We AREN'T going to win the league this season, it's OK, get used to it.

 I'm beginning to get a little concerned. It bothers me when I read people say they are "beginning to doubt" our title challenge, it worries me when I see people saying "if Klopp doesn't sort out the defence he will get the sack", it irks me when I hear recordings of cockney clowns who are supposedly LFC fans ringing 606 saying "Klopp is a clown". 

 IMHO it isn't dodgy defences which bring down managers, it's unrealistic expectations of the owners and fan base. So lets nail this one here and now, we will not challenge for the title this season. Even a top four slot would be a massive achievement. Now I know that won't make me popular (as if I give a f***), but at least it means I don't have unrealistic expectations of the manager this season. Obviously I have ASPIRATIONS (and I "hope I'm wrong" and all that other bollocksy caveat sh*te which people put down on posts like these), but I'm pretty sure my hopes and aspirations will remain only that, THIS SEASON AT LEAST.

 So why can't we win it (FFS?).Well quite simply we haven't got a good enough team yet. The goalkeeper, defence and defensive midfield aspect of our team is probably bottom half at best. For that reason alone, we WILL NOT win the league, or IMHO seriously challenge for it either. Added to that, we don't IMHO have enough guile and variety against bus parkers to consistently break them down, there will IMHO be too many occasions like yesterday where we will not gain the necessary 3 points. We don't have a centre forward who scores heavily, nor do we have a midfielder who arrives and scores regularly.

 All that though isn't the bit that worries me the most. No, the bit that concerns me are the quietly whispered signs that people are losing faith in the manager. We must not do that IMHO, as losing Jürgen would be an absolute disaster for the club. It seems odd to be asking for people to have patience with a proven World Class manager, but there are rumblings in the jungle.

 I would ask people to consider what the team would look like if we had managed to get Kieta and VVD. It would look a LOT stronger, and in time it WILL look a lot stronger. For now though, we're going to give too many silly goals away, and IMHO both Manc clubs and Chelsea will finish above us, possibly Spurs too. Jürgen knows his zweibeln though, he has an inherent and an obvious football intelligence. Perhaps he's been a bit too loyal to some players, a bit too nice, but we would be fools to hang him for that.

 Enjoy this season, it will be a rollercoaster, but don't be too suicidal if we don't win the quadruple. Stick with the boss though, FFS stick with the boss. If we hounded this fella out I think I'd give up altogether.   

I'm beginning to get a little concerned. It bothers me when I read people say they are "beginning to doubt" our title challenge, it worries me when I see people saying "if Klopp doesn't sort out the defence he will get the sack", it irks me when I hear recordings of cockney clowns who are supposedly LFC fans ringing 606 saying "Klopp is a clown". 

 IMHO it isn't dodgy defences which bring down managers, it's unrealistic expectations of the owners and fan base. So lets nail this one here and now, we will not challenge for the title this season. Even a top four slot would be a massive achievement. Now I know that won't make me popular (as if I give a f***), but at least it means I don't have unrealistic expectations of the manager this season. Obviously I have ASPIRATIONS (and I "hope I'm wrong" and all that other bollocksy caveat sh*te which people put down on posts like these), but I'm pretty sure my hopes and aspirations will remain only that, THIS SEASON AT LEAST.

 So why can't we win it (FFS?).Well quite simply we haven't got a good enough team yet. The goalkeeper, defence and defensive midfield aspect of our team is probably bottom half at best. For that reason alone, we WILL NOT win the league, or IMHO seriously challenge for it either. Added to that, we don't IMHO have enough guile and variety against bus parkers to consistently break them down, there will IMHO be too many occasions like yesterday where we will not gain the necessary 3 points. We don't have a centre forward who scores heavily, nor do we have a midfielder who arrives and scores regularly.

 All that though isn't the bit that worries me the most. No, the bit that concerns me are the quietly whispered signs that people are losing faith in the manager. We must not do that IMHO, as losing Jürgen would be an absolute disaster for the club. It seems odd to be asking for people to have patience with a proven World Class manager, but there are rumblings in the jungle.

 I would ask people to consider what the team would look like if we had managed to get Kieta and VVD. It would look a LOT stronger, and in time it WILL look a lot stronger. For now though, we're going to give too many silly goals away, and IMHO both Manc clubs and Chelsea will finish above us, possibly Spurs too. Jürgen knows his zweibeln though, he has an inherent and an obvious football intelligence. Perhaps he's been a bit too loyal to some players, a bit too nice, but we would be fools to hang him for that.

 Enjoy this season, it will be a rollercoaster, but don't be too suicidal if we don't win the quadruple. Stick with the boss though, FFS stick with the boss. If we hounded this fella out I think I'd give up altogether.   

Well said Mick. I actually think we'll comfortably make top 4 and haven't got nearly what we've deserved in our early league games but it will have a similar theme to it like last season because there's no way I see us being consistent enough to actually win the league. There's no way our defence will be miserly enough to churn out results when our front players aren't performing at the top of their game and unfortunately the quality in our squad (defence most specifically) isn't strong enough.

I think this January Jürgen will get a CB in, whether that's VvD or not I'm not sure but by then I think his patience will have ran out with either Klavan or Lovren or even both but the growing surge in angst and frustration and a sense of entitlement is really poor from our fans in my opinion.

Jürgen has produced improvement year on year and really, in my opinion, that should be producing more support for him and the lads yet the overwhelming feeling is that of frustration and delusion at the one aspect he hasn't solved yet. I even saw some stupid report of a Klopp Out banner seeking donations, now that was probably by some Manc gobshites but the fact I have to even consider it could have been from our lot is the disappointing part

I can even see it in Jürgen's press conferences, he's irked by the fact that people keep highlighting the negatives, it's as if he's done nothing positive since he came in with some and he deserves far more from our lot than that. Whatever will be will be but anyone who thinks we go from Jürgen Klopp to someone better really is kidding themselves in my humble opinion.

Well said its about were we are. If we pick up a bit we may sneak 4th but with the squad we have that will be the best we will do. Still need improvements right through the spine of the team. While the top teams have all improved at best we have stood still the price payed for not spending

I'm beginning to get a little concerned. It bothers me when I read people say they are "beginning to doubt" our title challenge, it worries me when I see people saying "if Klopp doesn't sort out the defence he will get the sack", it irks me when I hear recordings of cockney clowns who are supposedly LFC fans ringing 606 saying "Klopp is a clown". 

 IMHO it isn't dodgy defences which bring down managers, it's unrealistic expectations of the owners and fan base. So lets nail this one here and now, we will not challenge for the title this season. Even a top four slot would be a massive achievement. Now I know that won't make me popular (as if I give a f***), but at least it means I don't have unrealistic expectations of the manager this season. Obviously I have ASPIRATIONS (and I "hope I'm wrong" and all that other bollocksy caveat sh*te which people put down on posts like these), but I'm pretty sure my hopes and aspirations will remain only that, THIS SEASON AT LEAST.

 So why can't we win it (FFS?).Well quite simply we haven't got a good enough team yet. The goalkeeper, defence and defensive midfield aspect of our team is probably bottom half at best. For that reason alone, we WILL NOT win the league, or IMHO seriously challenge for it either. Added to that, we don't IMHO have enough guile and variety against bus parkers to consistently break them down, there will IMHO be too many occasions like yesterday where we will not gain the necessary 3 points. We don't have a centre forward who scores heavily, nor do we have a midfielder who arrives and scores regularly.

 All that though isn't the bit that worries me the most. No, the bit that concerns me are the quietly whispered signs that people are losing faith in the manager. We must not do that IMHO, as losing Jürgen would be an absolute disaster for the club. It seems odd to be asking for people to have patience with a proven World Class manager, but there are rumblings in the jungle.

 I would ask people to consider what the team would look like if we had managed to get Kieta and VVD. It would look a LOT stronger, and in time it WILL look a lot stronger. For now though, we're going to give too many silly goals away, and IMHO both Manc clubs and Chelsea will finish above us, possibly Spurs too. Jürgen knows his zweibeln though, he has an inherent and an obvious football intelligence. Perhaps he's been a bit too loyal to some players, a bit too nice, but we would be fools to hang him for that.

 Enjoy this season, it will be a rollercoaster, but don't be too suicidal if we don't win the quadruple. Stick with the boss though, FFS stick with the boss. If we hounded this fella out I think I'd give up altogether.   

I think you've picked up on the same vibes as me in here over  the last week or two since the window closed Mick.

Of course there are frustrations and none of us will agree with all the selections all of the time.

But for the sake of the wee man we were the best team in the land about 3wk ago at 5:45 after the Arse game.

The window'a gone and we've got what we've got - that's still plenty........but it's gonna be thrilling and terrifying along the way.

I'm beginning to get a little concerned. It bothers me when I read people say they are "beginning to doubt" our title challenge, it worries me when I see people saying "if Klopp doesn't sort out the defence he will get the sack", it irks me when I hear recordings of cockney clowns who are supposedly LFC fans ringing 606 saying "Klopp is a clown". 

 IMHO it isn't dodgy defences which bring down managers, it's unrealistic expectations of the owners and fan base. So lets nail this one here and now, we will not challenge for the title this season. Even a top four slot would be a massive achievement. Now I know that won't make me popular (as if I give a f***), but at least it means I don't have unrealistic expectations of the manager this season. Obviously I have ASPIRATIONS (and I "hope I'm wrong" and all that other bollocksy caveat sh*te which people put down on posts like these), but I'm pretty sure my hopes and aspirations will remain only that, THIS SEASON AT LEAST.

 So why can't we win it (FFS?).Well quite simply we haven't got a good enough team yet. The goalkeeper, defence and defensive midfield aspect of our team is probably bottom half at best. For that reason alone, we WILL NOT win the league, or IMHO seriously challenge for it either. Added to that, we don't IMHO have enough guile and variety against bus parkers to consistently break them down, there will IMHO be too many occasions like yesterday where we will not gain the necessary 3 points. We don't have a centre forward who scores heavily, nor do we have a midfielder who arrives and scores regularly.

 All that though isn't the bit that worries me the most. No, the bit that concerns me are the quietly whispered signs that people are losing faith in the manager. We must not do that IMHO, as losing Jürgen would be an absolute disaster for the club. It seems odd to be asking for people to have patience with a proven World Class manager, but there are rumblings in the jungle.

 I would ask people to consider what the team would look like if we had managed to get Kieta and VVD. It would look a LOT stronger, and in time it WILL look a lot stronger. For now though, we're going to give too many silly goals away, and IMHO both Manc clubs and Chelsea will finish above us, possibly Spurs too. Jürgen knows his zweibeln though, he has an inherent and an obvious football intelligence. Perhaps he's been a bit too loyal to some players, a bit too nice, but we would be fools to hang him for that.

 Enjoy this season, it will be a rollercoaster, but don't be too suicidal if we don't win the quadruple. Stick with the boss though, FFS stick with the boss. If we hounded this fella out I think I'd give up altogether.   

Well said mick, don't have a problem with questions about team selection,  tactics and understand frustrations but the old saying rome wasn't built in a day is very apt

Well, though hard to understand certain things, he has my full support to put things right.
Was really disappointed with the summer window though when we were promised great thigns, and apparently had a lot of money to spend. Mainly as a result of that, agree that we won't challenge for the PL this season. Yes Keita should be a very good signing, but we will likely loose Coutinto next summer too.
The rate of improvement in a bit slower that would hope, but so be it. We've come 2nd in a couple of Cups, but for me the guage of our progress is the PL. The best team wins it, the 2nd best team comes 2nd, and so on. If we are making progress there, great. If we're not, need to look closely.
It's a results business, the only variable being how long managers get. I gave the last guy a lot longer than most and can't see past Jürgen right now though, so like everyone really hope he keeps us chugging forward.

Honestly, all this talk is too much too early. I can understand people's frustration with the same old mistakes committed again and again. But, I really can't understand the questions on the longevity of the manager. Question we must on his tactics, his press conferences etc.. But, to write off this season already is so stupid IMO.

To give a perspective, City started in the same vein last season scoring tons of goals and winning all their games. Chelsea, on the other hand, after the defeat to Arsenal had a GD of +1 having scored 10 and given away 9. They had lost to Arsenal and us during that time.

The defence is not going to become airtight overnight. It isn't exactly the start that we would have wanted. But, the table takes shape only after match week 8/10. I wouldn't give up on the season yet or stop thinking  that we are not going to challenge for the title. And, I would definitely expect at least a trophy (some other domestic trophy at least)  this season. I don't think it's unrealistic because it has been a while since we won a trophy and we have had too many "nearly" seasons in the recent past.

I'm beginning to get a little concerned. It bothers me when I read people say they are "beginning to doubt" our title challenge, it worries me when I see people saying "if Klopp doesn't sort out the defence he will get the sack", it irks me when I hear recordings of cockney clowns who are supposedly LFC fans ringing 606 saying "Klopp is a clown". 

So am I. Notice none of these fellas are brave enough to say "I want him gone". Yet.

Klopp gets shot by keyboard warriors for
1) being stubborn for not having a VVD plan b;
2) still playing his hopeless defenders;
3) not getting a defensive coach;
4) not fixing the way we defend;
5) tapping up VVD.

As if he doesn't bother to try or ain't trying. He's in the hotseat and will know better.
Like I said the people's club's doors are always open. They can walk right into it.

Honestly, all this talk is too much too early. I can understand people's frustration with the same old mistakes committed again and again. But, I really can't understand the questions on the longevity of the manager. Question we must on his tactics, his press conferences etc.. But, to write off this season already is so stupid IMO.

To give a perspective, City started in the same vein last season scoring tons of goals and winning all their games. Chelsea, on the other hand, after the defeat to Arsenal had a GD of +1 having scored 10 and given away 9. They had lost to Arsenal and us during that time.

The defence is not going to become airtight overnight. It isn't exactly the start that we would have wanted. But, the table takes shape only after match week 8/10. I wouldn't give up on the season yet or stop thinking  that we are not going to challenge for the title. And, I would definitely expect at least a trophy (some other domestic trophy at least)  this season. I don't think it's unrealistic because it has been a while since we won a trophy and we have had too many "nearly" seasons in the recent past.

I get you mate, and I considered before posting that I'd get lots of posters slamming me for "giving up" or "throwing the towel in" or "writing us off early" and such like. The truth is that's not my intention at all, anybody who "believes" or "has faith" or is "convinced" we should or will challenge for the title has my support and admiration. I wouldn't begrudge anyone that hope, it's what being a football fan is all about.

All I worry about is when people almost demand a challenge or a trophy as a right of passage, they start sentences with phrases such as "well really by now we should be..." and "considering all the money we've spent...." and the like. I'm just saying (IMHO obviously) we are probably further behind the teams who are likely to fight it out in terms of squad strength than people realise. AND, despite the fact Jürgen says he's happy with the defenders (seriously, what else is he supposed to say?) he will know that we need new personel in there.

I'm less concerned than some by Jurgens apparent stubbornness too when it comes to targets. If he wasn't stubborn, we'd have signed seven players (TC picks) for a combined total of 74 million quid in the Summer, and we'd be into rinse and repeat mode. We've seen all that before, lets now have a bit of patience until the man can get the players he REALLY wants into the team.

Also I take your point about it being "early days" both with us and the other clubs, and obviously I hope I'm wrong etc etc.

1) being stubborn for not having a VVD plan b;

But I said in another thread.

As we are led to believe VVD is the only defender out there that can improve upon Lovren and Klavan.

We looked at other options 500 million times and only VVD was good enough.

What are we going to do if he suffers a career ending injury or changes his mind and wants to go somewhere else?

Does that mean we are stuck with what we've got for ever...

Or, will we do what we should have done this summer and look at other options?

I'm fairly certain that it will be option 2 and that's the stupid thing.

Because should something happen with VVD we will most certainly have a list of players as alternatives. So why weren't they considered in the summer?

Why are these cockanee shitehawks concerned that Jürgen Klopp is not in their opinion, ''good for LFC''?
Could it be that as Mick points out, him leaving the club would have disastrous consequences?

They are scared shitless because he is the best manager in the Prem by a country mile, given the means he is capable of kicking anyone's arse. For whatever reason however he is not equipped to do so consistently.
But he does still scares the sh*t out of them.

But I said in another thread.

As we are led to believe VVD is the only defender out there that can improve upon Lovren and Klavan.

We looked at other options 500 million times and only VVD was good enough.

What are we going to do if he suffers a career ending injury or changes his mind and wants to go somewhere else?

Does that mean we are stuck with what we've got for ever...

Or, will we do what we should have done this summer and look at other options?

I'm fairly certain that it will be option 2 and that's the stupid thing.

Because should something happen with VVD we will most certainly have a list of players as alternatives. So why weren't they considered in the summer?

Mate I'm as frustrated as anyone about us not signing someone else when VVD became unavailable. Personally I'd have done it, I'd have gone to Spurs and said "you won't offer Alderweireld more than 100K a week? We will, 200K a week and we'll pay you a 40 million quid transfer fee" (I think he's in the last year of his contract).

But I'm not Jürgen, he really really wants VVD. I'm prepared to go with that and wait till we get him. I'm gutted we didn't get Keita too, but at least it shows the manager is showing the balls to tell the TC that he won't be fobbed off with cheaper alternatives, it's long overdue in my opinion.

Because should something happen with VVD we will most certainly have a list of players as alternatives. So why weren't they considered in the summer?

Could be due to quality, price or availability amongst many other things. Thing is lots on here are insisting that "there is no plan b" due to the outcome. Maybe there was but it wasn't executed due to many reasons.

Perhaps some of us from inside Melwood or journals or agents can help to explain? Identify yourselves and I'll most certainly follow you and take what you say as gospel truth. You're the missing piece in this puzzle.

Lets also nail this one now, Leicester City were never going to win it in 2016 and Chelsea with Moses, Luis and Alonso after losing to us and Arsenal were never going to win it in 2017 were they.

Mmmm

All I worry about is when people almost demand a challenge or a trophy as a right of passage, they start sentences with phrases such as "well really by now we should be..." and "considering all the money we've spent...." and the like. I'm just saying (IMHO obviously) we are probably further behind the teams who are likely to fight it out in terms of squad strength than people realise. AND, despite the fact Jürgen says he's happy with the defenders (seriously, what else is he supposed to say?) he will know that we need new personel in there.

Good OP and I took out this bit from your other post as that's where I stand too. I didn't say it out loud at the start of the season, but I never expected us to win the title this season, a little challenge would've been nice and is still very much on the cards, but that's about it. You'd have the usual crowd saying "We are LFC, we should always be challenging for the title, we should try to win every trophy there is!" Well time to wake up, we're not the LFC of the 70's and 80's anymore, we're not entitled to anything. People expecting us to genuinely challenge for the league, will always be disappointed with what they see right now and will ignore the obvious improvements we have made. Let's not forget we were a side that was consistently ending 6th-7th-8th in the league for the better part of a decade.

We were so far behind all the top teams, we've been playing catch up for years and we still are. While we were trying to get back into the top four, they were improving their squads for title challenges. We've caught up with Arsenal now and look par with Spurs. There's no shame in admitting teams like City and Chelsea are still ahead of us, given where we come from.

I've said it in the Jürgen Klopp - LFC Manager thread, look at what squad and players he inherited and look at the current squad, we've already come a long way. It's not realistic to expect Klopp to turn a squad that finished 8th (?) in the league two years ago into a title challenging / winning side in the time he has been here. That squad needed a complete overhaul and we're still missing a few very important pieces (Karius / other GK, Van Dijk and Keita). Yes, there is no trophy for making top four, but I think some people don't realize how important it is for us to get back in that top four and stay in that top four. For me this season was always about getting back in that top four and the CL and improving on last season. Have we seen the improvement yet? Perhaps not as much as we'd have liked to, but it's still early days.

I get you mate, and I considered before posting that I'd get lots of posters slamming me for "giving up" or "throwing the towel in" or "writing us off early" and such like. The truth is that's not my intention at all, anybody who "believes" or "has faith" or is "convinced" we should or will challenge for the title has my support and admiration. I wouldn't begrudge anyone that hope, it's what being a football fan is all about.

All I worry about is when people almost demand a challenge or a trophy as a right of passage, they start sentences with phrases such as "well really by now we should be..." and "considering all the money we've spent...." and the like. I'm just saying (IMHO obviously) we are probably further behind the teams who are likely to fight it out in terms of squad strength than people realise. AND, despite the fact Jürgen says he's happy with the defenders (seriously, what else is he supposed to say?) he will know that we need new personel in there.

I'm less concerned than some by Jurgens apparent stubbornness too when it comes to targets. If he wasn't stubborn, we'd have signed seven players (TC picks) for a combined total of 74 million quid in the Summer, and we'd be into rinse and repeat mode. We've seen all that before, lets now have a bit of patience until the man can get the players he REALLY wants into the team.

Also I take your point about it being "early days" both with us and the other clubs, and obviously I hope I'm wrong etc etc.

Fair enough, Mick.
For the record, I am not "convinced" that we will be challenging for the title with the defence we have because we missed an important trick in the summer. I said as much in the transfer threads and even asked one of the fellow posters if he/she really thinks we will be challenging for the title/trophies with our squad. Realistically, I am expecting a good performance in CL (quarters if we get a favourable draw in the round of 16), a domestic trophy and consolidation of top 4. Having said that there is absolutely no point in crying over spilled milk and the only point of concern now is the backing we need to give the team and the manager.

As it stands I am only "hoping" that we challenge for the title because as you say we don't exactly have the squad to challenge for the title. And, although the mistakes we make in letting in the goals cost us precious points I am not convinced that it's down to tactics. There is also the rub of green factor. For example, today Moses mistimed a kick in their defensive half outside the 18 yard box. If that was our defence, it might have resulted in a goal. Don't get me wrong here as this is not an excuse for our defending. And, for the record, I am as irritated and frustrated at the defence as anyone else. If I am so frustrated with it I can only imagine how Klopp will be with the horror show. Credible man that he is, he braves the press and takes the blame on behalf of the players and doesn't let any player get singled out.  But, I would assume that he must be very frustrated at the inability to learn from the mistakes in spite of the work that might be going into it (in one of the press conferences he did mention how the team practices defence.. 7 vs 14.. to improve).

On transfer, the strategy to go for quality vs quantity is hugely welcoming. It could also be a plan to inject some confidence in the current crop of players (obviously not working) because he mentioned on one of his press conferences on how the team lost confidence at the drop of a hat after the losses in January last season and that it was alarming to see how fragile they were at that time. IMO, that could be  a reason why he keeps saying "name me 5 players better than the current set of players". But, honestly, that is not looking like a wise strategy at the moment. The idea of going for quality vs quantity is laudable. But, the fixation on one player is a little foolish. Again, I don't know why that was the case because VVD or nothing is a bit foolhardy,  especially,  when you consider the fact that it was the No. 1 area that needed strengthening. If the strategy was to put all eggs in one basket, you need to ensure that none of the eggs in the basket break.

I'm beginning to get a little concerned. It bothers me when I read people say they are "beginning to doubt" our title challenge, it worries me when I see people saying "if Klopp doesn't sort out the defence he will get the sack", it irks me when I hear recordings of cockney clowns who are supposedly LFC fans ringing 606 saying "Klopp is a clown". 

 IMHO it isn't dodgy defences which bring down managers, it's unrealistic expectations of the owners and fan base. So lets nail this one here and now, we will not challenge for the title this season. Even a top four slot would be a massive achievement. Now I know that won't make me popular (as if I give a f***), but at least it means I don't have unrealistic expectations of the manager this season. Obviously I have ASPIRATIONS (and I "hope I'm wrong" and all that other bollocksy caveat sh*te which people put down on posts like these), but I'm pretty sure my hopes and aspirations will remain only that, THIS SEASON AT LEAST.

 So why can't we win it (FFS?).Well quite simply we haven't got a good enough team yet. The goalkeeper, defence and defensive midfield aspect of our team is probably bottom half at best. For that reason alone, we WILL NOT win the league, or IMHO seriously challenge for it either. Added to that, we don't IMHO have enough guile and variety against bus parkers to consistently break them down, there will IMHO be too many occasions like yesterday where we will not gain the necessary 3 points. We don't have a centre forward who scores heavily, nor do we have a midfielder who arrives and scores regularly.

 All that though isn't the bit that worries me the most. No, the bit that concerns me are the quietly whispered signs that people are losing faith in the manager. We must not do that IMHO, as losing Jürgen would be an absolute disaster for the club. It seems odd to be asking for people to have patience with a proven World Class manager, but there are rumblings in the jungle.

 I would ask people to consider what the team would look like if we had managed to get Kieta and VVD. It would look a LOT stronger, and in time it WILL look a lot stronger. For now though, we're going to give too many silly goals away, and IMHO both Manc clubs and Chelsea will finish above us, possibly Spurs too. Jürgen knows his zweibeln though, he has an inherent and an obvious football intelligence. Perhaps he's been a bit too loyal to some players, a bit too nice, but we would be fools to hang him for that.

 Enjoy this season, it will be a rollercoaster, but don't be too suicidal if we don't win the quadruple. Stick with the boss though, FFS stick with the boss. If we hounded this fella out I think I'd give up altogether.   

Don't twist what I'm about to say as advocation for removal of the manager because it's not, nor does that solve problems as we've seen over the last decade, but who's fault is it that we don't have a good enough team? It's not fans who persistently say they think our team is good enough to challenge for the title, it's not supporters who decide that Larry, Curly and Mo cannot be improved upon by anyone in world football other than Van Dyke. It's not us who failed to address the goalkeeping situation or look to replace westful players with more clinical ones. The situation we find ourselves in this season is partly down to Klopp's decisions so it's very unfair to suggest it's down to unrealistic expectations.

It is not unrealistic to expect a basic level of defending competence, it is not unrealistic to expect more than one shot in thirty five to find the back of the net, and it is not unrealistic to expect us to beat Burnley at home or to be higher up in the table. Nor is it unrealistic to not be angry when we're told the club had "no solutions" to the Van Dyke debacle. It isn't us who don't have game management at key moments in games, it's not us who duck underneath crosses or flail around trying to kick the ball rather than hoofing it out of the danger area and regrouping.

So I'm sorry that I don't entirely agree with your post. I agree it's moronic in the extreme to call for the manager's head, and that it's not entirely down to him alone, but the gaffer does deserve the lion's share of the blame for the poor start to the season and that poor start is not helped by his obstinent refusal to address a style of play that clearly our players are incapable of performing in and then blaming the fans for having a moan, a moan we're perfectly entitled too given all of the above. Yes, we aren't good enough to win the league just yet but after a Summer of finishing in the Champions League we once again failed with the planning to build a team capable of consolidating that position and as things stand, we're going to face a very tough challenge to qualify again next year. That isn't the supporter's fault, it's the collective responsiblity of everyone involved in the footballing side of the club, including Klopp.

Personally I'd have done it, I'd have gone to Spurs and said "you won't offer Alderweireld more than 100K a week? We will, 200K a week and we'll pay you a 40 million quid transfer fee" (I think he's in the last year of his contract).

But I'm not Jürgen, he really really wants VVD.

Butchered your post a bit Mick - excuse me this once

I thought the same in the summer - desperately wanted anyone better than Lovren and Klavan (in particular - I think Matip will come on).

Alderweireld is a good player BUT this - is the rub - .......WHEN we get VVD we'll all see the gap between him and VVD in quality is not far off the gap between you (or me!) and Jürgen. So while I would have bought - I understand why he wants his main man.

I watched him a number times (maybe 15) during his spell at Celtic with the wife's ticket - actually took advantage of it to see a bit of European football live. Strolled through games - and NOT just the SPL.

The big fella is different gravy - I'm not sure how many realise just how good he is and what a difference he makes.

Oh - I mean VVD by the way.

And Jürgen

Establishing top 4 again this year has to be important.

We were never going to win the league however City, Chelsea, United and Spurs will be hard to crack this season by the looks of it. Spurs look the most likely to miss out, but just looking at their squad you have to say they are much better equipped to deal with injuries. We've seen what happens when we are not at full strength.

With Mane, Lallana, Clyne and Coutinho all coming back soon we can beat anyone with our best team. Without one of them we are looking weak, never mind without all 4. If Matip gets injured for whatever reason, we're fu**ed. Going to be exciting, I fully expect to see our lads kick on and I'd be very happy with 3rd or even another 4th place to be honest.

Hope we get top four this year and improve already the rumors are starting about Mane

If Matip gets injured for whatever reason, we're fu**ed.

Matip to blame or had a part to play in 5 out of our last 7 goals conceded.

Matip to blame or had a part to play in 5 out of our last 7 goals conceded.

Cool story. You want Klavan and Lovren to start now? Thought not.

We can probably get VVD in Jan, and hopefully a decent DM. Keita is already done for next season. If we can make top 4, other top players will see the improvement and building we are doing. We could progress even further with a quality Striker and Keeper, and they wouldn't be fazed about joining us.
That is, IF we can keep our current star players out of the hands of Barca, Real, PSG etc...