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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Hoffenheim?

      Simon Mignolet
      19 (15.8%)
      Trent Alexander-Arnold
      69 (57.5%)
      Joel Matip
      0 (0%)
      Dejan Lovren
      1 (0.8%)
      Alberto Moreno
      1 (0.8%)
      Emre Can
      0 (0%)
      Jordan Henderson
      0 (0%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      0 (0%)
      Mohammed Salah
      1 (0.8%)
      Sadio Mane
      27 (22.5%)
      Roberto Firmino
      2 (1.7%)
      Marko Grujić
      0 (0%)
      James Milner
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 114

      Voting closed: Aug 19, 2017 09:41:03 pm

      1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      LondonRed83
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #667: Aug 16, 2017 08:19:32 am
      So Hoffenheim have to score a minimum of 2 goals at Anfield.

      Surely that takes the pressure off a bit and gives the boys an opportunity to play some proper football.

      Can't wait.
      Dadorious
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #668: Aug 16, 2017 08:40:29 am
      That back line is absolutely woeful only one to emerge with any credit is TAA and he was at fault for their goal. Lovren and Moreno on same side is like mixing oil and water.

      Midfield trio were bang on average the positive is 2 away goals.
      Scottbot
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #669: Aug 16, 2017 08:51:00 am
      Despite the defensive worries that are so evident I is important to recognise what a good result that was last night. Am sure we would all have bitten hands off if offered that before kick off. Fingers crossed we push on to secure qualification and that with that comes a flurry of transfer activity.
      Muzzman1969
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #670: Aug 16, 2017 09:10:07 am
      Great result, even with the late goal.  Not an easy qualifying game, as German sides are not easy to play against.

      The more open the game the more chances we will have and it will suit us if they come on to us - we are more susceptible to the break in my opinion.

      Part of our defensive problems stem from the way we try and play on the front foot.

      Interesting or worrying that an 18 year old full back is becoming our dead ball specialist.
      Scottbot
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #671: Aug 16, 2017 09:19:32 am
      Great result, even with the late goal.  Not an easy qualifying game, as German sides are not easy to play against.

      The more open the game the more chances we will have and it will suit us if they come on to us - we are more susceptible to the break in my opinion.

      Part of our defensive problems stem from the way we try and play on the front foot.

      Interesting or worrying that an 18 year old full back is becoming our dead ball specialist.

      Absolutely right mate, we didn't always know the right times to press the ball last night and often we had lads doing it in ones and twos when it needs to be the whole team. They beat our press a few times and got right at us on several occasions. I wish we would play deeper and more compact in some of those situations, especially when we're 2-0 up away in a big European game.

      As for TAA you bet he's our new dead ball specialist, even if Phil stays he should take the corners and in direct free kicks. We've been horrendous at corners for soooo many years, this kid takes a beteeer corner than Gerrard (his corners were dodgy), miles better than Milner (his are horrendous and float with no pace) and they are better than Phils. I was Pissed off when Moreno exercised some seniority when we got a free kick in a good spot on the left towards the end of the game last night when an I swinger was the best play. Trent should take them all!

      Klopp said that Trent and Woodbury have a set piece battle at the end of training everyday. It's great to k ow we've got a couple of youngsters coming through who can take a decent FK.
      « Last Edit: Aug 16, 2017 01:02:12 pm by Scottbot »
      skamp
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #672: Aug 16, 2017 09:25:40 am
      Didn't get to see the game, but when I saw the side was unchanged from Watford, I'd have snapped your hand off for a draw, let alone a win!  ANY away win in CL is priceless.  How anyone can say they're okay with that midfield trio starting together is beyond me.  Only 2 max can play of those 3 and whilst our options are limited without our 2 creative midfielders, ANYTHING has to be better. 

      Defence is still very jittery and Robertson has to start soon IMO.

      In attack we look good with the pace of the 2 wide players, but need something more from midfield to feed them.  I fear if we were to lose Salah or (more so) Mane to injury.

      However, if we were to land VVD, Robertson proves himself to be a solid LB, Cout stays one more season and Lallana regains fitness, this line-up looks pretty handy to me: -

                       Don't Care

      TAA/Clyne   Matip   VVD   Robertson

            Lallana     Hendo       Cout
       
            Salah      Firmino      Sane

      Doesn't have to be 4 3 3 as such and midfield/attack positions interchangeable.

      Subs - TAA/Clyne, Milner, Gomez, Sturridge, Solanke

      That kind of line-up might see us challenge on a couple of fronts at least?

      Muzzman1969
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #673: Aug 16, 2017 09:26:23 am
      I was Moreno exercised some seniority when we got a free kick in a good spot on the left towards the end of the game last night when an I swinger was the best play.

      Yes, at the time I was looking for an inswinger, one of those that sneaks its way in at the far post.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #674: Aug 16, 2017 09:27:04 am
      This team will win nothing with that defence.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #675: Aug 16, 2017 09:28:58 am
      Didn't get to see the game, but when I saw the side was unchanged from Watford, I'd have snapped your hand off for a draw, let alone a win!  ANY away win in CL is priceless.  How anyone can say they're okay with that midfield trio starting together is beyond me.  Only 2 max can play of those 3 and whilst our options are limited without our 2 creative midfielders, ANYTHING has to be better. 

      Defence is still very jittery and Robertson has to start soon IMO.

      In attack we look good with the pace of the 2 wide players, but need something more from midfield to feed them.  I fear if we were to lose Salah or (more so) Mane to injury.

      However, if we were to land VVD, Robertson proves himself to be a solid LB, Cout stays one more season and Lallana regains fitness, this line-up looks pretty handy to me: -

                       Don't Care

      TAA/Clyne   Matip   VVD   Robertson

            Lallana     Hendo       Cout
       
            Salah      Firmino      Sane

      Doesn't have to be 4 3 3 as such and midfield/attack positions interchangeable.

      Subs - TAA/Clyne, Milner, Gomez, Sturridge, Solanke

      That kind of line-up might see us challenge on a couple of fronts at least?



      Lallana and Cou both in CM is much too lightweight.

      Also Sane plays for City not us  ;)
      skamp
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #676: Aug 16, 2017 09:35:09 am
      Lallana and Cou both in CM is much too lightweight.

      Also Sane plays for City not us  ;)
      As I said, not necessarily CM position-wise.

      And it's early and Salah & Mane combined is Sane (similar player ;D)!
      RobieSlick
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #677: Aug 16, 2017 09:35:18 am
      Lallana and Cou both in CM is much too lightweight.

      Also Sane plays for City not us  ;)

      I don't see why we can't play him for this one match.  ;)
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #678: Aug 16, 2017 09:54:43 am
      An excellent result and a very good performance from us. I think it is a little bit unrealistic to expect to turn up in a European game away from home and completely dominate, which we didn't to be fair, but I thought we kept them at bay and looked good going forward.  It was a great response from the weekends disappointing performance/result against a very good side. This tie isn't over by any means but we have put ourselves in a strong position now. The boys deserve a lot of credit.

      Mignolet. Did so much better last night and made a couple of great stops, including a penalty save. I thought he came out and commanded his box much better. He had 1, maybe 2 nervy moments but we are always going to get that with Simon. He couldn't do anything about their goal either. In general, he played very well and deserves praise.  By the way, if Frankly Mr Shankly is reading this, when have I ever said Mignolet is a great player? I can't find the thread in where you called me out on that. I think Mignolet is crap and always have done but back on topic, he played well last night, so well done.

      TAA - What a player this lad is going to be. 18 years old and he's performing like that in European games, even hitting free kicks from 30 yards out. Very good going forward, always giving us an option on that flank, but his defensive side is improving by the game too. Naturally, he will make mistakes due to inexperience but he is definitely a player for the future and I think he has now edged ahead of clyne in pecking order which is a huge compliment to the lad.

      Matip - I thought he handled the madness of Lovren well and kept our backline relatively calm.

      Lovren - Surely Klavan and Gomez should be ahead of him in pecking order. Surely they can't be any worse?  He is dreadful, all over the place. He is 28 years old now so should have a lot of experience yet he is still diving in to stupid tackles. He is a liability and needs binning.

      Moreno - A typical Moreno performance. Making stupid passes putting the receiving player under pressure, out of position constantly. The only thing missing was a rash tackle to give a penalty away.  Im glad the pundits on BT picked up on him closing their keeper down which ultimately led to the attack with got them a penalty (attacked down our left hand side where Moreno should be) hes just a dope.

      Wijanldum - He goes missing in games away from home and at times is a passenger. It was the same in the first half.  Second half however he grew into the game a lot and got much more involved.

      Henderson - Better performance than he gave on Saturday but still off the pace, wasn't surprised to see him subbed, still injured? It looks like.

      Can - Again, much better performance than he gave on Saturday, played well for most parts I thought.

      Mane - If it wasn't for young TAA scoring a worldie free kick (and playing very well in general) then sadio would have been motm. Constant threat all night and we would be snookered without him.

      Firmino - Struggled to get involved, lack of service perhaps. 

      Salah - Another decent game, hes definitely a threat with his pace and his knowledge of the game being in the right place at the right time so they say. I do think his final ball/shot can improve though.

      Milner- Did well when he came on and a beauty of a goal even if it did take a slight nick. Id have him in my 11 in European games every time.

      Grujic - Only on the pitch for 3 minutes and made a crunching block.  This guy is an absolute unit and ive been impressed whenever ive seen him. He is due a chance soon surely?


      Their manager can f**k off saying 'Klopp has to defend his team and he can't say Hoffenheim were great and we were sh*t'.  I thought (and i can be one of our biggest critics at times) we had the game in full control. Yes they had a few chances, its a bloody European game and they're at home, but we had chances ourselves and should have got more goals to be honest. They gave it a go in the first half, and they can bloody whip a set piece into the box which had me on the edge of my seat biting my nails at times, but the second half they were knackered and it was just a matter of how many goals we were going to get.  I was disappointed to concede so late on, but 2-1 was definitely a fair result so that salty pr**k needs to f**k off.

      Well done reds.




      Beerbelly
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #679: Aug 16, 2017 11:53:17 am
      Just seen the game.

      Well done Reds!

      Cracker from TAA that.

      I'll take conceding one goal with the Benny Hill defence.
      heimdall
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #680: Aug 16, 2017 12:00:22 pm
      Grujic is a red card walking..that foul with 2 minutes left in extra time is probably the reason we don't see him often.

      He'll learn, same as TAA sticking his hand up at the end, play to the whistle lad, ALWAYS!

      that being said they are both 2 very very exciting prospects who I think will feature prominently this season. they'll just get better and better the more minutes they play and they are already very good.
      heimdall
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #681: Aug 16, 2017 12:04:24 pm
      It's been reported on several occasions the Jürgen has issues with his pitch discipline in game and even in practice.

      One example.

      Jürgen Klopp has addressed Marko Grujic‘s knack for producing late challenges, insisting the Liverpool midfielder needed to avoid being “lazy.”


      Grujic was criticised for a strong tackle that left Crystal Palace centre-back James Tomkins injured in May, and then picked up a suspension for two yellow cards at the summer’s European U21 Championship.

      Lining up for the Reds this pre-season, the 21-year-old provoked ire from Palace manager Frank de Boer for a lunge at Wilfried Zaha, with the Dutchman saying it was “not appropriate.”

      Addressing that challenge and Grujic’s questionable approach off the ball, Klopp agreed that this was a flaw in his game.

      “I didn’t see it properly at the time but I heard it could have been a red card,” he told the Liverpool Echo.

      “That’s not good. For Marko, it’s something that he has to change.

      “He’s a fantastic player, a really skilled boy. Tall, quick, talented footballing wise, all good.

      “But in these defensive situations, you always need to be early enough there so you are close enough to make a challenge and not a foul.”

      “It’s about coming too late, switching off the machine, trying to sort a situation in which you were late in mind. I hate that.

      “When that happens you need to run, not foul. Make more steps, go, go, go. For me it’s always a bit lazy.”

      https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/07/Jürgen-klopp-urges-marko-grujic-curb-lazy-defensive-approach/

      ok so its an issue which has been identified and is being worked on, should be easy enough to correct and wow what a player we'll have then, honestly there is so much potential with this lad, he could be right up there in a few years time.
      heimdall
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #682: Aug 16, 2017 12:09:02 pm
      Great result, even with the late goal.  Not an easy qualifying game, as German sides are not easy to play against.

      The more open the game the more chances we will have and it will suit us if they come on to us - we are more susceptible to the break in my opinion.

      Part of our defensive problems stem from the way we try and play on the front foot.

      Interesting or worrying that an 18 year old full back is becoming our dead ball specialist.

      "Interesting or worrying that an 18 year old full back is becoming our dead ball specialist."

      I don't understand why its worrying, was it also worrying when Riise scored those screamers, especially against the mancs, or how about Roberto Carlos back in the day? I don't care who takes our freekicks or how old they are, I'm just glad we finally have someone capable of doing it, because its been a while apart from the occasional beauty from Phil.
      « Last Edit: Aug 16, 2017 12:16:03 pm by heimdall »
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #683: Aug 16, 2017 12:24:23 pm
      What a difference a couple of days make eh? Saturday afternoon and we're all reaching the knives, Tuesday night and we're all back to seeing sunshine and rainbows and how great we are again. Gotta love football!

      On a tricky, difficult, away European tie we've shown (to quote Brendan) character. We wasn't at our best, by any means, but always looked in control after the initial iffy ten or fifteen minutes.

      The problems of last year are still there, mainly down the left hand side of the back four, but we're still looking a threat when we go forward. Obviously, teams don't change that much that quickly so the good and bad of last year is still going to exist for some time yet. Hopefully though, over time, Klopp will be able to address the issues we currently have.

      Mignolet - made some good, important saves. Nothing spectacular but they didn't need to be. They needed to be kept simple and Simple Simon did just that. No parrying it back into danger, no real flapping at crosses but constantly pushing the ball out of danger and collecting the ball with a lot more authority.

      Alexander-Arnold - the lad was F***ing boss. Got beat a couple of times early on and was partly at fault for their goal but grew in confidence as the game went on. A constant threat going forward and very assured at the back. You could see his disappointment when we conceded as well, finally some real F***ing passion from one of our lads. And what a find we've got on our hands where set pieces are concerned. His delivery against Watford was as good as anything in the world and that free kick last night, no keeper in the world was stopping it. Right in the bottom corner. Shows the courage of the lad to step up and take it and all. For me, he's cemented that right back slot as his own.

      Matip - can't really say too much about big Joel's performance last night based on the fact he went about his business in his usual calm way. No outstanding moments and, thankfully, no complete F**k up moments. Just a solid, well done, kind of performance from Matip. A string of those sort of performances is now required.

      Lovren - dear oh dear Dejan, you're gonna cop it from some quarters after that showing mate. Clumsy for the penalty, out of position for the goal and the odd shaky moment in between. But when not looking shaky, looked like a good centre half. And I'm sure there is one in there but he strikes me very much as a confidence player and it takes him a long time to recover from a mistake. On a positive, he was our biggest threat from attacking set pieces, two or three times he won the header in their box for a shot on goal. If only he could be that commanding when we're defending them.

      Moreno - I said it against Watford that this lad shouldn't be our first choice left back and last night only strengthened my belief in that. Continuously out of position and his attacking play doesn't make up for it because he very rarely finds his target with his crosses. Klopp either needs to return to Milner, give Robertson a go or say to Clyne you're now a left back because Arnie is on the right. Any of those three solutions to resolve the Moreno problem.

      Henderson - slightly better than Watford but only slightly. And that's probably with the rose tinted specs because of the result. If we'd failed to see last night through, then Henderson, Wijnaldum and Can would all be coming for a lot more criticism than they are. Because we've won, then they've suddenly upped their game a bit. I've no problem with Henderson constantly playing the safe pass if it keeps the ball ticking over but when he's partnered with the Dutchman and German then he has to take responsibility and be the creative player, he hasn't done so far. His fitness is looking way down. The one thing he always had for him was his ability to get around the pitch, that hasn't been there this year. Given the amount of time he's been out though, that is somewhat understandable.

      Wijnaldum - like Henderson, the result is clouding my reflection of his performance a bit. He was better than he was against Watford. Made a few more of those ghost runs that he was making last year. Linked the play up a bit better and helped us control the game for the most part. But, he too has to show more responsibility in the middle of the park. Attempt to make a few more telling passes. Don't just always shift the blame onto somebody else.

      Can - and the third wheel of the midfield tricycle. His form this time last year was that of somebody I never wanted to see in a Liverpool shirt again. And he appeared to be going in the opposite direction to the rest of the side. When we were flying, he was sinking and when the team's form sunk, his personal form rose. Twelve months on and he's been the best of the three central midfielders so far. Needs to be more of a threat both in terms of attacking but also as a physical threat. He's a big F***ing tank, use that to our advantage. He's another who would benefit greatly from having a creative player beside him because he too is only too happy to play the safe option and give responsibility to somebody else.

      Salah - is going to be a very frustrating player for me. I can see it already. He's got all the talent but hasn't got the composure. Against Watford and again last night he had golden opportunities to score and wasted them. His goal record for Roma might show he knows where the net is but his performances in the games that have mattered in a Liverpool shirt, have shown he lacks that killer instinct. Maybe, it's nerves of his first couple of games for the biggest club in the world and after settling in he'll be alright but for now, it looks like he's gonna frustrate the F**k out of me.

      Firmino - he's one who already frustrates the F**k out of me. Was largely anonymous last night and despite the odd good touch here and there was rather sloppy with the ball. Can't recall him having too many chances either, which isn't a good sign for our main forward. I still don't think he's good enough to be leading the line but it's what Klopp wants so just gotta accept it basically.

      Mane - was a constant threat to their defence and you could tell they wanted to be as close as they possibly could to him at all times. His performance deserved a goal and he looks like he's just picked up from last year with no worries about the injury that ruled him out for the last few games. Right or left flank doesn't seem to bother him either, comfortable on either and a threat on both. Had Arnie not had the game he did, Sadio would be walking away with another Man of the Match award.

      Milner - came on and did basically what the other central midfielders did, played it nice and safe. He got a goal, albeit a deflected one, though. Taking up a few more attacking positions than the others and getting us moving forward. A solid enough performance from the elder statesman.

      Solanke - at least he got a run out this time and ahead of Origi which is another big plus. Didn't really have much time to do anything of note but hopefully this run out is a precursor for the rest of the season, in that Solanke is ahead of Origi in the pecking order and will get more game time as the year goes on.

      Grujic - he's the most different of our central midfielders in that he has that bit of bite about them. I said it about Mane after the Watford game that maybe what we need is a few more players with a nasty side and I think Grujic has that. Yeah it'll get him into a bit trouble here and there but it'll also give opposition sides a bit of concern that we're not a bunch of pushovers. I've high hopes for this lad.

      Overall, an away victory in Europe is always welcome. Takes the pressure off, slightly, for the return leg at Anfield. Gives us the cushion we wanted. And while we're still not at full speed yet, picking up these sort of victories can only help building our confidence back up. We should see the tie through at Anfield and take our rightful place among Europe's elite again.

      Well done Reds.
      Eddieo
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #684: Aug 16, 2017 01:50:57 pm
      Great result
      Robby The Z
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #685: Aug 16, 2017 03:27:35 pm
      So Hoffenheim have to score a minimum of 2 goals at Anfield.

      Surely that takes the pressure off a bit and gives the boys an opportunity to play some proper football.

      Can't wait.

      Me neither. One of the best things about being in Europe is we don't have to wait 7-9 days for the next match, but 3-4. So much better.

      We are in strong position, but as I mentioned elsewhere, the way this team is set up now, no lead is safe, for the opposition or for us. Keep the Nitro pills handy, all of your in the over-40 crowd.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #686: Aug 16, 2017 03:38:26 pm
      One thing I would add about yesterday, while I was glad to see Solanke and Grujic get on (because both were good in preseason), can Jürgen stop the putting guys on for three minutes or six minutes. Unless it's one of those, put on a tall boy to try and win a late header, or purely for time-wasting, could he at least get a sub on by the 80th minute, if not earlier. It was our 2nd game in four days, I'm sure a few players could have done with an earlier rest.

      I understand then, saving a sub in case of a late injury, but if you want a sub to have an impact, it's probably reasonable to expect at least 10 minutes plus stoppage.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #687: Aug 16, 2017 03:49:42 pm
      I think James Milner warrants a special mention. Some people don't rate him but I genuinely think he adds real value.

      As soon as he came on it felt like some energy was pumped into the team. He got forward and chased down everything. He might not be the most gracious of football players but he's intelligent and can handle the pressure.

      I bet Klopp loves having him as a player because he will do a job anywhere on the pitch
      heimdall
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #688: Aug 16, 2017 04:36:19 pm
      One thing I would add about yesterday, while I was glad to see Solanke and Grujic get on (because both were good in preseason), can Jürgen stop the putting guys on for three minutes or six minutes. Unless it's one of those, put on a tall boy to try and win a late header, or purely for time-wasting, could he at least get a sub on by the 80th minute, if not earlier. It was our 2nd game in four days, I'm sure a few players could have done with an earlier rest.

      I understand then, saving a sub in case of a late injury, but if you want a sub to have an impact, it's probably reasonable to expect at least 10 minutes plus stoppage.


      ordinarily I'd agree but this game was to important to start chopping and changing early
      billythered
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      Re: 1899 Hoffenheim 1-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #689: Aug 16, 2017 04:39:35 pm
      The thing about the pen save that was most impressive to me was how Migs read the player.

      It seems more and more that pk takers try to be clever and get the keeper to move.  Then they go center.

      Migs gave a slight move to the left to sucker him in and then stayed put.  It was a very nice play by him.

      If we had gone down 1-0 at that point it would have been very difficult to come back from.

      TAA would have gotten my MOTM vote had it not been for his fault in the goal conceded.

      Brilliant performance from him all around except for something you learn as a schoolboy.   

      Play to the whistle.




      A bit harsh on a 18 yr old European debutant who erred on one occasion, who played as tho he was 28 not 18 and if we're all honest put many of our more experienced operators to shame,

      Get off yer high horse fella and give him the credit he thoroughly deserves, that kid was once again imo motm, 2 on the bounce , he was superb!


      YNWA

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