We need to talk about Henderson...

In a different style he wouldn't look as bad. However, this attacking style just doesn't suit his "careful passing" and decision making. He has slowed us up a lot this year while also losing his passing accuracy (which shouldn't happen when you look at the passes he makes, see above). I also think he is just a shell of what he used to be physically. That sucks because he is fairly young and had a promising career in front of him before of all the injuries. I will not stop rooting my butt off for him. I like the kid and the effort he gives week end and week out. However, we need more from our mid field and our captain. I'm all for upgrading and always will be. I want to win, period.

Isn't it sweet that Henderson checks out this forum or at least a member of his family does, and to anser your question yes you most certainly must be watching a different game to everyone else, Henderson is the weak link in the team almost all attacks slow down through him and he just offers absolutely f all in attack which is kind of sh*t in an attacking team, even Matip looks better than him going forwards ffs! I'll admit that he is is ok at winning the ball back and pressing but we need a number 6 who can do much much more than just that.

Urgh. Nothing sadder than seeing someone trying to be witty and failing miserably.

Our entire attack starts with Henderson. He initiates them by giving the ball to our assist makers and goal scorers. He has more passes into the final third than anyone else in our team by some margin.

You and others and obsessed with this 'number 6' chat, trying to force players into boxes of what they 'should do'. He's performing Klopps idea of what a DM should do, not anyone else. Like I said people are not judging him by the right criteria.

I cannot fathom how you think he's the weak link when the two he plays beside are not only passing less, creating less and tackling less but doing less than Henderson in every single aspect of the game nearly.

He's missing Lallana at the moment, that's for sure. I think the entire team will be better when he comes back.

I still disagree with the premise of this thread. We don't need to talk about Henderson, we need to stop talking about him and talking about the rest of the team. We've been talking about Henderson and blaming him for everything for too long now. No matter how well he plays no matter how badly others around him play, it'll be his fault. We need to talk about the fans we have more than our captain. Too many don't have a clue what they even want never mind what they're seeing

I remember a European game a couple of seasons ago where we were awarded a penalty. Henderson was meant to take it and picked up the ball. Balotelli went over and took the ball off him and then took the pen.

Gerrard was watching as part of the TV covering the game and said that Henderson was right not to make a scene but there's no way in a million years a) Balotelli would have tried that with Gerrard and b) Gerrard would have let him

He's a nice guy and a decent squad player. But he's too passive and too cautious. He's afraid of taking risks and that is where the sideways passes come from - he's scared that if he plays the ball forward, and we lose possession, there'll be an audible groan.

However, as others have said, Klopp's approach is to work with what we've got and, when we do buy players, we buy players with potential. I'm not against FSG as they have invested a lot in making the club's finances more stable and sustainable - in terms of our gross turnover, we're still some way behind the likes of Man Utd and Real Madrid etc ... but they have begun to close that gap. Until the gap's been closed we won't be in a position to spend the sort of money that they have been able to over the past few years.

I remember a European game a couple of seasons ago where we were awarded a penalty. Henderson was meant to take it and picked up the ball. Balotelli went over and took the ball off him and then took the pen.

Gerrard was watching as part of the TV covering the game and said that Henderson was right not to make a scene but there's no way in a million years a) Balotelli would have tried that with Gerrard and b) Gerrard would have let him

He's a nice guy and a decent squad player. But he's too passive and too cautious. He's afraid of taking risks and that is where the sideways passes come from - he's scared that if he plays the ball forward, and we lose possession, there'll be an audible groan.

Spot on.

I know Mags loves Henderson but you can't absolve him of all responsibility going forward. I've no problem saying it's not his job to score or assist but it is his job to set tempo and keep the play moving above a snails pace. There was a moment in the Manc match where him and Gomez shared about 8 passes back to each other and that really did sum up Hendo. The young lad was asking his captain to take responsibility and do something with the ball and Henderson just kept returning it to him.

Same as later on in the match, Hendo has now developed a 'style' of cross, it's from the right and with a high arc, unfortunately he's so tuned into playing this cross (assuming it's been worked on in training) that he doesn't see that Cou is unmarked on the edge of the box.

Henderson's role, in this side, is to apply tempo, that can be by quite simply playing a pass firmly and quickly to one of the front 3, or the other midfielders. Taking all the pace out of the play and playing side to side football, without the threat of going in behind, or through the middle just allows teams to fall back into their standard formation and prepare for the next phase. It's about maintaining pressure, making cracks in walls and then smashing through, not allowing the building firm to come in and make all the repairs for the next sledge hammer to land.

I have seen some improvements in this regard recently but he's 27, the amount of improvement we can expect now, even under Jürgen, is likely to be minimal and if you were to ask me would I be happy to see Jordan in our side for the next 5 years, that thought is actually quite frustrating. I will say that given the right players, such as Keita and Lallana/Coutinho, around him then his deficiencies can be masked and we could still win things, but this isn't a thread about 'can we win with Henderson in the side', it's purely about him and in truth he can be upgraded upon and should be.

Which of our players would you put in ahead of him?

It's been six years since we signed Henderson.  He's had three different managers and he doesn't look any better than he did the day we signed him. 

If six years isn't enough nurturing time then what is?

What a disaster Rodgers was, by the way.  If he hadn't made Henderson captain, there's no way Henderson would be in the starting lineup today.  He might not even be at the club anymore.  We're still paying the price for Rodgers' sh*te decisions.

 

So you're saying Klopp is so weak minded he's still picking Henderson just cos Rodgers did after two years?? might as well blame Dalglish for signing Henderson in the first place then,some bad sh*te,no? Can't this thread be fu**ed off or at least be put in the player forum?

I know Mags loves Henderson but you can't absolve him of all responsibility going forward. I've no problem saying it's not his job to score or assist but it is his job to set tempo and keep the play moving above a snails pace. There was a moment in the Manc match where him and Gomez shared about 8 passes back to each other and that really did sum up Hendo. The young lad was asking his captain to take responsibility and do something with the ball and Henderson just kept returning it to him.

  I remember that. I screamed at the telly and scared the sh!te out of the dog.

 

So you're saying Klopp is so weak minded he's still picking Henderson just cos Rodgers did after two years?? might as well blame Dalglish for signing Henderson in the first place then,some bad sh*te,no? Can't this thread be fu**ed off or at least be put in the player forum?

No, he's just saying it's all Rodgers fault. He's right too, f****** Rodgers!   

I remember a European game a couple of seasons ago where we were awarded a penalty. Henderson was meant to take it and picked up the ball. Balotelli went over and took the ball off him and then took the pen.

Gerrard was watching as part of the TV covering the game and said that Henderson was right not to make a scene but there's no way in a million years a) Balotelli would have tried that with Gerrard and b) Gerrard would have let him

He's a nice guy and a decent squad player. But he's too passive and too cautious. He's afraid of taking risks and that is where the sideways passes come from - he's scared that if he plays the ball forward, and we lose possession, there'll be an audible groan.

However, as others have said, Klopp's approach is to work with what we've got and, when we do buy players, we buy players with potential. I'm not against FSG as they have invested a lot in making the club's finances more stable and sustainable - in terms of our gross turnover, we're still some way behind the likes of Man Utd and Real Madrid etc ... but they have begun to close that gap. Until the gap's been closed we won't be in a position to spend the sort of money that they have been able to over the past few years.

Imagine if he took a few more risks and it backfired, it would be like the F***ing armageddon on here

Henderson's role, in this side, is to apply tempo, that can be by quite simply playing a pass firmly and quickly to one of the front 3, or the other midfielders. Taking all the pace out of the play and playing side to side football, without the threat of going in behind, or through the middle just allows teams to fall back into their standard formation and prepare for the next phase. It's about maintaining pressure, making cracks in walls and then smashing through, not allowing the building firm to come in and make all the repairs for the next sledge hammer to land.

Check out Newcastle's 2nd goal vs Southampton and the build up play, and see the simple pass by Shelvey. Honestly, how many times have we seen Hendo play balls like that to initiate attacks? How many times does he look for players in those pockets of space? Something so simple, yet so effective that Hendo struggles to do imo.

It isn't really about his creativity from deep, it's his poor distribution that makes me wonder if it affects players like Wijnaldum and Coutinho.

* Passes backwards less than Pogba, Ramsey and Fernandinho
* Makes more forward passes per game than Pogba, Kante and Ramsey
* Creates as many chances as Kante, more than Ramsey and Fernandinho
* Makes more tackles a game than Pogba, Ramsey and Fernandinho
* Has a higher pass length average than Pogba, Kante, Ramsey and Fernandinho
* Gives away fewer fouls than Pogba, Ramsey, Kante and Fernandinho.
 
What it doesn't show here is his most impressive stat. He has recovered the ball 65 times for us this season. By far the most of any Liverpool player. Kante is constantly praised for this aspect of his game over and over and he's made 4 more recoveries this season. Fernandinho has only 49.

Like I said, I don't know what people have been watching but I'm pretty confident that I'm seeing an excellent player and the stats agree with me. Say stats don't tell the whole story all you want, but fact is I've got my story, my opinion and evidence to back it up... The Henderson bashers have their story, their opinion and what...? A grudge held over 6 years and a yearning to say 'told you so' at every single second based on nonsense.

Could he add a few more goals and assists to his game, yea. But so could the rest of our team, and fact is that if we had a centre forward that could score 20+ a season it wouldn't matter. If we had advanced midfielders who could make 20+ assists a season, it wouldn't matter. Yet we point the finger at the DM who's clearly doing his job and say 'do our forwards job too or you're sh*t' or 'do our advanced play makers jobs too or you're sh*t'.

I don't get it. We're pointing the finger at maybe the one F***ing player we have who's doing his job well. In the Premier League our highest assist maker has 2 why is no one having a go at our wingers or 'false 9' who's meant to be creating these chances? Our top goalscorer has 4 and only one of our central midfielders has even scored, have a F***ing guess who that midfielder was by the way. Still sh*t though right. Any proof of that? Nah just sh*t innit. Pathetic.

I remember that. I screamed at the telly and scared the sh!te out of the dog.

Infuriating and I honestly think because Henderson has played so long in our midfield that many of us get lulled into that acceptance of some of his play. I mean when I was giving him 8s/8.5s recently (you too) and then you get questioned on it as some lads probably rightly did you think "what do I really want from a DLPM.

I know you're joking about with the "F***ing Rodgers" above, but I've seen the case for Henderson made by the managers that he's played for and who haven't replaced him.

Jürgen
Brendan
Kenny

Permanently picked for England (I'll be honest, I pay that little attention to international footy that I don't really know what our options other than him are). Is there something we're not seeing that perhaps Mags is, or is it that level of detachment that means the nice lad who works his arse off can be separate from the frustration wagon that we see in a red shirt that has us scaring the sh*t out of our family pets?

All any of us can do is say what we personally see and from my perspective if we had Alonso etc in that role our attackers, given their brilliant movement, would have a bloody field day.

Spot on.

I know Mags loves Henderson but you can't absolve him of all responsibility going forward. I've no problem saying it's not his job to score or assist but it is his job to set tempo and keep the play moving above a snails pace. There was a moment in the Manc match where him and Gomez shared about 8 passes back to each other and that really did sum up Hendo. The young lad was asking his captain to take responsibility and do something with the ball and Henderson just kept returning it to him.

Same as later on in the match, Hendo has now developed a 'style' of cross, it's from the right and with a high arc, unfortunately he's so tuned into playing this cross (assuming it's been worked on in training) that he doesn't see that Cou is unmarked on the edge of the box.

Henderson's role, in this side, is to apply tempo, that can be by quite simply playing a pass firmly and quickly to one of the front 3, or the other midfielders. Taking all the pace out of the play and playing side to side football, without the threat of going in behind, or through the middle just allows teams to fall back into their standard formation and prepare for the next phase. It's about maintaining pressure, making cracks in walls and then smashing through, not allowing the building firm to come in and make all the repairs for the next sledge hammer to land.

I have seen some improvements in this regard recently but he's 27, the amount of improvement we can expect now, even under Jürgen, is likely to be minimal and if you were to ask me would I be happy to see Jordan in our side for the next 5 years, that thought is actually quite frustrating. I will say that given the right players, such as Keita and Lallana/Coutinho, around him then his deficiencies can be masked and we could still win things, but this isn't a thread about 'can we win with Henderson in the side', it's purely about him and in truth he can be upgraded upon and should be.

This every day. Spot on Luke.

* Passes backwards less than Pogba, Ramsey and Fernandinho
* Makes more forward passes per game than Pogba, Kante and Ramsey

You do realise that a lot of this is much more down to our system, the CBs are instructed to pass to Henderson, therefore he is given possession much more than those you list. His forward passes are very often to the wingbacks/fullbacks who have advanced and are unmarked. They aren't penetrative passes and they aren't tempo inducing passes. Again the example I listed before will give him 4 forward passes to Gomez, were they really doing anything other than passing responsibility, no.

* Creates as many chances as Kante, more than Ramsey and Fernandinho

Behave, Kante and Fernandinho? As for Ramsey I haven't watched Arsenal this season so can't comment on him.

* Makes more tackles a game than Pogba, Ramsey and Fernandinho

Yep, he's improving on this to be fair to him. He's still not up to standard for a real 6, but improving.

* Has a higher pass length average than Pogba, Kante, Ramsey and Fernandinho

Again Mags, this has to be taken into context, because so often this pass is out wide, so the distance it travels is maybe 40 yards, but has it accomplished anything, no!

* Gives away fewer fouls than Pogba, Ramsey, Kante and Fernandinho.

Yes, because his style of tackling is very much to harass the player off the ball rather than to commit and this also means that Henderson is far less likely to win a challenge he begins unfavoured for. This is why many of us call for a proper 6 to play there such as Mascherano. Will he commit far more fouls, damn right he will, will he give away the odd penalty, damn right he will but he'll also rescue many more situations that are already looking like we're going to concede, Henderson will not. When did he last do a barnstorming tackle (considering he does so many of them) which saved a goal, when has he come sliding in to block an almost definite goal, how about tactical fouls, he just doesn't have it in him. He's a fair minded, fair player and honestly in this position you need someone street smart and streetwise who know when to tip the scales back in our favour, by fair means or foul.

I think there's a lot of sense (and evidence to back it) in Mags' argument, and some emotional truth in his opponents'.

I agree with him that Hendo is one of our few lads who is pretty much doing the job he's there to do effectively.  And why does JK keep putting him in there if he isn't?  I also agree with the stats he quotes.  Imagine our midfield functioning without him.  I can't. Not without bringing in some other player who we don't actually have.

Against Mags' argument, I can only come up with this:
Hendo could do with picking out a few quick, eye-of-the-needle passes to the attacking players each game, and he occasionally does, although not with the frequency/success of someone like DeBruyne (amazing performance yesterday).  But then they are different players in different positions.  Yet I can't help feeling that Hendo SHOULD look for these passes (quick, direct, penetrating) more often.   There ARE times when he seems to choose safe, (sideways / backwards) passes over more adventurous ones.   

But then...

We face a lot of teams who 'park the bus.'  Unless the defence-splitting pass is clearly on and has a good chance of finding its target (it usually hasn't, against packed defences) Hendo is best not attempting it - because if it failed we'd lose possession with the bulk of our midfield and attack in no position to defend the resulting counter-attack.  So he concentrates on keeping possession.

And that, my friends, is why JK puts him there.  Because he's good at that.

In my opinion, he's in a no-win situation with the fans when we don't win the game.  When we do, he's often cited as one of the MOTM contenders.   But he keeps to JKs script despite the stick he gets.

Solution?   We need a f*****g striker. 

Stats are one thing but not everything...by a long shot. I remember getting excited about the fact that when we signed Jermaine Pennant back in 06 it was well documented that he had completed more crosses into the box than any other player in the league!

The fact that it was often the wrong option to take and would rarely find a Red shirt was neither here nor there...

Stats are one thing but not everything...by a long shot. I remember getting excited about the fact that when we signed Jermaine Pennant back in 06 it was well documented that he had completed more crosses into the box than any other player in the league!

The fact that it was often the wrong option to take and would rarely find a Red shirt was neither here nor there...

I agree about stats mate, largely.  But I also think we judge Hendo on uncertain criteria.  I mean on this thread he's been described as a DM, a no.6, a DLPM, a Central Midfielder, a keeper of possession, a setter of the tempo...    Do any of us know what JK asks him to do?  No.  We guess, based on his position in the (fluid) formation. 
I'm not gonna lay into him, he's our captain and for my money our lads play better when we back them, not sack them.

You do realise that a lot of this is much more down to our system, the CBs are instructed to pass to Henderson, therefore he is given possession much more than those you list. His forward passes are very often to the wingbacks/fullbacks who have advanced and are unmarked. They aren't penetrative passes and they aren't tempo inducing passes. Again the example I listed before will give him 4 forward passes to Gomez, were they really doing anything other than passing responsibility, no.

Behave, Kante and Fernandinho? As for Ramsey I haven't watched Arsenal this season so can't comment on him.

Yep, he's improving on this to be fair to him. He's still not up to standard for a real 6, but improving.

Again Mags, this has to be taken into context, because so often this pass is out wide, so the distance it travels is maybe 40 yards, but has it accomplished anything, no!

Yes, because his style of tackling is very much to harass the player off the ball rather than to commit and this also means that Henderson is far less likely to win a challenge he begins unfavoured for. This is why many of us call for a proper 6 to play there such as Mascherano. Will he commit far more fouls, damn right he will, will he give away the odd penalty, damn right he will but he'll also rescue many more situations that are already looking like we're going to concede, Henderson will not. When did he last do a barnstorming tackle (considering he does so many of them) which saved a goal, when has he come sliding in to block an almost definite goal, how about tactical fouls, he just doesn't have it in him. He's a fair minded, fair player and honestly in this position you need someone street smart and streetwise who know when to tip the scales back in our favour, by fair means or foul.

Good arguments in here mate, and I do agree, our system does lend to some of these. What I don't get, and sorry to highlight just one bit here, is the bit I've put in bold. He does create more chances than them, and they play the same position... So what's the issue?

And again this 'number 6' chat comes up. There is no such thing as a 'real number 6' in my opinion. There are positions and then sub sections of styles. Henderson is a defensive midfielder and his role is closest to that of a Half Back. Drop deep, win the ball, keep ticking over possession. He's not a Pirlo style DM nor a Mascherano style DM either, somewhere in the middle.

I just don't see how the arguments against him are valid, I've not seen evidence of any of it being correct.

Good arguments in here mate, and I do agree, our system does lend to some of these. What I don't get, and sorry to highlight just one bit here, is the bit I've put in bold. He does create more chances than them, and they play the same position... So what's the issue?

And again this 'number 6' chat comes up. There is no such thing as a 'real number 6' in my opinion. There are positions and then sub sections of styles. Henderson is a defensive midfielder and his role is closest to that of a Half Back. Drop deep, win the ball, keep ticking over possession. He's not a Pirlo style DM nor a Mascherano style DM either, somewhere in the middle.

I just don't see how the arguments against him are valid, I've not seen evidence of any of it being correct.

Well this is where we differ because I would put Henderson in the mould of a DLPM, much like we had with Gerrard under Rodgers. Did I expect Gerrard to be as good defensively as Kante or Fernandinho, nope, but he made up for it in spades by the assists and sheer drive he'd give to our forward line by his passing. He still would throw in the odd barnstorming tackle, he'd still knock Fellaini's head off when he felt that punishment needed dishing out and this is where Henderson's key characteristics get lost, because he really doesn't have any.

Kante is a destroyer, sure he pops up all over the place because he's got a horse's heart transplanted in his body or some sh*t, but his principle role is to stop the opposition having opportunities to get to the back four. Same with Fernandinho, although he's just nowhere near as good and honestly I wouldn't want us to target him even if we could buy him. Ramsay, I've no idea what's gone on with him Mags, I used to rate him, watched Arsenal a couple of times early on this season, once against us too and I didn't really notice him much other than MotD pointing out he was in the opposition penalty area all the time, so I'm not sure what position he's currently playing.

I can't give you a list of players who I'd compare Hendo to now because I honestly don't watch that much footy away from LFC these days. What I want is either an Alonso type as a DLPM, a Mascherano if we're going down the destroyer role or a blend of the two. Now I understand that this sets the bar incredibly high but even the characteristics of these players can be found in others, he doesn't have to be a direct mould of either but bring to the table something I can rubber stamp and rely upon will turn up in games.

Well this is where we differ because I would put Henderson in the mould of a DLPM, much like we had with Gerrard under Rodgers. Did I expect Gerrard to be as good defensively as Kante or Fernandinho, nope, but he made up for it in spades by the assists and sheer drive he'd give to our forward line by his passing. He still would throw in the odd barnstorming tackle, he'd still knock Fellaini's head off when he felt that punishment needed dishing out and this is where Henderson's key characteristics get lost, because he really doesn't have any.

Kante is a destroyer, sure he pops up all over the place because he's got a horse's heart transplanted in his body or some sh*t, but his principle role is to stop the opposition having opportunities to get to the back four. Same with Fernandinho, although he's just nowhere near as good and honestly I wouldn't want us to target him even if we could buy him. Ramsay, I've no idea what's gone on with him Mags, I used to rate him, watched Arsenal a couple of times early on this season, once against us too and I didn't really notice him much other than MotD pointing out he was in the opposition penalty area all the time, so I'm not sure what position he's currently playing.

I can't give you a list of players who I'd compare Hendo to now because I honestly don't watch that much footy away from LFC these days. What I want is either an Alonso type as a DLPM, a Mascherano if we're going down the destroyer role or a blend of the two. Now I understand that this sets the bar incredibly high but even the characteristics of these players can be found in others, he doesn't have to be a direct mould of either but bring to the table something I can rubber stamp and rely upon will turn up in games.

Ah that's very interesting. I think his role is about as far away from Gerrard's role as is possible. I think it's his job to make sure we always have the ball, and he's excellent at it, the fact that he recovers the ball about as much as Kante only proves that. I think it's the other 2 centre midfielders role to create chances and they are failing miserably at it.

Can is competent at playing Henderson's role, I would like to see more rotation in games where Henderson is let off his leash. It's happened maybe one or two times this year, his showing against Leicester being one but he's very disciplined and you can see he's following his remit until Klopp gives him more freedom to express. Wish he'd allow him that freedom more often.

I think he does exactly what the boss wants from him. It's frustrating to watch, mostly because I think he is capable of being more expansive.

* Passes backwards less than Pogba, Ramsey and Fernandinho
* Makes more forward passes per game than Pogba, Kante and Ramsey
* Creates as many chances as Kante, more than Ramsey and Fernandinho
* Makes more tackles a game than Pogba, Ramsey and Fernandinho
* Has a higher pass length average than Pogba, Kante, Ramsey and Fernandinho
* Gives away fewer fouls than Pogba, Ramsey, Kante and Fernandinho.
 
What it doesn't show here is his most impressive stat. He has recovered the ball 65 times for us this season. By far the most of any Liverpool player. Kante is constantly praised for this aspect of his game over and over and he's made 4 more recoveries this season. Fernandinho has only 49.

Like I said, I don't know what people have been watching but I'm pretty confident that I'm seeing an excellent player and the stats agree with me. Say stats don't tell the whole story all you want, but fact is I've got my story, my opinion and evidence to back it up... The Henderson bashers have their story, their opinion and what...? A grudge held over 6 years and a yearning to say 'told you so' at every single second based on nonsense.

Could he add a few more goals and assists to his game, yea. But so could the rest of our team, and fact is that if we had a centre forward that could score 20+ a season it wouldn't matter. If we had advanced midfielders who could make 20+ assists a season, it wouldn't matter. Yet we point the finger at the DM who's clearly doing his job and say 'do our forwards job too or you're sh*t' or 'do our advanced play makers jobs too or you're sh*t'.

I don't get it. We're pointing the finger at maybe the one f**king player we have who's doing his job well. In the Premier League our highest assist maker has 2 why is no one having a go at our wingers or 'false 9' who's meant to be creating these chances? Our top goalscorer has 4 and only one of our central midfielders has even scored, have a f**king guess who that midfielder was by the way. Still sh*t though right. Any proof of that? Nah just sh*t innit. Pathetic.

To start off with it, I've often said before that Henderson playing as our most 'DM' isn't really an issue and that some of the criticism directed towards him is, in my opinion, largely undeserved. As you say, he does what Klopp asks of him and he does it fairly well, not excellent though. You can't deny he does have a problem with setting the tempo and that, even though his forward passing has improved, it still is an issue.

What you can't do, is use a bunch of statistics, compare them to a few midfield players and then say you have evidence to back up your opinion. Other than Fernandinho, none of them even play in a midfield three or play a role even close to Henderson's. The formations they play in, the tactics and their positioning in general is completely different compared to how Henderson is asked to play. The only one who comes somewhat close in terms of his role, is Fernandinho (and even his role is different) and as you can tell, their statistics are indeed fairly similar.

Statistics like "completed most passes into the final 3rd of the pitch" and "average pass lenght" are flawed. Of course Henderson completes a lot of passes into the final 3rd. Given how far up the pitch we play and how high his position usually is, most diagonal passes to our full backs, who very often will find themselves in the final 3rd, will count as "a forward pass into the final 3rd". That statistic is flawed, certainly for his position in our system. His passing has indeed become more adventurous and he will indeed try to play a vertical pass more often, but his decision making of when to play the vertical pass, isn't good. (Look at his pass to Sturridge against Newcastle which leads to their goal, it's not the main cause, but it starts it all.) In the United game I recall a few occasions where Coutinho found some space centrally, showed for the ball, but Henderson refused to play it forward because he's not comfortable playing that type of ball.

Here's a comparison to a player who also plays a high intensity game and plays as the most 'DM' of his team. They also play a false 9 very often (Mertens). The system is different, but his role is similar.



Look at his forward passes, that's what we need more of from Henderson. If you'd add in pass completion % for both, Henderson is at 78%, Jorginho is at 92%, even when playing these forward passes. The lenght of his passes doesn't matter, forward passes can be relatively short, as long as it's a pass that goes through an opposition line, it's fine. With Coutinho and Wijnaldum we have two midfielders who are perfectly capable of receiving these forward passes in tight spaces, but we end up not using them because Henderson doesn't play it vertically into these spaces often enough. Most of his forward passes are either to the wide fullbacks or long diagonals for Mane and Salah to run on.

With all that said... Does Henderson do his job? He does. Can we improve on him? We can. Should we improve on him? We should. With Can set to leave next season, that only leaves Henderson as the one DM. Keita could play there, but that would limit him and his ability too much I think. I'm hoping Klopp then goes looking to bring someone in for that position, preferrably someone who can replace Henderson in the starting eleven. A midfield of for example Jorginho, Keita and Lallana would set the league on fire. Wijnaldum, Henderson and Alex as stand ins is very good strenght in depth.

To start off with it, I've often said before that Henderson playing as our most 'DM' isn't really an issue and that some of the criticism directed towards him is, in my opinion, largely undeserved. As you say, he does what Klopp asks of him and he does it fairly well, not excellent though. You can't deny he does have a problem with setting the tempo and that, even though his forward passing has improved, it still is an issue.

What you can't do, is use a bunch of statistics, compare them to a few midfield players and then say you have evidence to back up your opinion. Other than Fernandinho, none of them even play in a midfield three or play a role even close to Henderson's. The formations they play in, the tactics and their positioning in general is completely different compared to how Henderson is asked to play. The only one who comes somewhat close in terms of his role, is Fernandinho (and even his role is different) and as you can tell, their statistics are indeed fairly similar.

Statistics like "completed most passes into the final 3rd of the pitch" and "average pass lenght" are flawed. Of course Henderson completes a lot of passes into the final 3rd. Given how far up the pitch we play and how high his position usually is, most diagonal passes to our full backs, who very often will find themselves in the final 3rd, will count as "a forward pass into the final 3rd". That statistic is flawed, certainly for his position in our system. His passing has indeed become more adventurous and he will indeed try to play a vertical pass more often, but his decision making of when to play the vertical pass, isn't good. (Look at his pass to Sturridge against Newcastle which leads to their goal, it's not the main cause, but it starts it all.) In the United game I recall a few occasions where Coutinho found some space centrally, showed for the ball, but Henderson refused to play it forward because he's not comfortable playing that type of ball.

Here's a comparison to a player who also plays a high intensity game and plays as the most 'DM' of his team. They also play a false 9 very often (Mertens). The system is different, but his role is similar.



Look at his forward passes, that's what we need more of from Henderson. If you'd add in pass completion % for both, Henderson is at 78%, Jorginho is at 92%, even when playing these forward passes. The lenght of his passes doesn't matter, forward passes can be relatively short, as long as it's a pass that goes through an opposition line, it's fine. With Coutinho and Wijnaldum we have two midfielders who are perfectly capable of receiving these forward passes in tight spaces, but we end up not using them because Henderson doesn't play it vertically into these spaces often enough. Most of his forward passes are either to the wide fullbacks or long diagonals for Mane and Salah to run on.

With all that said... Does Henderson do his job? He does. Can we improve on him? We can. Should we improve on him? We should. With Can set to leave next season, that only leaves Henderson as the one DM. Keita could play there, but that would limit him and his ability too much I think. I'm hoping Klopp then goes looking to bring someone in for that position, preferrably someone who can replace Henderson in the starting eleven. A midfield of for example Jorginho, Keita and Lallana would set the league on fire. Wijnaldum, Henderson and Alex as stand ins is very good strenght in depth.

What a lovely world class post! I couldn't agree more with this.