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      We need to talk about Henderson...

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      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #345: Nov 08, 2017 10:36:41 am
      Surely itā€™s clear to see how much Henderson divides opinion.
      And that is good and healthy, from a forum perspective.

      Here's where I am at: I, genuinely, believe JĆ¼rgen picks, his teams, on merit. JĆ¼rgen picks Hendo because he sees him as his best option, there on merit. I also believe that JĆ¼rgen will drop him if needs be.

      If I didn't believe that then, take my word for it; I would be angry at JĆ¼rgen and vocal as F**k about it but...

      Here's the rub for me: there are many on here who are vocal as F**k in professing their "love"/"trust" for JĆ¼rgen who clearly don't believe he can be trusted to pick, his best team, on merit. Otherwise they wouldn't be squealing like stuck pigs every time Jordan gets picked.

      Weird that - unless... 🐑🐑🐑 🤔
      « Last Edit: Nov 08, 2017 11:07:35 am by bad boy bubby »
      HScRed1
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #346: Nov 08, 2017 01:57:48 pm
      I wouldn't be sure that being "Poor aerially" is a prerequisite for a Centre Half mate. 😊

      Joking aside, I get what you meant but...

      "Poor aerially"? Is he really? Hmm...

      Henderson (according to the offal) has won 70.6% of all his aerial duels.

      Klavan and Gomez (the armchair aide's alternative to Lovren) - 55.2% & 50%, respectively. [Emre Can - only 47.1% btw]

      Strangely enough Lovren scores 71.8% and, as you would expect, Matip scores highest with a whopping 84.4%.

      Just for some perspective; Virgil van Dijk  yeah... that Virgil van Dijk scores 67.4%. 😕

      As ever; people's perceptions of Jordan tend to cloud their judgement. Thankfully a lot of what folk say out loud, in the hope it's right, can be checked. 👍

      Stats and damn lies come to mind.
      Makes you wonder what Klopp sees in VVD. :)

      If Hendo was so good aerially he might chip in with the odd headed goal or even help out defensively?

      I think comparing Hendo in midfield competing against relatively smaller midfielders to what CB's have to cope with is not exactly a like for like measure.

      FL Red
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #347: Nov 08, 2017 02:30:31 pm
      Surely itā€™s clear to see how much Henderson divides opinion. We donā€™t have the same argument about anyone in the team and for a Captain that says it all.

      Heā€™s an ok squad player, but he should be upgraded ASAP.

      I'd wager to say that Can, Gini and Milner also divide opinion a good deal...and maybe even Moreno (who I'm still cautiously optimistic about but  I feel like he's going to let us down at some point).
      Scotia
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #348: Nov 08, 2017 02:38:35 pm
      I'd wager to say that Can, Gini and Milner.......and maybe even Moreno

      Hell yes, nah, ish and oh yes......
      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #349: Nov 08, 2017 05:06:08 pm
      Makes you wonder what Klopp sees in VVD.
      The same thing he sees in Henderson probably. 😉

      Just to be clear, it was YOU who said aerial ability was a "prerequisite" NOT me. 😂
      HScRed1
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #350: Nov 08, 2017 05:21:52 pm
      The same thing he sees in Henderson probably. 😉

      Just to be clear, it was YOU who said aerial ability was a "prerequisite" NOT me. 😂


      Aerial ability in my opinion is a prerequisite to be a decent CB, and it you who is comparing the stats of a midfielder to a CB!

      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #351: Nov 08, 2017 06:45:21 pm
      I wouldn't be sure that being "Poor aerially" is a prerequisite for a Centre Half mate. 😊

      Joking aside, I get what you meant but...

      "Poor aerially"? Is he really? Hmm...

      Henderson (according to the offal) has won 70.6% of all his aerial duels.

      Klavan and Gomez (the armchair aide's alternative to Lovren) - 55.2% & 50%, respectively. [Emre Can - only 47.1% btw]

      Strangely enough Lovren scores 71.8% and, as you would expect, Matip scores highest with a whopping 84.4%.

      Just for some perspective; Virgil van Dijk  yeah... that Virgil van Dijk scores 67.4%. 😕

      As ever; people's perceptions of Jordan tend to cloud their judgement. Thankfully a lot of what folk say out loud, in the hope it's right, can be checked. 👍

      101% of stats mean nothing-much
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #352: Nov 08, 2017 06:52:34 pm
      Aerial ability in my opinion is a prerequisite to be a decent CB, and it you who is comparing the stats of a midfielder to a CB!


      Did I? Is that what you saw?

      What actually happened:

      * I gave you Henderson's stats re: aerial duels won.

      * Quite separately I then gave you, so that you may compare, the same stats [aerial duels] for all our Centre Backs under JĆ¼rgen. Those stats [Klavan & Gomez]  appeared to show that aerial ability wasn't a prerequisite in JĆ¼rgen's mind. Otherwise he wouldn't have picked them; right?

      * I gave the stats (separated by brackets) of Emre Can, by way of a comparison with another LFC midfielder. He [Emre Can] was presumably playing against the same "smaller" players; yes?
      (Although how any-F***ing-one can tell if the duels were against wee Aguero or lanky Matic, F**k knows. Lies, damned lies and just guessing; I suppose.  😁) I digress...

      * I also gave VvD's stats by way of a comparison,  like for like, with JĆ¼rgen's current Centre Backs. Only Joel really stood out as having your prerequisite for that position.  😉

      * Although you clearly believed I did; if you read the post, at no point did I actually compare Henderson with any of our Centre Backs. I merely offered the Club's own stats to refute your assertion [based on guessing] that Henderson was poor in the air and that aerial ability, in  CB, was a prerequisite (for this club).

      Now... whilst I am truly sorry that the Club's own stats don't fit your narrative, I'm still adamant that, if they had, then you would never had mentioned "stats and lies". Am I right?  Go on you know I'm right. 😉😄

      So anywho... 'Henderson: what does JĆ¼rgen see that 'we don't?'  Discuss...

      « Last Edit: Nov 08, 2017 07:03:47 pm by bad boy bubby »
      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #353: Nov 08, 2017 06:53:16 pm
      And the other 37% are made up. 😊

      HScRed1
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #354: Nov 08, 2017 09:45:14 pm
      Did I? Is that what you saw?

      What actually happened:

      * I gave you Henderson's stats re: aerial duels won.

      * Quite separately I then gave you, so that you may compare, the same stats [aerial duels] for all our Centre Backs under JĆ¼rgen. Those stats [Klavan & Gomez]  appeared to show that aerial ability wasn't a prerequisite in JĆ¼rgen's mind. Otherwise he wouldn't have picked them; right?

      * I gave the stats (separated by brackets) of Emre Can, by way of a comparison with another LFC midfielder. He [Emre Can] was presumably playing against the same "smaller" players; yes?
      (Although how any-f**king-one can tell if the duels were against wee Aguero or lanky Matic, f**k knows. Lies, damned lies and just guessing; I suppose.  😁) I digress...

      * I also gave VvD's stats by way of a comparison,  like for like, with JĆ¼rgen's current Centre Backs. Only Joel really stood out as having your prerequisite for that position.  😉

      * Although you clearly believed I did; if you read the post, at no point did I actually compare Henderson with any of our Centre Backs. I merely offered the Club's own stats to refute your assertion [based on guessing] that Henderson was poor in the air and that aerial ability, in  CB, was a prerequisite (for this club).

      Now... whilst I am truly sorry that the Club's own stats don't fit your narrative, I'm still adamant that, if they had, then you would never had mentioned "stats and lies". Am I right?  Go on you know I'm right. 😉😄

      So anywho... 'Henderson: what does JĆ¼rgen see that 'we don't?'  Discuss...



      Erm ok. Still no idea what you are trying to show if it's not that the stats would suggest Henderson's aerial duels won were good enough to show he can play as a CB.

      BTW if using stats it would be fairer to use a bigger and fairer sample.

      e.g. VVD has hardly played this season so if you compare last seasons data where he played in more games VVD dominates all of our CB's in all parameters not just aerial duels.

      Maybe Jurgens not as mad as I initially thought  :D




      lester76
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #355: Nov 09, 2017 04:09:01 am
      I actually think think that Hendo could be trained into a pretty adequate defensive midfielder.
      He offers little going forward, loves a side wards pass and the occasional cross fielder, can track back well and enjoys a tackle.
      Problem is that itā€™s a square peg in a round hole.
      Personally want to see Grujic get more games and Can to be utterly binned. Donā€™t get the over evaluation of emre.
      pug
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #356: Nov 09, 2017 10:28:29 pm
      I wouldn't be sure that being "Poor aerially" is a prerequisite for a Centre Half mate. 😊

      Joking aside, I get what you meant but...

      "Poor aerially"? Is he really? Hmm...

      Henderson (according to the offal) has won 70.6% of all his aerial duels.

      Klavan and Gomez (the armchair aide's alternative to Lovren) - 55.2% & 50%, respectively. [Emre Can - only 47.1% btw]

      Strangely enough Lovren scores 71.8% and, as you would expect, Matip scores highest with a whopping 84.4%.

      Just for some perspective; Virgil van Dijk  yeah... that Virgil van Dijk scores 67.4%. 😕

      As ever; people's perceptions of Jordan tend to cloud their judgement. Thankfully a lot of what folk say out loud, in the hope it's right, can be checked. 👍
      I always feel that the fans who support Henderson , do so out of a misguided allegiance to a player promoted above his station . Reading posters talking up stats on Henderson is deeply depressing. Are there really fans out there who watch him play and think " What a player "  Any player that constantly needs stats to back him up is limited.
      Look, we're stuck with him for the time being but it's HIM not us who needs to start proving the doubters ( of which there is many ) wrong.
      I can't see it happening.

      AZPatriot
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #357: Nov 09, 2017 11:00:13 pm
      I always feel that the fans who support Henderson , do so out of a misguided allegiance to a player promoted above his station . Reading posters talking up stats on Henderson is deeply depressing. Are there really fans out there who watch him play and think " What a player "  Any player that constantly needs stats to back him up is limited.
      Look, we're stuck with him for the time being but it's HIM not us who needs to start proving the doubters ( of which there is many ) wrong.
      I can't see it happening.



      Welcome back littleshite....sorry to see you leave so soon.
      Magillionare
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #358: Nov 19, 2017 03:05:02 am
      I F***ing love the silence in this thread.



      Can't wait until we lose and it's all Hendo's fault again and we can all come out and play the who's the moron game again.
      Scottbot
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #359: Nov 19, 2017 07:14:57 am
      Had a decent game yesterday. He always looks a better player when his isn't asked to play in a midfield three with Can and Gigi, we only ever need two from those three. The third midfielder should always be Coutinho or Lallana when he is fit.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #360: Nov 19, 2017 09:25:43 am
      I f**king love the silence in this thread.



      Can't wait until we lose and it's all Hendo's fault again and we can all come out and play the who's the moron game again.

      What are you on about? So youā€™re saying all his doubters are starting to believe in him now? I seriously doubt it. Plus we would be pretty F***ing sh*t fans to come on to this thread and dig somone out after a team victory.
      JackSparrow
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #361: Nov 19, 2017 09:40:54 am
      I f**king love the silence in this thread.



      Can't wait until we lose and it's all Hendo's fault again and we can all come out and play the who's the moron game again.
      you actually want us to lose? Henderson is not actually Liverpool standard in about half our fans opinion. I'm not convinced in him myself either, I'd rather be wrong and win than right and lose. Just so happens that we won and Henderson didn't do an awful lot again. You must be disappointed about us winning yesterday then. I wonder who liked your post, probably a Manchester United fan. You bumped this thread after a win so any Hendo slagging off is on you. He performed average Southampton but don't we have Chelsea next?
      « Last Edit: Nov 19, 2017 09:48:06 am by JackSparrow »
      Scotia
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #362: Nov 19, 2017 09:58:19 am
      you actually want us to lose? Henderson is not actually Liverpool standard in about half our fans opinion. I'm not convinced in him myself either, I'd rather be wrong and win than right and lose. Just so happens that we won and Henderson didn't do an awful lot again. You must be disappointed about us winning yesterday then. I wonder who liked your post, probably a Manchester United fan. You bumped this thread after a win so any Hendo slagging off is on you. He performed average Southampton but don't we have Chelsea next?

      I liked his post and I did so because I believe Mags is right.

      Henderson is the ā€œgo toā€ for far too many at the first sign of anything other than abject capitulation from the opposition.

      We field 11 players but heā€™s the first criticised and the last praised.

      Yet manager after manager picks him pretty much whenever heā€™s fit. Go figure.......

      bad boy bubby
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #363: Nov 19, 2017 10:10:54 am
      I wonder who liked your post, probably a Manchester United fan.


      You "liked" someone who supports the Captain of LFC; JĆ¼rgen's Captain? You dirty Manc. 🙄😄

      Listen; we all know that there are some fucktards about but F**k me. 😂😂

      Littleface; is that you? 😕

      Scotia
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #364: Nov 19, 2017 10:22:03 am
      You "liked" someone who supports the Captain of LFC; JĆ¼rgen's Captain? You dirty Manc. 🙄😄


      I know. Guilty as charged.

      Iā€™m all over them Mancs me - I can hide it no longer...... :lmao:

      Some folks just defy logic  :f_doh:
      Magillionare
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #365: Nov 19, 2017 10:45:18 am
      Plus we would be pretty F***ing sh*t fans to come on to this thread and dig somone out after a team victory.

      It's happening on a constant basis
      JackSparrow
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #366: Nov 19, 2017 10:52:37 am
      You "liked" someone who supports the Captain of LFC; JĆ¼rgen's Captain? You dirty Manc. 🙄😄

      Listen; we all know that there are some fucktards about but f**k me. 😂😂

      Littleface; is that you? 😕

      you aren't the smartest crayon right BBB? Mag was pretty much wanting us to lose. How anybody can like that or defend it is ridiculous. If he's a rival fan it's fine, is he?

      Mag is a bigger fan of Henderson than Liverpool if he wants us to lose to prove a point, what point that is I'm unsure.

      Maybe mag doesn't support Liverpool, if he is a rival fan I apologize.

      Who is littleface? I've been asked if I was Rinaburu or something already, what is with all these strange questions?

      I want Liverpool to win every game regardless of Henderson's performance.
      « Last Edit: Nov 19, 2017 11:04:10 am by JackSparrow »
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: We need to talk about Henderson...
      Reply #367: Nov 19, 2017 11:06:10 am
      Have we won anything yet with him being the captain? That's the reality.

      That's a really sh*t argument.

      Because if you want "reality" then Jordan Henderson has more winners medals in his Liverpool career than Mascherano, Torres, Coutinho, Mane and many others.

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