Newcastle United 1-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

He couldn't even beat the offside trap against a team that sits deep.

Yea, that had me pulling a few more remaining hairs out too

Did we create a decent clear chance in the last 20 mins?
The pattern of the game was the same all the way thro, tight, very little space. 2nd half we looked tired. Bit more life when made the changes, but thought Solanke contributed more, but yea, just imo.

Agree he left it too late, bit less than 20 mins. Should've done it 10 mins before that.

I thought the pattern changed completely, we actually had movement up top with Firmino and Solanke who inter-played well and we did create much more openings. Clear chances I suppose the AOC one was one and the penalty shouts but also the positions we got into where we had 3 or 4 men in the box with both Gomez and Moreno able to cross to, unfortunately their crosses didn't hit their targets but they had men open to hit.

But let's be honest though, we got away with plenty similar incidents in the past with Skrtel.
Against weaker teams I'd like to see us able to win without having to look back at single incidents and think what if. Sadly it's either a tie or winning by one for us these days.

Agree with that on both counts, I thought Skrtel was a penalty waiting to happen for many games, finally it did get stamped out a little but shirt pulling and wrestling in the penalty area always infuriates me, should never be allowed beyond a simple hand on the opponent. Once that shirt gets pulled it should, really, be a foul no matter where you are on the pitch, it's as clear a sign of intentionally seeking to gain unfair advantage as you can get imo.

We could not beat Walford sh*t against crystal palace we draw with Burnley at home now Newcastle we get worse as team we out league cup out of league top 4 look like we won't get it very depression

https://twitter.com/ianwilson69/status/914528342581358592

https://twitter.com/AnfieldHQ/status/914551297394843650

What a winning mentality ha.. when things get though leave

Wijnaldum suggesting it's good to go away any time would sound fishy to me.

Thought he was poor again today.

Love know how klopp going fix these pressure going on now for utd match spurs away lose two he need start get rid of players in summer or else he need go

Thought Klopp looked the angriest he's ever been and the most under pressure he's ever been

With us at least

https://twitter.com/AnfieldHQ/status/914551297394843650

What a winning mentality ha.. when things get though leave

Before the game he said something about being able to understand why Coutinho wants to leave for Barcelona.

Understands himself too well, Gini lad.

My ratings:

Migs: Could he have done better with the goal? Maybe a bit harsh, but my trust in him is diminished to the point where I'm always left asking myself. Other than that, as normal. 6/10.

Gomez: We're in a bit of a pickle really in that neither him nor TAA are really ready for a top team in the Premiership yet, and the unfairly maligned Nathanial Clyne (who definitely is) is injured. Not Joes best game, but probably at this stage of his career as good as he actually is. 5/10.

Matip: Unlucky that the goal actually went in, but was sleeping in the build up to it. Shame really as I thought he had the best game he's had for a few weeks. I think it was him on the line who got denied by Shelveys headed clearance, and if it was it kind of sums up my frustration with him sometimes. A John Terry or a Gary Cahill puts Shelvey in the net along with the ball, and I'd just like to see Matip be a little more aggressive. For the goal though, I'm afraid it's only a 5/10.

Lovren: I thought he was poor. We moan about him getting fouled from the set piece, but he gets himself involved in a wrestling match rather than trying to head the ball all the time. Distribution was patchy and funereally slow, and I think he could have communicated better with Matip for the goal. 5/10.

Moreno: I thought he was poor too. Poor crossing, poor defensively and a silly haircut. 5/10.

Hendo: One of the better players, but in truth did little to alter the course of the match either positively or negatively. 6/10.

Coutinho: Best player on either team by a mile and another brilliant goal. 8/10.

Wijnaldum: Unlucky with the shot that hit the post, ran around a bit and no doubt did a lot of unseen work (which I didn't see). 5/10.

Salah: You pays your money and you takes your chance with this lad. Seems honest and genuine enough, sometimes his legs work quicker than his brain and occasionally he does stuff which is bonkers. Always a threat though, I like him. 7/10.

Mane: Don't know what was wrong with him today, just didn't seem up for it. I should think there'll be a school of thought which says the reason he was sh!te was/is because Sturridge was playing, but while the presence of Danny didn't help him I wouldn't be inclined towards excusing him that easily. That said, he's one of our best players and you can't be great every week. 4/10.

Sturridge: When I saw Firmino last week, I thought to myself that it would be a long time before I saw a Liverpool centre forward play as bad as that again. Sturridge came in today and was even worse. I'm not going to hide behind double standards, bollocks and excuses, I thought he was absolutely f****** terrible. I also said last week that Firmino didn't even run around a lot like he normally does during his stinker, but he still ran around a lot f****** more than Sturridge did today. I ran around more than him sitting at the end of the bar watching it on the big screen. Really really poor. 2/10.

Subs:

Solanke: For a young kid I thought he did pretty well. That said, much like Firmino in comparison to Sturridge he was always going to look like Pele once he actually came on. He's got something though this lad, no doubt about it. 7/10.

Firmino: Thought he did pretty well too once he came on. The running around a lot of the team as a whole obviously increased, but we looked more of a threat. The two riders I'd put on that would be like Solanke, Sturridge and Mane were that bad it really wasn't hard to improve on them, and for some reason we ALWAYS get much more urgent in the last few minutes. No question though, he was a big improvement. 7/10.

The Ox: I'm afraid I can't get past the header. If he scores it he's a shoo in 7/10 and a hero. He didn't though did he? 5/10. 
 

Couldnt watch the match, but we're not very good, are we?

Don't think Studge not scoring proves we should've started Firmino - just proves that neither are in good goalscoring form right now.

And that we should have bought a proven striker in the summer. ( I think you were one of the people agreeing with me about this during the window though.)

We have got problems.

We are short a prolific striker, short a CB, apparently short a better LB than Moreno, and don't have a goalie Jürgen seems to really trust.

4 things could happen that could solve these problems. Solanke could do a Rashford, Robertson could turn out to be a good LB, Ward could turn out be a top goalie ( or maybe Mignolet can still kick on from last season). CB is the longest shot - maybe Gomez coming good for us?

If all 4 of those happened, we'd still have a shot at the title. But the truth is we will be lucky if we get 2 out of the 4, and that would still leave us 2 positions short.

And if none of those 4 happen, we are goosed for the season.

It's the same old story with FSG. We are trying to build a team on the cheap, and hoping to get lucky.

Couldnt watch the match, but we're not very good, are we?

I think that's the reality mate yes. Coutinho's goal should have been the catalyst for solidity, picking them off and a comfy win while improving the goal difference. As it was, more poor defending (and it was REALLY poor this time) let them back in, and from  there although we huffed and puffed we didn't play well.

Probably a good test of the squad strength is if the authorities decided to open the transfer window for a "one week only bonus", what would teams do? The two Manc clubs, Spurs and Chelsea would probably stick (maybe Man City would buy a striker after Aguerros accident). Us and Everton, we'd be like supermarket sweep putting bids in for every bugger. Quite simply, we don't have enough players who are playing well enough to anywhere near contenders.   

I think that's the reality mate yes. Coutinho's goal should have been the catalyst for solidity, picking them off and a comfy win while improving the goal difference. As it was, more poor defending (and it was REALLY poor this time) let them back in, and from  there although we huffed and puffed we didn't play well.

Probably a good test of the squad strength is if the authorities decided to open the transfer window for a "one week only bonus", what would teams do? The two Manc clubs, Spurs and Chelsea would probably stick (maybe Man City would buy a striker after Aguerros accident). Us and Everton, we'd be like supermarket sweep putting bids in for every bugger. Quite simply, we don't have enough players who are playing well enough to anywhere near contenders.   

On the defending Mick I’m afraid I’m back to what I said Thu / Fri about lacking anyone with an inate / core defensive instinct.

Technically I think they are close enough - just that they don’t pass the man or at the very least shout.

It’s utterly bewildering at this level. I’d go buck mental at my 14yr olds for that.

Solanke looked sharper than Sturridge.

Solanke did look good.

If not Sturridge, then Solanke. Both ahead of Firmino. 

Can't say we didnt have the chances to win it.

If our 'bad run of form' includes losing 1 game to City with 10 men. The i'll take it. Its a long season.

Souness just nailed it about passing stats and safe passes  . One good thing about Matip is he makes some decet 10-20 yard balls FORWARD . Wijaldum and Henderson are  to safe and negative no creativity .

Solanke should be given a start instead for me he is certainly no worse than Firminho or Sturridge went close today ideally year or two earlier than it should be but options thin would even give Ings a go

Klopp has a LOT to answer for with this team. They're an embarrassment. This defence is the worst Liverpool defence I've ever seen. Gomez at right back is a bag of sh*t and so are Mignolet & Lovren in their positions yet Klopp goes on saying they're amazing and nobody can provide an upgrade F**k OFF!

On the defending Mick I’m afraid I’m back to what I said Thu / Fri about lacking anyone with an inate / core defensive instinct.

Technically I think they are close enough - just that they don’t pass the man or at the very least shout.

It’s utterly bewildering at this level. I’d go buck mental at my 14yrs old for that.

That's what I took from it too mate. I did read your exchange with the fella the other day, and unsurprisingly I agree with the way you look at it. That is to say some people are natural defenders, the same as some people are natural communicators, naturally fast runners, naturally aggressive etc. That's not to say people can't be nurtured and improved by coaching obviously, but much like being a natural at sticking the ball in the onion bag there are aspects of defending which you either have or you haven't.

Both of our two strike me as centre halves which would be OK alongside a commanding pack leader in defence. I did hold out misplaced hope that Lovren would be that figure back there, but both Matip and he are like bouncers who are always somewhere else when it kicks off. Yes Matip was having a little daydream and was at fault, but Lovren could have woken him sharpish with a "DROP!!" shout, or whatever it is that those two say to each other (if anything). The truth is that neither of them play "together", they're like nippers in a sandpit who are each playing with their own tractors.

Something has to change or we'll be having the same conversation every week.

We could probably cut and paste issues with the team that were posted a decade ago and save ourselves time!

The current CB pairing must be the worst first choice I have seen in my lifetime.
A player who should have been dispatched a few years ago and another who it seems is not the answer either.

Need to stop with the Gomez at RB experiment as he is clearly not up to standard to play that role.

How sh*t must the Ox be in training to not get a start over the invisible man Gini. Such a waste of midfielder it's like playing with 10 men.

Said it in the half time thread unfortunately Sturridge is finished at this level. He is now just living off the 13/14 form.

Don't know what sort of goals Salah scored for Roma but they must have all been tap ins, he certainly has zero composure in front of goal.

The lack of transfer activity is coming home to roost. We didn't strengthen in our weakest areas and it's now costing us points.
No striker, at least one decent CB and a quality midfielder should have been a minimum.

We signed one first teamer and no great surprise we look worse for it.

Ratings:

Mignolet: Thought he dwelt too long for a couple of hung up crosses that caused us a few issues at back posts which could have easily been avoided. Didn't really do anything for their goal but not sure there was much he could have done. 6

Moreno: Thought he played well but delivered poor crosses, linked well with Coutinho and won the duels he needed to. Was never a free-kick on this side where he was called 'rash' in my opinion. 7

Lovren: Thought late on he committed a god awful challenge, didn't cover or look assured too often and to me looks slower at the moment. Perhaps that's to do with the painkillers but he doesn't move smoothly right now. Aerially he did ok and was definitely denied a clear pen. 6.5

Matip: Will get it in the neck for their goal but out of the pair of CBs he was the only one that had the recovery pace to get anywhere near him, got the challenge in and from there on I thought it was just 'one of those things' that seems to be constantly against us right now. Much like Kenny's last season when we were hitting all the posts this has a similar theme where if it can go wrong it will and no matter how much we dominate or are the better side karma/luck/whatever just has it in for us right now and today was Matip's turn to get the short end of that stick. Other than that he was solid, bailed out Gomez more than once and also unlucky not to be given a pen imo. 7

Gomez: Poor, both in attack and at the back, looked like a kid out there far too often. His nerves got the better of him with his passing, he wasn't decisive and generally looked like this was a bit much for him right now. 5

Henderson: Again, I thought he played alright, not as good as the last 3 but still decent. Broke up more of their play than any other player out there and pinged a good few passes around. Heard him trying to communicate with the other lads plenty and I'm not sure there was an awful lot more he could have done defensively. Didn't offer enough going forward but he can be expected to venture less when away from home I suppose. 7

Wijnaldum: Awful, surprised he stayed on the pitch but then the other lads really couldn't argue going off either. I'm exhausted and frustrated watching him, I want him to do better but I now expect him to be bad. His level has dropped to the point where if he does something ordinary I'm like "that's it Gini, come on!" as if he's done something good. Needs time out of the team but without Lallana available I wonder if Jürgen will drop Bobby into his role. 5

Coutinho: Clearly the highest quality in the side today, still don't think he did enough with the opportunities he had but to be fair he produced an absolute world class finish, contender for goal of the season probably just for the sheer power and placement. 7.5 MotM

Salah: Mixed bag for Mo, thought he should have scored earlier when Sturridge put him clear, kind of got his feet in a muddle but also played well in spurts. Just an inconsistent day that tuned with the team, the rhythm just wasn't there. When Bobby came on he also sparked into life more and the interchanging with Solanke as Dom drifted out wide was good, could see it's something we've been working on but didn't get to see it with Sturridge unfortunately. 6.5

Sturridge: One good pass, one missed sitter, 2 offsides and falling over at the end and looking 'injured' when really tired about sums it up. Static, lacking energy, unable to sprint, poor end product. If this is what starting him buys you then even a bang out of form Firmino is a better option unfortunately for him. 5

Mane: Wasn't working for Sadio today, didn't have much help around him or movement to give him that space but still his passing was slightly off and he was left to contend with too many players on him. I think a few players contributed to this ganging up on Sadio and that was Sturridge, Coutinho and Wijnaldum. Coutinho I thought was more tactical, we played him from deeper and therefore left more defenders free to pick up the free players, but Wijnaldum and Sturridge just didn't move for the lad. He'd beat one, or look inside/outside and there'd just be nothing. Sure he played poor, but when people ask can dropping Firmino make Mane or Salah play worse, then watch this match with any other this season that Bobby played and see the contrast. 5

Solanke: Did well when he came on, unlucky with his glancing header, could do little else but nicely beat the defender. Inter-played with Mo and Firmino much better and really worked it side to side. Saw real promise in that performance, want to see him given more minutes. 6

Firmino: Gave us the movement, the winning the ball back and base to advance from which we needed much earlier in the half. Had he and Solanke been on earlier I'm sure we'd have had a couple of goals because they compliment each other and I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of this combination in the future. That front 4 of Solanke/Mane/Salah/Firmino could be devastating but it's whether we can afford to risk Coutinho/Henderson as the remaining two. Not sure we could if I'm honest but it might be the way to go even still. 6.5

AOC: Missed a good chance, think he was being pushed in the back but Newcastle did a good job of wasting time at the end so he really didn't get a chance to show much more.

Klopp: Bowed to the calls for dropping Bobby and fairly too, but I think next time that decision comes up it's either Ings or Solanke that gets the nod. Visibly frustrated at Sturridge and Gomez near half time when both lost the ball, thought he wanted to punch one of them. Obviously he didn't but as Rush says that's the angriest he's been at LFC (there's a few notches higher to see yet). Left his substitutions too late though and allowed Newcastle to escape with the draw rather than truly earn it in my opinion and today was a bad day for Jürgen.

Think he has a few selection questions to answer when we play again. Expect Bobby back in is easy, but start Solanke, drop Wijnaldum, drop Gomez (this seems without question). Time to earn your corn Boss, being the better team is winning us nothing right now and the vultures are just waiting to take a bite. 5

Can't say we didnt have the chances to win it.

If our 'bad run of form' includes losing 1 game to City with 10 men. The i'll take it. Its a long season.

I know where you are coming from PG. But, we really need to be better than that. We seem to have regressively become worse with each game. With Klopp talking about the 5-0 victory when he was managing Mainz, I had an odd feeling that this was going to be a bad day. With all our competitors gaining points (except Chelsea), it was important that we didn't lose ground today. Of course these are still early days and one good week in October can turn everything in our favour.  But, if truth be told, Newcastle was a bad team, albeit well drilled, and we had to put them to sword. Instead we are left to rue the result.

Can't say we didnt have the chances to win it.

If our 'bad run of form' includes losing 1 game to City with 10 men. The i'll take it. Its a long season.

Kind of where I'm at with it all.

I'm not brushing over our issues but I'd be a lot more concerned if we were going to Newcastle and hardly seeing the ball and getting out of there going 'phew' we got lucky with that point.

A lot of people have been praising Spurs and Chelsea this season and they're only 1 and 2 points ahead of us.

Would genuinely not surprise me if we beat United and Spurs in our next two games (but then probably drew v Huddersfield of course!)

When Coutinho was nearly off this summer there were loads saying that Mane was our best player and probably worth more to us, but even he's having a blip.  And that's genuinely what I think it is in terms of our attack. 

That's what I took from it too mate. I did read your exchange with the fella the other day, and unsurprisingly I agree with the way you look at it. That is to say some people are natural defenders, the same as some people are natural communicators, naturally fast runners, naturally aggressive etc. That's not to say people can't be nurtured and improved by coaching obviously, but much like being a natural at sticking the ball in the onion bag there are aspects of defending which you either have or you haven't.

Both of our two strike me as centre halves which would be OK alongside a commanding pack leader in defence. I did hold out misplaced hope that Lovren would be that figure back there, but both Matip and he are like bouncers who are always somewhere else when it kicks off. Yes Matip was having a little daydream and was at fault, but Lovren could have woken him sharpish with a "DROP!!" shout, or whatever it is that those two say to each other (if anything). The truth is that neither of them play "together", they're like nippers in a sandpit who are each playing with their own tractors.

Something has to change or we'll be having the same conversation every week.

Think this is fair Mick and good nipper analogy, not enough unison in our play and certainly not enough leadership in that defence. I, like you with Lovren, hoped that Matip could be a leadership figure but he's actually become quite timid. I rate him highly as a defender, I know you are having doubts but I think he's easily our best CB and indeed right up there but he does need a bit of a shout now and again and perhaps VvD could have been that guy I don't know. I do know we need someone commanding to be willing to get things wrong but also get the majority right, think our lads are so concerned with getting stuff wrong that stepping forward and being that leader is too intimidating for either of them.