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      Liverpool to appeal Mane ban

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      JD
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      Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      : Sep 11, 2017 09:19:45 pm »
      Liverpool decided before 5pm today to appeal the automatic 3 match ban for Mane's red card.

      The red card can't be overturned so he definitely misses the Burnley game.  I'd imagine he probably would have sat out the League Cup game anyway so hopefully if it can be reduced then he could be back for the second game against Leicester in the league.

      That Newcastle yellow card yesterday (and the one again tonight in the Huddersfield game) should be more than enough for Liverpool to have a case in my view.



      If it doesn't get reduced then I'd imagine we will have a season of loads of these incidents having to get punished with red cards so I'm quite hopeful.

      What do you reckon?
      Kopite78
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #1 : Sep 11, 2017 09:24:04 pm »
      I can't see them going against the original call personally, as much as I think that it's a yellow in the first place.

      I think they'll uphold the decision.

      Hope they don't consider it frivolous and increase it 😐
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #2 : Sep 11, 2017 09:26:18 pm »
      Liverpool decided before 5pm today to appeal the automatic 3 match ban for Mane's red card.

      The red card can't be overturned so he definitely misses the Burnley game.  I'd imagine he probably would have sat out the League Cup game anyway so hopefully if it can be reduced then he could be back for the second game against Leicester in the league.

      That Newcastle yellow card yesterday (and the one again tonight in the Huddersfield game) should be more than enough for Liverpool to have a case in my view.



      If it doesn't get reduced then I'd imagine we will have a season of loads of these incidents having to get punished with red cards so I'm quite hopeful.

      What do you reckon?

      Think it'll definitely get reduced due to the fact that even the likes of Clattenburg were calling it only a yellow. The opinion is still extremely split and rests around 50/50 on whether it was a yellow or red, that to me is the perfect type of thing to appeal.

      As you say the last couple of days have thrown up 2 incidents that make their refs look completely incompetent when it comes to consistency. Whether it was justified as a red or not they've really got to decide if they want to call 2 of their refs wrong or just 1 and as you say with the ruling on this, if it upholds the 3 matches, could result in a lot of red cards.

      I still think it was a red, but the evidence that's since been put forward makes me think there's little chance they can maintain the 3 match ban, which of course means it's nailed on to be 3 matches.
      moonunderthewater
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #3 : Sep 11, 2017 09:26:37 pm »
      Liverpool decided before 5pm today to appeal the automatic 3 match ban for Mane's red card.

      The red card can't be overturned so he definitely misses the Burnley game.  I'd imagine he probably would have sat out the League Cup game anyway so hopefully if it can be reduced then he could be back for the second game against Leicester in the league.

      That Newcastle yellow card yesterday (and the one again tonight in the Huddersfield game) should be more than enough for Liverpool to have a case in my view.



      If it doesn't get reduced then I'd imagine we will have a season of loads of these incidents having to get punished with red cards so I'm quite hopeful.

      What do you reckon?

      Better be careful here. Is there a risk of getting an extra game if we appeal?
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #4 : Sep 11, 2017 09:52:25 pm »
      As much as I hate to say it the send off was waranted. Now I say that after seeing the slow mo, but it is a letter of the law red card. Now his eyes were on the ball and there was NO intent involved other than trying to equalize. But I do see a chance that it does get reduced when you factor in the weekend no calls or yellows and that you can clearly see the intent was for the ball. We need him
      redindian
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #5 : Sep 11, 2017 10:00:04 pm »
      As much as I hate to say it the send off was waranted. Now I say that after seeing the slow mo, but it is a letter of the law red card. Now his eyes were on the ball and there was NO intent involved other than trying to equalize. But I do see a chance that it does get reduced when you factor in the weekend no calls or yellows and that you can clearly see the intent was for the ball. We need him

      Pretty much agree with everything you say. What's done is done. I hope the ban gets reduced.
      Rockafella88
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #6 : Sep 11, 2017 10:00:27 pm »
      I feel if we look at it and Migs got hit, we would all probably call it a red.

      My first reaction was foil but yellow, but I think the FA bred to just make it definitive, a high foot and not in control is a red or not, their call.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #7 : Sep 11, 2017 10:08:13 pm »
      It was a yellow.

      Accidental collision with an opposition  player with a raised leg.

      It was only deemed "excessive force" because Ederson charged out of his box and ran full speed towards Mane as he was raising his leg.

      Accidentally dangerous play = yellow card.
      JD
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #8 : Sep 11, 2017 10:16:20 pm »
      Rules state that the actual red can't be overturned so minimum 1 match ban so it's just questioning the 3 games.

      Personally I think it's time referees reports were publically available. That decision effectively decided the outcome of a game for the fans who spent combined millions on attending and millions on watching.

      There seems to be very little in the way of explanation or accountability for these decisions.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #9 : Sep 11, 2017 10:18:41 pm »
      Accidentally dangerous play = yellow card.

      Bingo.  If you start punishing accidental dangerous play with red cards, you will discourage players from even competing for 50/50 challenges.  At that point, we might as well be watching tennis....

      Appeal should go through and ban reduced to 1 game -- which is still 1.6 games too many....
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #10 : Sep 11, 2017 10:24:50 pm »
      No appeal necessary. 3 match ban won't be overturned. Instant red is the right decision.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #11 : Sep 11, 2017 10:27:03 pm »
      Liverpool decided before 5pm today to appeal the automatic 3 match ban for Mane's red card.

      The red card can't be overturned so he definitely misses the Burnley game.  I'd imagine he probably would have sat out the League Cup game anyway so hopefully if it can be reduced then he could be back for the second game against Leicester in the league.

      That Newcastle yellow card yesterday (and the one again tonight in the Huddersfield game) should be more than enough for Liverpool to have a case in my view.



      If it doesn't get reduced then I'd imagine we will have a season of loads of these incidents having to get punished with red cards so I'm quite hopeful.

      What do you reckon?
      they should have been sent off too.
      Cad1875
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #12 : Sep 11, 2017 10:27:36 pm »
      We have the technology use it , IMO Sadio was unlucky a brave keeper stuck his nut in where it hurts and went down accordingly  , the ref then pulls the red like a gunfighter pulling his gun  ,the other two incidents just compound the problem .

      You can either let the refs, referee and take your chances or put it upstairs for a more indepth analysis by TV,which would take all of what  20 secs which is 19 more than the pr**k with the cards ,all 3 incidents show they all aint singing from the same hymn sheet it's a shambles what really pisses me of is I actually agree with that w**ker Neville and thats definitely not a place I want to be .
      stuey
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #13 : Sep 11, 2017 10:30:29 pm »
      Rules state that the actual red can't be overturned so minimum 1 match ban so it's just questioning the 3 games.

      Personally I think it's time referees reports were publically available. That decision effectively decided the outcome of a game for the fans who spent combined millions on attending and millions on watching.

      There seems to be very little in the way of explanation or accountability for these decisions.

      The FA are incapable of anything approaching clarity.

      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #14 : Sep 11, 2017 10:46:05 pm »
      Rules state that the actual red can't be overturned so minimum 1 match ban so it's just questioning the 3 games.

      Personally I think it's time referees reports were publically available. That decision effectively decided the outcome of a game for the fans who spent combined millions on attending and millions on watching.

      There seems to be very little in the way of explanation or accountability for these decisions.

      In spain it will be made public what a player has said to a ref if they for example get sent off for dissent,  an example jordi alba asking a ref 'why always me' in holland refs will come out and explain decisions.
      stuey
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #15 : Sep 11, 2017 10:46:21 pm »
       :f_whistle:
      It was a yellow.

      Accidental collision with an opposition  player with a raised leg.

      It was only deemed "excessive force" because Ederson charged out of his box and ran full speed towards Mane as he was raising his leg.

      Accidentally dangerous play = yellow card.

      Mane of course had no way of avoiding the collision, he kept his eye on the ball throughout, the goalie teararsed out of his area and tried to butt Mane's boot.
      No way in the wòrld could either player have anticipated or prevented a collision.
      « Last Edit: Sep 11, 2017 11:06:05 pm by stuey »
      JD
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #16 : Sep 11, 2017 11:02:08 pm »
      ,all 3 incidents show they all aint singing from the same hymn sheet it's a shambles

      That is the annoying aspect. Sending a player off is a game changer. These decisions should not be queried every single weekend.

      Would love to see some of our referee's best mates betting accounts.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #17 : Sep 11, 2017 11:37:47 pm »
      The FA have set a president that Mane's foul is a 0 game ban thanks to yellows being issues with no retrospective punishment. I expect the club to settle on a 1 game ban to stop this being drawn out.

      In the spirit of the game and in the interest of accountability the FA should apologise for the incompetence their officials have in running games in this country, however they will never admit their failures which is a shame.
      king kenny
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #18 : Sep 11, 2017 11:39:52 pm »
      I thought it was a red Card.  But I would be furious if they increased the ban.  It is definitely worth contesting.  I think it should be a 1 game ban max.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #19 : Sep 12, 2017 12:55:16 am »
      It was a red. His spikes were up and obviously they landed on the face. The crazy thing is how the ref got it right in real time. It didn't look like a red when I first saw it. He also seemed to change his mind mid pull of the card. He had his hand in one pocket than went to the other. Like Klopp said, unlucky for sure. Especially when you see the Yellows handed out afterwards this weekend. But by the letter of the law it was just. I do hope they go with a one game ban when they review other calls this weekend and that you can clearly see in review it was an accident
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #20 : Sep 12, 2017 01:58:14 am »
      It was a red. His spikes were up and obviously they landed on the face. The crazy thing is how the ref got it right in real time. It didn't look like a red when I first saw it. He also seemed to change his mind mid pull of the card. He had his hand in one pocket than went to the other. Like Klopp said, unlucky for sure. Especially when you see the Yellows handed out afterwards this weekend. But by the letter of the law it was just. I do hope they go with a one game ban when they review other calls this weekend and that you can clearly see in review it was an accident

      The "letter of the law" still leaves so much open for interpretation. 

      "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play."

      How do you define "endangering the safety of an opponent?"  Had Otamendi's chop on Salah caught him a bit different, he could have easily been injured.  Could/should that have been a red? 

      How do you define "excessive force?"  In pretty sure I could pull up over 100 "fair challenges" from Mascherano's days in a red top that you could easily question if he used excessive force.  F**k, he probably had one or more in each game he played for us.  The "letter of the law" allows a red to say, "that was excessive" even if a player wins the ball.  Surely we dont want that....

      There are some challenges which have been clarified as straight red cards:  intentional elbows to the head/face;  dangling exposed studs on the end of a 50/50 allowing the other player to break his foot/leg on the bottom of your boot;  two footed slides;  a slide from behind;  etc.  However, there never seems to have been real clarification on the high boot scenario, which is why we got such vastly different outcomes from the 3 incidents this weekend.....

      F**k the letter of the law.  Judgement and common sense are what's needed 😎
      « Last Edit: Sep 12, 2017 02:07:04 am by harrydunn08 »
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #21 : Sep 12, 2017 06:54:15 am »
      First image in the OP is a kick to the face.

      Sadio went in revealing his studs. Do that anywhere below the waistline and you are walking a red card tight rope. Do that six feet in the air, well...

      The second image again looks like studs though.
      lester76
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #22 : Sep 12, 2017 08:39:33 am »
      Personally I feel he COULD have gotten a yellow and we all wouod have felt relived
      BUT if the keeper had gotten there a fraction earlier and taken out mane then it would have been a straight red for ederson
      It's a weird one.
      The benefit of the camera angle showing how mane was entirely focussed on the ball highlights to me that there was no intentional foul by Sadio but the ref never saw this view point.
      Ugh
      Still feel it was very harsh.
      The main issue to me is how we handled the game after that. We utterly capitulated.
      Embarrassing.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #23 : Sep 12, 2017 09:19:28 am »
      4 game ban incoming, appeal will be seen as frivolous in my opinion, its the F.A after all where common sense and rationale go out the window.

      I'll be very surprised if it's successful.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #24 : Sep 12, 2017 09:24:13 am »
      4 game ban incoming, appeal will be seen as frivolous in my opinion, its the F.A after all where common sense and rationale go out the window.

      I'll be very surprised if it's successful.

      Probably mate, at least we can go in with some evidence from the same weekend with similar reckless challenges with totally different outcomes.

      But yeah it is the FA so an extension is probably right.

      When do they make their decision?
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #25 : Sep 12, 2017 09:26:30 am »
      The "letter of the law" still leaves so much open for interpretation. 

      "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play."

      How do you define "endangering the safety of an opponent?"  Had Otamendi's chop on Salah caught him a bit different, he could have easily been injured.  Could/should that have been a red? 

      How do you define "excessive force?"  In pretty sure I could pull up over 100 "fair challenges" from Mascherano's days in a red top that you could easily question if he used excessive force.  F**k, he probably had one or more in each game he played for us.  The "letter of the law" allows a red to say, "that was excessive" even if a player wins the ball.  Surely we dont want that....

      There are some challenges which have been clarified as straight red cards:  intentional elbows to the head/face;  dangling exposed studs on the end of a 50/50 allowing the other player to break his foot/leg on the bottom of your boot;  two footed slides;  a slide from behind;  etc.  However, there never seems to have been real clarification on the high boot scenario, which is why we got such vastly different outcomes from the 3 incidents this weekend.....

      F**k the letter of the law.  Judgement and common sense are what's needed 😎
      My gosh, seems people can't understand what OR means. Those familiar with logic gates would understand.

      Consider only A or B have to be true for the triangle, red card to be issued.
      Consider the red card to be the triangle in this diagram.

      A= A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent
      B= uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play

      .
      DanMann
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #26 : Sep 12, 2017 09:27:10 am »
      Personally I feel he COULD have gotten a yellow and we all wouod have felt relived
      BUT if the keeper had gotten there a fraction earlier and taken out mane then it would have been a straight red for ederson
      It's a weird one.

      Bit different though mate. If the keeper had taken Mane out, it would have been a red because ederson is the last man and there is a goal scoring opportunity. So, not solely down to the "foul" on Mane, but the scenario.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #27 : Sep 12, 2017 09:29:01 am »

      Appeal hearing is today, so I'd assume we'll know today.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #28 : Sep 12, 2017 09:41:15 am »
      Appeal hearing is today, so I'd assume we'll know today.
      If this gets overturned, no player will be sent off for it again.. high footed challenges will be the norm. I don't want that. Brain injuries such as concussion will be all too common.
      The only thing that does need clearing up is what counts as dangerous play? I can give an example of why it is a bit hard to define;
      True story: I had a concussion during football. When I used to play, I was quite quick when bursting and a defender nicknamed Rhino, because he had a physique like the gladiator... tried to get the ball.. just clipped me and I tripped over with enough force to flip over and land on my head... they stuck me in a brain scan that looked like a polo mint to check for skull fractures, got the all clear... but couldn't return to work for 3 weeks due to concussion. Nothing permanent. He was late because I was just too quick, but all he did was stick his foot out, no double feet, no sliding tackle, not even sticking his foot out far. Technically it must have been dangerous if I got an injury from it, but the only way to stop that is ask a defender to not challenge for any balls.....
      see now we have a problem, players standing there doing nothing. This is quite a mess to define, which is why referees have been left to deal with it.
      redindian
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      Re: Liverpool to appeal Mane ban
      Reply #29 : Sep 12, 2017 09:43:18 am »
      Considering the incidents in the other games over the weekend, I expect the ban to be reduced to one game. If it doesn't get reduced, it would belie sanity (yet again!).

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