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      We need to talk about Henderson...

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      HScRed1
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #736: Sep 03, 2018 02:25:00 pm
      I donā€™t see Henderson being placed into one single spot in the midfield three - I think the great thing about him is his versatility and adaptablity which enables him to play in any of the three roles ( the high one being the less favourite ) - I think he is quick enough over the ground to cover the full backs , he can sit and pick the ball up from the CB and then either just keep it moving through the phases or play that long ball into a channel or wide to the full backs feet. He is clever with his movement and passes , he doesnā€™t shirk tackles and gets stuck in , his head doesnā€™t drop when the going gets tough. He also does have a great long shot but for some reason doesnā€™t seem to trust himself enough to have more shots

      Thatā€™s a fair synopsis I donā€™t think Henderson has the positional awareness to play that role in that he is used to rampaging and hunting for the ball.
      The instance where Becker makes a great save he was out of position and a simple ball from Madison I think plays in Grey I believe. That was just one example.

      But along with his conservative passing, Gini is also guilty of being too negative on the ball bu the way, my biggest big bear is his inability to turn with the ball on the 1/2 turn.

      In my opinion because of his natural athleticism he being better off the ball than on, further up the pitch in place of Milner is a better option for him.

      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #737: Sep 03, 2018 02:31:13 pm
      Thatā€™s a fair synopsis I donā€™t think Henderson has the positional awareness to play that role in that he is used to rampaging and hunting for the ball.
      The instance where Becker makes a great save he was out of position and a simple ball from Madison I think plays in Grey I believe. That was just one example.

      But along with his conservative passing, Gini is also guilty of being too negative on the ball bu the way, my biggest big bear is his inability to turn with the ball on the 1/2 turn.

      In my opinion because of his natural athleticism he being better off the ball than on, further up the pitch in place of Milner is a better option for him.

      I think thatā€™s also fair - yep agree that because he is ā€œeagerā€ to be involved in the play that when he is supposed to be sitting deep protecting he can get caught out when he goes looking for the ball. I think him and Fabinho will create a pretty good partnership there when Fabinho sits more and Henderson plays the ā€œlink and continuity ā€œ player in that I guess 8 role , and then you have Keita the higher of the three. That for me will be our first choice midfield three
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #738: Sep 03, 2018 02:50:16 pm
      But along with his conservative passing, Gini is also guilty of being too negative on the ball bu the way, my biggest big bear is his inability to turn with the ball on the 1/2 turn.

      That was aimed at Hendo right?  Because Gini has no problems doing that.

      I do agree with Gini being too negative at times, but how much was that down to Brighton and CP being so defensive? He was very good vs West ham.

      Thatā€™s a fair synopsis I donā€™t think Henderson has the positional awareness to play that role in that he is used to rampaging and hunting for the ball.

      In my opinion because of his natural athleticism he being better off the ball than on, further up the pitch in place of Milner is a better option for him.

      Couldn't agree more. If people re-watch the matches we have played, you will see Hendo is more ball focused and tends to leave his area a lot more than Wijnaldum does when he is a 6. And another interesting stat that I read (can't remember where), Wijnaldum has only been dribbled past once in 3 matches as a 6, Hendo 3 times in 70 mins vs Brighton.

      And yeah, Hendo has always been better off the ball than on it.
      HScRed1
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #739: Sep 03, 2018 02:54:37 pm
      That was aimed at Hendo right?  Because Gini has no problems doing that.

      I do agree with Gini being too negative at times, but how much was that down to Brighton and CP being so defensive? He was very good vs West ham.

      Couldn't agree more. If people re-watch the matches we have played, you will see Hendo is more ball focused and tends to leave his area a lot more than Wijnaldum does when he is a 6. And another interesting stat that I read (can't remember where), Wijnaldum has only been dribbled past once in 3 matches as a 6, Hendo 3 times in 70 mins vs Brighton.

      And yeah, Hendo has always been better off the ball than on it.

      Yeah the bolded was aimed at Hendo, Gini is one of the best technically.

      waltonl4
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #740: Sep 03, 2018 02:59:42 pm
      Win rate with Henderson is 65% winning just 33% when he isn't playing (Anfield Wrap).England 28 games unbeaten with Henderson playing 22 wins 6 Draws. Why on earth would anyone play him with those stats.
      As we tend not to play through the middle is it any wonder he plays the ball left or right to get the wing backs into the game.
      If he wasn't doing his job well Klopp would not pick him simple as that and I trust JĆ¼rgen more than anyone else in Football
       
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #741: Sep 03, 2018 03:43:02 pm
      Win rate with Henderson is 65% winning just 33% when he isn't playing (Anfield Wrap).England 28 games unbeaten with Henderson playing 22 wins 6 Draws. Why on earth would anyone play him with those stats.
      As we tend not to play through the middle is it any wonder he plays the ball left or right to get the wing backs into the game.
      If he wasn't doing his job well Klopp would not pick him simple as that and I trust JĆ¼rgen more than anyone else in Football

      Our win rate is 33% without Henderson?

       :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

      I'm calling absolute bullshit on that.

      Every time he doesn't play we seem to F***ing win!

      England have also lost games with Henderson in the team? So again, calling absolute bullshit on that.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #742: Sep 03, 2018 04:53:32 pm
      Win rate with Henderson is 65% winning just 33% when he isn't playing (Anfield Wrap).England 28 games unbeaten with Henderson playing 22 wins 6 Draws. Why on earth would anyone play him with those stats.
      As we tend not to play through the middle is it any wonder he plays the ball left or right to get the wing backs into the game.
      If he wasn't doing his job well Klopp would not pick him simple as that and I trust JĆ¼rgen more than anyone else in Football

      From Echo

      With Henderson: 2017/18 Premier League

      Watford- 3-3 (D)
      Crystal Palace- 1-0 (W)
      Arsenal- 4-0 (W)
      Manchester City- 5-0 (L)
      Leicester City- 2-3 (W)
      Newcastle United- 1-1 (D)
      Manchester United - 0-0 (D)
      Tottenham Hotspur- 4-1 (L)
      Huddersfield Town- 3-0 (W)
      Southampton- 3-0 (W)
      Chelsea- 1-1 (D)
      Brighton Hove & Albion 1-5 (W)
      Everton 1-1 (D)
      Bournemouth- 0-4 (W)
      Arsenal 3-3 (D) * forced off through injury 12 minutes in

      Games Played: 15
      Goals conceded: 21
      Goals conceded per game: 1.4
      Goals scored: 33
      Goals scored per game: 2.2
      Top six opposition faced: 6

      P15: W7 D6 L2 - Win percentage: 47 %


      Without Henderson: 2017/18

      Burnley- 1-1 (D)
      West Ham- 1-4 (W)
      Stoke City 0-3 (W) * appeared for the final minute of play
      West Brom 0-0 (D)
      Swansea City 5-0 (W)
      Leicester City 2-1 (W)

      Games played: 6
      Goals conceded: 3
      Goals conceded per game: 0.5
      Goals scored: 15
      Goals scored per game: 2.5
      Top six opposition faced: 0

      P6: W4 D2 L0- Win percentage: 67%

      I challenge you to find more recent stats from a source as respected as Echo.

      The 33% is just from the 2013/2014 season. That was the only season he was good in. We lacked depth at that time as well, who was Henderson's backup? Joe Allen? It's amazing how you twisted facts. Are you Henderson's agent? Also, 65+33 is 98. What happened to the other 2%?
      « Last Edit: Sep 03, 2018 05:09:22 pm by Ribapuru »
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #743: Sep 03, 2018 05:09:13 pm
      Just signed a new long term contract, if you don't like that then tough sh*t
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #744: Sep 03, 2018 05:11:54 pm
      I've just told you that when he's played well I will say so. I'm not the one who's stubborn with my own opinion. It's his supporters, people like you, who fail to admit when he's played poorly - something that happens very frequently. If I think Henderson has played well then I will say so, but it's very rare. He does nothing that an average premiership midfielder couldn't do for us. Is henderson any better than neves at wolves? Not in my opinion.

      I don't have any agenda against him I'm just sick of the excuses made for him. Wijnaldum, Can, Lucas all played better than him in that role. He's under no restrictions or specific orders from Klopp otherwise those three players would have played the exact same as him, which they didn't, and at times gave motm performances.

      What has England getting to the wc semi final got to do with it? They were in a group with Panama and Tunisia for fucks sake. As soon as they came up against a decent side in Croatia they got slapped. Henderson got bossed off the pitch by modric just like he did in Ukraine a few weeks earlier. 

      Your point was he's picked by England managers as if that's some great achievement and my argument is who's his competition? Name them. Name the CMs who have gotten caps recently. It's the likes of Livermore as I said. The England squad now is a joke and ten years ago your very best Jordan Henderson isn't even making the squad.

      Well two of the midfielders klopp has bought was this summer and he's bedding both into the team. Fabinho isn't even making the squads and Keita was surprisingly benched. When both are fully fit and up to speed then I don't see Henderson getting a game. Why else would klopp sign them?

      We have finished fourth in consecutive seasons and now klopp has decided that midfield was the area in which we needed to improve on if we are going to progress further and he spent 100m on signing two cm's. So all this 'klopp loves Henderson' sh*te might not necessarily be true.

      We saw on Saturday how poor the midfield is without Keita, and whether you admit it a large part of that was down to Jordan Henderson.

      https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolfc.com/amp/news/first-team/314962-jordan-henderson-new-liverpool-contract

      Anymore proof that the manager sees him as key to the squad ?
      Ribapuru
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #745: Sep 03, 2018 05:12:19 pm
      Just signed a new long term contract, if you don't like that then tough sh*t
      I don't think that many people have a problem that he's a Liverpool player. It's more a problem with him being captain and in first xi.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #746: Sep 03, 2018 05:13:23 pm
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #747: Sep 03, 2018 05:17:28 pm
      Amazing how people who say they don't have an agenda against Henderson keep on banging on about him
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #748: Sep 03, 2018 05:18:43 pm

      Everyone is key to the squad - manager said the same when Fabinho and Kieta signed - itā€™s a squad game now not a first 11 game
      waltonl4
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #749: Sep 03, 2018 05:32:15 pm
      Amazing how people who say they don't have an agenda against Henderson keep on banging on about him

      used to be wearing a Red shirt was enough not now apparently. Not even when the Manager clearly rates him some think they know better.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #750: Sep 03, 2018 05:51:20 pm
      Everyone is key to the squad - manager said the same when Fabinho and Kieta signed - itā€™s a squad game now not a first 11 game
      That's clearly not true. We've got plenty of fringe players. I'm not saying put Henderson in the reserves. He's worth a place on the bench this season. The long term contract doesn't mean he's first xi. One word, Mignolet.

      If Hendo was as good as people make out.. we'd have had offers from other teams. Name one team in the top six, in any European league that's shown any interest in him? This Henderson contract is most likely because there is pressure to renew contracts after Can walked for free.
      « Last Edit: Sep 03, 2018 05:58:34 pm by Ribapuru »
      Dmasta
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #751: Sep 03, 2018 06:00:24 pm
      Just signed a new long term contract, if you don't like that then tough sh*t

      Just saw the news and popped into the thread to see the scenes it's caused. Looks like I'll have to come back later. :lmao:
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #752: Sep 03, 2018 06:01:48 pm
      That's clearly not true. We've got plenty of fringe players. I'm not saying put Henderson in the reserves. He's worth a place on the bench this season. The long term contract doesn't mean he's first xi. One word, Mignolet.

      If he was any good.. we'd have had offers from other teams. Name one team in the top six, in any European league that's shown any interest in him? This Henderson contract is most likely because there is pressure to renew contracts after Can walked for free.

      Sorry but your post as per most of yours in regards Henderson is nonsense, you now rate a player based on red top media nonsense ? That it scraping the barrel that really is. The manager clearly wants Henderson to stay and a longer term contract has been signed - the same as Mane , Firmino , Salah , Lovren and indeed any player that Klopp sees as the immediate future of the squad

      We had no offers for - Salah , Mane , Firmino , VVD or indeed any player of note - does that mean by your statement they arenā€™t any good ?
      Ribapuru
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #753: Sep 03, 2018 06:05:53 pm
      Sorry but your post as per most of yours in regards Henderson is nonsense, you now rate a player based on red top media nonsense ? That it scraping the barrel that really is. The manager clearly wants Henderson to stay and a longer term contract has been signed - the same as Mane , Firmino , Salah , Lovren and indeed any player that Klopp sees as the immediate future of the squad

      We had no offers for - Salah , Mane , Firmino , VVD or indeed any player of note - does that mean by your statement they arenā€™t any good ?
      We're a football club, we really weren't going to not extend his contract. It would have expired in 2020. This just means teams would have to put an offer in, instead of having a 25m rated player go free. We handed a contract to Coutinho recently, where is he now? VVD recently signed a new Southampton contract.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #754: Sep 03, 2018 06:13:58 pm
      We're a football club, we really weren't going to not extend his contract. It would have expired in 2020. This just means teams would have to put an offer in, instead of having a 25m rated player go free. We handed a contract to Coutinho recently, where is he now? VVD recently signed a new Southampton contract.

      So you are thinking salah , Firmino and Mane are on their way out
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #755: Sep 03, 2018 06:16:13 pm
      So you are thinking salah , Firmino and Mane are on their way out

      Do you just quote people and comment random sh*t all the time?
      Swab
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #756: Sep 03, 2018 06:19:45 pm
      used to be wearing a Red shirt was enough not now apparently. Not even when the Manager clearly rates him some think they know better.

      It's all just an act to stir up sh*t and try to get pluses for being "controversial" by a few.
      Not all by any means, but you'll notice there are those who engage politely, with reasonable posts and statements, and those who just throw sh*t about for the sake of it.

      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #757: Sep 03, 2018 06:20:33 pm
      Do you just quote people and comment random sh*t all the time?

      When people try and justify agendas with complete bollocks then yep Iā€™ll comment.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #758: Sep 03, 2018 06:27:20 pm
      When people try and justify agendas with complete bollocks then yep Iā€™ll comment.

      So somebody basically says signing contracts in football means little nowadays, all it does is give the club some security because look at the way can left for nothing and then look at how coutinho signed a five deal but left a few months later, and then you quote and say so you think mane salah and firmino are going then?

      Well you do that then mate. But you look a bit of a tit.

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