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      North Korea

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      FATKOPITE10
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      HUYTON RED
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #26: Sep 05, 2017 05:38:06 pm
      Ribapuru
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #27: Sep 05, 2017 06:56:25 pm
      I think people are a bit harsh on China. They can't really control North Korea, it is not a part of China. I think the real reason China and Russia don't want to keep sanctioning North Korea is because it could push North Korea over the edge, what would North Korea do with a destroyed economy and a starving population when all they have left are Nuclear Weapons? It is not what China wants on it's doorstep, which is why they keep asking for calm. I don't think there is an easy answer for this. I don't think people properly understand what North Korea even want.
      « Last Edit: Sep 06, 2017 01:21:05 am by Ribapuru »
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #28: Sep 06, 2017 12:10:57 am
      zz19a
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      RedWilly
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #30: Sep 06, 2017 02:15:20 am
      I'm just glad I'm not f**king North Korean. Only way this ends is with that whole country being wiped out becaus Trump seems to see it as a dick swinging contest and is itching to get a war off the ground imo.

      But if that happens I don't think NK will see nukes as a last resort, I think it's the first thing they will go to. KJM is a complete fruit loop of Trump proportions.

      And that's not even mentioning how China and Russia would react, you'd have them at loggerheads with the US over it.

      Just hope to f**k we win the league in my lifetime before they vaporise us all!!!
      SM
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #31: Sep 06, 2017 08:46:19 am
      I'm just glad I'm not f**king North Korean. Only way this ends is with that whole country being wiped out becaus Trump seems to see it as a dick swinging contest and is itching to get a war off the ground imo.

      But if that happens I don't think NK will see nukes as a last resort, I think it's the first thing they will go to. KJM is a complete fruit loop of Trump proportions.

      And that's not even mentioning how China and Russia would react, you'd have them at loggerheads with the US over it.

      Just hope to f**k we win the league in my lifetime before they vaporise us all!!!

      Relax Wills......if we all release our nukes then aliens will swoop down, stop time and vaporise all the nukes then the lizards will rule over us.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #32: Sep 06, 2017 09:02:00 am
      If any war happens, I imagine it will be a UN decision, not a Trump one.

      I feel for the North Koreans, living under an oppressive dictatorship and their suffering could become so much worse if War was to break out.

      With technology today they could take Kim out without reigning bombs down on his people and that is how it should be done if they decide to act, but it won't be, War is license to print money and pockets need to be lined.
      heimdall
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #33: Sep 06, 2017 10:10:56 am
      There is a solution here.

      Cut off all world trade to North Korea and in parallel destroy their nuclear test facilities.

      Monitor all their activity going forward with regards nuclear weapons testing.

      Do not lift sanctions again until it is evident all of their nuclear development has ceased.

      That should wipe the smile off that fat f**king freaks face.

      And how exactly would you do that, NK is already under complete trade embargo from everyone in the world EXCEPT Russia and China.
      and how do you propose we take out their nuclear facilities without them noticing or retaliating?

      No the only solution is either conventional war which would not last long but would involve a massive loss of life or somehow enact a regime change, probably through assassination and hope it would lead to a revolution in the country with people finally rising up.
      Shabs
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #34: Sep 06, 2017 10:17:55 am
      Can't believe some are happy to go to war just for regime change, the wars in the Middle East have taught you f**k all I guess..

      Pack your webbing,boots & rifle & off you go...
      heimdall
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #35: Sep 06, 2017 10:22:06 am
      Can't believe some are happy to go to war just for regime change, the wars in the Middle East have taught you f**k all I guess..

      Pack your webbing,boots & rifle & off you go...

      Should we just wait for Kim to perfect his missiles and fire them at us then, because you just know that crazy b***ard will do it sooner or later whilst his people starve to death.
      War is never glorious, always carries a heavy price and it should be the last option but what other options are available at the moment, diplomacy has been tried and has completely failed in the case of NK?
      Shabs
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #36: Sep 06, 2017 10:32:01 am
      Should we just wait for Kim to perfect his missiles and fire them at us then, because you just know that crazy b***ard will do it sooner or later whilst his people starve to death.
      War is never glorious, always carries a heavy price and it should be the last option but what other options are available at the moment, diplomacy has been tried and has completely failed in the case of NK?

      If he wanted to fire at Guam he would have done so by now & I don't believe he has the capability to hit the USA/UK or Europe, if he has what does it say about our much spoken sophisticated capabilities of defence, he fires a missile we could just shoot it out the sky, or is that far to easy.

      Calling for death & destruction from the comfort of our armchairs of another people is fine if you are willing to participate by enlisting & lead by example.
      Kopite78
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #37: Sep 06, 2017 10:36:35 am
      , he fires a missile we could just shoot it out the sky, or is that far to easy.



      We just accept people firing nuclear warheads at us and we just shoot them down and go about our daily lives?
      And you don't think by blowing it up mid flight wouldn't still send the contents of that missile into the atmosphere?

      I'm personally not for war at all, I think talking diplomatically around a table is the best option. But it doesn't seem to be on anyone's agenda that.

      Shabs
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #38: Sep 06, 2017 10:51:27 am
      We just accept people firing nuclear warheads at us and we just shoot them down and go about our daily lives?
      And you don't think by blowing it up mid flight wouldn't still send the contents of that missile into the atmosphere?

      I'm personally not for war at all, I think talking diplomatically around a table is the best option. But it doesn't seem to be on anyone's agenda that.



      Taking out a missile in the sky would reduce the high numbers of collateral damage on the ground & by collateral damage I mean loss of civilian life, should the North Koreans live under a constant threat of invasion & sanctions?..

      They want peace as much as us


      The Need for US-North Korea Peace Talks: Jimmy Carter. “They Want a Peace Treaty to Replace the [1953] Ceasefire”


      Statement From Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter on Current U.S.-North Korea Relations




      The harsh rhetoric from Washington and Pyongyang during recent months has exacerbated an already confrontational relationship between our countries, and has probably eliminated any chance of good faith peace talks between the United States and North Korea. In addition to restraining the warlike rhetoric, our leaders need to encourage talks between North Korea and other countries, especially China and Russia.

      The recent UN Security Council unanimous vote for new sanctions suggests that these countries could help.  In all cases, a nuclear exchange must be avoided. All parties must assure North Koreans they we will forego any military action against them if North Korea remains peaceful.

      I have visited North Korea three times, and have spent more than 20 hours in discussions with their political leaders regarding important issues that affect U.S.-DPRK relations.

      In June 1994, I met with Kim Il Sung in a time of crisis, when he agreed to put all their nuclear programs under strict supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency and to seek mutual agreement with the United States on a permanent peace treaty, to have summit talks with the president of South Korea, to expedite the recovery of the remains of American service personnel buried in his country, and to take other steps to ease tension on the peninsula. Kim Il Sung died shortly after my visit, and his successor, Kim Jong Il, notified me and leaders in Washington that he would honor the promises made by his father. These obligations were later confirmed officially in negotiations in Geneva by Robert Gallucci and other representatives of the Clinton administration.

      I returned to Pyongyang in August 2010, at the invitation of North Korean leaders, to bring home Aijalon Gomes, an American who had been detained there. My last visit to North Korea was in May 2011 when I led a delegation of Elders (former presidents of Ireland and Finland and former prime minister of Norway) to assure the delivery of donated food directly to needy people.

      During all these visits, the North Koreans emphasized that they wanted peaceful relations with the United States and their neighbors, but were convinced that we planned a preemptive military strike against their country. They wanted a peace treaty (especially with America) to replace the ceasefire agreement that had existed since the end of the Korean War in 1953, and to end the economic sanctions that had been very damaging to them during that long interim period. They have made it clear to me and others that their first priority is to assure that their military capability is capable of destroying a large part of Seoul and of responding strongly in other ways to any American attack. The influence of China in Pyongyang seems to be greatly reduced since Kim Jong Un became the North Korean leader in December 2011.

      A commitment to peace by the United States and North Korea is crucial.

      When this confrontational crisis is ended, the United States should be prepared to consummate a permanent treaty to replace the ceasefire of 1953. The United States should make this clear, to North Koreans and to our allies.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-need-for-us-north-korea-peace-talks-jimmy-carter-they-want-a-peace-treaty-to-replace-the-1953-ceasefire/5607579?platform=hootsuite

      heimdall
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #39: Sep 06, 2017 10:57:53 am
      We just accept people firing nuclear warheads at us and we just shoot them down and go about our daily lives?
      And you don't think by blowing it up mid flight wouldn't still send the contents of that missile into the atmosphere?

      I'm personally not for war at all, I think talking diplomatically around a table is the best option. But it doesn't seem to be on anyone's agenda that.



      Diplomacy has been on everyone's agenda since the ceasefire but has achieved nothing apart from the family Kim growing stronger and stronger whilst its people starve to death, can we really allow that to happen, is it moral of us? Irrespective of allowing the people of NK to suffer we have the issue that NK is now presenting a clear and present danger to the rest of the world, its not just the fact that they have nukes that is so alarming its the fact that the country is run on the whim of a mad egomaniac with a God complex, and yes tee hee hee what about Trump and Putin but you all know that there are checks and balances in place in both those countries.
      heimdall
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #40: Sep 06, 2017 11:01:14 am
      Taking out a missile in the sky would reduce the high numbers of collateral damage on the ground & by collateral damage I mean loss of civilian life, should the North Koreans live under a constant threat of invasion & sanctions?..

      They want peace as much as us


      The Need for US-North Korea Peace Talks: Jimmy Carter. “They Want a Peace Treaty to Replace the [1953] Ceasefire”


      Statement From Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter on Current U.S.-North Korea Relations




      The harsh rhetoric from Washington and Pyongyang during recent months has exacerbated an already confrontational relationship between our countries, and has probably eliminated any chance of good faith peace talks between the United States and North Korea. In addition to restraining the warlike rhetoric, our leaders need to encourage talks between North Korea and other countries, especially China and Russia.

      The recent UN Security Council unanimous vote for new sanctions suggests that these countries could help.  In all cases, a nuclear exchange must be avoided. All parties must assure North Koreans they we will forego any military action against them if North Korea remains peaceful.

      I have visited North Korea three times, and have spent more than 20 hours in discussions with their political leaders regarding important issues that affect U.S.-DPRK relations.

      In June 1994, I met with Kim Il Sung in a time of crisis, when he agreed to put all their nuclear programs under strict supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency and to seek mutual agreement with the United States on a permanent peace treaty, to have summit talks with the president of South Korea, to expedite the recovery of the remains of American service personnel buried in his country, and to take other steps to ease tension on the peninsula. Kim Il Sung died shortly after my visit, and his successor, Kim Jong Il, notified me and leaders in Washington that he would honor the promises made by his father. These obligations were later confirmed officially in negotiations in Geneva by Robert Gallucci and other representatives of the Clinton administration.

      I returned to Pyongyang in August 2010, at the invitation of North Korean leaders, to bring home Aijalon Gomes, an American who had been detained there. My last visit to North Korea was in May 2011 when I led a delegation of Elders (former presidents of Ireland and Finland and former prime minister of Norway) to assure the delivery of donated food directly to needy people.

      During all these visits, the North Koreans emphasized that they wanted peaceful relations with the United States and their neighbors, but were convinced that we planned a preemptive military strike against their country. They wanted a peace treaty (especially with America) to replace the ceasefire agreement that had existed since the end of the Korean War in 1953, and to end the economic sanctions that had been very damaging to them during that long interim period. They have made it clear to me and others that their first priority is to assure that their military capability is capable of destroying a large part of Seoul and of responding strongly in other ways to any American attack. The influence of China in Pyongyang seems to be greatly reduced since Kim Jong Un became the North Korean leader in December 2011.

      A commitment to peace by the United States and North Korea is crucial.

      When this confrontational crisis is ended, the United States should be prepared to consummate a permanent treaty to replace the ceasefire of 1953. The United States should make this clear, to North Koreans and to our allies.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-need-for-us-north-korea-peace-talks-jimmy-carter-they-want-a-peace-treaty-to-replace-the-1953-ceasefire/5607579?platform=hootsuite


      Well its a damned funny way to be working towards a peace treaty, building up a nuclear arsenal and coming out with inflammatory rhetoric on a daily basis.
      If they genuinely want peace then all they need to do is stop their nuclear programme immediately, hold free elections and open their borders, but that might not suit the family Kim.
      Shabs
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #41: Sep 06, 2017 11:16:27 am
      Well its a damned funny way to be working towards a peace treaty, building up a nuclear arsenal and coming out with inflammatory rhetoric on a daily basis.
      If they genuinely want peace then all they need to do is stop their nuclear programme immediately, hold free elections and open their borders, but that might not suit the family Kim.

      The USA/Trump have a nuclear arsenal, USA/Trump have used inflammatory rhetoric & USA/Trump are closing their borders, bit hypocritical asking Kim to do what the USA won't..no?.
      heimdall
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #42: Sep 06, 2017 04:37:18 pm
      The USA/Trump have a nuclear arsenal, USA/Trump have used inflammatory rhetoric & USA/Trump are closing their borders, bit hypocritical asking Kim to do what the USA won't..no?.

      ?? Erm what, I thought I could just jump on a plane and fly to the United States, when did they close their borders??
      BTW there is quite a big difference between developing your nuclear programme in the 1950's and 2010's, if you can't see that then there's no point carrying on this discussion.
      Swab
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #43: Sep 06, 2017 06:35:57 pm
      We just accept people firing nuclear warheads at us and we just shoot them down and go about our daily lives?
      And you don't think by blowing it up mid flight wouldn't still send the contents of that missile into the atmosphere?

      I'm personally not for war at all, I think talking diplomatically around a table is the best option. But it doesn't seem to be on anyone's agenda that.

      Doesn't really work like that mate.
      There's a very precise chain of reactions needed to set off a nuclear warhead.
      If a nuclear missile was shot down by a conventional missile, it'd just result in a downed missile, and a missing warhead.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #44: Sep 06, 2017 07:18:04 pm
      I think people need to be concerned that North Korea are triggering earthquakes with their testing. It must be making some shockwaves through the planet. I'm not cool with that. How do we know what damage is being done.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #45: Sep 06, 2017 09:03:27 pm
      I think people need to be concerned that North Korea are triggering earthquakes with their testing. It must be making some shockwaves through the planet. I'm not cool with that. How do we know what damage is being done.



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      bmck
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #46: Sep 06, 2017 09:41:01 pm
      You know not to get into a war of words with an unhinged person, cause they'll drag the situation down to their level, and invariably call any of your bluffs.
      Don't think the US know all of what Kim's got hidden underground, and where, so can't really preempt. Tho Kim might be crazy enough to do something that 'forces' the US to retaliate, then you might regret not taking him out early.
      Sanctions don't work, Kim couldn't give a sh*t if the population starves.  Or is blown up.
      So what's left - politics?  Trump doesn't know the first thing about that. He is the opposite of a politician.
      Assassination?
      It's not a good situation, don't think anyone knows how to resolve, cause can't deal rationally with someone who isn't rational. It's not often Trump seems the less crazy one. Almost never.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #47: Sep 06, 2017 10:38:15 pm
      If any war happens, I imagine it will be a UN decision, not a Trump one.

      I feel for the North Koreans, living under an oppressive dictatorship and their suffering could become so much worse if War was to break out.

      With technology today they could take Kim out without reigning bombs down on his people and that is how it should be done if they decide to act, but it won't be, War is license to print money and pockets need to be lined.

      The UN making a decision?! My you have high hopes for them Daz!
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #48: Sep 07, 2017 02:23:52 pm
      and they believe that. The NK people have been systematically and intellectually fed targeted propaganda where the people truly believe that they are not only the most powerful nation on Earth but, the most loved. The propaganda has told them that the Kim dynasty is the most loved political family in the World. They believe, 100% that the US started the Korean war and that Kim Il Song personally pushed the US army into the sea and that we surrendered.
      Some of the Youtube docs on NK are amazing. If it wasnt so scary,  it would be a joke. They have no Navy. The Subs are WW2 era. The Air Force is made up of a handful of 70s era Migs and 50s era trainers. The only semi modern arms are the artillery pieces and some Russian abd Chinese air defense systems like SAMs and Radar. Their best weapon is litterally the number of soldiers they will throw into the defense. They will send waves of men and women armed with rifles and grenades against mechanized cavalry.  Not to mention that the US forces are made up of hardcore, battle hardened divisions who have been fighting in open warfare, urban warfare against some of the hardest enemy troops around. The NK military have not seen any warfare since 1956. I would put a single Marine platoon from Afghanistan against any NK division.
      -LFC-
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      Re: North Korea
      Reply #49: Sep 07, 2017 02:46:52 pm
      My concerns are:

      1) The damage that could be done by the hundreds of artillery units NK have stationed along the border, 35 miles from Seoul.

      2) The massive numbers of their population enlisted in the army.

      3) The nuclear threat, regardless of whether it can successfully be put on an ICBM.

      Why wouldn't they just go all f*cking out with everything they've got if they're going to be destroyed anyway?

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