We need to talk about Henderson...

But anyway. Derby day. Please Jordan turn up today. Don't let us down ffs. Everton are sh*te.

This is just drivel to honest.

Regardless of whether there are no other candidates for the armband or not (in your opinion) that doesn't justify Jordan Henderson having it or being a starting player for us.

We set the standard too high as fans you say? That is part of the problem and one of the reasons why we don't win trophies any more.

We who set the standards 'too high' aren't a problem. It's fans such as yourself who have now accepted mediocrity and believe that the likes of Jordan Henderson are 'important players' for us.

We aren't Stoke City or Everton FFS. We are Liverpool. We should always demand the best. We are a huge, huge club and there is no reason why we shouldn't.

Of course Stevie had a bad game from time to time but they were rare during his prime years so don't make out he often went through bad runs of form because he didn't. He constantly carried us throughout his career. Jordan Henderson is human and we all expect him to have an off game every now and then but it's far too often. His good games aren't enough for a club like Liverpool either.

It is unfair to compare Henderson to Gerrard because Stevie was undoubtfully the best of his generation but to play for Liverpool you need to consistently perform well and that's something Jordan doesn't  do. We need 7, 8, 9 out of 10 performances from him week in week out.

I suppose it boils down to opinion but I see 5/6 performances from Henderson each week. In his 7 seasons here he has probably given us a few 7s, a couple of 8s, I don't think I've ever seen a 9 out of him and I definitely haven't seen him deliver a 10. Let's not forget the occasional 2s and 3s he puts in too which occur much more than the 7s.

None of our rivals would have him if they were given the choice. No European giant are going to swarm in and bid 50m for him in January. If we wanted to sell him it would be the likes of Newcastle and Swansea coming in for him because guess what? That's the standard he is at.

Any red who wants Jordan Henderson to be a big part of our future and to remain captain then I personally question your ambition for the club. He isn't good enough and anybody who thinks he is are just kidding themselves.

Top post mate and bang on about the other clubs. Can you see City, Barcelona, Madrid, Juventus or even your Valencia's or Tottenham's having him in their midfield?

They simply wouldn't and the fact that he is not only our captain but England's too is quite embarrassing really.

In my opinion he is a decent squad option for when your Keita's etc are tired or injured.

I think he will be replaced or pushed down the pecking order from next season, maybe he is already being slowly phased out with these rotations the gaffer is doing.

So your defence of him is that he's solid, is the best of a bad bunch and you don't even know if he'll be captain in two years?

Would Gerrard be left out of a Champions League game for rotation purposes with qualification on the line? Would ANY other club leave their captain out in such a big game?

I remember Gerrard was ''rested'' against Napoli a few years ago, he comes off the bench and scores a hattrick.

would Henderson do that? No

I remember Gerrard was ''rested'' against Napoli a few years ago, he comes off the bench and scores a hattrick.

would Henderson do that? No

He would have a very good pass completed ratio though.

I remember Gerrard was ''rested'' against Napoli a few years ago, he comes off the bench and scores a hattrick.

would Henderson do that? No

In group with Steaua Bucharest and...AZ? I think it was?

He came on for Jovanovic and Spearing played that game. And it was midway through the group stages.

This is just drivel to honest.

Regardless of whether there are no other candidates for the armband or not (in your opinion) that doesn't justify Jordan Henderson having it or being a starting player for us.

We set the standard too high as fans you say? That is part of the problem and one of the reasons why we don't win trophies any more.

We who set the standards 'too high' aren't a problem. It's fans such as yourself who have now accepted mediocrity and believe that the likes of Jordan Henderson are 'important players' for us.

We aren't Stoke City or Everton FFS. We are Liverpool. We should always demand the best. We are a huge, huge club and there is no reason why we shouldn't.

Of course Stevie had a bad game from time to time but they were rare during his prime years so don't make out he often went through bad runs of form because he didn't. He constantly carried us throughout his career. Jordan Henderson is human and we all expect him to have an off game every now and then but it's far too often. His good games aren't enough for a club like Liverpool either.

It is unfair to compare Henderson to Gerrard because Stevie was undoubtfully the best of his generation but to play for Liverpool you need to consistently perform well and that's something Jordan doesn't  do. We need 7, 8, 9 out of 10 performances from him week in week out.

I suppose it boils down to opinion but I see 5/6 performances from Henderson each week. In his 7 seasons here he has probably given us a few 7s, a couple of 8s, I don't think I've ever seen a 9 out of him and I definitely haven't seen him deliver a 10. Let's not forget the occasional 2s and 3s he puts in too which occur much more than the 7s.

None of our rivals would have him if they were given the choice. No European giant are going to swarm in and bid 50m for him in January. If we wanted to sell him it would be the likes of Newcastle and Swansea coming in for him because guess what? That's the standard he is at.

Any red who wants Jordan Henderson to be a big part of our future and to remain captain then I personally question your ambition for the club. He isn't good enough and anybody who thinks he is are just kidding themselves.

Misjudgement of who Henderson is and his standing with the current manager. Henderson has nothing to do with Gerrard. Henderson is in the midfield squad....in the midfield squad, just like Can, Wijnaldum or anybody else...as such he gets no special treatment. As club captain he also gets no preferential treatment when it comes to selection.

In judging his game, and I've said this before, posters like you and plenty of others judge him on what you think he can do...and when he doesn't match up to your beliefs you call him out. You overestimate him and when he falls short of your opinion you make all kinds of unfair criticisms.

Klopp knows what he gets from Henderson and he makes his judgement on what Henderson does...not he should've of done this or that...or why he didn't play defense splitting passes or take the game by the scruff of the neck "Gerrard Style"...Klopp knows he isn't going to do that.

I'm not a huge Henderson fan but I know what he offers and I'm not holding a yardstick up and comparing him to some mythical superman midfielder.

In group with Steaua Bucharest and...AZ? I think it was?

He came on for Jovanovic and Spearing played that game. And it was midway through the group stages.

Yup, we were 1-0 down and we needed those 3 points too.

He would have a very good pass completed ratio though.

Sidewards and backwards 

Thought he played very well today except for when it came to his shooting, which continues to be poor.

Thought he played very well today except for when it came to his shooting, which continues to be poor.

Played really well up to the Everton goal. Then was clueless. Standard Henderson.

Thought he was steady but created nothing again

Nice lad. Just out of his depth. We are Liverpool and he is a Stoke level footballer.

Thought he was steady but created nothing again

That is Henderson to a tee. Neat, tidy and steady but doesn't offer much else really. Watching the City game now, you see Silva, KDB, even Fernandinho all looking to make an incisive forward thinking pass. Is that so much to ask from our skipper? He just looks uncomfortable when going forward.

Played really well up to the Everton goal. Then was clueless. Standard Henderson.

Thought this as well. For 75 minutes was comfortable, looked assured and even looked a little ambitious whether it was 0-0 or 1-0. But come the big scenario, he failed to come up with the answers summed up perfectly by that awful attempt on goal that was skied into the Kop.

I thought he was pretty average throughout, him and Milner offered nothing from midfield apart from slowing down the play.

I thought he was pretty average throughout, him and Milner offered nothing from midfield apart from slowing down the play.

When I saw the midfield of Henderson and Milner I knew there would be zero creativity. Why can't Klopp learn that as a combo they are awful.

I thought he was pretty average throughout, him and Milner offered nothing from midfield apart from slowing down the play.

Thought and said same during the match.

Again, I'm surprised to see people say he had a good game. I wonder if they're watching the same game as me sometimes.

In a game where we dominated the possession where Everton's midfield posed no threat or pressure on us, I thought again he was very basic, ordinary, average and it was just a typical Jordan Henderson like performance.

Was that a performance you'd expect from a captain in a Derby game? Not for me.

Misjudgement of who Henderson is and his standing with the current manager. Henderson has nothing to do with Gerrard. Henderson is in the midfield squad....in the midfield squad, just like Can, Wijnaldum or anybody else...as such he gets no special treatment. As club captain he also gets no preferential treatment when it comes to selection.

In judging his game, and I've said this before, posters like you and plenty of others judge him on what you think he can do...and when he doesn't match up to your beliefs you call him out. You overestimate him and when he falls short of your opinion you make all kinds of unfair criticisms.

Klopp knows what he gets from Henderson and he makes his judgement on what Henderson does...not he should've of done this or that...or why he didn't play defense splitting passes or take the game by the scruff of the neck "Gerrard Style"...Klopp knows he isn't going to do that.

I'm not a huge Henderson fan but I know what he offers and I'm not holding a yardstick up and comparing him to some mythical superman midfielder.

Lad. What the F**k are you waffling on about here?

Believe me, I do not over estimate Jordan Henderson.

I don't expect him to go on Messi like runs or score Gerrard type screamers every week, but I expect much more from a Liverpool captain and a Liverpool midfielder than what he gives us.

It says it all when I think most of us would prefer emre F***ing can over him.

It says it all when I think most of us would prefer emre f**king can over him.

It says more to me that you make the same point after every match - regardless of result.

Fact is he was nothing to do with why we didn’t win today.....

Simply not always worth a place in the team. Let alone the captain's armband.

It says more to me that you make the same point after every match - regardless of result.

Fact is he was nothing to do with why we didn’t win today.....

He was everything to do with why we didn't win today.

Yes lovren gives the pen away and yes mane should have squared his shot but they are just two moments in a 90minute football match.

I barely noticed Henderson on the pitch today. No drive, no determination, just nothing from him. All he does is collect the ball from A and pass it five yards to B.

Would we have been any worse today without Henderson on the pitch and we played with 10 men? You wouldn't even notice the difference.

Baffles me how people like yourself think he's a great captain, a great player and we should be building our team and future around him.

It's an absolute joke.

Thought and said same during the match.

Again, I'm surprised to see people say he had a good game. I wonder if they're watching the same game as me sometimes.

In a game where we dominated the possession where Everton's midfield posed no threat or pressure on us, I thought again he was very basic, ordinary, average and it was just a typical Jordan Henderson like performance.

Was that a performance you'd expect from a captain in a Derby game? Not for me.

And I wonder if your watching the same player...or were you watching that mythical superman midfielder that you think Henderson is.

Played well today, dominated from the center circle, spread the play, both sides, solid game, what you get from Henderson.

He was everything to do with why we didn't win today.

Yes lovren gives the pen away and yes mane should have squared his shot but they are just two moments in a 90minute football match.

I barely noticed Henderson on the pitch today. No drive, no determination, just nothing from him. All he does is collect the ball from A and pass it five yards to B.

Would we have been any worse today without Henderson on the pitch and we played with 10 men? You wouldn't even notice the difference.

Baffles me how people like yourself think he's a great captain, a great player and we should be building our team and future around him.

It's an absolute joke.

Tiresome.