We need to talk about Henderson...

One of our players did a longball to Van Dijk, who made a horrendous pass to Allison after that. Anybody know who the longball backpass to Van Dijk was from, that playmaked Leicester's goal yesterday?

Keita > Hendo every day of the week.

Was doing my head with his sideway passes.

I'd love to ask Sadio and Salah who they would prefer in that role.

Saw both of them numerous times ready to take off down the wing only to stop as Hendo got the ball and slowed everything down by passing it sideways.

Good squad player but Keita has to start before him.

Christ another spanner who is missing the point

How exactly do you think my argument has “crumbled”

Yes all three England players played in the Match and they lost - that was the point because your dense mate was bleating on about how well they are playing despite no pre season.

Have you let the manager know that he is doing it wrong ? Surely if you have spotted such a grave error in how a manager looks after his players you should get right onto the phone to him 

Or are you just another dullard with an over inflated ego who believes his opinion to be fact

If you are fully understanding of the fitness of premiership footballers then I expect you must be a fully qualified fitness coach - but we all know you arent and are just peddled a clear baseless agenda on a player the manager clearly rates

What's your point?

Watford away is a tough game at any point of the season, especially now when they're flying and full of confidence.

Where was your post about the Tottenham boys after they smashed united at old Trafford and played them off the park with some of the best football that's been played so farthis season?

One of our players did a longball to Van Dijk, who made a horrendous pass to Allison after that. Anybody know who the longball backpass to Van Dijk was from, that playmaked Leicester's goal yesterday?

That just smacks of vindictiveness - if a £75 mil CB and a £70mil GK can’t sort out that situation between them they shouldn’t be playing Prem Footballer - it wasn’t the best pass back from VVD but it was shocking from Alisson - he is to blame , looking to find fault with Henderson is just pure vindictiveness

What's your point?

Watford away is a tough game at any point of the season, especially now when they're flying and full of confidence.

Where was your post about the Tottenham boys after they smashed united at old Trafford and played them off the park with some of the best football that's been played so farthis season?

The point is quite clear - you can’t point at the Spurs players and use them as an example of players not needed a pre season or a rest after a long season. People are trying to suggest that Henderson is sitting on the bench because he isnt good enough when it’s clear that the manager is easing him into the season after he had a long season before. Just because Spurs are playing their World Cup players already doesn’t mean everyone else should be

Keita > Hendo every day of the week.

Was doing my head with his sideway passes.

I'd love to ask Sadio and Salah who they would prefer in that role.

Saw both of them numerous times ready to take off down the wing only to stop as Hendo got the ball and slowed everything down by passing it sideways.

Good squad player but Keita has to start before him.

His sideways and backwards passing allowed Leicester to push forward and press us. It boxed us in our own half at times and we couldn't get out.

I'm no fan Hendo and don't want him in the team but if he's going to play then he needs to trust the front three far more with the ball. Not every pass to them has to be a clip over the defence or played into space, just fizz the ball into their feet because all three of them are incredibly strong and good at shielding the ball. Even if they do get tackled then it's a lot less dangerous losing the ball in their positions than playing the ball to Trent for example who may get tackled or lose possession in the RB area. Playing the ball forward means the opposition can't push forward on us too.

Gini is much better on the ball than Henderson and Ginis decision making is much better too. I thought the difference was massive when Henderson came back into the team and it was also clearly evident how much we missed Keita too.

I spent all last season saying that once Keita comes in then people will see the difference between an average midfielder in Hendo and a great one in Keita and already after just four games it's blatantly obvious.

Henderson had a very poor game on Saturday yet there's still people going all out to defend him. If they rate him then fine but when those people start making excuses for why he played crap or when they even deny that he did play crap then they lose all credibility for me and their agenda just becomes obvious.

The point is quite clear - you can’t point at the Spurs players and use them as an example of players not needed a pre season or a rest after a long season. People are trying to suggest that Henderson is sitting on the bench because he isnt good enough when it’s clear that the manager is easing him into the season after he had a long season before. Just because Spurs are playing their World Cup players already doesn’t mean everyone else should be

But the argument was that Henderson has looked sluggish since returning from England but the Spurs boys havent.

You then asked how did the Spurs boys get on at Watford.

So I'm asking what's your point? Just because they lost a difficult fixture do you think that justifies your argument or something? Even if Tottenham had a fully fit squad with everybody on form and at 100%, Watford is still a difficult place to go with no guarantee of a win.

Last week Tottenham were flying and got a great result at old Trafford so your argument just looks stupid in truth.

But the argument was that Henderson has looked sluggish since returning from England but the Spurs boys havent.

You then asked how did the Spurs boys get on at Watford.

So I'm asking what's your point? Just because they lost a difficult fixture do you think that justifies your argument or something? Even if Tottenham had a fully fit squad with everybody on form and at 100%, Watford is still a difficult place to go with no guarantee of a win.

Last week Tottenham were flying and got a great result at old Trafford so your argument just looks stupid in truth.

Each player has differing levels of fitness , the Spurs have come straight back and straight into the team without any real pre season - I suspect later in the season that will come back to bite them. Firmino has come back a bit sluggish as well , fingers are being pointed at them. The Spurs players yesterday looked sluggish and maybe that’s because they haven’t had a proper rest.

Watford is a tough away game and Spurs struggled and lost - Leicester is a tough away game and we had to battle and won yet people are looking to point the fingers at one player

The point is clear - The manager rates the player , he is easing that player into the season and he will play a key role in th rest of the season , it seems some of his own fans are going to look to slate him anytime he plays - seen the same with Kuyt in the past and also Lucas yet these players keep getting selected by his manager both domestically and internationally- so maybe all this talk about Henderson not being good enough is people not understanding what the managers want from the player , if the player isn’t doing what’s needed or required then he wouldn’t be selected

The thing about Henderson which will divide people is his ability on the ball. he simply cannot offer us the best outlet, especially if put under pressure in midfield. The other problem he creates, is that his slow decision making often impacts the roles of the other 2 midfielders beside him. It was to me no coincidence that both Gini and Milner looked poor against Leicester, as it appeared that both were unsure of their positional requirements in midfield. What frustrated me also was how he often didnt show for the ball to help with a build up in play, he just went hiding at times. Either Trent or the CB's were often needing to play it along the sides or force a pass to the forwards which completely bypassed our midfield because we didnt have a Deep playmaker.
I think Henderson is best suited when given space to take his time and pick out passes, alternatively he should be a sub coming on once the team is in the lead to help with closing down attackers etc.
I am not writing him off, however we could also try him next to Keita and Milner to see if that brings about a difference...but at the moment the Hendo/ Milner/ Gini trio is not the most creative or fluid.

Each player has differing levels of fitness , the Spurs have come straight back and straight into the team without any real pre season - I suspect later in the season that will come back to bite them. Firmino has come back a bit sluggish as well , fingers are being pointed at them. The Spurs players yesterday looked sluggish and maybe that’s because they haven’t had a proper rest.

Watford is a tough away game and Spurs struggled and lost - Leicester is a tough away game and we had to battle and won yet people are looking to point the fingers at one player

The point is clear - The manager rates the player , he is easing that player into the season and he will play a key role in th rest of the season , it seems some of his own fans are going to look to slate him anytime he plays - seen the same with Kuyt in the past and also Lucas yet these players keep getting selected by his manager both domestically and internationally- so maybe all this talk about Henderson not being good enough is people not understanding what the managers want from the player , if the player isn’t doing what’s needed or required then he wouldn’t be selected

I think it's the exact opposite if anything.

I'm no fan of Henderson but if he's had a good game then I'll say so in the post match thread. I admit that's rare though but it would be very interesting to see how many times Henderson has won the MOTM poll on this forum. He's been here 7-8 years and I'll be very surprised if it's more than 5. This is our captain we're talking about here yet he never walks off the pitch being our best player. Not even close.

When he's had a poor game, like Saturday for example, you won't get any of his hardcore supporters admitting so. They look for any old excuse to defend him and that line 'if he's good enough for klopp then he's good enough for me' is a classic.

Benteke was good enough for Brendan, he wasn't for me.  Charlie Adam was good enough for Kenny, he wasn't for me. Skrtel was good enough for Rafa, he wasn't for me. Could go on forever.

When he's had a bad game I'll comment on it. It's his small selection of fans who have the agenda who are obsessed and determined in proving he is some top player and will use any old excuse to try and justify it.

The most recent one being he can do anything in training but refuses to on match day because he's instructed not too by Jürgen. I keep seeing this Jürgen instructions shout and how people don't see or understand the role Henderson plays, but in the first three games Gini played in that role/position and looked a million times better and wasn't sticking to those strict instructions that Henderson is apparently under. Strange that.

But it’s not just the one manager who has played him , that’s three now and the dame amount of international managers

Going on about MoTM awards highlights a lot of the issues - he isn’t a highlight guy , he isn’t all action like Gerrard , he isn’t going to do the spectacular stuff which gets people on the edge of their seat - but what he does do is the ugly hard work that coaches and managers appreciate but won’t be spectacular

Salah , Mane etc they will get the headlines and the MoTM but a lot of there performances need the work done behind them

Henderson will give a lot of 7/10 games because he won’t do the spectacular stuff but the manager will pick him each and every time

As for the captaincy - not sure the relevance , Unless you think the best players should be captain - I think we have a few on the pitch but Henderson is the club captain for more than his ability with the ball at his feet

As for all the training stuff - no idea what that’s all about but Henderson is a International Premiership player and his manager rates him highly and it’s a manager that isn’t afraid to get rid of players if they don’t fit his system and style of play

But it’s not just the one manager who has played him , that’s three now and the dame amount of international managers

Going on about MoTM awards highlights a lot of the issues - he isn’t a highlight guy , he isn’t all action like Gerrard , he isn’t going to do the spectacular stuff which gets people on the edge of their seat - but what he does do is the ugly hard work that coaches and managers appreciate but won’t be spectacular

Salah , Mane etc they will get the headlines and the MoTM but a lot of there performances need the work done behind them

Henderson will give a lot of 7/10 games because he won’t do the spectacular stuff but the manager will pick him each and every time

As for the captaincy - not sure the relevance , Unless you think the best players should be captain - I think we have a few on the pitch but Henderson is the club captain for more than his ability with the ball at his feet

As for all the training stuff - no idea what that’s all about but Henderson is a International Premiership player and his manager rates him highly and it’s a manager that isn’t afraid to get rid of players if they don’t fit his system and style of play

What do you see as Henderson’s strengths playing as the deepest midfielder.

But it’s not just the one manager who has played him , that’s three now and the dame amount of international managers

Going on about MoTM awards highlights a lot of the issues - he isn’t a highlight guy , he isn’t all action like Gerrard , he isn’t going to do the spectacular stuff which gets people on the edge of their seat - but what he does do is the ugly hard work that coaches and managers appreciate but won’t be spectacular

Salah , Mane etc they will get the headlines and the MoTM but a lot of there performances need the work done behind them

Henderson will give a lot of 7/10 games because he won’t do the spectacular stuff but the manager will pick him each and every time

As for the captaincy - not sure the relevance , Unless you think the best players should be captain - I think we have a few on the pitch but Henderson is the club captain for more than his ability with the ball at his feet

As for all the training stuff - no idea what that’s all about but Henderson is a International Premiership player and his manager rates him highly and it’s a manager that isn’t afraid to get rid of players if they don’t fit his system and style of play

Well Kenny signed him, so he was always going to play him. He wanted to play him as a RW originally and whip balls in to Carroll with downing doing the same from the left.

Brendan came in and Henderson was used to do gerrards donkey work because his legs had gone at that point. I saw a comment a page or two back about that season where we almost won the league and apparently Henderson was immense. He had a decent season, every player in the team did, but he was nowhere near our best player. Suarez Sturridge Gerrard coutinho Sterling and even flanno performed at a higher level than what Jordan did.

Jürgen came in and gave everybody in the squad a chance. Even Moreno and Mignolet got a second shot at things. Jürgen didn't storm in and start throwing his weight around unsettling the players and squad, he sat back and had a look at things. You say he rates Henderson highly but he's signed four players for big money who play in the midfield three and he was also actively looking for a number 10 too.  I suspect when Fabinho is up to speed with things then we will be seeing a lot less of Henderson (why else would we sign him) but let's wait and see.

As for England, well, this is the worst squad of English players that there has probably ever been. Apart from Kane there isn't one world class player there. Who's Hendersons competition? Livermore and Delph? Jesus Christ. One things for certain if you put the current Henderson up against the England players of ten years ago then he isn't even making the squad never mind making the first 11.

Nobody expects him to be a Steven Gerrard. James Milner isn't a Steven Gerrard either but he gives motm type performances quite often. Lucas was the same. More recently Gini has given them too, in fact, the first three games of the season I would go as far as saying Wijnaldum has been our best player and that's without doing anything spectacular.

I disagree on Henderson consistently giving 7/10 type performances. It's a lot more like 5-6 with the occasional 7 thrown in. Very rarely he will give an 8 and I don't think I've ever seen him reach as high as a 9. But there we go.

It's not me who talks about what he can do in training, it's his supporters. I keep reading over and over that he is under strict instructions playing as the DM but other players have played in that position under Klopp and weren't under the same restrictions. That argument is therefore void.

That just smacks of vindictiveness - if a £75 mil CB and a £70mil GK can’t sort out that situation between them they shouldn’t be playing Prem Footballer - it wasn’t the best pass back from VVD but it was shocking from Alisson - he is to blame , looking to find fault with Henderson is just pure vindictiveness

I must admit,  Henderson backpass  was accurate. Too bad it was an idiotic choice and resulted in the play Watford scored from. Henderson was took off shortly after. Kieta came on and we looked better.

Apologies on my side if you thought I was twisting your words, no intention of doing so. And I just thought you watched the whole of pre-season, so fair enough if you have only seen 1 match!

Initially, I thought Wijnaldum, Fabinho and Keita would be the ideal midfield trio, but after seeing how Milner has performed in a more football minded midfield, I think having that more direct industrial player in midfield gives us a better balance and more impetus in attacks.

For me, I still think Hendo is the better player over Milner as the 8, and I am still holding out for that 13/14 Hendo. To this day, I am still baffled as to why he never continued to play that role. I still think Hendo will be our main 6 because I believe Klopp considers him a good/excellent reliable player, but obviously, I want more than that and believe Wijnaldum or Fabinho can take us to the next level

Having been over this ground before, I'd just say to be wary of getting bogged down by fixed positions.

I think it highly likely that Wijnaldum is being given games as the 6 (ish) so that in game rotation is smoother and leads to fewer problems.
Imagine if you will, 3 players rotating, in game, who can all play 6 and 8 well.

I must admit,  Henderson backpass  was accurate. Too bad it was an idiotic choice and resulted in the play Watford scored from. Henderson was took off shortly after. Kieta came on and we looked better.

 

Christ, you don't even know who we played a couple of days ago?

Jesus wept.

Well Kenny signed him, so he was always going to play him. He wanted to play him as a RW originally and whip balls in to Carroll with downing doing the same from the left.

Brendan came in and Henderson was used to do gerrards donkey work because his legs had gone at that point. I saw a comment a page or two back about that season where we almost won the league and apparently Henderson was immense. He had a decent season, every player in the team did, but he was nowhere near our best player. Suarez Sturridge Gerrard coutinho Sterling and even flanno performed at a higher level than what Jordan did.

Jürgen came in and gave everybody in the squad a chance. Even Moreno and Mignolet got a second shot at things. Jürgen didn't storm in and start throwing his weight around unsettling the players and squad, he sat back and had a look at things. You say he rates Henderson highly but he's signed four players for big money who play in the midfield three and he was also actively looking for a number 10 too.  I suspect when Fabinho is up to speed with things then we will be seeing a lot less of Henderson (why else would we sign him) but let's wait and see.

As for England, well, this is the worst squad of English players that there has probably ever been. Apart from Kane there isn't one world class player there. Who's Hendersons competition? Livermore and Delph? Jesus Christ. One things for certain if you put the current Henderson up against the England players of ten years ago then he isn't even making the squad never mind making the first 11.

Nobody expects him to be a Steven Gerrard. James Milner isn't a Steven Gerrard either but he gives motm type performances quite often. Lucas was the same. More recently Gini has given them too, in fact, the first three games of the season I would go as far as saying Wijnaldum has been our best player and that's without doing anything spectacular.

I disagree on Henderson consistently giving 7/10 type performances. It's a lot more like 5-6 with the occasional 7 thrown in. Very rarely he will give an 8 and I don't think I've ever seen him reach as high as a 9. But there we go.

It's not me who talks about what he can do in training, it's his supporters. I keep reading over and over that he is under strict instructions playing as the DM but other players have played in that position under Klopp and weren't under the same restrictions. That argument is therefore void.

I think what the post shows is the desperation to find something to be critical about Henderson and I think it’s clear you are entrenched in your dislike of him - just like I’m prob entrenched in my opinion that he isn’t a bad player and someone that is valued by his manager. Yep Klopp has bought a number of CM’s but Henderson still has the arm band and still plays each week - what does that say when he spends that amount of money yet Henderson still plays. Klopp has had plenty of chance to sell him or replace him - he hasn’t for some reason and he has been at the club for three years now

As for England - maybe he wouldn’t have got in the team a decade ago but then that team didn’t reach the semi of the World Cup - a team with Henderson in did

But I don’t see your opinion of him changing and fair enough on that we are all entitled to one - but the one that counts is the manager and he seems to like him and rate him

What do you see as Henderson’s strengths playing as the deepest midfielder.

This is a good article about Henderson

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/alloutfootball.co.uk/is-jordan-henderson-the-most-underrated-player-in-the-premier-league/amp/

And another

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/394874/jordan-henderson-liverpool-england-stat/amp/

Also

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/09/jordan-henderson-mature-leader-england-croatia-world-cup-semi-final

This is a good article about Henderson

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/alloutfootball.co.uk/is-jordan-henderson-the-most-underrated-player-in-the-premier-league/amp/

And another

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/talksport.com/football/394874/jordan-henderson-liverpool-england-stat/amp/

Also

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/09/jordan-henderson-mature-leader-england-croatia-world-cup-semi-final

Sorry but what do those articles state - he is a good lad has incredible stamina - there is no tactical analysis of what strengths he has to play as a DM.

PS Don’t misunderstand I’m not having a go just curious of your views.
I know plenty go overboard on here re Hendo.

Played 4, won 4, still top of the league, those crying about anything else, F**k off and get a grip you gang of wool cu*ts, we've had a great start to the season, so whoever is being miserable, knock it off shitbags!!

Think we've reached the FSG Out stage of circling with this topic of discussion now. Some will always think he's good for the team, some will never rate him, and that's it.

All I know is I need him to start 29 of the remaining 34 league matches this season (barring injury) or i lose my bet with Harrismo and have to send him a bottle of Molson by post. 

I think what the post shows is the desperation to find something to be critical about Henderson and I think it’s clear you are entrenched in your dislike of him - just like I’m prob entrenched in my opinion that he isn’t a bad player and someone that is valued by his manager. Yep Klopp has bought a number of CM’s but Henderson still has the arm band and still plays each week - what does that say when he spends that amount of money yet Henderson still plays. Klopp has had plenty of chance to sell him or replace him - he hasn’t for some reason and he has been at the club for three years now

As for England - maybe he wouldn’t have got in the team a decade ago but then that team didn’t reach the semi of the World Cup - a team with Henderson in did

But I don’t see your opinion of him changing and fair enough on that we are all entitled to one - but the one that counts is the manager and he seems to like him and rate him

I've just told you that when he's played well I will say so. I'm not the one who's stubborn with my own opinion. It's his supporters, people like you, who fail to admit when he's played poorly - something that happens very frequently. If I think Henderson has played well then I will say so, but it's very rare. He does nothing that an average premiership midfielder couldn't do for us. Is henderson any better than neves at wolves? Not in my opinion.

I don't have any agenda against him I'm just sick of the excuses made for him. Wijnaldum, Can, Lucas all played better than him in that role. He's under no restrictions or specific orders from Klopp otherwise those three players would have played the exact same as him, which they didn't, and at times gave motm performances.

What has England getting to the wc semi final got to do with it? They were in a group with Panama and Tunisia for fucks sake. As soon as they came up against a decent side in Croatia they got slapped. Henderson got bossed off the pitch by modric just like he did in Ukraine a few weeks earlier. 

Your point was he's picked by England managers as if that's some great achievement and my argument is who's his competition? Name them. Name the CMs who have gotten caps recently. It's the likes of Livermore as I said. The England squad now is a joke and ten years ago your very best Jordan Henderson isn't even making the squad.

Well two of the midfielders klopp has bought was this summer and he's bedding both into the team. Fabinho isn't even making the squads and Keita was surprisingly benched. When both are fully fit and up to speed then I don't see Henderson getting a game. Why else would klopp sign them?

We have finished fourth in consecutive seasons and now klopp has decided that midfield was the area in which we needed to improve on if we are going to progress further and he spent 100m on signing two cm's. So all this 'klopp loves Henderson' sh*te might not necessarily be true.

We saw on Saturday how poor the midfield is without Keita, and whether you admit it a large part of that was down to Jordan Henderson.

Sorry but what do those articles state - he is a good lad has incredible stamina - there is no tactical analysis of what strengths he has to play as a DM.

PS Don’t misunderstand I’m not having a go just curious of your views.
I know plenty go overboard on here re Hendo.

I don’t see Henderson being placed into one single spot in the midfield three - I think the great thing about him is his versatility and adaptablity which enables him to play in any of the three roles ( the high one being the less favourite ) - I think he is quick enough over the ground to cover the full backs , he can sit and pick the ball up from the CB and then either just keep it moving through the phases or play that long ball into a channel or wide to the full backs feet. He is clever with his movement and passes , he doesn’t shirk tackles and gets stuck in , his head doesn’t drop when the going gets tough. He also does have a great long shot but for some reason doesn’t seem to trust himself enough to have more shots