Leicester City 2-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that were Lucas still available to Jürgen, he would get a game in EITHER defence as a centre half or as a sitting midfielder at the moment. I qualify that remark by admitting I was never a Lucas devotee AND I think we were right to sell him as he was/is way past his best, but put quite simply EVEN ALLOWING FOR THAT he'd still get in.

Our best two centre halves by a mile are Lovren and Matip, and although it is a controversial view on here I think there is little to choose between them. The others though aren't even close to being up to it. Klavan bless him has very quickly gone past his best and is deteriorating gradually, while Gomez looks to me like he has more chance of making it as a full back in the medium term than he does a centre back.

In central midfield, NONE of them really seem to be able to offer a defensive shield to our weak spot. Henderson looks to me like his injuries have worn him down, Can looks like he's already on the plane to Italy, the Ox s no defensive midfielder, nor is Grujic.

Good managers (of which Jürgen is one) find solutions to such problems. I wonder perhaps whether it might be worth giving Wijnaldum a go in there. He's got the legs for it and can put a tackle in. It would need an adjustment to our style such as it is, but we need to do something.     

I agree that we don't have a DM since Lucas left and in reality he was only an ok'ish DM, so why not play Matip as a makeshift DM or go to 3 CB's?
We have to do something and Henderson is not part of any solution going forwards, he is by a long long way our worst midfielder currently, I'd much rather play Milner than Hendo if we need a negative  limited midfielder for all our best plays to break down with!

I agree that we don't have a DM since Lucas left and in reality he was only an ok'ish DM, so why not play Matip as a makeshift DM or go to 3 CB's?
We have to do something and Henderson is not part of any solution going forwards, he is by a long long way our worst midfielder currently, I'd much rather play Milner than Hendo if we need a negative  limited midfielder for all our best plays to break down with!

Henderson will never reach Milner's current quality. Milner is not even at his best anymore.

I don't know Luke. Some of the criticism he gets on here is over the top, but he was poor yesterday. The first half he was a bit of a  passenger and in the 2nd he was a big part of the problem. It's not all on him of course, but I was really disappointed in Jordan yesterday.

Fair enough mate, like I've said to the other lads I can only go on what I remember and what I saw. I thought in the first half his control of tempo was fantastic, his range of passing and the impetus he put on those passes were much better than in recent times.

I haven't seen the stats for him yet but I'd be surprised if his passing % wasn't in the high 80s/90s and, as said, I thought they were the correct passes with purpose. In terms of defending the midfield space, in the first half he was alone doing this job and actually winning. There's a reason we had 77% possession or something nuts like that in the first half and none of that was really down to Gini or Cou winning the ball back, it was Jordan.

Sure he could have imposed himself more and become more of a threat but in all honesty as the #6 when we're creating chance after chance like that he doesn't need to move his line forward, it was working all but the finishing. Second half I thought he still stood up and was counted when people like Grujic and AOC had completely lost the plot. Almost every time either of those got the ball it was lost, you can't work with players like that the team just stopped functioning the moment those players were involved. I saw the same levelled at Woodburn who I thought was also outstanding, when the team is effectively down to 9 men, then individuals can play really well and still the team itself look dysfunctional and I thought that was more what happened that Hendo playing poorly.

I'll admit I seem to be one of the few who thought he had a good game so I do want to see the game again just to clarify but right now I can only go off memory and that's what my memory is telling me.

I agree that we don't have a DM since Lucas left and in reality he was only an ok'ish DM, so why not play Matip as a makeshift DM or go to 3 CB's?
We have to do something and Henderson is not part of any solution going forwards, he is by a long long way our worst midfielder currently, I'd much rather play Milner than Hendo if we need a negative  limited midfielder for all our best plays to break down with!

Milner was who I was thinking of if we want to switch to an out and out DM. He might not get the pulse racing, but he will stick to his defensive job, as he showed at LB last year. Might increase the old leadership qualities in the team a bit n all. Could move Hendo to the right of midfield.

(If we moved Matip to DM, where would that leave us for a CB partnership?)

We don't even have squad get in top 4 watch or win cl we sh*t in defence our midfield a joke

Can someone explain to me why when I type "Ireland" into the Ignore list it doesn't autocomplete and therefore I can't add him?

Fair enough mate, like I've said to the other lads I can only go on what I remember and what I saw. I thought in the first half his control of tempo was fantastic, his range of passing and the impetus he put on those passes were much better than in recent times.

I haven't seen the stats for him yet but I'd be surprised if his passing % wasn't in the high 80s/90s and, as said, I thought they were the correct passes with purpose. In terms of defending the midfield space, in the first half he was alone doing this job and actually winning. There's a reason we had 77% possession or something nuts like that in the first half and none of that was really down to Gini or Cou winning the ball back, it was Jordan.

Sure he could have imposed himself more and become more of a threat but in all honesty as the #6 when we're creating chance after chance like that he doesn't need to move his line forward, it was working all but the finishing. Second half I thought he still stood up and was counted when people like Grujic and AOC had completely lost the plot. Almost every time either of those got the ball it was lost, you can't work with players like that the team just stopped functioning the moment those players were involved. I saw the same levelled at Woodburn who I thought was also outstanding, when the team is effectively down to 9 men, then individuals can play really well and still the team itself look dysfunctional and I thought that was more what happened that Hendo playing poorly.

I'll admit I seem to be one of the few who thought he had a good game so I do want to see the game again just to clarify but right now I can only go off memory and that's what my memory is telling me.

How the F**k is a sideways pass of 2 yards setting the tempo or the correct pass to make when he has runners ahead of him? I really kept a close eye on him yesterday and the thing that strikes me is that he NEVER EVER tries to dribble past anyone or do a give and go/triangle, all he does is get the ball from the left and pass it right, get the ball from right and pass it left and sometimes when he's feeling a bit frisky he might pass the ball forwards a couple of yards, get it returned immediately as the player has a defender right on him, and then pass it left or right!
Henderson has ZERO vision for spotting a pass, he is probably the worst midfielder in the league, but he's our captain fantastic so starts every F***ing game!!

Can someone explain to me why when I type "Ireland" into the Ignore list it doesn't autocomplete and therefore I can't add him?

The system probably thinks you are being racilist and trying to ignore the whole country! ;-)

Can someone explain to me why when I type "Ireland" into the Ignore list it doesn't autocomplete and therefore I can't add him?

Try "Broken Record" mate see does that do the trick.

How the f**k is a sideways pass of 2 yards setting the tempo or the correct pass to make when he has runners ahead of him? I really kept a close eye on him yesterday and the thing that strikes me is that he NEVER EVER tries to dribble past anyone or do a give and go/triangle, all he does is get the ball from the left and pass it right, get the ball from right and pass it left and sometimes when he's feeling a bit frisky he might pass the ball forwards a couple of yards, get it returned immediately as the player has a defender right on him, and then pass it left or right!
Henderson has ZERO vision for spotting a pass, he is probably the worst midfielder in the league, but he's our captain fantastic so starts every f**king game!!

I have had similar frustrations with Hendo. In terms of dribbling past people, as the #6 I don't actually want him to dribble with the ball and I'd suggest Jürgen doesn't either. It's why I have issue with him ghosting past people trying to nick the ball, the risk isn't worth the reward most of the time. I would say that I don't think he has the ball skills to dribble either but that doesn't stop the fact that I don't think he should from the position he plays anyway.

You're clearly massively frustrated with him, I've had that frustration before but yesterday, for me, wasn't one of those days. There's enough people telling me I'm wrong that I'm more than prepared to rewatch the match if I ever find a copy of it but until I do I'll have to agree to disagree.

Just for clarity on Tempo and Impetus from my point of view, I've always preferred a pass that invites someone into space, isn't hit at a runner so he needs to stop running or provides enough on the pass that the receiving player can do something with it. Too often passes are hit directly to players when there is space in front of them, or when a player has his back to an opponent the pass gives him no opportunity to beat the man as there's not enough pace on it. These are the things I saw in the way Hendo passed last night and when I feel I can compare his passing to the likes of Lucas then I'm confident he was passing very well indeed that game.

Can someone explain to me why when I type "Ireland" into the Ignore list it doesn't autocomplete and therefore I can't add him?

I don't know why you are picking on Ireland. If you want to find out how to ignore, you can message a moderator. JD, RedPuppy, Reslivo etc.... not need to start on him. There is also a forum section about things like that. Technically your post is off topic and Irelands was not.

We probably won't get into the top four again with this current squad and I doubt we will win it this year too. Our defence and midfield just isn't good enough.

There, stick me on ignore too.. along with everyone else who is disappointed right now.

first half we played some good football, just did not take the chances.  Shame Danny Ings was not on, he could have got a couple.

positives though:-

Gomez - played fine.
Robertson  - was good
Ings - Good to see him back
Phil - ran the 1st half
Ward - looked more assured than the other 2.

Oh well bring on Saturady

YNWA

Fair enough mate, like I've said to the other lads I can only go on what I remember and what I saw. I thought in the first half his control of tempo was fantastic, his range of passing and the impetus he put on those passes were much better than in recent times.

I haven't seen the stats for him yet but I'd be surprised if his passing % wasn't in the high 80s/90s and, as said, I thought they were the correct passes with purpose. In terms of defending the midfield space, in the first half he was alone doing this job and actually winning. There's a reason we had 77% possession or something nuts like that in the first half and none of that was really down to Gini or Cou winning the ball back, it was Jordan.

Sure he could have imposed himself more and become more of a threat but in all honesty as the #6 when we're creating chance after chance like that he doesn't need to move his line forward, it was working all but the finishing. Second half I thought he still stood up and was counted when people like Grujic and AOC had completely lost the plot. Almost every time either of those got the ball it was lost, you can't work with players like that the team just stopped functioning the moment those players were involved. I saw the same levelled at Woodburn who I thought was also outstanding, when the team is effectively down to 9 men, then individuals can play really well and still the team itself look dysfunctional and I thought that was more what happened that Hendo playing poorly.

I'll admit I seem to be one of the few who thought he had a good game so I do want to see the game again just to clarify but right now I can only go off memory and that's what my memory is telling me.

Ben I agree was pretty good. He has a brightness about him that I really didn't see from anyone else in the 2nd half, BUT as this was not a video game, he needed to be able to link up with some others and that wasn't happening. I think Ben and Grujic before his booking were promising. Phil's final ball still isn't there, but he was a big part in our strong first half. Robertson was also good and it seems to me is developing a good understanding with Phil. Looking forward to seeing more of that.

But I'm afraid for this season and concerned there is something else going on with this team, something more than just a string of bad results. Not trying to be mystical, but something isn't right, beyond the results.

But I'm afraid for this season and concerned there is something else going on with this team, something more than just a string of bad results. Not trying to be mystical, but something isn't right, beyond the results.

This is where I would throw a criticism Hendo's way because I think it needs someone to rally the troops when things go against them and we don't have that right now. Too many similarities in the personality, there's too many who accept "things just aren't going our way" or "it's going to be one of those days". You can see it in the body language, the way the shoulders drop and the extra ping goes out of the passing, urgency becomes panicked rather than controlled and the system breaks down.

The same criticism could be levelled at Klopp though if we're being fair, Hendo is his captain, if he wanted someone better, get someone better is the truth.

It'll turn, we're playing far too well and the percentages of both missed opportunities and clear cut chances in relation to actual chances can't remain as they are, it simply isn't going to play out like that for a prolonged period but right now we're caught in a little storm and we need to fight our way out of it. I've absolutely no doubt that will be very soon.

Almost 20 pages on a 3rd round League Cup game.

I'm thrilled so many of you now agree with me that it is an important trophy, because when I saw 12 pages for last years winning Quarter Final I had my doubts about your commitment.

Almost 20 pages on a 3rd round League Cup game.

I'm thrilled so many of you now agree with me that it is an important trophy, because when I saw 12 pages for last years winning Quarter Final I had my doubts about your commitment.

It's mainly because Markovic was on the bench.

Almost 20 pages on a 3rd round League Cup game.

I'm thrilled so many of you now agree with me that it is an important trophy, because when I saw 12 pages for last years winning Quarter Final I had my doubts about your commitment.

You're right but it could be worse mate.. they could be pretending it doesn't matter in a feeble attempt to defend a shitty defeat. 😕

25 pages... that's how many there were when we got beaten, in the FA cup, at Oldham 2013 so a wee bit to go yet. 😊

I don't know why you are picking on Ireland. If you want to find out how to ignore, you can message a moderator. JD, RedPuppy, Reslivo etc.... not need to start on him. There is also a forum section about things like that. Technically your post is off topic and Irelands was not.

We probably won't get into the top four again with this current squad and I doubt we will win it this year too. Our defence and midfield just isn't good enough.

There, stick me on ignore too.. along with everyone else who is disappointed right now.

I'm pretty sure Ireland's sole reason for joining this forum is to air he's disappoinment at LFC.

As if we didn't have enough negativity on here already like.

I have had similar frustrations with Hendo. In terms of dribbling past people, as the #6 I don't actually want him to dribble with the ball and I'd suggest Jürgen doesn't either. It's why I have issue with him ghosting past people trying to nick the ball, the risk isn't worth the reward most of the time. I would say that I don't think he has the ball skills to dribble either but that doesn't stop the fact that I don't think he should from the position he plays anyway.

You're clearly massively frustrated with him, I've had that frustration before but yesterday, for me, wasn't one of those days. There's enough people telling me I'm wrong that I'm more than prepared to rewatch the match if I ever find a copy of it but until I do I'll have to agree to disagree.

Just for clarity on Tempo and Impetus from my point of view, I've always preferred a pass that invites someone into space, isn't hit at a runner so he needs to stop running or provides enough on the pass that the receiving player can do something with it. Too often passes are hit directly to players when there is space in front of them, or when a player has his back to an opponent the pass gives him no opportunity to beat the man as there's not enough pace on it. These are the things I saw in the way Hendo passed last night and when I feel I can compare his passing to the likes of Lucas then I'm confident he was passing very well indeed that game.

I don't want him bombing into the box at every opportunity but just once in a while try a run forwards, the very best DM's will occasionally play attack when the opportunity presents itself and yesterday there were several such occasions but on each occasion Jordan decided against it. Perhaps that is because of strict instructions from Klopp but I kind of doubt it.

Don't know how you managed to blame that on Coutinho. He was running the show. We disappeared as an attacking force as soon as he went off.

Running the show...? He was running the show so much he was subbed at half time...How man times did he try his party trick, you know the one where he picks the ball up wide left and cuts in on his right foot and tries to bend it in to the top corner....?? 7 eight times and each time the defender knew what he was going to do and the block him...? And as I pointed out, not just in this game, but he has been poor since he was re-introduced into the team, I don't just blame Coutinho but he was toted as being part of the solution when he was in fact part of the problem.... With his form If i ran Barca I would offer £18-£20 m tops... At present we look better with him out of the squad than him in the squad

Running the show...? He was running the show so much he was subbed at half time...How man times did he try his party trick, you know the one where he picks the ball up wide left and cuts in on his right foot and tries to bend it in to the top corner....?? 7 eight times and each time the defender knew what he was going to do and the block him...? And as I pointed out, not just in this game, but he has been poor since he was re-introduced into the team, I don't just blame Coutinho but he was toted as being part of the solution when he was in fact part of the problem.... With his form If i ran Barca I would offer £18-£20 m tops ... At present we look better with him out of the squad than him in the squad

Come on mate, be serious. It makes for better debate if the post is at least bordering on sensible.

Running the show...? He was running the show so much he was subbed at half time...How man times did he try his party trick, you know the one where he picks the ball up wide left and cuts in on his right foot and tries to bend it in to the top corner....?? 7 eight times and each time the defender knew what he was going to do and the block him...? And as I pointed out, not just in this game, but he has been poor since he was re-introduced into the team, I don't just blame Coutinho but he was toted as being part of the solution when he was in fact part of the problem.... With his form If i ran Barca I would offer £18-£20 m tops... At present we look better with him out of the squad than him in the squad

We look better without him? Did you watch the match and compare the first and second half when he went off.
No great surprise that the opposition manager saw the opportunity of Coutinho going off to go more attacking is there any better praise for the threat of one player.

Him cutting in and firing it aimlessly can't be aimed at him last night, it was nothing like against Burnley which I described as moronic at the time.

Running the show...? He was running the show so much he was subbed at half time...How man times did he try his party trick, you know the one where he picks the ball up wide left and cuts in on his right foot and tries to bend it in to the top corner....?? 7 eight times and each time the defender knew what he was going to do and the block him...? And as I pointed out, not just in this game, but he has been poor since he was re-introduced into the team, I don't just blame Coutinho but he was toted as being part of the solution when he was in fact part of the problem.... With his form If i ran Barca I would offer £18-£20 m tops... At present we look better with him out of the squad than him in the squad

This is a silly post. Coutinho was head and shoulders above every other player on the pitch during the first half.

Although for posters like me not overly bothered about this Cup what it means is likely less opportunities for the likes of Solanke, Woodburn etc which is always a shame as how do they show they are ready to be given a chance at the top level.