Manchester City 5-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

I agree with your view that he was surely reckless, but did not use excessive force.

However, the rules also specify what "serious foul play" is, saying that "any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play". I'd find it hard to argue that Mané did not lunge at the opponent endangering his safety, so he was probably guilty of serious foul play and that is indeed a sending off offence.

The rules can be confusing as f**k and I don't understand how anyone can want to be a referee. In any case, even if one disagrees with the decision, it's clear that the ref can refer to the rulebook to back it up, and so it's kinda pointless to blame it on him. Mané should've known better

But that's my point. He didn't lunge. He raised his foot to take the ball down, a natural part of outfield play. What caused the incident was the Keeper charging so far out of his area. It wasn't just outside, it was miles outside. Would Mane have been sent off if that had been an outfield player? No, because it was a 50/50 ball he was entitled to play for. He was punished not for the offence but for the injury which is not how you're supposed to govern the game.

You forgot Brendan's swansong v Stoke.

Wasn't quite his swansong but probably should have been.

Looking forward to a red card being given to the next player trying an overhead kick, sorry don't see mane's challenge  as reckless or excessive

But that's my point. He didn't lunge. He raised his foot to take the ball down, a natural part of outfield play. What caused the incident was the Keeper charging so far out of his area. It wasn't just outside, it was miles outside. Would Mane have been sent off if that had been an outfield player? No, because it was a 50/50 ball he was entitled to play for. He was punished not for the offence but for the injury which is not how you're supposed to govern the game.

I hate Moss but i can inderstand h sending of Mane what i cant forgive if you watch it again the keeper is hurt and first thin Moss should do is get the trainer on not get an erection on before reaching for the red card

Anyway, let's not let the Mane incident overshadow the real problem of losing 5-0.

No character, no fight, no desire, and to be candid, no tactical awareness either

True.

It was appalling all over the pitch, and on the sidelines too. Klopp did nothing to get a win today.

How can a loss of one outfield player enable the opposing team to score 4 goals without reply? It is a disgrace. It's not even a key defender or midfielder. It is an attacking player - so how can we concede 4 goals??! We were completely overrun, and distinctly lazy. The international break has hit us, as our players simply couldn't be bothered.

Can was useless. Firmino was pointless. Mane reckless. Henderson slow. Gini anonymous. Salah fruitless. On and on, throughout the team. Not one player can say they put in a shift.

Even before the red. Even before the goal. It was plain to see that we were not at the races. We were slow. Wasteful. Sloppy. Their goal summed up our game at the time. It was fair, and not against the run of play.

I know some like to sugar coat rubbish performances like this, but I'm not taking any of that with a 5-0 loss. It's a disgrace.

But that's my point. He didn't lunge. He raised his foot to take the ball down, a natural part of outfield play. What caused the incident was the Keeper charging so far out of his area. It wasn't just outside, it was miles outside. Would Mane have been sent off if that had been an outfield player? No, because it was a 50/50 ball he was entitled to play for. He was punished not for the offence but for the injury which is not how you're supposed to govern the game.

Agree mate, reckless is a caution. He was not using excessive force nor was it serious foul play. Law 12 - "reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned". It does not say sent from the filed of play.

Maybe Ox is the problem. First 4-0 last week and now 5-0 this week. He's bad luck.

Either way hope Keita and VVD weren't watching that shower today. 

So, what did I see in this game after the sending off of Mane? Boys in all of them. The sending off of Mane is an acid test to what the character of the players are all about. No fighting spirit, no desire to keep the score down or trying to score, we just gave up. There's no rule in the game to say we have to loose with 10 players. Hendo, continue to be our captain, god bless us, don't expect any fight back anytime under such circumstances. I'm sorry, I never rated him since the first day he joined the club. We truly need someone that speaks louder and shout louder beside hendo to provide the drive, if he retains the armband. 

I'm sorry if this has already been written. What else did I see in this game, City's passes were crisp and decisive, they know exactly which way to go to hit us. We were the total opposite, in the final third we were in total disarray, everything was done at random, Salah got the ball into the box and no one fast enough or willing enough to run into space from midfield to score and support. Firminho was no where to be seen.  I'm sorry Klopp, you have missed that out in training and you continue to get that wrong. Firminho, well, he better start to be a smart player, don't ball watch and follow Mane and Salah everytime just bloody run into empty pockets in the box and make yourself visible so that Mane and Salah could make the final pass.

How many times Salah has breached the City's defence and they got off the hook everytime, this is embarassing,  as there was no one running from the midfield to connect to the final pass and I'm dissapointed that Klopp being a world class manager did not see that. I'm no Klopp, but I believe I saw the same thing as Klopp did, they kept attactking TAA time and again, even a novice coach like me saw that. Then, jolly well, put Can, Hendo or Wijnaldum to shield TAA. Perhaps he did that, but the three were strolling instead of putting in the hard tackles to distrupt City's movement.

City's game plan is easy, stop our free flowing game and stuff us in our final third. What did we do? We still took ages and dilly dally to get the ball out of our half and played right into City's hands. I'm sure City will use the same game plan against us again. 

Wijnaldum, how long more we have to endure him? Missing in most games and suddenly turned up and score and everything fine after that. We might as well play with only 10 players. 

Someone posted earlier that once we'd lost our best player (the best available anyway) we lost our way, and they were right. Mane has that little bit of devil in him that too many of the others lack, and just like last season when he went off to the AFCON we looked lost without him. 

Quote from heimdall on Today at 04:32:33 pm
For us it was a bad day against a very good team and when we lost Mane we completely lost our confidence and shape.

Agreed, not a point touched on enough yet in my opinion.

Are we a bunch of wimps that are easily intimidated by both the way things unfold and aggressive opponents, in the middle of the park and in between the sticks this is an over-riding problem that has been with us and will remain with us as long as these same players continue to be selected. Spit in the face of adversity, a bit more of "bring it on bi*ch!" attitude, I'd love to see it from us.

Well said and the fact of the matter is as such. Everyone is waiting for the next guy to provide the drive, including Hendo. As I have mentioned earlier on, we don't have the spine of the team as in our successful years in the likes of Clemence, Tommy Smith/Carra, Souness/Stevie and Rush-Dalglish. I'm so frustrated now that if I'm Klopp I may opt to get Costa on loan, if he is still available. Yes, Costa is a bi**ch but he strikes fear into the opponents, to show the softies that we have now how it is done. 

Someone posted earlier that once we'd lost our best player (the best available anyway) we lost our way, and they were right. Mane has that little bit of devil in him that too many of the others lack, and just like last season when he went off to the AFCON we looked lost without him. 

Not enough leaders in the team. (Practically none)

Not enough leaders in the team. (Practically none)

We needed a leader in the keeper, defence and attack. each in their very own sub-depts and Klopp most probably hasn't realise that yet.

We were one man down without a fast central defender...

It was a bad day at the office. No need tearing the team down over this loss.

We will bounce back next week.

We leak in 3 goals against sh*t Walford team 5 now against city 3 against Germany team that shocking

We will bounce back, win some , lose some. Point is, we won't win anything with a defence like this.

It was begrudgingly a red card.

When I first saw the foul in real time from the TV angle I couldn't believe the ref showed him a red.

When I saw the foul from the refs position, I could see why it was given.

The ref didn't get to see Mane's eyes, he had to go on what he saw in that split second. I can't argue with that.

Generally, in England refs let you play your feet higher than the waist than they do on the continent.

Had Mane have toe-poked the ball first the decision to challenge would have been legitimate, on the continent it still may have entailed a free kick to the oppo.

Mane was unlucky that he got there a fraction of a second late and subsequently studded him in the face.

What's worse is we've got to make do without our best player for three games now.

Weirdly enough I'm not as upset about this as I was about the Watford game.
Could have been a very different game had we been more clinical with our final passes in the first half. We were pretty dominating before they got their goal.
Quite disappointed the players seemed to give up after Mane got sent off though, some of them likely thought this one's a goner and started thinking about Sevilla instead. You don't see teams like Chelsea, United, or Spurs conceding four even when they're down to 10 men.

Anyway, bring on Sevilla! I expect a strong reaction from the lads.

I want to say one thing.  We have a dreadful defence which starts with the goalie and the two people in front of him.  And defensive security in midfield.  But that said we have a very good attack which I won't swap for a good defence.   I'd rather have an excellent attack and a weak defence than the other way round.  Mane will be out.  I want to see if we have move forward from last season where we couldn't digest missing one of our attacking players.   It is early so it will be interesting how we react.

We were one man down without a fast central defender...

It was a bad day at the office. No need tearing the team down over this loss.

We will bounce back next week.

We all pretty much predicted this kind of sh*t though. Our defence is god awful. Look at the lower teams, Stoke, Palace, Burnley they all do the basics right when it comes to defending, hell I am not even going to get started on our goalkeeper situation.

The fact that we didnt address the glaring concerns in our defence by simply looking at one defender, and signing a young full back who will be used sparingly, shows  that we have severe limitations when it comes to either scouting players, or buying them.

This is the first of many bad days, the thing thats pissing us off the most is we know it can get worse, and it bloody will.

I thought we were pretty even before the sending off, even though we passed up a couple of early chances to go ahead. Once Mane went off, we seemed to lose our heads. The midfield and defence were so easy to lay through, I don't think either of their goals looked a direct result of us being a man down. Just poor positioning, poor Pressing and poor tracking.  Misstimed tackles and cover for each other defensively was as poor as I've seen.
All that said, were only 3 points off top, so time to rectify things, but that defence has to shape up or we are fu**ed.
Not voting motm because I don't think anyone performed like they deserved it.
We are gonna need to improve 100% mid week or things are gonna get really really tough.

I want to say one thing.  We have a dreadful defence which starts with the goalie and the two people in front of him.  And defensive security in midfield.  But that said we have a very good attack which I won't swap for a good defence.   I'd rather have an excellent attack and a weak defence than the other way round.  Mane will be out.  I want to see if we have move forward from last season where we couldn't digest missing one of our attacking players.   It is early so it will be interesting how we react.

So if we lose a game 4-3 thats ok, because we scored 3?

We have to be scouting the world for a centre half for January.  If we get past the group stages we could get embarrassed again when we come up against one of the best sides in Europe.   We should be looking at bringing in one at least in January and then another in Summer. 

I thought we were pretty even before the sending off, even though we passed up a couple of early chances to go ahead. Once Mane went off, we seemed to lose our heads. The midfield and defence were so easy to lay through, I don't think either of their goals looked a direct result of us being a man down. Just poor positioning, poor Pressing and poor tracking.  Misstimed tackles and cover for each other defensively was as poor as I've seen.
All that said, were only 3 points off top, so time to rectify things, but that defence has to shape up or we are fu**ed.
Not voting motm because I don't think anyone performed like they deserved it.
We are gonna need to improve 100% mid week or things are gonna get really really tough.

Good post.
Hated this match, but are we suddenly a bad team? of course not.
Hoping Salah begins finishing his 1v1s better as his pace and our play gets him many of these.
I suppose Ox, Sturridge, Solanke and Woodburn could all play a role in filling in for Mane these next three matches. Klopp had promised rotation so it may be that Bobby and Mo sit out somehwere during these matches as well.

Midfield needs to do much better Wedesday.

Oh, and Phil may be back in the squad as well. It would be nice to get the taste of this out with a good European performance.