We AREN'T going to win the league this season, it's OK, get used to it.

Considering that there were posters here disappointed with a fourth place finish last season, it's not surprising to see the mass panic breaking out now, with all of 33 games remaining.

The primary target this year is the same as last year, finish in the top 4. Of course we want to win the league, but as last year, anything more than top 4 is a bonus. So how are our main rivals for it getting on?

Arsenal: Laughing stock
Spurs: Wembley jinx
Everton: Relegation zone
Chelsea: Less home wins than us.

We're one point off this year's target with 99 points to play for. We have European Cup football to look forward to, and have lost just two games in 6 months. That's the bigger picture and what we should be focusing on. If we do that, we'll be fine.

They are scared shitless because he is the best manager in the Prem by a country mile

 

It's been clear since the opening day of the season we weren't going to end our long wait for the title. We've made a cracking signing with Salah but other than that, we've failed to address the areas that have been dragging us down for the last few years. We wasted 40mill on Ox. Not only do I disagree with that in general, and I don't mean to sound as though I'm getting at Klopp here but he comes out and says we didn't sign a CB because there isn't one out there available that is better than what we already have, so why go and spend 40mill on a player, in his final year of contract for a position that he isn't actually improving by doing so? Is he better than what we have? No. Will he be better than what we have? No. Does he match what we have? No. We would have been better off keeping Lucas.
We've signed Robertson who barely plays despite looking good and we are muddling through with that complete and utter blert in goal and with his sidekicks in defence.
Until we address these areas, we won't win anything more than the League Cup IMO, at best. City went out and massively bolstered their weak areas and look at them, they are flying and completely took us apart piece by piece.

I love that we have Klopp but his stubbornness frustrates me. I think we will have an okay season, similar to last I expect but I'm not going to get my hopes up until our weakest areas have been sorted out. Hopefully I am proved wrong but I can't see it because we are no better defensively now than we were when Klopp took over.

I'm more optimistic about next season because I think we have a real gem of a player in Keita and it's a shame we haven't got him for this season.

You the one who rang into 606?

Mick, thanks for a great thread and a balanced, even handed approach to the prospects for LFC this season. I do enjoy reading your posts as you are not afraid to state uncomfortable viewpoints if you feel that it is justified. Like you I was slightly mystifyed by the apparent approach to defensive frailties, VVD or no one it seemed to be, and given how that was an obvious weakness it does seem short sighted not to have considered that any one else would do a decent job. I know very little about football compared to Jürgen, so he obviously thought that either the existing defence would suffice for the present or that they were unable to get in any alternatives to VVD, we don't know what went on behind closed doors.

My one criticism of him would be that sometimes I feel he is too loyal to players (much like Arsene Wenger, who is convinced that some of his players will magically turn into world beaters), I feel he could be more ruthless at times. Just my opinion, I may be wrong. Mignolet for instance is a very competent keeper, but that is all he ever will be, I can't see that he will morph into a de Gea no matter how much coaching he gets.

Anyway, a great thread and hopefully there will be some more quality posts on here.

You the one who rang into 606?

Now that, unlike the post you quote, IS funny HSc

It's been clear since the opening day of the season we weren't going to end our long wait for the title. We've made a cracking signing with Salah but other than that, we've failed to address the areas that have been dragging us down for the last few years. We wasted 40mill on Ox. Not only do I disagree with that in general, and I don't mean to sound as though I'm getting at Klopp here but he comes out and says we didn't sign a CB because there isn't one out there available that is better than what we already have, so why go and spend 40mill on a player, in his final year of contract for a position that he isn't actually improving by doing so? Is he better than what we have? No. Will he be better than what we have? No. Does he match what we have? No. We would have been better off keeping Lucas.
We've signed Robertson who barely plays despite looking good and we are muddling through with that complete and utter blert in goal and with his sidekicks in defence.
Until we address these areas, we won't win anything more than the League Cup IMO, at best. City went out and massively bolstered their weak areas and look at them, they are flying and completely took us apart piece by piece.

I love that we have Klopp but his stubbornness frustrates me. I think we will have an okay season, similar to last I expect but I'm not going to get my hopes up until our weakest areas have been sorted out. Hopefully I am proved wrong but I can't see it because we are no better defensively now than we were when Klopp took over.

I'm more optimistic about next season because I think we have a real gem of a player in Keita and it's a shame we haven't got him for this season.

I agree with most of what you say here. I'm looking forward to seeing Keita too but he's another another front foot player. We desperately need players, both in defence and midfield that can defend and play with that mindset

I am getting a bit fed up of key areas not being addressed  (i was more pissed off last season actually) i must admit.

To me it looks like real amateur mistakes Klopp and co are making, almost to the extent that I have to believe he has a wider plan otherwise I am totally bemused by some of the decision making.

Cool story. You want Klavan and Lovren to start now? Thought not.

Not a story

I agree with most of what you say here. I'm looking forward to seeing Keita too but he's another another front foot player. We desperately need players, both in defence and midfield that can defend and play with that mindset

Agreed. With Keita though, as well as his attacking, you also get a player who really does give his all every game, battles and isn't scared to put his foot in. his kind of tenanacity is something we've lacked for a long time. Sure Hendo and Can are grafters too but not to the same extent IMO and certainly not to the same level either. But, this definitely won't be the answer to all our defensive problems and that will still be the main area we really need to address.

Winning the League is a pipe dream, and will continue to be a pipe dream until we sign the players that will get us there.
We were led to believe that qualifying for the CL was essential to bring to players to Anfield. We bought players that we could've signed even with European football!
Jürgen is playing football manager, trying to do it "the right way" 🙄 and FSG are counting the money we're bringing in.

I'm beginning to get a little concerned. It bothers me when I read people say they are "beginning to doubt" our title challenge, it worries me when I see people saying "if Klopp doesn't sort out the defence he will get the sack", it irks me when I hear recordings of cockney clowns who are supposedly LFC fans ringing 606 saying "Klopp is a clown". 

 IMHO it isn't dodgy defences which bring down managers, it's unrealistic expectations of the owners and fan base. So lets nail this one here and now, we will not challenge for the title this season. Even a top four slot would be a massive achievement. Now I know that won't make me popular (as if I give a f***), but at least it means I don't have unrealistic expectations of the manager this season. Obviously I have ASPIRATIONS (and I "hope I'm wrong" and all that other bollocksy caveat sh*te which people put down on posts like these), but I'm pretty sure my hopes and aspirations will remain only that, THIS SEASON AT LEAST.

 So why can't we win it (FFS?).Well quite simply we haven't got a good enough team yet. The goalkeeper, defence and defensive midfield aspect of our team is probably bottom half at best. For that reason alone, we WILL NOT win the league, or IMHO seriously challenge for it either. Added to that, we don't IMHO have enough guile and variety against bus parkers to consistently break them down, there will IMHO be too many occasions like yesterday where we will not gain the necessary 3 points. We don't have a centre forward who scores heavily, nor do we have a midfielder who arrives and scores regularly.

 All that though isn't the bit that worries me the most. No, the bit that concerns me are the quietly whispered signs that people are losing faith in the manager. We must not do that IMHO, as losing Jürgen would be an absolute disaster for the club. It seems odd to be asking for people to have patience with a proven World Class manager, but there are rumblings in the jungle.

 I would ask people to consider what the team would look like if we had managed to get Kieta and VVD. It would look a LOT stronger, and in time it WILL look a lot stronger. For now though, we're going to give too many silly goals away, and IMHO both Manc clubs and Chelsea will finish above us, possibly Spurs too. Jürgen knows his zweibeln though, he has an inherent and an obvious football intelligence. Perhaps he's been a bit too loyal to some players, a bit too nice, but we would be fools to hang him for that.

 Enjoy this season, it will be a rollercoaster, but don't be too suicidal if we don't win the quadruple. Stick with the boss though, FFS stick with the boss. If we hounded this fella out I think I'd give up altogether.   

A bit premature this thread in it's ambitions to quell dissatisfaction; as to is the very beginnings of the end murmurings for Klopp.

The beginning of the end starts somewhere, not here though but it really is Klopp's job to squash any early murmurings of dissatisfaction with him and his team. He needs to go on a run now to quell such talk, then it will all be put behind him. Football fans are fickle by nature and 5 wins on the bounce for example will do well in quietening the negative talk. I don't know what other fans across the Net are saying and thinking about Klopp, nor do I care - like I don't care when the other side of the fence keep telling us how great and world class he is in every second sentence. I take him as he comes and don't let others influence me, or try not to. I've seen pro's and con's to him like any other manager - he isn't fallible, nor beyond criticism. So, it's only fair he is questioned and held to scrutiny like any other of our previous managers have in the past, especially when the chips are down. We've all seen how the knives have been sharpened, and they start to get sharpened when we're teetering on rocky road.

I'm sorry Mick, I have to totally disagree with your:

"dodgy defences don't bring down managers,  it's unrealistic expectations of the owners and fan base"

Clearly, dodgy defences and teams do bring down their managers. Fact.

Unrealistic expectations, well, after the finish last season every fan had the bit between their teeth. We all thought if we could drag our arse over the line to fourth with a squad that needed more strength in depth, then we could kick on.

4th or better this season, with a cup. That should be the bare minimum.

Why does that ^ become unrealistic all of a sudden and why is it the fans are suddenly at fault for our expectations. We're told to believe one minute, then when things go a bit pear shaped we're told we're being unrealistic. Bit of a contradiction that. At the beginning of the summer everyone would have agreed that we looked like a team, who added with the right signings, look ready to go from strength to strength and build on last season's effort. I don't think anyone is saying we have to win the league or else there will be blood on the streets. But winning a cup, not being runners-up, or semi-finalists (we achieved the latter under Rodgers, and runners up in the league and that clearly wasn't good enough), and progressing in the league is realistic expectations.

I hate the way goalposts always move depending on who the manager or player is. Just because Klopp believes he has seen 500 million videos of defenders who are no better than Klavan or Lovren, then our expectations must be lowered. He's telling us this BS, and he's left us over exposed at the back, I'm not changing my expectations of this club because we've failed in the transfer market especially when Klopp is trying to kid everyone otherwise.

He's under a little bit of pressure now, him and his team need to come out the other end of the tunnel sooner rather than later and all will be forgotten. We know he hasn't got the defence to do that with (that's his fault), but he's got the attack to do it with (to his credit). That's the position he has placed himself in as he's got one of the most unbalanced squads we've seen in years, and is subsequently putting his credibility on the line.

Best he bust out some of that turd polish and get waxing that sh*t all over our defence, then fingers crossed we outscore our opponents in most games. That's the position he's left us in, that's the gamble he took. It's on him now to do the job, not the fans to lower their expectations in light of his errors. 

Not a story

.. with a happy ending.

Thought for a moment that I am on a West Brom or Everton forum.. a whole thread dedicated to dumbing down expectations and telling fans to get used to not winning trophies (which wasn't that hard to do during the FSG reign btw).

Oh and the irony that this was made in Klopp's defence but you basically written him off after 5 games.. isn't this what those who want him sacked are doing ? also 7 fcking thumbs up 

This seasons just a case of Champions League survival -  not being able to secure Virgil or Keita for this year made sure to that.

Not a story

Was reading the sport this morning and after seeing this thread I'm reminded of a particular quote:
"There are times when Klopps biggest test as a Liverpool manager appears to be dealing with the negativity he clearly feels pervades every sinew of the club whenever a match does not become a procession, the grumbles from the stands jarring his own glass half full mentality."

Now some might argue his biggest challenge is coaching some of our players how to defend, but I do think there's an element of truth in the above.

Thought for a moment that I am on a West Brom or Everton forum.. a whole thread dedicated to dumbing down expectations and telling fans to get used to not winning trophies

I think it's some kind of reverse psychology ploy.  Nailed on now to go on a 33 match winning run.

I think it's some kind of reverse psychology ploy.  Nailed on now to go on a 33 match winning run.

Oh mate , I hope it's a 50 game winning run. That'd get us all 4 trophies, wouldn't it? 

Expectations are set on previous performances and the promises of a transfer window. We finished 4th last season and were promised big spending in the transfer window. I actually think we did ok in the window BUT we did not address the problem areas, the same problem areas we have had ever since Klopp took over, ie Defence. For the mistake of not addressing that Klopp deserves every bit of criticism he is getting especially when he comes out with bollocks about having the best defense in the world and no players being available who could possibly improve it when we see bottom half of the table teams strengthening defensively with good players, or certainly players better than Lovren and Klavan.
Either Klopp thinks we have the best defense possible which is scary if true OR he genuinely doesn't give a sh*t about the defense which is scary if true. Either way its f**king scary and I am starting to have my doubts about our "great" manager who after all has only won the Budesliga twice, obviously a good achievement but is it a bigger achievement than Ranieri winning the prem with Leicester? BTW I'm not advocating we replace Klopp with Ranieri just trying to assess Klopp's "Greatness" without putting on rose tinted glasses.
Can Klopp turn this around, of course he can, and BTW he is in my opinion a superb man manager. ALL he needs to do is hire a defensive coach and instead of buying midfield bench warmers get some decent CB's brought in. Will he do it, unfortunately I'm starting to doubt it.

Great post by Beer, definitely a plus from me (which I know seems a bit of a contradiction).

This is the bit where I understand the sentiment, but ever so slightly disagree with them.................... ............. "Unrealistic expectations, well, after the finish last season every fan had the bit between their teeth. We all thought if we could drag our arse over the line to fourth with a squad that needed more strength in depth, then we could kick on.

4th or better this season, with a cup. That should be the bare minimum.

Why does that ^ become unrealistic all of a sudden and why is it the fans are suddenly at fault for our expectations. We're told to believe one minute, then when things go a bit pear shaped we're told we're being unrealistic. Bit of a contradiction that."


I get you mate, believe me I 100% get you. Were we not operating double standards here, the self same people who hounded the previous manager out of his job ought to be well and truly on the hounding trail by the seasons end if we didn't get fourth or a cup. The truth is though, the "double standards" thing is for others to worry about, I didn't want the last manager gone and I definitely don't want this one gone either.

See much ike yourself I wasn't overly surprised that when we replaced Luis Suarez and a fit Daniel Sturridge with Ricky Lambert and Mario Ballotelli things went a bit pear shaped. It wasn't as big a shock to me as it was some other people, nor have I been surprised when we keep on signing players that the manager doesn't actually want, it goes Pete Tong. So to me this manager has not one huge task, but two. He has to get us competitive/winning trophies etc, but he also has to change the culture of "buy them cheap sell them dear" which the transfer committee and owners love. Once he gets his players in (namely VVD and Keita) THEN I'll be saying "come on now big fella, time to see some progress" but until then (probably next season I should think) I can wait another year. To my mind it's not his fault that he didn't get his main two targets, and just because others let themselves down in previous years calling for managers heads in similar circumstances, I'm not about to follow suit.   

Mick, you go from a great opening post to this silliness and turn a good discussion about this years expectations into a Brendan vs Jürgen debate yet again. Anyway just for you I'll show you where you're wrong:

I get you mate, believe me I 100% get you. Were we not operating double standards here, the self same people who hounded the previous manager out of his job ought to be well and truly on the hounding trail by the seasons end if we didn't get fourth or a cup.

Wrong Mick, the self-same people who 'hounded' the previous manager out did so after he showed, quite clearly, that he had lost control of all transfer dealings and the football being played had devolved from scintillating to turgid. He'd shown the exact opposite of progress and by the end you, yourself (contrary to your post) said it was time for him to leave.

See much ike yourself I wasn't overly surprised that when we replaced Luis Suarez and a fit Daniel Sturridge with Ricky Lambert and Mario Ballotelli things went a bit pear shaped.

Here's where you struggle to see the reasoning behind why people could no longer support the manager because as much as the poor signings were an excuse for him, he was also culpable for them (something you've always professed to lay at a manager's feet, or are we now changing from that too?). If you go back to even after the first summer you'll see some of us picked up on this problem and were 'banging the drum' about Rodgers getting full control of the transfer committee or it would be his end. Now let's put this in perspective, when he took over he had the likes of Gerrard, Suarez, Sterling, Reina, Kuyt, Agger, Carragher etc, in his team, who were the biggest stars when he left? He turned a decent squad, one capable of challenging for the title, one that had reached two finals the year before he came in and actually delivered silverware into one where the biggest stars where really hard to identify.

So that transfer policy had to change Mick and Brendan had proven, quite conclusively, either he was part of the problem or he couldn't fix the problem, that is an absolute fact.

o to me this manager has not one huge task, but two. He has to get us competitive/winning trophies etc, but he also has to change the culture of "buy them cheap sell them dear" which the transfer committee and owners love.

What like keeping hold of Coutinho you mean, even when Barca come calling. Yeah we've done that. Also we've clearly only gone after players the manager wants, another clear improvement in the way that transfers are being handled now, another reason why Jürgen is proving to be the right man because as many of us said before he arrived he wouldn't stand for a transfer committee run like a shambles the way Rodgers would.

Once he gets his players in (namely VVD and Keita) THEN I'll be saying "come on now big fella, time to see some progress" but until then (probably next season I should think) I can wait another year. To my mind it's not his fault that he didn't get his main two targets, and just because others let themselves down in previous years calling for managers heads in similar circumstances, I'm not about to follow suit.

Total bullshit, similar circumstances and honestly pathetic of you to try and paint them the same Mick.

Differences:

Transfer committee now acting with the manager.
Progress being shown on the field.
Quality of the squad improving.
Style of football identifiable and enjoyable to watch.
Clear vision and direction in all parts of the club.

How you attempt to call that similar to the sh*t show Brendan left us with is laughable, and the attempt to rewrite history really does show how far you'll go to bend the truth.

Just a select few from the squad Brendan inherited:

                 Suarez
       Bellamy       Kuyt
            Allen   Gerrard
                 Lucas
 Enrique Agger Carragher Johnson
                 Reina

Subs: Jones, Coates, Skrtel, Suso, Sterling, Henderson, Downing, Rodriguez, Carroll

Now go and compare it to the one he left Jürgen and realise how these similarities couldn't possibly be more different.   

Luke you go from a great opening post in this thread to this silliness and turn a good discussion about this seasons expectations into an excercise in excusing previous misdemeanours by impatient fans  .

Seriously, I have no need nor reason to rehash whatever happened with previous managers. I merely acknowledged where Beers references came from, and I have sympathy with his fear that there are double standards at play.

Not from me obviously , I don't believe in sacking good managers. As you know yourself, the only reason I felt it was time to go was because the majority of the fan base had turned on him. It's exactly in the hope that such nonsense doesn't prevail this time around that I aired my views earlier.