Spurs 4-1 Liverpool: In game and Post match discussion

Kinda glad I was at work now.... don’t think I’ll be watching the highlights tonight...

Oh I'm not absolving Jürgen of picking them, of course he takes a huge slice of responsibility for it. I am saying that I think it's loyalty, misguided belief that they can be better, or simply arrogance (check his thread) that caused those decisions. I believe it's the former, but that loyalty should now be well and truly spent.

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Fair enough Luke to be honest im just tired so tired of this now just not sure we can get out of this without a change being made at various levels in the club .

I WANTED jk here, but he's a bottler, and thats been shown that in the finals we've been in. This is HIS team now, so he cannotblame what he has.
The thing that really pisses me off, is that he asked for belief, but has no bottle to carry it out

That was painful to watch at times. And we only clicked into life once we were four-one down and Spurs just took the game as a training exercise. There was nobody to come out of the game with any credit from a Liverpool point of view. To look on the bright side though, everybody said last year it was dropping points to the teams below us that cost us. This year, we've picked up maximum points against those currently below us and are dropping points against those above us.

Mignolet - made a decent save from Son (the one where Son just didn't connect with the ball) but apart from that he put in his worst performance of the season. He's taken a lot of stick during the season, usually undeserved and just because of people's hatred of him. But today he's earned every bit of stick he gets because he was F***ing useless. Flapping at everything. I don't want to see Karius anywhere near the side either though, so give Danny Ward a run as number one. There was obviously a reason Klopp kept him and wouldn't loan him back to Huddersfield so given that the two more experienced keepers have been sh*te for the majority of their Liverpool careers, give Ward a chance.

Gomez - I don't think he covered himself in glory today either. He wasn't really noticably at fault for the goals but he didn't do anything to help prevent them either. I do like the lad and have said in the past given his age and inexperience he's gonna have the odd iffy game and today was one of them. He was still our best defender on the day though but given the competition that wasn't difficult.

Matip - I've said it previously and I'll say it again after today's outing. Matip has played every single minute of every single Premiership game. We're constantly having defensive issues. So maybe the problem is the constant. I don't think he's that good a defender and for the size of him he doesn't win near enough headers with any conviction. Crouch used to get it, people saying the ball hit him on the head rather than him headering the ball and that's how Matip looks at times.

Lovren - less said the better. I don't think he was playing offside for the first goal because he didn't appeal for it and was hoping the linesman would bail him out. He was just completely out of position and Spurs exploited it in the worse possible way. His game then got worse. And it only looked as if it was getting better when he was brought off. Then I saw it was Chamberlain coming on and the prospect of things getting better quickly dimmed.

Moreno - a bit like Gomez on the right, he wasn't obviously at fault but he didn't do anything to prevent the goals either. He's still the least of our problems this season as the back four goes but I wouldn't be disappointed to see Robertson in the side for a sustained run either.

Milner - after a man of the match performance against Marimor, he reverted back to his usual not good enough self today. Offered nothing, done nothing.

Henderson - excellent ball for the goal, excellent ball following that over the top to Salah and that was about it. I don't remember seeing him do anything else today other than the volley from the corner. Nothing good, nothing bad. Just a game that passed him by. And that's not good enough for the captain of the team or for somebody in the middle of the park.

Can - I don't even wanna talk about him. I've had enough of seeing him in a Liverpool shirt producing the same sh*t performances he has for the past three and a half years. Quicker he goes the better.

Salah - scored the goal, looked the most dangerous but wasn't that good. Will no doubt get the man of the match award from the fans.

Coutinho - game passed him by. For our most creative player that's not good enough. Gave us very little today.

Firmino - still no Premier League goal since August. That's shocking for our number one forward. Six games without a goal in the League. There were times today were he wasn't even trying to get in the box, just strolling around outside it while the ball is being put into the six yard box. If Sturridge hadn't fu**ed up so much against Newcastle, I'd be screaming for him to start. I want Solanke to get a run in the team now.

Chamberlain - I didn't wanna see him come on and his performance didn't change that mindset, he's just not good enough for this club. Unfortuantely there appears to be a fair few who aren't good enough and Chamberlain is one of many to fall in that category rather than being out on his own.

Sturridge - I don't know if he touched the ball, if he did I don't remember anything coming from it. So I can't comment on the substitution other than I wished it'd be Solanke instead of Danny and wished it's been made a lot F***ing earlier than the 77th minute. Maybe by the 20th minute might of been more productive because even that early into the game it was obvious whatever tactic we were playing, wasn't working.

Grujic - don't understand that substitution at all. We take a centre half off for a right winger to move our right back to centre half and our centre mid to right back. We then take our makeshift right back off for a centre mid to move another centre mid to right back. All this while we've got a natural centre half and natural right back on the bench. But instead we throw Grujic on to replace Can so Milner can replace him at right back.

My worries
Emre Can - Flattered by Juve interest and his agent deals with it. No Emre sorry not good enough needs to be benched until he proves his worth or his allegiance . Garbage performance

Lovren and Mignolet simply got to get shut enough is enough

No No 9

Our skipper isnt a skipper.

Only players good enough to start Salah, Couts,Mane . Matip and Moreno,Firminho (good enough but not sure where) not fussed either way

Klopp- Has trusted ability of sub standard players for to long. He needs to start changing things or he is going to come under real pressure . Get Wilson, Woodburn,Solanke minutes

Well that was just f***in sh*te,fuckers should give their wages to charidee after that effort.

Jürgen still 100% the man for the job in my eyes. BUT....something needs to change. Can't decide if it is just Jürgen being stubborn or whether he thinks we don't have the players to play any other way?! Can't deny we were s**t at the back today and have been for some time but Spurs were also walking through our midfield at times and could have had a couple more off the back of it. The less said about Emre Can the better. The guy offers nothing in terms of midfield cover and even less going forward. Yet again another disappearing act from our captain. Think there is a player in there somewhere.
We are absolutely screaming out for a deep midfielder. They are absolutely essential and it shows that we don't have one. You chuck someone like Kante or Matic into our midfield 3 and we automatically look more solid.
It seems such obvious things that need changed and yet they aren't being addressed. Like I said....Jürgen is the man for this club IMO...but change in team/system...is needed right now!

Shocking performance but you have to take your  hat off to Spurs, they weren't brilliant but their players do the jobs they are supposed to do and they have have a No.9 who scores goals. We have none of that at the moment. For me we have to start changing things around and give some of our other players a go. We didn't get our CB target and decided not to go for another. So Klopp obviously has faith in Gomez at CB, so play him there and give him a run of games because it begets belief that he is our 3rd or 4th choice CB but he constantly gets played at full back. Lovren is not up to the job so give young Joe a run of games. If Can is Sao flattered by Juventus interest then hurry up and f**k off there. Bobby is not a No.9 he's a midfielder so play him there.  Solanke and Sturridge are strikers so play them in that position. Our only shining lights at the moment are Salah and Mané. We look out of our depth, the top 4 is a pipe dream they way we are playing. Start playing players in the positions that they are supposed to play and then maybe we may see some continuity...because at the moment we are lost and devoid of ideas.

I said in the locked game thread that we should start with 4 in mid, Hendo,Can,Winnie,Milner...keep it tight, sit in and don't get to high....and was ridiculed

We started high with 3 playing up front. Our defenders were taking a high line. Lovren was to high and was skinned for the first, for the second he dived in just short of the half way line...missed the header and was left for dead..2-0..we were chasing the game after that.

We can't go at teams from the off..esp against other top teams away from home. We have to get into the game,work hard, battle it out before we take the game to them.

But as I said earlier can't we trust this defense with anything and may be are only chance is to attack Rodgers style and try and outscore teams.

Bit of a mess init..

Desperately need a change of system. It's been apparent for weeks that this ain't working, and a record victory against Maribor may have pleased some of our fans on here, but it doesn't mask over anything in reality.

We have regular defensive errors, but it doesn't actually matter who plays. Each of our defenders have proved costly at times, and each of keepers have had howlers. Sure enough, Lovren was responsible for goal #2 today and had a bad game all round, but after he was subbed, we conceded another 2.  We've had games without him, and seen appalling defensive play too. So, not just him to blame.

The reality is, our set up and tactics exposes our defence. I believe that even had Klopp signed VVD, we'd see many mistakes and goals conceded. I don't believe that the problem would have been solved. Any decent defender in our side seems to struggle.

Then there's the attack. Firmino with zero PL goals since end of August.. yet he is played again, and again, and again. It's not like he's a proven goal scorer on a barren run.. he's not even a striker!! Klopp needs to get his head together and just drop him. Stop the idea that a front 3 with Firmino leading the line is going to win games, or even score goals for that matter.

May as well be totally radical and go with a front 2 of Sturridge and Solanke! Worth a shot. Or at least play a system with one striker. People say Sturridge doesn't fit the system - so create a system around him then! Make changes! We've developed our system around Firmino for long enough and it just hasn't worked.

At the moment, we have a defence that struggles every game (unless like Utd, they sit back and don't attack), a midfield that is slow and does not dominate games, and an attack that runs a lot, and gets the odd goal. Not good enough.

I've had enough of the "lessons learnt" false hope. Let's go with a new style. Klopp dropped the 'heavy metal football' aggressive pressing idea ages ago. So why not drop his formation too? 

The frightenig statisics i have seen today is for the away team we have concided the most goals 15 compared to the nearest 12 and after 9 games with 13 points Rogers was sacked Klop has played 9 games and has 13 points ......
 So after 2 years nothing has changed .....

Mig.....Can't be relied on...4

Gomez.....may be better of in Lovrens position...5
Matip....Average defender, doesn't inspire to much confidence but wasn't the worst today..6
Lovren...Well.....nuff said....3
Moreno....Not the best left back at the club, nothing soecial today..5

Can...Can can't...does he have his heart in it...if he does then he has a tiny heart....5
Henderson...Good ball for the Salah goal...but needs to start bossing this team but is he really a leader...6
Milner...in after a good show V Maribor....but this wasn't Maribor....5

Coutinho....Been great since he got back from his...er...injuries...bu t off blob today...6
Firmino...not a goal scorer...flatters to deceive...good footballer tho...5
Salah....Pacey...waspish striker...scored a good goal, showed desire to get there...our MOTM...but had very little to beat...7

Klopp....poor tactics, just went with Milner coz he did well against Maribor...confused subs..no plan B..not much of a plan A either....4

Desperately need a change of system. It's been apparent for weeks that this ain't working, and a record victory against Maribor may have pleased some of our fans on here, but it doesn't mask over anything in reality.

We have regular defensive errors, but it doesn't actually matter who plays. Each of our defenders have proved costly at times, and each of keepers have had howlers. Sure enough, Lovren was responsible for goal #2 today and had a bad game all round, but after he was subbed, we conceded another 2.  We've had games without him, and seen appalling defensive play too. So, not just him to blame.

The reality is, our set up and tactics exposes our defence. I believe that even had Klopp signed VVD, we'd see many mistakes and goals conceded. I don't believe that the problem would have been solved. Any decent defender in our side seems to struggle.

Then there's the attack. Firmino with zero PL goals since end of August.. yet he is played again, and again, and again. It's not like he's a proven goal scorer on a barren run.. he's not even a striker!! Klopp needs to get his head together and just drop him. Stop the idea that a front 3 with Firmino leading the line is going to win games, or even score goals for that matter.

May as well be totally radical and go with a front 2 of Sturridge and Solanke! Worth a shot. Or at least play a system with one striker. People say Sturridge doesn't fit the system - so create a system around him then! Make changes! We've developed our system around Firmino for long enough and it just hasn't worked.

At the moment, we have a defence that struggles every game (unless like Utd, they sit back and don't attack), a midfield that is slow and does not dominate games, and an attack that runs a lot, and gets the odd goal. Not good enough.

I've had enough of the "lessons learnt" false hope. Let's go with a new style. Klopp dropped the 'heavy metal football' aggressive pressing idea ages ago. So why not drop his formation too?

I cautioned after the Maribor result..I also called for a change in the system before the match. I warned about getting to high early on and that the 4-3-3 put extra pressure on an already pressured defense. I was mostly ridiculed.

But whatever system we go with you need quality defenders...we defend like a bottom 6 team, and if we don't sort it we won't be far off the bottom 6.

Why? Is it the transfer window? Do we have another option?

No, we have Karius and Ward. Both been tried and yet Mignolet is better than both.

We don't have any other option. At least they haven't been given as many chances to F**k up as Mignolet.

I didn’t think I could hate Gary Neville anymore than I already do, but he’s just proved me very wrong.

what did he say?

Klopp like Brenden Rogers keep playing same players even when sh*t not try some younger players give chance season over

I didn't realise he was mate.  So he's playing with an injury?

I cannot believe what I've seen from our lot today.  Absolutely gutted.

I think today it was LSD on a cracker. Did you see how he was in another world?

Was that Lovren whom ducked under the header that played Kane in? Mignolet collided with Matip? Lovren all round. To be honest the highlights said it all. it was defending of the lowest order. I don't know if you can manage for that.

I'm not a fan of Migs (Who Is) but today I can not  blame him in anyway for the goals (First two) that was all Lovren

Didn't read every post in the thread, but along with other criticisms, Can has to take the lion's share of the blame for the third goal. Amateurish, asinine giveaway in midfield when it was literally easier to keep it, forcing him to give up a free kick. The brain cramps this player has, mixed in with sometimes good performances, make him totally not worth it. Gini keeps the ball, Emre does not.

Then, while Matip's header wasn't good, surely there has to be one midfielder on the edge of the box to win the 2nd ball, but they are all running full speed back toward our goal with only Spurs attacker forward. As bad as the other three goals conceded were from our end, that third is the one that frustrated me the most (and that was quite the competition for that, err....prize).

I'm not a fan of Migs (Who Is) but today I can not  blame him in anyway for the goals (First two) that was all Lovren

what about the one he flapped at   

I was a bit excited as I never get out on a Sunday. Got pissed quickly. I know we were sh*te but what happened with personnel and formation when Lovren got tugged?

Who went where, etc? Genuine question as I was bevvied and moaning with me mates from very early on.

Been saying for years now that Mignolet and Lovren aren't good enough.  I don't think the rest of them are the world's greatest but it has to be disconcerting playing with them in the team for the rest of the players.

Wouldn't surprise me if next to someone decent that Matip could really do something for us.

Get Mignolet out of the team and stick Karius in for an extended period.  He might come good he might not.  Mignolet, I guarantee you, will never be good.  Reina was forced out years ago to be replaced by Mignolet (Brilliant that one 👏) and he's still a better keeper than the Belgian.

As for Lovren, he talks a good game - that's about it.  In the same bracket as the Kozma's and Piechnik's in my book.  Say what you want about Klavan - but Klavan doesn't go for that soft sh*te header on the halfway line.

I'd be more than happy to take the consequences of not seeing Migs or Lovren play for us again.

The weird thing is I don't think we played too badly today apart from the individual mistakes.  That 4-1 was definitely flattering for Spurs as we give them such simple gifts.  Example - I genuinely can't remember the last time an opposition keeper ever flapped so badly at one of our crosses and gave us a goal or a CB decided to so woefully miss a halfway line header and give our forward a 25 yard head start.

Chequebook needs busting out in January and it needs to go on the defence.

Shout out to Moreno and Salah for being our best players.  Rest of them were 5s or 6s.