopp needs to take a big share of the blame for making the late substitutions with a nervy defence. Watford, exploited the situation.
      rossyred
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #709 : Aug 12, 2017 02:52:57 pm »
      fair enough, but he's still not very good

      My bad, I forgot. Another one 'for the future' haha

      Agree he was poor with the things he had to do
      Fourbrick
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #710 : Aug 12, 2017 02:52:58 pm »
      On reflection, the boss has to take the blame for, yet again his poor substitutions, bringing on Gomez for Alexander was a bad decision. Gomez didn't have enough time to get accustomed to the game. Why wasn't Wijnaldum substituted, he had a mare of a game.He should have brought Gruji─ç  on in his place.
      DanMann
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #711 : Aug 12, 2017 02:53:05 pm »
      I'm not sure it was offside. He was level with the ball when it was played.

      I don't see how that was not offside. I've seen the replay.
      Scotia
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #712 : Aug 12, 2017 02:53:46 pm »
      I don't see how that was not offside. I've seen the replay.

      It was
      chats
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #713 : Aug 12, 2017 02:54:54 pm »
      Main points for me:

      What do we actually work on in training in terms of defending? Been almost two years under J├╝rgen now and it's still exactly the bloody same.

      The LB situation is an absolute disaster, we've 100% signed the wrong person if he can't get into the side ahead of Moreno or Milner. Wasn't Moreno's worst day by any means but there's just no way he can be our LB long term.

      More I watch Matip the more overrated I think he is. Probably an unpopular opinion on here but I just don't see it with him. Nowhere near as poor as Lovren but not sure he's the solution for us long term. The fact we still haven't signed a CB in mid August when we probably need two is absolutely astonishing.

      Midfield three were a bit of a disaster. Hendo didn't protect the defenders at all, Can put in a classic up and down performance that is quickly becoming his trademark (but at least he always looks to do something, involved heavily in two goals) and Gini was just plain awful. Again, the fact we haven't signed another is mental.

      Front three showed that they'll score goals, they did their bit by grabbing three away from home which was at least a little bit of encouragement on an otherwise awful day.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #714 : Aug 12, 2017 02:55:01 pm »
      Slotted a pen with quite a bit of pressure on

      He looks boss at penalties so far, dispatches them with ease and so much confidence.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #715 : Aug 12, 2017 02:55:29 pm »
      I would let Saints completely rinse us, just pay what ever it takes for VVD.

      Do you think the yanks will help jurgen out? They'll probably ask him to make do with what he has and fix it from there.
      DanMann
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #716 : Aug 12, 2017 02:56:09 pm »
      I don't see how that was not offside. I've seen the replay.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yfGgGRet-k

      Player was standing in an offside position.

      Whether the ball was square or forward, he was directly interfering with play, and then scored following the movement.
      Harrisimo
      • Forum Alan Hansen
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #717 : Aug 12, 2017 02:57:01 pm »
      Zonal marking can work as long as you ID defenders to attack the ball..to many trying to block, nobody tracking the ball and attacking the ball.

      I said this numerous times on other sites and they turned on me for offering something that professional defenders should do naturally.  But attacking the ball is not always what they do...they think block first and only attack the ball when it's a clear header.

      Stay strong, track the ball..attack it. But as the corner or free kick is being taken they are actually trying to organise and their focus is not sharp enough.

      Best defender in terms of attacking the ball..John Terry. Nothing stopped him from getting to the ball first.

      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #718 : Aug 12, 2017 02:57:15 pm »
      Yep surely had enough in the tank to see out the match.

      You could also argue that taking firmino off was a bad move he does so much pressing from the front.

      Only thinking behind TAA I can think of is that because he was on a yellow card but even still, he didn't look like picking up a 2nd.

      Firmino, I think took a bit of a knock not long before he went off, maybe was taken off as a precaution for the next 2 games we have in a short space of time.
      Tadders
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      Re: Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #719 : Aug 12, 2017 02:58:11 pm »
      why the f**k doesn't carra get a job as defensive coach ?

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