Spurs 4-1 Liverpool: In game and Post match discussion

I'm not a fan of Migs (Who Is) but today I can not  blame him in anyway for the goals (First two) that was all Lovren

Wlel if you're going to run out like he did for the first goal then you have to get the ball.

But this is Mignolet so of course he couldn't manage that.

You could put a sack of potatoes in goal and it'd perform better than that useless gimp.

Been saying for years now that Mignolet and Lovren aren't good enough.  I don't think the rest of them are the world's greatest but it has to be disconcerting playing with them in the team for the rest of the players.

Wouldn't surprise me if next to someone decent that Matip could really do something for us.

Get Mignolet out of the team and stick Karius in for an extended period.  He might come good he might not.  Mignolet, I guarantee you, will never be good.  Reina was forced out years ago to be replaced by Mignolet (Brilliant that one 👏) and he's still a better keeper than the Belgian.

As for Lovren, he talks a good game - that's about it.  In the same bracket as the Kozma's and Piechnik's in my book.  Say what you want about Klavan - but Klavan doesn't go for that soft sh*te header on the halfway line.

I'd be more than happy to take the consequences of not seeing Migs or Lovren play for us again.

The weird thing is I don't think we played too badly today apart from the individual mistakes.  That 4-1 was definitely flattering for Spurs as we give them such simple gifts.  Example - I genuinely can't remember the last time an opposition keeper ever flapped so badly at one of our crosses and gave us a goal or a CB decided to so woefully miss a halfway line header and give our forward a 25 yard head start.

Chequebook needs busting out in January and it needs to go on the defence.

Shout out to Moreno and Salah for being our best players.  Rest of them were 5s or 6s.

Hopefully the game didn't ruin the day for you.

When even Djimi is pointing it out, you know we've got problems in our defence!!

https://twitter.com/Djimi_Traore19/status/922121946925473792

The weird thing is I don't think we played too badly today apart from the individual mistakes.  That 4-1 was definitely flattering for Spurs as we give them such simple gifts.  Example - I genuinely can't remember the last time an opposition keeper ever flapped so badly at one of our crosses and gave us a goal or a CB decided to so woefully miss a halfway line header and give our forward a 25 yard head start.

Totally agree, it flattered Spurs. They can say they weren't forced to up the gears but I really thought they would be there for the taking today. That was almost a years worth of defensive errors in one game.

At the 10 minute mark Lovren, Mignolet and Can should have walked to the Bench and taken themselves off!

Could have honestly been 4-4 that game.

4 errors cost us 4 goals

Their keeper saves Couts shot, Milners low shot into the corner and I know there was another one somewhere there but can't for the life of me remember which one. So we keep the shots coming but today we ran into the opposite of what we have and that's a good F***ing Goalkeeper.

I bet we tw*t these cu*ts at Anfield in the reverse fixture where we have Sadio and Adam back.

I usually don't do these and I'm not going to bother with ratings seeing as none of them really deserve any / it's hard to put a number on a performance, but here goes.

Mignolet: He's a nice guy, that's about the only positive thing I can say about him. I've been putting Karius in my own line-up since about the start of the season now. Karius needs a run of games until the end of the season, it's the only way to see where we really stand with him. Other than the Bournemouth game, I honestly don't even think he has been all that bad for us. He was brilliant in the Bundesliga and he fits our game so much better.

Gomez: He's just not a full back. Think he has everything to be a cracking CB though. He's strong, good passing, plenty of pace for a CB, ... His reading of the game has to improve a lot though, but that's something that will only come with playing games / by experience. Hopefully Clyne is back soon so him and TAA can rotate the RB position with Gomez being moved to CB.

Matip: Still think he's made to look a lot worse next to Lovren, kids playing at RB and #8's in front of him offering him close to no protection at all. Hard to blame him for the clearing header with the freekick. Wasn't easy to put it anywhere else in my opinion. He's not the defensive leader we need, but put a commanding CB next to him and offer him a bit more protection (in front and behind him) and I think he'll look a lot better.

Lovren: Diego said it really well during the game:"Lovren is a decent CB but he's too weak mentally, which means he's a liability that needs to be moved on." Physically he has everything to be a good CB, but if you're as weak mentally as he is, you'll never make it. Drop and move on.

Moreno: One of the very few who could leave the pitch with his head up high after today's game. He has been our best and most consistent defender so far this season.

Henderson: Nice assist for Salah's goal, but other than that, I'm really struggling to remember anything he did this game and I have a bloody good memory. Not good, although not helped by the two imposters in front of him in midfield. Would have really liked to see him step up and give the lads an earful, anything, some emotion, but nothing at all.

Milner: Loyal servant, good to fill some gaps here and there, but nothing more than that. Couldn't believe the amount of people having him in their line-ups instead of Wijnaldum. He isn't a PL quality midfielder. Too slow, not good on the ball at all.

Can: Been hacking into him for a good few weeks now. Complete liability in midfield, even more so this season now it's clear his head isn't here anymore. He can't play as an #8 in our system and he lacks awareness to play as a #6. Will probably end up doing well in a completely different set-up, but it won't be with us. Honestly not bothered at all with him leaving. Dirt poor again today, can't stress it enough.

Coutinho: Lost count of the times he lost possession. Tried to make things happen because the guys in midfield couldn't, but he can do so much better. Was denied a goal with a great shot at the end of the game. HscRed1 posted it in his player thread, I don't like him in midfield. Keep him up front.

Firmino: Thought he did well in the first half and won back the ball that led to our goal. Linked up play well on a few occasions, but nothing special other than that. It's hard to link up play with no runners (other than Salah) around you.

Salah: An ever present threat. This lad just doesn't give up, does he? Took his goal well, missed a big chance at the end of the game, but overall again one of the, if not the best, player(s) on the pitch.

Chamberlain: One of the very few bright spots. Thought he did relatively well when he came one. Showed his pace, a few good runs and crosses. I hope he gets up to speed with our play quickly so we can see him in midfield. Though looking at today's performance of our midfielders and Wijnaldum's injury, we might see him there sooner than expected.

I was a bit excited as I never get out on a Sunday. Got pissed quickly. I know we were sh*te but what happened with personnel and formation when Lovren got tugged?

Who went where, etc? Genuine question as I was bevvied and moaning with me mates from very early on.

Just seen this now mate.

Can went to RB and Gomez went to CB.

AOC, when he came on, went to left wing and brought Cou back into the middle.

I've held off posting in the aftermath of the game as quite literally fuming.

Klopp - I want him to stay at the club. I don't think changing manager half way through a season helps anyone. He is a very charismatic personality and I'm sure a great man manager, you can't help but be enthused by his presence, but there are some clear deficits in his management policies.
1) He is slow to react. He makes subs because they are expected at a certain point in time during a game, he doesn't read the game -
 maybe its due to being such a passionate spectator on the sidelines.
2) His formation is static. 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, no budging. Premier league football has evolved this season, primarily driven by Pep with a 3 at the back policy converting to a back 5 when under pressure. The tactics filtering through to multiple teams in the league when against top opposition to reduce the space. Its simple football basics that a front 2 can hurt a back 3, preferably with a target man in the mix. Pochettinho clearly announced his tactics before the game, outlining it would surprise people even though he replicating the mechanism he used vs Real.City destroyed us with a similar approach a month or so ago. Klopp's unwillingness to be flexible or mold his team against the opposition, is a huge detriment to our progress.
3) Transfers. This summer was quite frankly a farce. We need 2 CBS, a Keeper and a DM. To be fair we targetted a LB which as also a priority post last seasons results, but to not look to fill the other roles, or put all our eggs in 1 basket for VVD was asking for trouble. There is no time in football, especially for a manager, Klopp should know that.

Mignolet. Was a good shot stopper. Didn't turn up today. Seems to have got over his random urges to dribble with the ball. Still can't deal with crosses or distribute the ball. Quite frankly not good enough.

Gomez: Needs time, should be learning his trade at center back. Will learn from mistakes, which aren't as relevant to his development when played out of position.

Matip: Our best center back. I'm not stating hes a world beater, but I honestly think would be adequate with a good partner. He definitely needs competition.

Lovren: Has personally contributed to the most amount of lost points out of anyone in our current squad since his transfer from Southampton.

Moreno: Vastly impressed with his performance this season. Almost too cagey after over-committing with his offensive duties for the first 18 months of his Liverpool career. Can tell he's nervous and holding back this season, but a fullbacks primary job is to defend so I bear no grudges. Is taking feedback onboard; I was one of his biggest critics last season; looks like some competition from Robertson has spurred him on. Long may it continue.

Henderson: Hes a meathead that grinds teams down due to his fitness. He is not a special footballer. He has a great attitude. It is not enough at a top club. The fact hes the captain, is a disgrace. Not a DM.

Milner: Great player, reads the game, good ability on the ball. Has lost that extra yard. Can't be counted on against top class opposition in the middle of the park. A good filler to have within the squad. Not a DM.

Can: Has the upper body strength to dominate in a midfield role. Hasn't got a good head on him. Completes rash tackles on a regular basis and tends to love himself too much, resulting in taking on unrealistic shots/passes/runs which result in lost possession even if at times he can pull off a worldie. Not a DM and has no consistency. If his head isn't here, he needs to go.

Salah: Great signing. Has given everything since joining the club. Fair does, wish the rest showed as much passion.

Coutinho: Classy player. He needs to play as a 10 or as part of a pair of 10's, to have a larger influence on the game.

Firmino: Good player. Can't play on his own upfront - especially in the premier league. The false 9 position surprised people last season, and he had Lallana hovering around him for through balls. Without that type of creativity, tends to struggle.

We are in a precarious position. I honestly think Klopp needs until the end of the season. I can't see anyone coming in turning it around with our current personnel, and it should be his responsibility to fix. He has a huge task on his hands. I hope he just looks to tighten it up. We can score goals every game with our creativity. His inability to reflect, and stubbornness to proceed with the same tactics week in, week out, could be his downfall - he hasn't given his summer signings a chance.

I think Lovren is an easy scapegoat TBH.

The first goal was bad, but we had ample opportunity to clear it after that.
The 2nd goal was clearly his fault.

3RD AND 4TH GOALS are self explanatory.

Overall i think he was at fault for 1 goal. We can make it ALL about one player, but at the end of the day we defend terribly as a team.

That has been our problem for a while and it is mostly down to tactics which are then exacerbated by Individual errors.

I think Lovren is an easy scapegoat TBH.

The first goal was bad, but we had ample opportunity to clear it after that.
The 2nd goal was clearly his fault.

3RD AND 4TH GOALS are self explanatory.

Overall i think he was at fault for 1 goal. We can make it ALL about one player, but at the end of the day we defend terribly as a team.

That has been our problem for a while and it is mostly down to tactics which are then exacerbated by Individual errors.

It isn't just about this one game though.

How many individual errors has lovren made while playing for us? How many has mignolet? They've proven dozens of times that they can't cut it at this level.

Our set up and the way we play may leave them exposed and that's something that's been discussed recently. Personally, I don't particularly agree with that.

Maybe it's just my imagination but in general, the opposition very rarely cut us open. We tend to concede from our own mistakes and in particular when crosses or long balls come into the box. Lovren or Mignolet are well known for flapping, panicking and causing us all kinds of problems.

It doesnt matter what system we play or what players are on the pitch. If the opposition want to go long and start hoofing the ball into our box there is very little we can do about it. We can't go through 90minutes every week and not give a corner or a free kick away can we?

Lovren yesterday was a complete shambles and for me, he shouldn't wear the shirt ever again. The first goal was bad but the second was so bad it was actually comical. You don't even see that type of defending at Sunday league level. You see it at my sons u8's level. Little kids running in front of their man and jumping as high as they can but getting nowhere near the ball.

We need a new back four. We won't win a thing with this lot.

It isn't just about this one game though.

How many individual errors has lovren made while playing for us? How many has mignolet? They've proven dozens of times that they can't cut it at this level.

Our set up and the way we play may leave them exposed and that's something that's been discussed recently. Personally, I don't particularly agree with that.

Maybe it's just my imagination but in general, the opposition very rarely cut us open. We tend to concede from our own mistakes and in particular when crosses or long balls come into the box. Lovren or Mignolet are well known for flapping, panicking and causing us all kinds of problems.

It doesnt matter what system we play or what players are on the pitch. If the opposition want to go long and start hoofing the ball into our box there is very little we can do about it. We can't go through 90minutes every week and not give a corner or a free kick away can we?

Lovren yesterday was a complete shambles and for me, he shouldn't wear the shirt ever again. The first goal was bad but the second was so bad it was actually comical. You don't even see that type of defending at Sunday league level. You see it at my sons u8's level. Little kids running in front of their man and jumping as high as they can but getting nowhere near the ball.

We need a new back four. We won't win a thing with this lot.

After that performance your sons U8 level would probably beat us.You are 100% correct our back 4 should of been replaced in the summer.Sadly number 19 seems as far away as ever and that really saddens me.

Klopp is in big trouble. Not sure what he can do, something is obviously seriously wrong in the club.

Fair play to him if he can turn it around but I just can’t see it. He needs 3 wins on the bounce in the league to make people believe again.

But can anyone seriously see that happpening?

Not me

It isn't just about this one game though.

How many individual errors has lovren made while playing for us? How many has mignolet? They've proven dozens of times that they can't cut it at this level.

Our set up and the way we play may leave them exposed and that's something that's been discussed recently. Personally, I don't particularly agree with that.

Maybe it's just my imagination but in general, the opposition very rarely cut us open. We tend to concede from our own mistakes and in particular when crosses or long balls come into the box. Lovren or Mignolet are well known for flapping, panicking and causing us all kinds of problems.

It doesnt matter what system we play or what players are on the pitch. If the opposition want to go long and start hoofing the ball into our box there is very little we can do about it. We can't go through 90minutes every week and not give a corner or a free kick away can we?

Lovren yesterday was a complete shambles and for me, he shouldn't wear the shirt ever again. The first goal was bad but the second was so bad it was actually comical. You don't even see that type of defending at Sunday league level. You see it at my sons u8's level. Little kids running in front of their man and jumping as high as they can but getting nowhere near the ball.

We need a new back four. We won't win a thing with this lot.

Do you think Rafa would struggle to get Good defensive performances from our team? Imho I think he could sort them out. These players just dont become sh*t overnight. Mignolet had 3 good seasons in the premier league before he came to us. Lovren was A highly rated international. I find it hard to believe they are suddenly lower than a under 19 standard. Their confidence is shot.

Do you think Rafa would struggle to get Good defensive performances from our team? Imho I think he could sort them out. These players just dont become sh*t overnight. Mignolet had 3 good seasons in the premier league before he came to us. Lovren was A highly rated international. I find it hard to believe they are suddenly lower than a under 19 standard. Their confidence is shot.

I think it's a big fish in a small pond scenario that we've soon too many times over the years, not just with defenders.

Downing was a good player for villa. Carroll for Newcastle. Adam for Blackpool. Doesn't mean they're good enough for liverpool does it. It just means our standards are different to those three clubs and where they had a good game every two or three matches we can't allow that here. Our players need to have good games every 5 games out of 6.

I know what you're saying, and to use your example then yes I think Rafa could organise us better at the back than what Jürgen can. But, ultimately, the same players would still cost us games at some point and I stand by what I say in that we won't win a thing with that back four - even if we had the best defensive expert on the planet managing us.

He is a talented footballer but as the weeks go by you can see why no other team from the EPL were linked to Matip who was available on a free.

Too slow and way too passive to play as a CB in this league.
He needs a commanding CB next to him to make him look half decent, maybe VVD could have done that role but alas the club decided Lovren is the bees knees and gave him a £100K a week new contract.

Now Emre, you don't wish to be here, you are letting your contract run out so why not just f*ck off, you are not consistent or good enough.

I beg to differ. Emre has been one of our most consistent midfielders. In fact, he's been consistently below par for a long period of time now. Al the best on your 1 exit to Juve, Emre.

Do you guys think the likes of Ramos and Bonnuci would struggle in our setup?

Klopp needs help to sort out our defense.
Alex at manure had Carlos Queiroz who used to do the defensive work, Klopp needs to do the same maybe

1: big Sam would he want to work as a number 2?
2: ?
3: ?
4: ?
that the only person i can think of at the mo

What's the point having a world class defensive coach when we have sh*t lazy players defending the goal. They were waiting for each other to defend the goal and everyone stood there like monuments. Disgraceful, truly disgraceful defending. If I were Klopp I would start to use the second stringers, at least they will do their best while those lazy bas**rds should be shipped out immediately. Klopp needs to be ruthless from now on, otherwise, the hatchet gonna bury him soon. I saw how Houlier, Benitez and BR gone and it is the beginning  of the end for Klopp if he doesn't start to be ruthless and kick a few useless sh*t out of the club, starting with Migs.

We need to talk about our back 5.

We need to talk about our back 5.

Make the thread!!!! :p

Iv never felt so depressed after a defeat. That was a shocking performance and I expect to see big changes made. I don’t know what to think with so many embarrassing individual performances. I feel like turning off my phone for the rest of the week. Gutted..

Make the thread!!!! :p

I see one there on the defence.
Absolutely gutted at the moment.
Goes beyond merely the players at this point.
Maybe a rant in there later.