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      The academy: How well is it really doing?

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      HScRed1
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #25: Apr 05, 2021 10:03:21 pm
      You don't have to be, some of the best defenders have not always been blessed with pace. He's different from the other defenders we have and in all honesty I would rather keep Phillips than Matip. Matip should be the one to leave.

      He probably will as well.

      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #26: Apr 06, 2021 12:16:23 pm
      Sorry but Matip can't even last 45 mins without picking up a knock. Phillips has to be kept and Matip released. It's the only logical decision.

      Matip may go as well but Phillips will be moved on - he has been great and stuck his head in but he is the step below what’s needed -
      FL Red
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #27: Apr 06, 2021 03:41:47 pm
      Sorry but Matip can't even last 45 mins without picking up a knock. Phillips has to be kept and Matip released. It's the only logical decision.

      That’s fair, but we still should be putting someone better than Nat alongside Virgil. Whether that’s a healthy Gomez, or someone they’ve yet to bring in, we need another ball playing CB.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #28: Apr 06, 2021 03:43:10 pm
      Matip may go as well but Phillips will be moved on - he has been great and stuck his head in but he is the step below what’s needed -

      As a 5th option, he is not.
      billythered
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #29: Apr 06, 2021 04:56:47 pm
      Unfortunately I think Matip’s goose is cooked, he is a very good CB but we cannot afford a very good CB lying on a recovery bench 3/4 times every season,
       with Kabak on loan the jury is still out on whether he earns a full contract, Gomez is still young enough to recover from his injury woes and I see him with a bright future,
       Nat Phillips is a old fashioned defender who will go thru the proverbial brick wall and for me has earned his place in the squad, young Rhys needs game time and is more likely to be loaned out,

      Ibrahima Konate is a player I would like to see come in and I believe Jürgen has had a very keen eye on, he’s the kind of defender we need, fast, strong and reads the game well, Virgil & Gomez or Virgil & Konate look pretty formidable with decent back up from Phillips & Kabak, we have Billy Koumetio in the ressies but probably too early for that young lad yet, but might see more of him in the cup runs,

      I’d be surprised if we retain the service of Matip beyond his contract, not entirely sure how long he has left but in the interim if he’s fit & match fit we should play him, or at least have the option to, it’s incomprehensible that we would have a injury hit season again next season, so having a possible six CB ‘s I think it’s safe to say we’ll be covered.




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      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #30: Apr 06, 2021 05:15:40 pm
      That’s fair, but we still should be putting someone better than Nat alongside Virgil. Whether that’s a healthy Gomez, or someone they’ve yet to bring in, we need another ball playing CB.

      I'm not saying he should be starting, but he's earned a place in the squad imo
      Brian78
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #31: Apr 06, 2021 05:37:20 pm
      I'm not saying he should be starting, but he's earned a place in the squad imo

      Nat?

      For me hes jumped above Matip. I love Matip but hes unreliable as in playing more then 2 games back to back.

      For me VVD, Joe and Konate if we sign him are 1 2 and 3 with Kabak if he stays and Nat battling for 4 and 5
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #32: Apr 06, 2021 05:45:25 pm
      Nat?

      For me hes jumped above Matip. I love Matip but hes unreliable as in playing more then 2 games back to back.

      For me VVD, Joe and Konate if we sign him are 1 2 and 3 with Kabak if he stays and Nat battling for 4 and 5

      That sounds about right to me.
      rossyred
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #33: Apr 06, 2021 06:36:54 pm
      Nat?

      For me hes jumped above Matip. I love Matip but hes unreliable as in playing more then 2 games back to back.

      For me VVD, Joe and Konate if we sign him are 1 2 and 3 with Kabak if he stays and Nat battling for 4 and 5

      Let's not forget Ben Davies 🤔
      srslfc
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #34: Apr 09, 2021 11:37:27 am

      Likewise.
      FL Red
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #35: Apr 09, 2021 02:18:07 pm
      Nat?

      For me hes jumped above Matip. I love Matip but hes unreliable as in playing more then 2 games back to back.

      For me VVD, Joe and Konate if we sign him are 1 2 and 3 with Kabak if he stays and Nat battling for 4 and 5

      My fear is that Joe is going to follow in the footsteps of Joel injury wise. He's had a rough go of it and although I don't believe his injuries are indicative of a recurring type of issue, the body still seems to break down easier, the more you get sidelined. If the Konate rumors are true, it would seem it will be Virg, Konate, Kabak and then Davies (insert Joe into the first three when healthy). I think Nat's performances this season are admirable but they may be a rehearsal for starting time at another club because he won't get much with us.
      EarnedIt6Times
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #36: May 17, 2021 08:49:18 pm
      The academy under Michael Edwards is basically just a stable of horses, designed to do nothing more than make the club money. Sign every single player up on 5-year pro contracts, loan them out, loan them out, loan them out, loan them out, loan them out, sell them. For me it's treading a very fine ethical/moral line and I'm not sure we're on the right side of that line. And I'm not just talking LFC. Look at Chelsea.

      Seen it this last week, 2 more long-term contracts for 2 lads that - bless their cotton socks - will never play a single minute for our club: Fidel O'Rourke and Matteo Ritaccio. God knows I'd love to see a lad with a name like Fidel O'Rourke play for us but he just won't.

      The only players in recent years who seem to have seen through the bullshit that Edwards sells these lads are Ryan Kent, Jordan Rossiter and George Johnston who all said "F**k yer 5-year contracts and empty promises about 'pathways', we're off" and fair fucks to them for that.

      There's a lot of bullshit attached to Juergen Klopp in terms of people lauding him for being some great nurturer of youth talent. His record as our boss has been one of lads only ever getting their chance if there's some big injury crisis. It's how Trent got in, Curtis has got games, and Phillips and Rhys have got games this season.

      Phillips and Rhys aren't ever going to be anywhere near good enough to play for us in the medium term, regardless of the Nat Phillips Fan Cult which I suspect is being run by a still alive Charles Manson and there's a lorra lorra hallucinogenic drugs being taken.

      There's a long running thread on another LFC forum which virtually scientifically proves that taking an interest in our academy players is an almost total waste of time as one 'promising' youngster after another fails to come through, over two decades.

      LFC under Rafa spent years brainwashing the fanbase into believing Dani Pacheco was a dead cert to be the new Deco or whatever, despite it being clear to me that being 5 foot tall in the Prem wasn't going to work and he didn't actually even stand out at academy level. He has disappeared without trace. To be fair it is hard if you're that small; you tend to just disappear from pro football, not just drop divisions. It's why I expect Clarkson to just disappear in the same way, not even re-appear in the 4th division or whatever. It's why Jay S dropped so far. Managers don't like very small players.

      My big problem with the academy at the moment is Vitor Matos and his club of little favourite-wavourites like Billy Koumetio, who has had a godawful season yet still gets on the bench somehow because he's in Vitor's little favourite-wavourite club. It sends completely the wrong message to the other young lads. As long as you're in Vitor's little 'elite' group it doesn't matter how sh*t you are in terms of performances. So Jarell - who has been with us since he was a young kid - has to sit there and watch French import Billy Calamity get a place on the bench.

      The system tends to favour foreign players over lads who have been there since birth or whatever. The fawning over Pacheco was quite vomit-inducing, while real local talents like Adam Hammill are fu**ed off out the club because they dared to eat a pack of prawn cocktail crisps or turned up 2 minutes late for training or their parents had a bit of attitude. We tend to favour "nice boys from nice families" when it comes to the local(ish) lads. I don't care if they know where to lay a fish knife on a dining table if they're sh*t at footie.

      Matos needs f**king off. He only got the job cos he's Lijnders' mate from Portugal. And the whole favourite-wavourite club needs binning. Lads should be sent up to train with the firsts on merit and form, not cos they're part of some fast-track stream bollocks.

      Kaide Gordon will get special treatment as we paid money for him, but he's at least earning first team training opportunities with his performances. Koumetio isn't. Far from it.

      We're wasting time with Clarkson and Cain when we've got a real talent in Tyler Morton we could be bringing into first team training.

      I know Klopp likes to delegate but he needs to take more interest or just replace Matos with someone with a genuine eye for a player.

      The primary issue though at this time is what the plan is for Curtis. He's a massive talent. We can't just play him 10 games a season and expect him to become the player he can be. We need a proper development plan for Curtis with proper game time at LFC, not loaned out. But still win League #20 and Big Ears #7 at the same time.

      That's not an easy task but that's why Klopp's paid a massive amount of money and is LFC manager, to somehow make all the pieces fit.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #37: May 17, 2021 09:06:50 pm
      The academy under Michael Edwards is basically just a stable of horses, designed to do nothing more than make the club money. Sign every single player up on 5-year pro contracts, loan them out, loan them out, loan them out, loan them out, loan them out, sell them. For me it's treading a very fine ethical/moral line and I'm not sure we're on the right side of that line. And I'm not just talking LFC. Look at Chelsea.

      Seen it this last week, 2 more long-term contracts for 2 lads that - bless their cotton socks - will never play a single minute for our club: Fidel O'Rourke and Matteo Ritaccio. God knows I'd love to see a lad with a name like Fidel O'Rourke play for us but he just won't.

      The only players in recent years who seem to have seen through the bullshit that Edwards sells these lads are Ryan Kent, Jordan Rossiter and George Johnston who all said "F**k yer 5-year contracts and empty promises about 'pathways', we're off" and fair fucks to them for that.

      There's a lot of bullshit attached to Juergen Klopp in terms of people lauding him for being some great nurturer of youth talent. His record as our boss has been one of lads only ever getting their chance if there's some big injury crisis. It's how Trent got in, Curtis has got games, and Phillips and Rhys have got games this season.

      Phillips and Rhys aren't ever going to be anywhere near good enough to play for us in the medium term, regardless of the Nat Phillips Fan Cult which I suspect is being run by a still alive Charles Manson and there's a lorra lorra hallucinogenic drugs being taken.

      There's a long running thread on another LFC forum which virtually scientifically proves that taking an interest in our academy players is an almost total waste of time as one 'promising' youngster after another fails to come through, over two decades.

      LFC under Rafa spent years brainwashing the fanbase into believing Dani Pacheco was a dead cert to be the new Deco or whatever, despite it being clear to me that being 5 foot tall in the Prem wasn't going to work and he didn't actually even stand out at academy level. He has disappeared without trace. To be fair it is hard if you're that small; you tend to just disappear from pro football, not just drop divisions. It's why I expect Clarkson to just disappear in the same way, not even re-appear in the 4th division or whatever. It's why Jay S dropped so far. Managers don't like very small players.

      My big problem with the academy at the moment is Vitor Matos and his club of little favourite-wavourites like Billy Koumetio, who has had a godawful season yet still gets on the bench somehow because he's in Vitor's little favourite-wavourite club. It sends completely the wrong message to the other young lads. As long as you're in Vitor's little 'elite' group it doesn't matter how sh*t you are in terms of performances. So Jarell - who has been with us since he was a young kid - has to sit there and watch French import Billy Calamity get a place on the bench.

      The system tends to favour foreign players over lads who have been there since birth or whatever. The fawning over Pacheco was quite vomit-inducing, while real local talents like Adam Hammill are fu**ed off out the club because they dared to eat a pack of prawn cocktail crisps or turned up 2 minutes late for training or their parents had a bit of attitude. We tend to favour "nice boys from nice families" when it comes to the local(ish) lads. I don't care if they know where to lay a fish knife on a dining table if they're sh*t at footie.

      Matos needs f**king off. He only got the job cos he's Lijnders' mate from Portugal. And the whole favourite-wavourite club needs binning. Lads should be sent up to train with the firsts on merit and form, not cos they're part of some fast-track stream bollocks.

      Kaide Gordon will get special treatment as we paid money for him, but he's at least earning first team training opportunities with his performances. Koumetio isn't. Far from it.

      We're wasting time with Clarkson and Cain when we've got a real talent in Tyler Morton we could be bringing into first team training.

      I know Klopp likes to delegate but he needs to take more interest or just replace Matos with someone with a genuine eye for a player.

      The primary issue though at this time is what the plan is for Curtis. He's a massive talent. We can't just play him 10 games a season and expect him to become the player he can be. We need a proper development plan for Curtis with proper game time at LFC, not loaned out. But still win League #20 and Big Ears #7 at the same time.

      That's not an easy task but that's why Klopp's paid a massive amount of money and is LFC manager, to somehow make all the pieces fit.

      Christ, you don't half suffer from verbal diarrhoea.  Do you actually think klopp will blindly get someone to train with the first team solely on someone else's
       recommendation. He stated one of the best things about the new training ground is that he could monitor the youngsters more closely. Your weird obsession with Matos is based on Christ knows what.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #38: May 17, 2021 09:32:17 pm
      Christ, you don't half suffer from verbal diarrhoea.  Do you actually think klopp will blindly get someone to train with the first team solely on someone else's
       recommendation. He stated one of the best things about the new training ground is that he could monitor the youngsters more closely. Your weird obsession with Matos is based on Christ knows what.

      We could really use cliff notes when trying to read some of his posts. However, i do think one of the roles of the academy is to provide us with emergency fill ins but also sellable assets to help improve the first team. The required level to be a regular at Liverpool is a lot higher than at Sunderland which means the very vast majority of academy players will not make it.

      Don't care how many games we would have provided them, i don't think Woodburn, Jerome Sinclair, Chirivella, Connor Masterson, Camacho, etc were ever going to make it here, but just because they are not Liverpool quality does not mean they can't go on and have footy careers at lesser teams. I think if we could get 1 "regular" out of the academy every year would be amazing but even that is wishful thinking given our high bar.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #39: May 17, 2021 09:37:39 pm
      The primary issue though at this time is what the plan is for Curtis. He's a massive talent. We can't just play him 10 games a season and expect him to become the player he can be. We need a proper development plan for Curtis with proper game time at LFC, not loaned out. But still win League #20 and Big Ears #7 at the same time.

      That's not an easy task but that's why Klopp's paid a massive amount of money and is LFC manager, to somehow make all the pieces fit.

      I like Jones a lot, but notice in the Gini thread most people are rolling out their wish list of replacements for him but not many mention Jones taking on a bigger role, which in my opinion is what should happen. The moment a spot opens up people immediately start thinking "WHO SHOULD WE BUY TO REPLACE HIM", even though the answer could already be there.

      The guy is a talent and we should be clearing a path for him to earn a spot in the first team instead of adding players who will block it, though then we'd have to hear about net spend and how cheap we are because we lost Gini and didnt bring in a 50M replacement  :roll:
      GERNS
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #40: May 18, 2021 09:01:50 am
      I like Jones a lot, but notice in the Gini thread most people are rolling out their wish list of replacements for him but not many mention Jones taking on a bigger role, which in my opinion is what should happen. The moment a spot opens up people immediately start thinking "WHO SHOULD WE BUY TO REPLACE HIM", even though the answer could already be there.

      The guy is a talent and we should be clearing a path for him to earn a spot in the first team instead of adding players who will block it, though then we'd have to hear about net spend and how cheap we are because we lost Gini and didnt bring in a 50M replacement  :roll:


      Personally I don’t think Curtis is the real deal.
      He’s certainly talented, but to often wants to take too many touches, want to make a big show with the ball at his feet, which results in losing possession, or just slows the play down. No doubt he can be coached to cut that out, but I don’t believe nothing would have been said about it, yet he continues with it, like it’s in his dna.
      Decent player who has his moments, but doesn’t offer enough consistently for me.
      Hardly set the place on fire as an attacking midfielder has he ?
      L4.19Times
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #41: May 18, 2021 09:09:57 am

      Personally I don’t think Curtis is the real deal.
      He’s certainly talented, but to often wants to take too many touches, want to make a big show with the ball at his feet, which results in losing possession, or just slows the play down. No doubt he can be coached to cut that out, but I don’t believe nothing would have been said about it, yet he continues with it, like it’s in his dna.
      Decent player who has his moments, but doesn’t offer enough consistently for me.
      Hardly set the place on fire as an attacking midfielder has he ?

      Maybe because he is a young kid, consistency comes with age and experience

      There's enough there for me to show he has a bright future
      Robby The Z
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #42: May 18, 2021 11:58:19 am
      I wonder if you looked at the 500 registered Premier League players, (20, 25-man squads), how many came up through the youth ranks of their respective clubs. Surprised if it's 20 percent.
      EarnedIt6Times
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #43: May 18, 2021 12:05:53 pm
      Do you actually think klopp will blindly get someone to train with the first team solely on someone else's
       recommendation. He stated one of the best things about the new training ground is that he could monitor the youngsters more closely. Your weird obsession with Matos is based on Christ knows what.

      Yes, Klopp has stated on numerous times that it's a team effort and he has to delegate. He can hardly then un-delegate as it means he'll have to sack Matos, which he should do because Matos is f**king sh*t at his job and only got it through nepotism.
      EarnedIt6Times
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #44: May 18, 2021 12:10:40 pm
      The moment a spot opens up people immediately start thinking "WHO SHOULD WE BUY TO REPLACE HIM", even though the answer could already be there.

      Loads of fans these days are more interested in transfers than the matches

      In fact I'd say the majority (I'm talking about fans that don't actually go the match)

      It's like some sort of compulsive obsessive disorder, not helped by the way the media talk about football, they seem more obsessed with transfer stories than actual match reports, probably cos it helps sell papers or get clicks
      EarnedIt6Times
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #45: May 18, 2021 12:21:15 pm

      Personally I don’t think Curtis is the real deal.


      Oh he is. It's now Juergen's job to get the best out of him.

      I didn't think Curtis could play as an 8, and I'm not convinced that's his position, but he's done well this season, better than could be expected in terms of the defensive side of the game, he's stuck at it. He's played well within his abilities, like Wijnaldum, and that all comes from Klopp instilling discipline and understanding of the role, the necessity to do the boring stuff. Curtis could just flick a switch and do more exciting stuff if he wanted to.

      The way the ball sticks to his feet like glue, the movement, it's like watching a young Robert Pires. He's the player I always come back to when trying to describe who Curtis reminds me of in style of play. Of course Pires played up front on the left and maybe that's where Curtis will end up, who knows, he could also play as a false 9 like Bobby IMO though I'd prefer us to move away from this and get a proper striker in that position who wants to get on the end of crosses rather than drop off.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #46: May 18, 2021 04:48:30 pm
      Yes, Klopp has stated on numerous times that it's a team effort and he has to delegate. He can hardly then un-delegate as it means he'll have to sack Matos, which he should do because Matos is f**king sh*t at his job and only got it through nepotism.

      How do you know with such certainty that he is sh*t at his job ? You say he got the job because of ljinders, well I imagine some of jurgens backroom staff joined because they know him. An absolutely ridiculous argument.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #47: May 18, 2021 04:50:33 pm
      How do you know with such certainty that he is sh*t at his job ? You say he got the job because of ljinders, well I imagine some of jurgens backroom staff joined because they know him. An absolutely ridiculous argument.

      Reminds me of Achterberg, who many thought was sh*t and wanted gone but since Alisson arrived suddenly those cries have silenced.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The academy: How well is it really doing?
      Reply #48: May 18, 2021 06:03:46 pm
      Arl fella had a fare before dropping off one of our top scouts in Ireland. Nothing mentioned about incoming signings :laugh:

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