Watford 3-3 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

Slotted a pen with quite a bit of pressure on

He looks boss at penalties so far, dispatches them with ease and so much confidence.

I would let Saints completely rinse us, just pay what ever it takes for VVD.

Do you think the yanks will help Jürgen out? They'll probably ask him to make do with what he has and fix it from there.

I don't see how that was not offside. I've seen the replay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yfGgGRet-k

Player was standing in an offside position.

Whether the ball was square or forward, he was directly interfering with play, and then scored following the movement.

Zonal marking can work as long as you ID defenders to attack the ball..to many trying to block, nobody tracking the ball and attacking the ball.

I said this numerous times on other sites and they turned on me for offering something that professional defenders should do naturally.  But attacking the ball is not always what they do...they think block first and only attack the ball when it's a clear header.

Stay strong, track the ball..attack it. But as the corner or free kick is being taken they are actually trying to organise and their focus is not sharp enough.

Best defender in terms of attacking the ball..John Terry. Nothing stopped him from getting to the ball first.

Yep surely had enough in the tank to see out the match.

You could also argue that taking firmino off was a bad move he does so much pressing from the front.

Only thinking behind TAA I can think of is that because he was on a yellow card but even still, he didn't look like picking up a 2nd.

Firmino, I think took a bit of a knock not long before he went off, maybe was taken off as a precaution for the next 2 games we have in a short space of time.

why the F**k doesn't carra get a job as defensive coach ?

The entire defence was awful - think a lot of people overstating Trent's performance because he's a kid.

He was just as culpable in my opinion - the difference is he has an excuse and he WILL improve.

The rest aren't good enough together.

Agreed. Defo culpable with a fumbled clearance for their second.

How's that for assertiveness.

Furious. Like Swansea last season we play well to get back into a game then throw it away. Nevermind two of their goals were probably offside that was sh*te.

Just can't do it can we ?

How's that for assertiveness.

There's nothing to Britos, built like a racing snake but he's got Migs cowering away there with ease. A top keeper would have been in control there.

Well I never. Expected us to score 3 against these, but never did I expect us to concede three. Diabolical I think, and a backward step from last season. Lots of work tobedone before window closes or we certainly won't put in achallenge for top spot defending like this !

Migs - 4 Back to old self distribution wise

TAA- 7 Generally good in all areas bit of poor clearance for 2nd goal but RB for years to come hopefully

Moreno - 6 Didnt think he was great but seems to have registered with him around his defensive duties

Lovren/Matip -6 Neither great and links with goals conceded no leadership qualities in either of them

Gini- 4 Lucky he gets that just so poor and offers nothing especially away . At fault for 3rd goal and could have scored at least one

Hendo- 6 Got better in 2nd half but still yet to convince me that he can grab a game by scruff of neck . Think releasing captaincy from him would help him in long run.

Can- 6.5 Better second half hand in goal  and some nice bits but not enough looks cumbersome too often

Mane -8 MOM offers so much threat

Salah -7 Could have had another goal with a bit more composure and a right foot . But a steady debut and was in the thick of things

Firminho -6.5 Much better second half and hand in both goals but lost ball to many times and isnt and never will be a CF. Would be much more effective behind a striker IMO

Klopp-6 Tried to see game out with two subs just not sure taking Salah off helps and gave them a lift to attack more knowing he was off

Probably we really have an average team after all  :-

 Simon Mignolet (Average)
 Trent Alexander-Arnold (Can't comment now)
 Dejan Lovren (Average)
 Joel Matip (Slightly above average)
 Alberto Moreno (Below Average)
 Emre Can (Slightly above average)
 Jordan Henderson (Average)
 Georginio Wijnaldum (Poor)
 Mohammed Salah (Good)
 Sadio Mane (Good)
 Roberto Firmino (Above average)
 Joe Gomez (Average)
 James Milner (Average)

8 out of a list 12 players on average or below average in my assessment. I'm sure Klopp knows that.

Zonal marking can work as long as you ID defenders to attack the ball..to many trying to block, nobody tracking the ball and attacking the ball.

I said this numerous times on other sites and they turned on me for offering something that professional defenders should do naturally.  But attacking the ball is not always what they do...they think block first and only attack the ball when it's a clear header.

Stay strong, track the ball..attack it. But as the corner or free kick is being taken they are actually trying to organise and their focus is not sharp enough.

Best defender in terms of attacking the ball..John Terry. Nothing stopped him from getting to the ball first.

 

Too flat footed marking the space which is why they probably think block first as the runner comes in.

But see Firmino just stand there and watch his man run onto the header.

I cannot believe a manager like Klopp hasn't addressed this.

In all honesty forget VVD and just buy another attacking player. Keep playing TAA and Moreno too. F**k the D. Klopp won't put the emphasis on coaching D so just say f**k all together and just try and score a sh*t load of goals. All it took was one good game to justify Moreno for him, and it's because of his attack. He probably has a chub for TAA playing over a solid defender because he can attack better. It's what it's all about.  I love Klopp, but the fact that our D has only gotten worst since he has been here is completely on him.

Bit harsh I think TAA is good in defence myself, I'd definitely have him over Clyne.

There's nothing to Britos, built like a racing snake but he's got Migs cowering away there with ease. A top keeper would have been in control there.

An average keeper would've just shrugged him right off. Could've thrown his entire arm and shoulder into him. One case scenario, Britos backs off, most likely case scenario, Britos shrugs back and the ref immediately blows for foul.

Mignolet quite literally couldn't have played that worse. And anyone actively defending him needs to open their eyes up.

See that bit when loads of people tried to warn you the lack transfer business was inadequate, this is why.

Huge few weeks left for Liverpool.

Really feel the momentum we felt we had in May could easily slip away with bad defending, disappointing results and cowardly transfer business.

Nothing has changed.  The starting XI is bang average.  I'm starting to wonder if maybe we should indeed sell Coutinho.  He's papering over a lot of cracks.  At least then Klopp and FSG will be faced with how rubbish most of our players are.

Mignolet.  Why is he still the starting keeper at Liverpool Football Club?  We know he's sh*te, he was sh*te for three straight seasons, that's why we went out and bought Karius.  Then it turns out Karius was sh*te, too.  But the entire reason we BOUGHT Karius was *because* Mignolet was sh*te.  So why have we gone back to the original sh*te?  Neither Mignolet nor Karius is good enough.  Is Danny Ward really that awful, that he can't get a game ahead of those two clowns?  Absolute shambles today from Mignolet, forget the goals, what about when he kicked it (again!) practically into the dugout from a free kick, with no one around him for thirty yards.  Or when we had that counter attack going and he just.... rolled it up the middle of the pitch right back to Watford.  Or that flop when Lovren ducked out of the way and Mignolet could barely hang on to the ball.

Then there's the midfield.  What, pray tell, is it that Henderson does?  I mean it, what does he *do*?  and what does Wijnaldum do?  at least Wijnaldum has the slight excuse of only having one season under his belt for us.  What is Henderson's excuse?  And where was he getting into the lads' faces in the first half, when they looked like they had just woken up from a nap?  No where to be found of course.  Some captain.

The scariest part about today is how chaotic we looked.  Watford were so organized, they played together, and yet they weren't parking the bus.  Without the ball they held their lines, when they got it they attacked.  We play so disjointed, like a bunch of chickens running around with their heads cut off, not communicating, totally disorganized.  What the hell do we actually do in training?  how is it possible that Watford, *Watford*, can be better drilled than we are?

Everything about us on the pitch right now just screams mediocrity. 

Well, it looks like the less things change the more they stay the same.

As soon as you saw that starting 11, and the bench, it just brought home our lack of seriousness in this window.
You can hardly blame Coutinho for thinking that he wants to go somewhere with more ambition. He's been here 4 and a 1/2 years and the squad is no stronger than when he arrived ( its slightly weaker actually).

The most glaring indictment of FSG's failure to address obvious weaknesses is Alberto f**king Moreno starting at LB. While our low budget replacement doesn't even make the bench. It's just absolutely pathetic. There is no way Moreno would still be turning out for Chelsea or Citeh. He would be long, long gone.

Our overall defending was a joke as usual. Carnage down our left flank of course ( a lot quieter on the other side where TAA did a decent job). And just like we couldn't buy a starting LB, we also haven't bought a CB.

It's more than just individuals fault at set pieces though - organisationally we are a mess. Their first goal was f**king baffling - Lovren at one end of the 6 yard box, Matip the other end, and Firmino on his own in the middle trying to "mark" - in the loosest sense of the term - basically all the onrushing Watford players! Any sort of ball in there at all and it's a goal. It was genuine pub team defending.

Only positives were TAA and Salah looking like he has plenty of goals in him - he played more like a striker than a winger, getting into a lot of dangerous positions. We are going to need that, given our ongoing failure to bring in an actual real striker.

FSG - you say you are going to keep Coutinho. Good, cos we f**king need him. But we also need some serious reinforcements urgently. If we can't get VVD, get somebody else. Is he the only centre back in the f**king world? Surely for £60m you can find a good one somewhere. And if Robertson isn't good enough to start ahead of Moreno then god help us go back into the market and get somebody that is.

And then we could still do with a striker, and possibly a DM and a goalie ( although I am not blaming Mig too much for their third - the guy gets no protection at set pieces whatsover. And Jürgen needs to sort that out on the training ground - we just shouldn't be seeing us set up like at their first goal, no matter who our defenders are.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yfGgGRet-k

Player was standing in an offside position.

Whether the ball was square or forward, he was directly interfering with play, and then scored following the movement.

Yeah, just seen it again and you're right. His body was in line with the ball but his foot was ahead of it so he was offside

Migs - 5 poor distribution and concentration.

TAA- 7 good generally and might well push clyne this season

Moreno - 7 a lot more stable in defence and still offered something going forward

Lovren - 6 unconvincing and familiar issues.

Matip - 5.5 aside from the header that hit the bar possibly his worst performance didnt even jump for the first goal.

Gini- 6 kept it simple and kept the ball well but poor infront of goal.

Hendo- 6.5 much better second half with a bit more intensity and some decent long balls

Can- 6 I didnt think emre offered much today aside from a few tackles and forward runs.

Mane -8 Best player easily in the first half and was a threat throughout.

Salah - 7 Thought he was a threat but squandered several chances. Still settling in.

Firmino - Understated but calm and effective. He won the ball back and linked the front 3 without being anywhere near his best.

Klopp-5  poor decision to bring gomez on and milner on for salah didnt work.

Nothing has changed.  The starting XI is bang average.  I'm starting to wonder if maybe we should indeed sell Coutinho.  He's papering over a lot of cracks.  At least then Klopp and FSG will be faced with how rubbish most of our players are.

Mignolet.  Why is he still the starting keeper at Liverpool Football Club?  We know he's sh*te, he was sh*te for three straight seasons, that's why we went out and bought Karius.  Then it turns out Karius was sh*te, too.  But the entire reason we BOUGHT Karius was *because* Mignolet was sh*te.  So why have we gone back to the original sh*te?  Neither Mignolet nor Karius is good enough.  Is Danny Ward really that awful, that he can't get a game ahead of those two clowns?  Absolute shambles today from Mignolet, forget the goals, what about when he kicked it (again!) practically into the dugout from a free kick, with no one around him for thirty yards.  Or when we had that counter attack going and he just.... rolled it up the middle of the pitch right back to Watford.  Or that flop when Lovren ducked out of the way and Mignolet could barely hang on to the ball.

Then there's the midfield.  What, pray tell, is it that Henderson does?  I mean it, what does he *do*?  and what does Wijnaldum do?  at least Wijnaldum has the slight excuse of only having one season under his belt for us.  What is Henderson's excuse?  And where was he getting into the lads' faces in the first half, when they looked like they had just woken up from a nap?  No where to be found of course.  Some captain.

The scariest part about today is how chaotic we looked.  Watford were so organized, they played together, and yet they weren't parking the bus.  Without the ball they held their lines, when they got it they attacked.  We play so disjointed, like a bunch of chickens running around with their heads cut off, not communicating, totally disorganized.  What the hell do we actually do in training?  how is it possible that Watford, *Watford*, can be better drilled than we are?

Everything about us on the pitch right now just screams mediocrity. 

Yep