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      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Chelsea?

      Simon Mignolet
      1 (1.2%)
      Joe Gomez
      4 (4.8%)
      Ragnar Klavan
      0 (0%)
      Joel Matip
      0 (0%)
      Alberto Moreno
      5 (6%)
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      3 (3.6%)
      James Milner
      0 (0%)
      Philippe Coutinho
      0 (0%)
      Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
      6 (7.2%)
      Mohammed Salah
      61 (73.5%)
      Daniel Sturridge
      0 (0%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      0 (0%)
      Sadio Mane
      3 (3.6%)
      Adam Lallana
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 82

      Voting closed: Nov 29, 2017 07:33:03 pm

      Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion

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      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #475: Nov 27, 2017 10:22:56 am
      Call me superstitious, vindictive or whatever, Moreno on the left side is a bloody bad feng shui. All important goals scored against us seems to come from his side. he turned his back not putting a leg to block that fecking cross or shot from willian. Carra or Sammi would have put their body on the line to block and face looking away. Drop him asap Klopp. screwed up twice against Sevilla and now against Chelsea. Fluke incidents cannot take place so frequent. Like Souness said, it is an accident waiting to happen. I would say accidents waiting to happen and more accidents will take place if Klopp don;t do something about it. Get bloody Robertson on.
      JD
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #476: Nov 27, 2017 11:11:33 am
      Call me superstitious, vindictive or whatever, Moreno on the left side is a bloody bad feng shui. All important goals scored against us seems to come from his side.

      Think that's a little bit harsh.  He had two people running on the left that he had to keep an eye on who Willian could have used.

      Willian picked that ball up far too easily and there was little protection from our 'midfield'.

      I do think Mignolet was slow to move his feet - whether it was a cross or a shot.  If he was preparing for a cross then he was even slower to react for it so I don't buy that excuse some people have given for him.

      Mignolet did make a couple of decent saves in the game but in my opinion he was slow to react and yes I do think a better keeper could have got back quicker and tipped it over.

      Having said that I think Chelsea were probably the better side and we actually did well on that basis to have taken the lead against them.  As far as draws go this isn't a majorly disappointing one - those were probably the Watford, Burnley, Newcastle and even maybe Man Utd.

      Defensive record at Anfield in the League has been pretty good so far.  Can't have masses of complaints about that really.  Now we need to translate that to our next two away games.
      Eddieo
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #477: Nov 27, 2017 11:36:31 am
      I don't get this.

      We were largely sh*te and managed to find the lead. It's the type of game we want to learn how to win. Once again, we couldn't. Once again it was an individual error from a common culprit.

      It's not good enough.

      I am not an expert on goalie positioning but as William had the ball he to worry about him having a shot, he had to cover the near post and cut down the angle for the far post.

      If William had shot and it went in the near post the goalie gets the blame. Far post it depends on the circumstances.

      He could of moved his feet a bit better and he would of saved it. But when a play crosses the ball and it drops over the goalies I think it is understandable that he gets caught out.

      Having said all that I would get rid of Mignolet in a heartbeat!!!!!!!
      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #478: Nov 27, 2017 11:54:24 am
      Think that's a little bit harsh.  He had two people running on the left that he had to keep an eye on who Willian could have used.

      Willian picked that ball up far too easily and there was little protection from our 'midfield'.


      Agreed with these statements, but all criticism placed on Migs seems a bit unfair. Believe me, I wanted Migs to go too but it is never easy to stop a looping cross or shot or whatever travelling at high speed into goal. But, I'm surprised very few here actually took notice that the problem started much earlier where hendo shooed away Hazard instead of breathing down his neck. If he had done that instead of issuing instructions to that 2 fellows beside him, the ball would have gone further back from our goal and they will need to start re-building an attack. Hendo and the other 2 fellows simply stopped playing football.

      "No protection from midfield," well said, I'm truly sad that Klopp being a world class manager continuously failed to see that we really needed one but continue to rely on hendo and gang to do the job. If lets say, Lucas was still around, I'm sure he would stick a foot in to prevent Willain from moving an inch nearer to our goal. But no. Klavan waltzed along with Villain while Moreno was too slow to put a foot in to block. The equalizer can simply be attributed to  3-culpable mistakes starting from Hendo,

      No wonder many here and elsewhere kept reminding that Hendo, Klavan and Moreno will never bring us forward. Sadly but true. There will be more occasions like this if Klopp doesn't start doing a major revamp. First he must go and get a bloody DM. We have a busload of attacking midfielders already, we don't need more.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #479: Nov 27, 2017 12:24:31 pm
      https://twitter.com/elvillamelonmx/status/934550489475305474

      Even if it was a cross, the two men at the back post have a tap in coz he's so far off his line.

      And look at our midfield's positioning :D

      Ugh. For f**k's sake.

      If it had had been a cross and a successful one at that, Chelsea still had two men beyond of our defenders with an open goal infront of them, whilst Gomez is playing them both onside. No matter how you look at it, poor defending and poorer positioning by Mignolet would have resulted in that being a goal for Chelsea.
      Swab
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #480: Nov 27, 2017 03:15:16 pm
      A draw at home against the reigning champions, who actually have some genuine world class players.

      I'd prefer the win, but a point is still a decent result, despite the various meltdowns and hissy fits on here.
      Fourbrick
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #481: Nov 27, 2017 03:40:05 pm
      If it had had been a cross and a successful one at that, Chelsea still had two men beyond of our defenders with an open goal infront of them, whilst Gomez is playing them both onside. No matter how you look at it, poor defending and poorer positioning by Mignolet would have resulted in that being a goal for Chelsea.

      Pedro wasn't in an offside position. Still terrible defending.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #482: Nov 27, 2017 03:57:50 pm
      Nobody can blame Mignolet for anything at this point. We can only blame Klopp for persisting with him for so long.

      He couldn't have done any better with the goal whether it was a cross or a shot as his capabilities wouldn't allow him to. Like so many in-game occurrences it's his lack of capability at being a goalkeeper that costs us so many points. He is what he is, an average goalkeeper at best and no matter how much he tries to better himself his capabilities are limited.

      We all know what level of goalie he is, the mistakes and average to inept performances have been there for everybody to see.

      Yet he still keeps getting picked and yet he still hasn't been suitably replaced. Nobody can blame him for that.
      heimdall
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #483: Nov 27, 2017 03:59:55 pm
      Willian claiming his cross was a shot...  :D

      Said it was a "beautiful" goal that he intended.

      So we'll expect to see him do it on regular basis now then, weird he hasn't been doing it much up to now as its one hell of a shot, almost unsaveable. ;-)
      I have a lot more respect for players like Giroud who admit that they had a good slice of luck on their wonder goals.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #484: Nov 27, 2017 04:09:06 pm
      Pedro wasn't in an offside position. Still terrible defending.

      No one was in an offside position because as I said, Gomez is playing them both onside. Mignolet should be on the far post ready to deal with the cross as it comes in, or save a shot from one of the two attackers. The whole reason it went in was because he was on his near post allowing himself the possiblity of being chipped. Even worse is that both Moreno and Klavan are on Willian as he crosses that ball and neither cut the cross out. Moreno is stood around watching whilst Klavan runs past him. Chelsea had two men in the box, we had six, plus the goalkeeper, and any half decent crosser of the ball is going to stick that on the head of either Alonso or Morata.

      Look at the footage closely.

      * 2 seconds in: Wijnaldum, Klavan and Moreno are infront of Willian. Matip, Gomez and Chamberlain are behind Alonso and Morata. Matip is playing them both onside.

      * 3 seconds in: Matip runs towards the near post. He's seemingly unaware of the positionining of either Alonso (the nearest to him) or Morata. As an unintended cosnequence he plays Alonso offside.

      * 4 seconds in: Klavan is at Willian's heals. Moreno has his back half turned in case the ball goes out wide. He should be closing down the angle for Willian's cross because if the ball goes out wide there's no immediate threat. Alonso begins his run. Chamberlain plays him onside.

      * 5 seconds in: Klavan has run past Willian without puting a tackle in. Willian hits a cross. Moreno turns his back instead of closing him down.

      * 6 seconds in: Alonso is now completely unmarked and in a position to nod the ball into the back of the net.

      * 7 seconds in: Morata is now completely unmarked and in a position to nod the ball into the back of the net. Neither of that matters because Willian miskicks the ball which is now in the back of the net.

      If we back up, what should have happened is this:

      * The attack starts, Mignolet covers the back post.

      * 2 seconds in: Liverpool's back line steps up and plays Alonso and Morata offside.

      * 4 seconds in: Klavan makes a tackle on Willian while the ball is still outside the box.

      * 5 seconds in: Assuming that's failed, Moreno should be putting in a second challenge on Willian.

      * 7 seconds in: Assuming that also failed, both Alonso and Morata have had to move back to an onside position removing the threat of a cross. Assuming the ball is still miss-hit, Mignolet makes a comfortable catch and wastes a little time to run the clock down before releasing it for Liverpool to build another attack.

      Six seconds of poor positioning and poor judgement lead to a goal that your average pub team would be ashamed of.
      Danzel
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #485: Nov 27, 2017 04:43:59 pm
      Yeah, I did notice how narrow Moreno was playing. You may be right that Jürgen was allowing Zapacosta that space on purpose ( and yeah he didn't do much with it, fortunately, in my opinion - although it is hard to take anybody with that moustache as a serious threat right enough).

      However, while I quite like a lot of your analysis Danzel, you do have a tendency to put all of Alberto's little foibles down to Jürgen deliberately trying to entice the opposition to play down that side etc. Maybe he does, but, if so, I personally wish the f**k he wouldn't.

      Did you notice Alberto is back to going out to close down crosses with his hands behind his back ( he's been doing that more and more recently). Jürgen's instructions too? Does my head in every time I see him do it.

      Wasn't trying to put Moreno's foibles down to that mate. Was just trying to explain why our left side in this particular game wasn't really a problem and why Klopp didn't make changes earlier. I have no problem at all in pointing out flaws in his game or errors he has made during games. It's there for everyone to see though, we do quite often push sides to our left so he will always be under more pressure. Klopp obviously trusts him to deal with it. If Moreno then makes a mistake, that's on Moreno. Just the odds of him making a mistake are bigger than for example Gomez because Gomez is offered far more protection in front of him. He was sh*te against Sevilla, but I thought he rebounded really well against the Chavs on Saturday and had a good game, bar the one moment where he came flying in late in the second half.

      I've noticed the hands behind his back thing too. He has always kept doing it, but it's happening more often again. I don't really have an issue with the hands behind the back, I see plenty of players doing it. The only issue I have with it is that he tends to completely turn away his body when trying to block rather than just standing up straight and trying to stay as 'big' as possible.

      He was dragged off his line to cut off the angle but he's wandered a couple steps forward. If the ball by Willian was delivered to where he intended, Mignolet doesn't come across in time to save the resulting shot anyway. Morata being offside is irrelevant - if he was onside the same scenario would play out.

      Poor marking by Gomez and Matip but that's not really impacting Mignolet is it? His eyes are focused on Willian. Regardless, once Mignolet gets in to the position he does, there's no way he is able to make up the ground to either a) stop the ball going over his head (as seen), or b) make a save should a Chelsea player connect with the cross.

      How is Morata being offside irrelevant? Had the cross landed where Willian intended it to land, he would've been offside and the goal (had he scored) would've been disallowed. Even if Morata hadn't been the one scoring, it still would've been offside because he's clearly influencing the game from his offside position. Fully agree with regards to Gomez's position though, it's poor. He should've been level with Matip who moved slightly forward because Klavan moved out of position.

      Quote
      Coutinho was playing left wing at that point. Are you blaming our left winger for allowing the opposition attacker space in the middle of the pitch right in front of our box? Whose job is it to protect that area?

      Coutinho wasn't playing left wing at that point. Here's a break down of the three minutes before we conceded:

      82:10 - Willian comes on
      82:33 - Klopp immediately reacts and wants to bring on Lallana
      82:55 - Ball goes out of play, Klopp wants to make the change but it doesn't happen
      (Apparently Achterberg was too late with the sub, Buvac was fuming) Buvac keeps hold off the bal for a few seconds trying to let the substitution happen and is giving instructions to Henderson.
      83:12 - Klopp is signaling the new formation: 5-4-1
      Coutinho who was up until that point indeed playing left forward, becomes part of the midfield four and is no longer playing as a left winger. Here's a view of the midfield four. The back five was already in place at that point. So in 20 seconds our formation completely changed.



      84:05 - You see it again and there Coutinho is in the right position, a few seconds later however, when Milner clears the ball, he moves up the pitch way too high, leaving Wijnaldum isolated, who has to come inside when Henderson, inexcusably, has a horrendous touch, gifts Chelsea the ball and goes pressing. So at that point our left halfspace is wide open. That's a mistake by Henderson.



      See where Coutinho should have been? I'm not blaming him for the goal at all, as Huyton Red said, Henderson should always either keep hold of the ball or play it to Milner. You were talking about the positioning of our midfielders and at that point, Coutinho was one of the midfielders and when the goal is scored, he is the only midfielder who is out of position. The center of the box was actually defended well. All of Hendeson, Milner and Wijnaldum are giving cover to the defence and pushing Hazard to play to Willian. Willian enters the box near its left corner where Klavan has to leave his position because the midfielder (Coutinho) who is supposed to be covering that area, is behind the play and out of position. So am I blaming him? No. Had he been able to help prevent the goal? Yes.
      Danzel
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #486: Nov 27, 2017 04:50:12 pm
      No one was in an offside position because as I said, Gomez is playing them both onside.

      Look at the footage closely.

      You might want to follow your own advice and watch the footage closely.



      How is that not offside?  :lmao:

      And even if you claim Morata to be onside, it's not Gomez who supposedly is playing him onside, he's a yard behind Morata, it's Chamberlain.
      bmck
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      • YNWA
      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #487: Nov 27, 2017 05:04:57 pm
      Jammy bleedin goal :(
      On the plus side. we're getting closer to being able to hold onto a lead :)
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #488: Nov 27, 2017 05:24:43 pm
      You might want to follow your own advice and watch the footage closely.



      How is that not offside?  :lmao:

      And even if you claim Morata to be onside, it's not Gomez who supposedly is playing him onside, he's a yard behind Morata, it's Chamberlain.

      So in reality, Chelsea wouldn't have been hard done had the linesman flagged that play dead for offside before the ball ever got to Migs?
      Scottbot
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #489: Nov 27, 2017 05:30:42 pm
      Some seriously in depth analysis of the goal in here! For me it's a bloody spawns goal that you only happens a couple of times in a whole season. Plenty want to add it to Mignolet's history of errors and I can understand that BUT it was a total fluke no matter who was in goal. If we had a Courtois or a De Ghea in goal we would simply chalk it off as lucky and move past it quickly. That's what I've done.
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #490: Nov 27, 2017 05:49:32 pm
      Some seriously in depth analysis of the goal in here! For me it's a bloody spawns goal that you only happens a couple of times in a whole season. Plenty want to add it to Mignolet's history of errors and I can understand that BUT it was a total fluke no matter who was in goal. If we had a Courtois or a De Ghea in goal we would simply chalk it off as lucky and move past it quickly. That's what I've done.

      Courtois at least is bigger than Migs eh? So same positioning, just by height alone he'd have likely saved it.

      Simon obviously needs to grow taller ;)
      what-a-hit-son
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      • @MrPrice1979
      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #491: Nov 27, 2017 05:49:37 pm

      When are you going to?
      FATKOPITE10
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      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #492: Nov 27, 2017 05:55:04 pm
      Was migs on the grassy knoll ?
      Danzel
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #493: Nov 27, 2017 06:00:22 pm
      So in reality, Chelsea wouldn't have been hard done had the linesman flagged that play dead for offside before the ball ever got to Migs?

      Unfortunately they would have been hard done had the linesman flagged that play dead for offside. In this type of situation, it's only offside if the player who is in the offside position, but doesn't touch the ball, is influencing play. Morata isn't influencing the game from that offside position.

      If however, it had been a cross over his head and Alonso somehow managed to score, it could have been called off for offside because Morata would've been in line with the cross, influencing the decision making of both the defenders and the goalkeeper.
      Fourbrick
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #494: Nov 27, 2017 06:07:22 pm
      You might want to follow your own advice and watch the footage closely.



      How is that not offside?  :lmao:

      And even if you claim Morata to be onside, it's not Gomez who supposedly is playing him onside, he's a yard behind Morata, it's Chamberlain.


      Thanks,Danzel.
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #495: Nov 27, 2017 06:19:23 pm
      Unfortunately they would have been hard done had the linesman flagged that play dead for offside. In this type of situation, it's only offside if the player who is in the offside position, but doesn't touch the ball, is influencing play. Morata isn't influencing the game from that offside position.

      If however, it had been a cross over his head and Alonso somehow managed to score, it could have been called off for offside because Morata would've been in line with the cross, influencing the decision making of both the defenders and the goalkeeper.

      Surely you could make the argument (from the shot you posted) that the ball was likely meant for Morata which would mean he was involved in the play and it could have been ruled offside immediately?
      rossyred
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #496: Nov 27, 2017 06:30:55 pm

      One routine save. Please tell me the one off Zappacosta and where Drinkwater stumbled into him miscontroling it as good saves
      rossyred
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #497: Nov 27, 2017 06:32:57 pm
      Wasn't trying to put Moreno's foibles down to that mate. Was just trying to explain why our left side in this particular game wasn't really a problem and why Klopp didn't make changes earlier. I have no problem at all in pointing out flaws in his game or errors he has made during games. It's there for everyone to see though, we do quite often push sides to our left so he will always be under more pressure. Klopp obviously trusts him to deal with it. If Moreno then makes a mistake, that's on Moreno. Just the odds of him making a mistake are bigger than for example Gomez because Gomez is offered far more protection in front of him. He was sh*te against Sevilla, but I thought he rebounded really well against the Chavs on Saturday and had a good game, bar the one moment where he came flying in late in the second half.

      I've noticed the hands behind his back thing too. He has always kept doing it, but it's happening more often again. I don't really have an issue with the hands behind the back, I see plenty of players doing it. The only issue I have with it is that he tends to completely turn away his body when trying to block rather than just standing up straight and trying to stay as 'big' as possible.

      How is Morata being offside irrelevant? Had the cross landed where Willian intended it to land, he would've been offside and the goal (had he scored) would've been disallowed. Even if Morata hadn't been the one scoring, it still would've been offside because he's clearly influencing the game from his offside position. Fully agree with regards to Gomez's position though, it's poor. He should've been level with Matip who moved slightly forward because Klavan moved out of position.

      Coutinho wasn't playing left wing at that point. Here's a break down of the three minutes before we conceded:

      82:10 - Willian comes on
      82:33 - Klopp immediately reacts and wants to bring on Lallana
      82:55 - Ball goes out of play, Klopp wants to make the change but it doesn't happen
      (Apparently Achterberg was too late with the sub, Buvac was fuming) Buvac keeps hold off the bal for a few seconds trying to let the substitution happen and is giving instructions to Henderson.
      83:12 - Klopp is signaling the new formation: 5-4-1
      Coutinho who was up until that point indeed playing left forward, becomes part of the midfield four and is no longer playing as a left winger. Here's a view of the midfield four. The back five was already in place at that point. So in 20 seconds our formation completely changed.



      84:05 - You see it again and there Coutinho is in the right position, a few seconds later however, when Milner clears the ball, he moves up the pitch way too high, leaving Wijnaldum isolated, who has to come inside when Henderson, inexcusably, has a horrendous touch, gifts Chelsea the ball and goes pressing. So at that point our left halfspace is wide open. That's a mistake by Henderson.



      See where Coutinho should have been? I'm not blaming him for the goal at all, as Huyton Red said, Henderson should always either keep hold of the ball or play it to Milner. You were talking about the positioning of our midfielders and at that point, Coutinho was one of the midfielders and when the goal is scored, he is the only midfielder who is out of position. The center of the box was actually defended well. All of Hendeson, Milner and Wijnaldum are giving cover to the defence and pushing Hazard to play to Willian. Willian enters the box near its left corner where Klavan has to leave his position because the midfielder (Coutinho) who is supposed to be covering that area, is behind the play and out of position. So am I blaming him? No. Had he been able to help prevent the goal? Yes.

      Fxxk me do you not have a Job or are you a student ?
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #498: Nov 27, 2017 06:45:03 pm
      Fxxk me do you not have a Job or are you a student ?

      Ha ha I know.
      Shabs
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #499: Nov 27, 2017 07:07:12 pm
      Migs ain't even got a beachball he can point to..

      Poor position & a lack of awareness from the keeper, simple.

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