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      Catalan Referendum

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      Shabs
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      Catalan Referendum
      Oct 01, 2017 11:14:00 am
      Horrible sh*t being done to the Catalonians..


      https://twitter.com/rt_com/status/914429462967717888

      Shabs
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #1: Oct 01, 2017 11:36:57 am
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #2: Oct 01, 2017 03:07:15 pm
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #3: Oct 01, 2017 03:10:02 pm
      Ridiculous. Barcelona having to play behind closed doors as well, the league refused to postpone the game for reasons I have to assume weren't the most honest.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #4: Oct 01, 2017 03:20:07 pm
      Shabs
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #5: Oct 01, 2017 03:43:03 pm
      Shabs
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #6: Oct 01, 2017 03:54:42 pm
      Spanish riot police beating Spanish Firefighters who are protecting Civil protesters..

      https://twitter.com/ian56789/status/914490245273604099
      JD
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #7: Oct 01, 2017 04:07:49 pm
      I think before today the majority of Catalonians were against independence but you have to wonder if Spain have now turned that on its head.

      If the vote was illegal, and therefore non-binding, should have just let them get on with it IMO.

      Anyway, footy.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #8: Oct 01, 2017 04:22:00 pm
      I think before today the majority of Catalonians were against independence but you have to wonder if Spain have now turned that on its head.

      If the vote was illegal, and therefore non-binding, should have just let them get on with it IMO.

      Anyway, footy.

      Illegal a far as The Spanish government are concerned, but it's it actually illegal to hold independence referendums IF the majority of the people in that region want it? Im not 100% sure they'd win the independence vote anyway, and I can see why Spain wants then to remain £££.

      Anyone know what the criteria for an independence vote?
      leosc
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #9: Oct 01, 2017 04:23:10 pm
      Those images look like the ones coming from Venezuela a few weeks ago, disgusting behavior from the police and government to treat its own citizens that way, certainly not what I'd expect to see in an EU country.

      Agree with JD, after this probably more people will support independence, I believe polls were around 42% for the yes vote, now…
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #10: Oct 01, 2017 07:35:01 pm
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #11: Oct 01, 2017 07:36:48 pm
      Ridiculous. Barcelona having to play behind closed doors as well, the league refused to postpone the game for reasons I have to assume weren't the most honest.

      https://twitter.com/FCBarcelona/status/914487515654103041
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #12: Oct 01, 2017 10:12:08 pm

      Having arranged the game knowing full well the clash with the referendum,  almost pushing the club into a corner
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #13: Oct 01, 2017 10:14:09 pm
      Foreign office saying it's a matter for spain, echoing the British reaction to the generals uprising back in 1936
      Dadorious
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #14: Oct 02, 2017 04:26:31 am
      That's a cop out from Barca the football club. Should have exercised the "more than a club" motto got behind its people and taken on the Spanish FA.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #15: Oct 02, 2017 08:49:21 pm
      90% voted to split from Spain. Catalonia should be a country.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #16: Oct 03, 2017 12:06:30 am
      That's a cop out from Barca the football club. Should have exercised the "more than a club" motto got behind its people and taken on the Spanish FA.

      Hence numerous resignations from the board
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #17: Oct 03, 2017 10:10:33 pm
      I think it's inevitable now that Catalonia will gain independence, and they'll do just fine on their own. The region already contribute more (GDP)to the Spanish economy than the rest of Spain.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #18: Oct 04, 2017 08:13:47 am
      Don't get nationalism [or any f**king ism, to be fair], never did and...

      It's all the more laughable when you see fucksticks, who want to be part of a non-border, Europe cry to become a small "independent" state.

      Where do you stop, and (literally) draw the line; towns breaking away from Catalonia because they want to be Spanish? Or streets, in towns, breaking away from towns, which have broken away from Catalonia, because those streets feel Catalonian? 🙄💩
      FL Red
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #19: Oct 04, 2017 02:52:07 pm
      Don't get nationalism [or any f**king ism, to be fair], never did and...

      It's all the more laughable when you see fucksticks, who want to be part of a non-border, Europe cry to become a small "independent" state.

      Where do you stop, and (literally) draw the line; towns breaking away from Catalonia because they want to be Spanish? Or streets, in towns, breaking away from towns, which have broken away from Catalonia, because those streets feel Catalonian? 🙄💩

      That's some Catalonian style inception right there.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #20: Oct 04, 2017 05:39:23 pm
      Don't get nationalism [or any f**king ism, to be fair], never did and...

      It's all the more laughable when you see fucksticks, who want to be part of a non-border, Europe cry to become a small "independent" state.

      Where do you stop, and (literally) draw the line; towns breaking away from Catalonia because they want to be Spanish? Or streets, in towns, breaking away from towns, which have broken away from Catalonia, because those streets feel Catalonian? 🙄💩
      Some of those houses on those streets may want a vote on their own and declare themselves independent.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #21: Oct 09, 2017 08:41:36 am
      350,000 + pro Spain protesters in Barcelona yesterday - tells a different tale. Maybe there will be a cooling of the jets from the "independence" side.
      althebest1
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #22: Oct 09, 2017 03:04:16 pm
      I think before today the majority of Catalonians were against independence but you have to wonder if Spain have now turned that on its head.

      If the vote was illegal, and therefore non-binding, should have just let them get on with it IMO.

      Anyway, footy.

      Taken from Wiki: A referendum held in Catalonia in 2014 indicated that 92% of the 2.3 million voters supported Catalonia's transformation into a state. 80% of the 2.3 million voters expressed their preference that this state would be independent.
      They have been building up to this for a while. You are right JD should have let them get on with it, I mean beating ordinary people up for wanting to vote? Wtf very democratic, it's sickening.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #23: Oct 24, 2017 07:57:21 pm
      I read that the Catalonian leaders may issue their own Declaration of Independence. I hope they do. Its apparant that the majority of the Catalan people want to be separate from Spain. I hope its handled politically but I think the Spanish government will declare some sort of martial law. Unfortunately if they send in the military iits going to get ugly.

      I cant wait for the Classico!
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #24: Oct 24, 2017 08:27:53 pm
      I read that the Catalonian leaders may issue their own Declaration of Independence. I hope they do. Its apparant that the majority of the Catalan people want to be separate from Spain. I hope its handled politically but I think the Spanish government will declare some sort of martial law. Unfortunately if they send in the military iits going to get ugly.

      I cant wait for the Classico!

      They won't send in the military, that's what the Guardia Civil are for.

      Same fuckers that were quite handy twatting unarmed civilians.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #25: Oct 24, 2017 10:53:43 pm
      They won't send in the military, that's what the Guardia Civil are for.

      Same fuckers that were quite handy twatting unarmed civilians.

      Are the Guardia civil a police force or a national guard?
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #26: Oct 24, 2017 11:14:28 pm
      Are the Guardia civil a police force or a national guard?

      This is the description from wiki

      "the oldest law enforcement agency in Spain. It is organised as a military force charged with police duties under the authority of both the Ministry of the Interior and the Ministry of Defence"
      stuey
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #27: Oct 25, 2017 10:37:09 am
      Are the Guardia civil a police force or a national guard?

      They kick arse good style, more like your National Guard than police.
      stuey
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #28: Oct 25, 2017 10:39:49 am
      Don't get nationalism [or any f**king ism, to be fair], never did and...

      It's all the more laughable when you see fucksticks, who want to be part of a non-border, Europe cry to become a small "independent" state.

      Where do you stop, and (literally) draw the line; towns breaking away from Catalonia because they want to be Spanish? Or streets, in towns, breaking away from towns, which have broken away from Catalonia, because those streets feel Catalonian? 🙄💩

      A recipe for f**king chaos.

      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #29: Oct 26, 2017 05:20:55 pm
      They kick arse good style, more like your National Guard than police.
      So they're an arm of the Spanish Government / Spanish military who is under the auspices of the Spanish President or Prime Minister ? Are they actually Police or security services? Because one article i read on the Guardian stated that the police forces in the Catalan area may not enforce any directives from Madrid or orders from the Spanish Government.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #30: Oct 26, 2017 05:25:43 pm
      That's a cop out from Barca the football club. Should have exercised the "more than a club" motto got behind its people and taken on the Spanish FA.

      Problem for Barca is they cant go against LaLiga or the Spanish FA. For now they need to play and seceeding from La Liga would destroy Barcelona FC.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #31: Oct 26, 2017 07:01:25 pm
      So they're an arm of the Spanish Government / Spanish military who is under the auspices of the Spanish President or Prime Minister ? Are they actually Police or security services? Because one article i read on the Guardian stated that the police forces in the Catalan area may not enforce any directives from Madrid or orders from the Spanish Government.

      They will be on about the local police forces.
      stuey
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #32: Oct 26, 2017 08:21:06 pm
      So they're an arm of the Spanish Government / Spanish military who is under the auspices of the Spanish President or Prime Minister ? Are they actually Police or security services? Because one article i read on the Guardian stated that the police forces in the Catalan area may not enforce any directives from Madrid or orders from the Spanish Government.

      They are to all intents and purposes military police with national security a priority.
      Those reports or any reports about Catalonian self-rule are extremely hypothetical.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #33: Oct 27, 2017 02:36:25 pm
      Independence has been declared, no doubt rajoy will decare article 155 which will trigger elections
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #34: Oct 28, 2017 05:07:10 am
      Im pissed that the US has endorsed the Spanish Government. Were a nation that fought for Independence and won. Personally, if the majority of the Catalonian people want and vote for Independence than i support it 100%. I hope its a peaceful proces but i have a feeling the Spanish government, with the suspension of the Catalan police, will use force and it may become a civil war.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #35: Oct 28, 2017 05:24:41 am
      VIVA ESPANA. If you want, you can borrow our Declaration. Its pretty good. The last paragraph is my favorite.

      When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

      That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.


      But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —
      stuey
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #36: Oct 28, 2017 06:34:37 am
      Im pissed that the US has endorsed the Spanish Government. Were a nation that fought for Independence and won. Personally, if the majority of the Catalonian people want and vote for Independence than i support it 100%. I hope its a peaceful proces but i have a feeling the Spanish government, with the suspension of the Catalan police, will use force and it may become a civil war.

      Apparently your leaders interpretation of your Bill of Rights differs from the way you see it. 

      Could it be that said Bill of Rights is only used when convenience permits?
      Shabs
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #37: Oct 28, 2017 09:18:53 am
      Im pissed that the US has endorsed the Spanish Government. Were a nation that fought for Independence and won. Personally, if the majority of the Catalonian people want and vote for Independence than i support it 100%. I hope its a peaceful proces but i have a feeling the Spanish government, with the suspension of the Catalan police, will use force and it may become a civil war.

      You aint pissed at your Goverment for bankrolling a racist Arparthied state Israel & basically wiping 'Palestine' off the map...

      Back to Spain, civil war on the way..
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #38: Oct 28, 2017 12:56:19 pm
      You aint pissed at your Goverment for bankrolling a racist Arparthied state Israel & basically wiping 'Palestine' off the map...

      Back to Spain, civil war on the way..

      If i got angry at every dick move my country made I would be a serial killer.

      But in order to put a quick stop on having to sit and read another patented Shabs, anti israel rant on this forum, I'll stroke your ego. Yes, I support Israel. Yes, i support a free Palestinian state. Yes, I am against the treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza and yes, I am against Hamas. Can we move on now or will you hijack this thread as usual and talk sh*t about Israel which has NOTHING to do with Catalan Independence.
      « Last Edit: Oct 28, 2017 02:12:02 pm by YANK_LFC_FAN »
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #39: Oct 28, 2017 09:30:49 pm
      Im pissed that the US has endorsed the Spanish Government. Were a nation that fought for Independence and won. Personally, if the majority of the Catalonian people want and vote for Independence than i support it 100%. I hope its a peaceful proces but i have a feeling the Spanish government, with the suspension of the Catalan police, will use force and it may become a civil war.
      Whilst USA won the war of independence, you have to give huge credit to the French who provided assistance. They entered through Canada and traveled south to ambush the British. Not only that, the war was a waste of time because we handed Canada, Zealand, Australia, India and Jamaica...etc independence after World War 2. The only difference is, if USA did not win or there were no war, the USA would be a part of the commonwealth nations and the Queen would also be the Queen of USA as well as UK, New Zealand, Canada ... etc.... and to be honest, she does not get involved in politics much, especially in commonwealth nations other than UK. USA would still be independent... and there are advantages to being a commonwealth nation. Benefits include certain aspects of citizenship and trade, on the citizenship part.. it doesn't mean automatic visa free living on other countries, but it can help with residence, for example somebody with a British grandad can move to UK if they are born in commonwealth and grandad is born in UK, for everyone else, such is USA citizens it has to be a parent not a grandparent.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Catalan Referendum
      Reply #40: Oct 29, 2017 10:14:33 am
      Whilst USA won the war of independence, you have to give huge credit to the French who provided assistance. They entered through Canada and traveled south to ambush the British. Not only that, the war was a waste of time because we handed Canada, Zealand, Australia, India and Jamaica...etc independence after World War 2. The only difference is, if USA did not win or there were no war, the USA would be a part of the commonwealth nations and the Queen would also be the Queen of USA as well as UK, New Zealand, Canada ... etc.... and to be honest, she does not get involved in politics much, especially in commonwealth nations other than UK. USA would still be independent... and there are advantages to being a commonwealth nation. Benefits include certain aspects of citizenship and trade, on the citizenship part.. it doesn't mean automatic visa free living on other countries, but it can help with residence, for example somebody with a British grandad can move to UK if they are born in commonwealth and grandad is born in UK, for everyone else, such is USA citizens it has to be a parent not a grandparent.
      Yeah, the French definitely turned the tide. The land battles were pretty even for awhile. We had some big victories and big losses. It was the introduction of the French navy which really helped. They stopped the British resupplies and created a defacto siege of the British Army. Once they couldnt resupply men and material Washington slowly ground Cornwallis down. Once the British forces couldnt fight their way out of Yorktown or retreat to the ships, Cornwallis surrendered. Washington actually forced Cornwallis to walk from his HQ and literally lay his sword down. But Cornwallis was humiliated and sent his aide to surrender.

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