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      We need to talk about Henderson...

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      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      • YNWA
      We need to talk about Henderson...
      : Oct 14, 2017 03:47:53 pm »
      The dreaded sequel to the 'We need to talk about Gerrard' thread...

      is it perhaps time to start having an honest discussion about Henderson's role at this club?

      Bar a couple of matches this season (he was excellent in that second half against Leicester) I am having grave doubts about his suitability for our ambitions and where we want to go. His performances from England have only exacerbated the notion that he is a black hole, sucking the tempo and life out of the game with nonsensical passes that offer no purpose (backwards, sideways, backwards, sideways and repeat) and more often than not attempts at distributing the ball have barely come off adding a further layer of impotence about his game. Even on the leadership front, today I wanted to see him screaming in the face of Atkinson, demanding action after a series of fouls by Man Utd. Yet he was, more often than not, completely absent. Where's the bark, let alone the bite? What is he exactly? A defensive midfielder? A playmaker? A water carrier? Is he a bit of all three meaning he's a bit of everything to everyone but nothing to anyone? Would Man City, United, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal have him in their first elevens? If not then why should it be good enough for us?

      Too many questions I know but the fact there are so many perhaps says enough.
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      5timesacharm
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #1 : Oct 14, 2017 03:56:17 pm »
      I'm going to play Devil's adovcate here, although I'm a firm believer in constantly upgrading on what you've got, if upgrades are available, but how do we know those "nonsensical passes that offer no purpose" are not on the orders of the gaffer? Klopp seems to like him, having made no moves to strip him of the Captaincy, never mind drop him from the team, let alone replace him altogether. Perhaps he's just doing exactly what's expected of him?
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #2 : Oct 14, 2017 04:03:06 pm »
      I'm going to play Devil's adovcate here, although I'm a firm believer in constantly upgrading on what you've got, if upgrades are available, but how do we know those "nonsensical passes that offer no purpose" are not on the orders of the gaffer? Klopp seems to like him, having made no moves to strip him of the Captaincy, never mind drop him from the team, let alone replace him altogether. Perhaps he's just doing exactly what's expected of him?

      We don't have much choice to play him given the scarce options we have in that area of the field but I'm struggling to see the productivity of these passes. Truth be told I think Klopp plays him in the hope that he produces a Chelsea away performance like last season. Hope rather than expectation at this moment and that's our problem - we seem to rely on hoping player x plays well as opposed to the top top teams where they expect them to play well every single game. Merely hoping something will come good isn't good enough at this level.
      « Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 04:08:23 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      HScRed1
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #3 : Oct 14, 2017 04:05:39 pm »
      Decent Squad player but shouldn't be starting for a team with serious ambitions.
      fckmediocrity
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #4 : Oct 14, 2017 04:08:06 pm »
      The dreaded sequel to the 'We need to talk about Gerrard' thread...

      is it perhaps time to start having an honest discussion about Henderson's role at this club?

      Bar a couple of matches this season (he was excellent in that second half against Leicester) I am having grave doubts about his suitability for our ambitions and where we want to go. His performances from England have only exacerbated the notion that he is a black hole, sucking the tempo and life out of the game with nonsensical passes that offer no purpose (backwards, sideways, backwards, sideways and repeat) and more often than not attempts at distributing the ball have barely come off adding a further layer of impotence about his game. Even on the leadership front, today I wanted to see him screaming in the face of Atkinson, demanding action after a series of fouls by Man Utd. Yet he was, more often than not, completely absent. Where's the bark, let alone the bite? What is he exactly? A defensive midfielder? A playmaker? A water carrier? Is he a bit of all three meaning he's a bit of everything to everyone but nothing to anyone? Would Man City, United, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal have him in their first elevens? If not then why should it be good enough for us?

      Too many questions I know but the fact there are so many perhaps says enough.

      This !!
      We went from a captain that would start in any first 11 and being craved by the best clubs in the world to a guy that should be relegated with Sunderland in the second division.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #5 : Oct 14, 2017 04:13:23 pm »
      We don't have much choice to play him given the scarce options we have in that area of the field but I'm struggling to see the productivity of these passes. Truth be told I think Klopp plays him in the hope that he produces a Chelsea away performance like last season. Hope rather than expectation at this moment and that's our problem - we seem to rely on hoping player x plays well as opposed to the top top teams where they expect them to play well. Merely hoping something will come good isn't good enough at this level.

      Devil's advocate aside, the sad fact is mate that the weaknesses you attribute to Henderson are prevelent throughout the team. If he's a water carrier, who exactly is he carrying it for? For Wijnaldum? For Can? Flip that around and ask, are they picking up the slack left by Henderson? The plain fact of the matter is this team needs an entirely new spine if it's to compete and unfortunately, that's a view that seems to be shared by everyone but the person it needs to be - Klopp. You ask the question, would he get in any other Top six team's starting eleven? The bigger question to ask, is who out of our midfield squad, would? Coutinho would be the only one and there's a good chance we'll lose him next Summer.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #6 : Oct 14, 2017 04:14:54 pm »
      Devil's advocate aside, the sad fact is mate that the weaknesses you attribute to Henderson are prevelent throughout the team. If he's a water carrier, who exactly is he carrying it for? For Wijnaldum? For Can? Flip that around and ask, are they picking up the slack left by Henderson? The plain fact of the matter is this team needs an entirely new spine if it's to compete and unfortunately, that's a view that seems to be shared by everyone but the person it needs to be - Klopp.

      If it's to be believed, then Ancelotti was right with regards to demanding a new spine if he was appointed manager two years ago. And I seriously doubt he would have kept Henderson in the side. But I suppose that's the difference between the two managers. Carlo wants instant quality and instant results. Klopp's quite happy to bide his time and nurture the best out of them. And more importantly for FSG, Klopp's way of seeing things is a whole lot cheaper.
      HScRed1
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #7 : Oct 14, 2017 04:20:24 pm »
      If it's to be believed, then Ancelotti was right with regards to demanding a new spine if he was appointed manager two years ago. And I seriously doubt he would have kept Henderson in the side. But I suppose that's the difference between the two managers. Carlo wants instant quality and instant results. Klopp's quite happy to bide his time and nurture the best out of them. And more importantly for FSG, Klopp's way of seeing things is a whole lot cheaper.

      Indeed and that's something a lot of posters don't see or want to accept that Klopps hands are tied, just need to look at the average spend since FSG have been at the club. The arrival of Klopp has made no difference.

      redindian
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #8 : Oct 14, 2017 04:27:21 pm »
      Indeed and that's something a lot of posters don't see or want to accept that Klopps hands are tied, just need to look at the average spend since FSG have been at the club. The arrival of Klopp has made no difference.



      Which is why I think Klopp said during the week that not a lot of people can do a better job than him. This isn't to say that Klopp is complaining because I believe that he prefers this situation to spending 200mn every season.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #9 : Oct 14, 2017 04:59:50 pm »
      The dreaded sequel to the 'We need to talk about Gerrard' thread...

      is it perhaps time to start having an honest discussion about Henderson's role at this club?

      Bar a couple of matches this season (he was excellent in that second half against Leicester) I am having grave doubts about his suitability for our ambitions and where we want to go. His performances from England have only exacerbated the notion that he is a black hole, sucking the tempo and life out of the game with nonsensical passes that offer no purpose (backwards, sideways, backwards, sideways and repeat) and more often than not attempts at distributing the ball have barely come off adding a further layer of impotence about his game. Even on the leadership front, today I wanted to see him screaming in the face of Atkinson, demanding action after a series of fouls by Man Utd. Yet he was, more often than not, completely absent. Where's the bark, let alone the bite? What is he exactly? A defensive midfielder? A playmaker? A water carrier? Is he a bit of all three meaning he's a bit of everything to everyone but nothing to anyone? Would Man City, United, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal have him in their first elevens? If not then why should it be good enough for us?

      Too many questions I know but the fact there are so many perhaps says enough.

      I'd have replaced him long ago, I always thought he lived in the shadows of Stevie G and was forgiven for being a passenger for too long, too often.

      His performance too often can be defined as "didn't really do anything". His inability to either be a creative force, offer a goal threat or be solid defensively is too often far too clear.

      Had these debates with Si around the time Kenny was sacked and at that point I was convinced Henderson was just a bit too thick really. I say this because when tempo needs injecting, or when time is running out, he continues doing the safe and simple. When we're losing he does the same, when we're winning he does the same, he just doesn't seem to grasp, or have the ability, to change his game according to what the situation requires.

      Occasionally he'll have a great game and some of them have been recently but when looked at as a whole the lad is just an average player who has become Liverpool captain by default rather than truthfully grasping the mantle. He's a good kid, a great player to have around the club, much in the same way Lucas was good for team spirit but when I see him on the pitch, as a fan, I feel totally uninspired.

      I've seen posters say "haters gonna hate" and all that bollocks about the criticism of Hendo, but it's not about hate, it's about disappointment and dejection, so many times what he does just results in a sigh of, same old, same old.
      Billo
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #10 : Oct 14, 2017 05:13:42 pm »
      Imo can > hendo > gini. Only one should be allowed to start. Hopefully lallana will replace hendo or gini.
      noggin
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #11 : Oct 14, 2017 05:22:15 pm »
      A crab goes sideways less, and like Can, about 1 good game in every 10, far too inconsistent, doesn't really lead like a skipper should, need far more dynamism from our midfield to compete with the best.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #12 : Oct 14, 2017 05:30:10 pm »
      I'd have replaced him long ago, I always thought he lived in the shadows of Stevie G and was forgiven for being a passenger for too long, too often.

      His performance too often can be defined as "didn't really do anything". His inability to either be a creative force, offer a goal threat or be solid defensively is too often far too clear.

      Had these debates with Si around the time Kenny was sacked and at that point I was convinced Henderson was just a bit too thick really. I say this because when tempo needs injecting, or when time is running out, he continues doing the safe and simple. When we're losing he does the same, when we're winning he does the same, he just doesn't seem to grasp, or have the ability, to change his game according to what the situation requires.

      Occasionally he'll have a great game and some of them have been recently but when looked at as a whole the lad is just an average player who has become Liverpool captain by default rather than truthfully grasping the mantle. He's a good kid, a great player to have around the club, much in the same way Lucas was good for team spirit but when I see him on the pitch, as a fan, I feel totally uninspired.

      I've seen posters say "haters gonna hate" and all that bollocks about the criticism of Hendo, but it's not about hate, it's about disappointment and dejection, so many times what he does just results in a sigh of, same old, same old.

      Never thought of him as the most intelligent footballer and I always thought his tendency to pass back and utterly kill the momentum was lack of confidence but I think there's weight in what you say with him being well, a bit 'thick'. Smart players will gauge the atmosphere, tempo, moment in the match well and it seems Henderson has no capability of doing that whatsoever. The saddest thing though is that it's the very antithesis of what we understood or thought Klopp's football to be. I just have a sneaky feeling that Klopp is betraying the principles that has done so well for him in his career by continuing to hope for the best from these types of players.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #13 : Oct 14, 2017 05:33:15 pm »
      Never thought of him as the most intelligent footballer and I always thought his tendency to pass back and utterly kill the momentum was lack of confidence but I think there's weight in what you say with him being well, a bit 'thick'. Smart players will gauge the atmosphere, tempo, moment in the match well and it seems Henderson has no capability of doing that whatsoever. The saddest thing though is that it's the very antithesis of what we understood or thought Klopp's football to be. I just have a sneaky feeling that Klopp is betraying the principles that has done so well for him in his career by continuing to hope for the best from these types of players.

      Agreed.

      Think this is where Henderson's personality will buy him that bit extra time from Jürgen because I've no doubt whatsoever that Hendo puts in the effort both on the pitch and off it. He has a lot of qualities which will earn respect and time from Jürgen, I'm just not sure how far that loyalty and patience will stretch. That, as you say, applies to a few players.
      Scotia
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #14 : Oct 14, 2017 05:43:17 pm »
      Just came to site and haven’t look at anything all day.

      Honestly - and I admit to being a fan - I thought he did a great job today in a very disciplined role.

      When they did try to be adventurous it was usually him who tracked the runners.

      alex1995
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #15 : Oct 14, 2017 05:46:15 pm »
      Not good enough, at least at DM. As you said, he would not start for ManU, Chelsea, ManCity... I prefer when he plays as box-to-box and when he gets in the opposition's box. His passing is good and he can score but as a DM he's a liability.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #16 : Oct 14, 2017 05:46:34 pm »
      Just came to site and haven’t look at anything all day.

      Honestly - and I admit to being a fan - I thought he did a great job today in a very disciplined role.

      When they did try to be adventurous it was usually him who tracked the runners.



      He did do well enough mate it was an industrious performance, but it only Hendo had better vision his final balls were so poor.
      Scotia
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #17 : Oct 14, 2017 05:50:00 pm »
      He did do well enough mate it was an industrious performance, but it only Hendo had better vision his final balls were so poor.

      I know what you mean but part of that was that they were so deep and compact.

      There were many defence splitting passes to play - how many times did one of the midfield or Bobby play the pass between the CBs and full back only to see the space wasn’t there and it was mopped up?

      I think we’ll look back on today more positively in Jan than we do now.
      bigmick
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #18 : Oct 14, 2017 06:16:48 pm »
      I know what you mean but part of that was that they were so deep and compact.

      There were many defence splitting passes to play - how many times did one of the midfield or Bobby play the pass between the CBs and full back only to see the space wasn’t there and it was mopped up?

      I think we’ll look back on today more positively in Jan than we do now.

      So do I mate, not a lot wrong with today's result or performance. The trouble is though when you fail to beat Watford, Burnley, Newcastle etc you put yourself under pressure to win the top six head to heads. We didn't quite manage it, but it's not results like this one which will stop us doing any good.

      fields of anny rd
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #19 : Oct 14, 2017 06:40:02 pm »
      Had my doubts for a while now. Seems to have gone backwards and turned into a crab (sideways passing and reverting into his shell.)

      I've put it down to that pain he was playing with in his heel but surely thats all done with now?

      Naby Keita could be in line for our captains place next season.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #20 : Oct 15, 2017 12:18:58 am »
      but how do we know those "nonsensical passes that offer no purpose" are not on the orders of the gaffer?

      Lucas never had such a negative impact in distributing from deep as a #6 under Klopp, and watch how a natural #6 shift the ball from deep, then compare it to Hendo, and you would know that Klopp doesn't give him specific orders in how he wants him to distribute from deep. Seriously, the Henderson supports that wear their Henderson glasses should just accept he is NOT a #6 and will NEVER distribute the ball as good as a natural #6.

      You know, I actually think his distribution from deep is one of the reasons why we struggle to manage the game/midfield when ahead, and perhaps another is that we are not creating as much chances as we should be too. I still can't believe how underrated the position is tbh.

      We should just spend 40-60m on Jorginho and have Hendo as back up #6, then we would see a huge difference imo.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #21 : Oct 15, 2017 12:45:38 am »
      We need to talk about our spine.

      Ancelotti knew this.

      Henderson is part of that spine.

      So is Lovren and Matip.

      So to Mignolet.

      So to Firmino.

      « Last Edit: Oct 15, 2017 05:38:23 am by Beerbelly »
      Beerbelly
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #22 : Oct 15, 2017 06:06:00 am »
      Indeed and that's something a lot of posters don't see or want to accept that Klopps hands are tied, just need to look at the average spend since FSG have been at the club. The arrival of Klopp has made no difference.

      I can't keep up with this shifting of sands.

      We were all told that now Klopp is here he has the final say on transfers and money to spend, fact is, he's had as much say in where and what he's spending money on. He chose not to spend in two succesive winter windows, he chose not to look for alternatives or back-ups in defence after the VVD debacle.

      Speaking of VVD, we were touted as signing VVD for anything up to 70 million this summer; blowing away anything we had previously paid for in a transfer window!

      Now, unless that was complete BS (us wanting to sign VVD), you cannot whinge on one hand that Klopp doesn't have the money while in the next hand you're readying to spend approximately 70 odd million on one player.

      You can't have this both ways.

      We've just spent 35 million pounds on AOC. If we were as cash poor as you are now implying then spending that kind of money on a bench warmer (who actually looked bright yesterday btw), was reckless to say the least.

      What people don't want to accept is that Klopp has the final say on transfers and has had the opportunity to spend money and has either sanctioned deals or not.
      HScRed1
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #23 : Oct 15, 2017 10:01:41 am »
      I can't keep up with this shifting of sands.

      We were all told that now Klopp is here he has the final say on transfers and money to spend, fact is, he's had as much say in where and what he's spending money on. He chose not to spend in two succesive winter windows, he chose not to look for alternatives or back-ups in defence after the VVD debacle.

      Speaking of VVD, we were touted as signing VVD for anything up to 70 million this summer; blowing away anything we had previously paid for in a transfer window!

      Now, unless that was complete BS (us wanting to sign VVD), you cannot whinge on one hand that Klopp doesn't have the money while in the next hand you're readying to spend approximately 70 odd million on one player.

      You can't have this both ways.

      We've just spent 35 million pounds on AOC. If we were as cash poor as you are now implying then spending that kind of money on a bench warmer (who actually looked bright yesterday btw), was reckless to say the least.

      What people don't want to accept is that Klopp has the final say on transfers and has had the opportunity to spend money and has either sanctioned deals or not.

      I suppose we can all differ in our views as no one really knows the truth.

      No way Saints would have turned down the "alleged" £70M we were willing to spend, Only fact is our average spend has stayed the same even with the arrival of Klopp.

      We get spun plenty of BS from the club.

      bigmick
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #24 : Oct 15, 2017 10:23:41 am »
      Henderson is some way below what you need if you are serious about your aim to be a really top team, that much is fairly obvious. Whether it's Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can or a combination of all three, we are clearly miles behind the best teams in the league in terms of midfielders. Whether we're talking Kevin De Broyne, Davide Silva, N'golo Kante, Pogba, Errikson, Wanyama, Dier etc, we are short in quality in there. Whether Henderson is the most pressing issue I'm not sure, but I suppose the fact that he's the captain puts him under the microscope.

      On transfers and transfer funds, I've never bought into the narrative that Jürgen is totally in control of transfers. It's frankly a silly notion which the evidence simply doesn't bear out, but there's no doubt in my mind that until we spend much heavier, we will struggle to keep pace with the high fliers.   
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #25 : Oct 15, 2017 10:42:53 am »
      Henderson is more than good enough when he has a creative player beside him. It's why he was just as important to the side that finished runners up under Rodgers as Suarez, Sturridge and Gerrard were. It was his harrying of the opposition that constantly won us the ball, play it simple to Gerrard and then Stevie takes the credit for an amazing ball to Luis or Danny. Sticking him in a midfield trio of himself, Wijnaldum and Can is just repeating the Mascherano/Lucas partnership that was f**king sh*te as well. All too similar and none good enough to be the creative force you need in the middle of the park.

      And with Mane's injury, Coutinho is more likely to be played as one of the front three rather than a slightly deeper role where he helps Henderson like he did against Moscow and Newcastle, which were two of Henderson's better games this season. When he has that creative player beside him.

      So for me the question is not Henderson, the question is why have we not bought a creative central midfielder to accompany Henderson. Rather than Gini and Can who are just too samey to Henderson.

      As for would other sides in the top six pick him, what a load of f**king bollocks. Maybe they wouldn't pick him, maybe he wouldn't get into their starting XI's but a couple of years ago neither could Danny Sturridge - his career with us is still nearly one in two. Victor f**king Moses is a regular for Chelsea, yet do you remember his time here? Chris Smalling and Phil f**king Jones are at the heart of the United defence. You could go through every one of the top six and say "he wouldn't get into our side". It doesn't mean they're not a good player. If we're being honest, there's hardly a host of clubs lining up to sign any of our players so by the logic of they wouldn't get into the top six sides, all our players are sh*t.

      And the captain discussion is another mute point. He's the captain of the club, deal with it. Klopp has been here two full years now and has made no hints that he's thinking of taking the captaincy off Henderson. There also isn't a stand out candidate to replace him, until there is and until Klopp thinks we need to change captains, then Henderson is, rightfully, our captain.

      All of this comes down to Jürgen Klopp anyway. When fit, Henderson plays. Even when he's unfit, Henderson plays. For me that's why he broke down a couple of times when returning from injuries because we put him back into the team too early. Klopp obviously rates him and doesn't look as if he's planning on changing Henderson's position. We can all sit and speculate and say Can would do a better job in that position (not that I'd ever say that in all honesty) or that Lallana should come back and take Henderson's place (I wouldn't say that either) but it's Klopp who picks the team and Klopp, when he can, picks Jordan Henderson in his starting XI.

      So if Henderson isn't good enough but is constantly picked by the manager, then the manager you all think is god's gift must be sh*t to. Or, maybe Henderson is actually doing the job that god's gift wants him to and therefore is good enough for Klopp.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #26 : Oct 15, 2017 11:51:34 am »
      Henderson is more than good enough when he has a creative player beside him. It's why he was just as important to the side that finished runners up under Rodgers as Suarez, Sturridge and Gerrard were. It was his harrying of the opposition that constantly won us the ball, play it simple to Gerrard and then Stevie takes the credit for an amazing ball to Luis or Danny. Sticking him in a midfield trio of himself, Wijnaldum and Can is just repeating the Mascherano/Lucas partnership that was f**king sh*te as well. All too similar and none good enough to be the creative force you need in the middle of the park.

      And with Mane's injury, Coutinho is more likely to be played as one of the front three rather than a slightly deeper role where he helps Henderson like he did against Moscow and Newcastle, which were two of Henderson's better games this season. When he has that creative player beside him.

      So for me the question is not Henderson, the question is why have we not bought a creative central midfielder to accompany Henderson. Rather than Gini and Can who are just too samey to Henderson.

      As for would other sides in the top six pick him, what a load of f**king bollocks. Maybe they wouldn't pick him, maybe he wouldn't get into their starting XI's but a couple of years ago neither could Danny Sturridge - his career with us is still nearly one in two. Victor f**king Moses is a regular for Chelsea, yet do you remember his time here? Chris Smalling and Phil f**king Jones are at the heart of the United defence. You could go through every one of the top six and say "he wouldn't get into our side". It doesn't mean they're not a good player. If we're being honest, there's hardly a host of clubs lining up to sign any of our players so by the logic of they wouldn't get into the top six sides, all our players are sh*t.

      And the captain discussion is another mute point. He's the captain of the club, deal with it. Klopp has been here two full years now and has made no hints that he's thinking of taking the captaincy off Henderson. There also isn't a stand out candidate to replace him, until there is and until Klopp thinks we need to change captains, then Henderson is, rightfully, our captain.

      All of this comes down to Jürgen Klopp anyway. When fit, Henderson plays. Even when he's unfit, Henderson plays. For me that's why he broke down a couple of times when returning from injuries because we put him back into the team too early. Klopp obviously rates him and doesn't look as if he's planning on changing Henderson's position. We can all sit and speculate and say Can would do a better job in that position (not that I'd ever say that in all honesty) or that Lallana should come back and take Henderson's place (I wouldn't say that either) but it's Klopp who picks the team and Klopp, when he can, picks Jordan Henderson in his starting XI.

      So if Henderson isn't good enough but is constantly picked by the manager, then the manager you all think is god's gift must be sh*t to. Or, maybe Henderson is actually doing the job that god's gift wants him to and therefore is good enough for Klopp.

      Don't agree with it all but it's a good post well made dls.

      In times of shortages however he needs to take more responsibility and bite. If we're comparing him to Victor Moses who while playing well enough over the last year, most Chelsea fans still believe they can improve upon. Regardless of his improvement I really would have expected more from a Liverpool captain than be mentioned in the same breath as him.
      wellbuilt
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      • 1,023 posts | 134 
      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #27 : Oct 15, 2017 12:25:34 pm »
      i am far from impressed with Henderson

      he simply does not offer enough. He is not good enough in all departments to be considered with the best players in the league. He falls short time and time again.

      he is very determined and can pull a pass out every now and again....but the issue is that it is in no way often enough.
      FATKOPITE10
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #28 : Oct 15, 2017 12:40:53 pm »
      Henderson is some way below what you need if you are serious about your aim to be a really top team, that much is fairly obvious. Whether it's Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can or a combination of all three, we are clearly miles behind the best teams in the league in terms of midfielders. Whether we're talking Kevin De Broyne, Davide Silva, N'golo Kante, Pogba, Errikson, Wanyama, Dier etc, we are short in quality in there. Whether Henderson is the most pressing issue I'm not sure, but I suppose the fact that he's the captain puts him under the microscope.

      On transfers and transfer funds, I've never bought into the narrative that Jürgen is totally in control of transfers. It's frankly a silly notion which the evidence simply doesn't bear out, but there's no doubt in my mind that until we spend much heavier, we will struggle to keep pace with the high fliers.   

      Dier, sorry but would take hendo over him anyday
      Scotia
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      • 5,150 posts | 726 
      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #29 : Oct 15, 2017 12:58:44 pm »
      Dier, sorry but would take hendo over him anyday

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