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      Today is the 28th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P26 W11 D3 L12

      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Chelsea?

      Simon Mignolet
      1 (1.2%)
      Joe Gomez
      4 (4.8%)
      Ragnar Klavan
      0 (0%)
      Joel Matip
      0 (0%)
      Alberto Moreno
      5 (6%)
      Jordan Henderson
      3 (3.6%)
      James Milner
      0 (0%)
      Philippe Coutinho
      0 (0%)
      Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
      6 (7.2%)
      Mohammed Salah
      61 (73.5%)
      Daniel Sturridge
      0 (0%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      0 (0%)
      Sadio Mane
      3 (3.6%)
      Adam Lallana
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 80

      Voting closed: Nov 29, 2017 07:33:03 pm

      Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion

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      Danzel
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #483: Nov 27, 2017 04:43:59 pm
      Yeah, I did notice how narrow Moreno was playing. You may be right that Jürgen was allowing Zapacosta that space on purpose ( and yeah he didn't do much with it, fortunately, in my opinion - although it is hard to take anybody with that moustache as a serious threat right enough).

      However, while I quite like a lot of your analysis Danzel, you do have a tendency to put all of Alberto's little foibles down to Jürgen deliberately trying to entice the opposition to play down that side etc. Maybe he does, but, if so, I personally wish the f**k he wouldn't.

      Did you notice Alberto is back to going out to close down crosses with his hands behind his back ( he's been doing that more and more recently). Jürgen's instructions too? Does my head in every time I see him do it.

      Wasn't trying to put Moreno's foibles down to that mate. Was just trying to explain why our left side in this particular game wasn't really a problem and why Klopp didn't make changes earlier. I have no problem at all in pointing out flaws in his game or errors he has made during games. It's there for everyone to see though, we do quite often push sides to our left so he will always be under more pressure. Klopp obviously trusts him to deal with it. If Moreno then makes a mistake, that's on Moreno. Just the odds of him making a mistake are bigger than for example Gomez because Gomez is offered far more protection in front of him. He was sh*te against Sevilla, but I thought he rebounded really well against the Chavs on Saturday and had a good game, bar the one moment where he came flying in late in the second half.

      I've noticed the hands behind his back thing too. He has always kept doing it, but it's happening more often again. I don't really have an issue with the hands behind the back, I see plenty of players doing it. The only issue I have with it is that he tends to completely turn away his body when trying to block rather than just standing up straight and trying to stay as 'big' as possible.

      He was dragged off his line to cut off the angle but he's wandered a couple steps forward. If the ball by Willian was delivered to where he intended, Mignolet doesn't come across in time to save the resulting shot anyway. Morata being offside is irrelevant - if he was onside the same scenario would play out.

      Poor marking by Gomez and Matip but that's not really impacting Mignolet is it? His eyes are focused on Willian. Regardless, once Mignolet gets in to the position he does, there's no way he is able to make up the ground to either a) stop the ball going over his head (as seen), or b) make a save should a Chelsea player connect with the cross.

      How is Morata being offside irrelevant? Had the cross landed where Willian intended it to land, he would've been offside and the goal (had he scored) would've been disallowed. Even if Morata hadn't been the one scoring, it still would've been offside because he's clearly influencing the game from his offside position. Fully agree with regards to Gomez's position though, it's poor. He should've been level with Matip who moved slightly forward because Klavan moved out of position.

      Quote
      Coutinho was playing left wing at that point. Are you blaming our left winger for allowing the opposition attacker space in the middle of the pitch right in front of our box? Whose job is it to protect that area?

      Coutinho wasn't playing left wing at that point. Here's a break down of the three minutes before we conceded:

      82:10 - Willian comes on
      82:33 - Klopp immediately reacts and wants to bring on Lallana
      82:55 - Ball goes out of play, Klopp wants to make the change but it doesn't happen
      (Apparently Achterberg was too late with the sub, Buvac was fuming) Buvac keeps hold off the bal for a few seconds trying to let the substitution happen and is giving instructions to Henderson.
      83:12 - Klopp is signaling the new formation: 5-4-1
      Coutinho who was up until that point indeed playing left forward, becomes part of the midfield four and is no longer playing as a left winger. Here's a view of the midfield four. The back five was already in place at that point. So in 20 seconds our formation completely changed.



      84:05 - You see it again and there Coutinho is in the right position, a few seconds later however, when Milner clears the ball, he moves up the pitch way too high, leaving Wijnaldum isolated, who has to come inside when Henderson, inexcusably, has a horrendous touch, gifts Chelsea the ball and goes pressing. So at that point our left halfspace is wide open. That's a mistake by Henderson.



      See where Coutinho should have been? I'm not blaming him for the goal at all, as Huyton Red said, Henderson should always either keep hold of the ball or play it to Milner. You were talking about the positioning of our midfielders and at that point, Coutinho was one of the midfielders and when the goal is scored, he is the only midfielder who is out of position. The center of the box was actually defended well. All of Hendeson, Milner and Wijnaldum are giving cover to the defence and pushing Hazard to play to Willian. Willian enters the box near its left corner where Klavan has to leave his position because the midfielder (Coutinho) who is supposed to be covering that area, is behind the play and out of position. So am I blaming him? No. Had he been able to help prevent the goal? Yes.
      Danzel
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #484: Nov 27, 2017 04:50:12 pm
      No one was in an offside position because as I said, Gomez is playing them both onside.

      Look at the footage closely.

      You might want to follow your own advice and watch the footage closely.



      How is that not offside?  :lmao:

      And even if you claim Morata to be onside, it's not Gomez who supposedly is playing him onside, he's a yard behind Morata, it's Chamberlain.
      bmck
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #485: Nov 27, 2017 05:04:57 pm
      Jammy bleedin goal :(
      On the plus side. we're getting closer to being able to hold onto a lead :)
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #486: Nov 27, 2017 05:24:43 pm
      You might want to follow your own advice and watch the footage closely.



      How is that not offside?  :lmao:

      And even if you claim Morata to be onside, it's not Gomez who supposedly is playing him onside, he's a yard behind Morata, it's Chamberlain.

      So in reality, Chelsea wouldn't have been hard done had the linesman flagged that play dead for offside before the ball ever got to Migs?
      Scottbot
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #487: Nov 27, 2017 05:30:42 pm
      Some seriously in depth analysis of the goal in here! For me it's a bloody spawns goal that you only happens a couple of times in a whole season. Plenty want to add it to Mignolet's history of errors and I can understand that BUT it was a total fluke no matter who was in goal. If we had a Courtois or a De Ghea in goal we would simply chalk it off as lucky and move past it quickly. That's what I've done.
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #488: Nov 27, 2017 05:49:32 pm
      Some seriously in depth analysis of the goal in here! For me it's a bloody spawns goal that you only happens a couple of times in a whole season. Plenty want to add it to Mignolet's history of errors and I can understand that BUT it was a total fluke no matter who was in goal. If we had a Courtois or a De Ghea in goal we would simply chalk it off as lucky and move past it quickly. That's what I've done.

      Courtois at least is bigger than Migs eh? So same positioning, just by height alone he'd have likely saved it.

      Simon obviously needs to grow taller ;)
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #489: Nov 27, 2017 05:49:37 pm

      When are you going to?
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #490: Nov 27, 2017 05:55:04 pm
      Was migs on the grassy knoll ?
      Danzel
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #491: Nov 27, 2017 06:00:22 pm
      So in reality, Chelsea wouldn't have been hard done had the linesman flagged that play dead for offside before the ball ever got to Migs?

      Unfortunately they would have been hard done had the linesman flagged that play dead for offside. In this type of situation, it's only offside if the player who is in the offside position, but doesn't touch the ball, is influencing play. Morata isn't influencing the game from that offside position.

      If however, it had been a cross over his head and Alonso somehow managed to score, it could have been called off for offside because Morata would've been in line with the cross, influencing the decision making of both the defenders and the goalkeeper.
      Fourbrick
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #492: Nov 27, 2017 06:07:22 pm
      You might want to follow your own advice and watch the footage closely.



      How is that not offside?  :lmao:

      And even if you claim Morata to be onside, it's not Gomez who supposedly is playing him onside, he's a yard behind Morata, it's Chamberlain.


      Thanks,Danzel.
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #493: Nov 27, 2017 06:19:23 pm
      Unfortunately they would have been hard done had the linesman flagged that play dead for offside. In this type of situation, it's only offside if the player who is in the offside position, but doesn't touch the ball, is influencing play. Morata isn't influencing the game from that offside position.

      If however, it had been a cross over his head and Alonso somehow managed to score, it could have been called off for offside because Morata would've been in line with the cross, influencing the decision making of both the defenders and the goalkeeper.

      Surely you could make the argument (from the shot you posted) that the ball was likely meant for Morata which would mean he was involved in the play and it could have been ruled offside immediately?
      rossyred
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #494: Nov 27, 2017 06:30:55 pm

      One routine save. Please tell me the one off Zappacosta and where Drinkwater stumbled into him miscontroling it as good saves
      rossyred
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #495: Nov 27, 2017 06:32:57 pm
      Wasn't trying to put Moreno's foibles down to that mate. Was just trying to explain why our left side in this particular game wasn't really a problem and why Klopp didn't make changes earlier. I have no problem at all in pointing out flaws in his game or errors he has made during games. It's there for everyone to see though, we do quite often push sides to our left so he will always be under more pressure. Klopp obviously trusts him to deal with it. If Moreno then makes a mistake, that's on Moreno. Just the odds of him making a mistake are bigger than for example Gomez because Gomez is offered far more protection in front of him. He was sh*te against Sevilla, but I thought he rebounded really well against the Chavs on Saturday and had a good game, bar the one moment where he came flying in late in the second half.

      I've noticed the hands behind his back thing too. He has always kept doing it, but it's happening more often again. I don't really have an issue with the hands behind the back, I see plenty of players doing it. The only issue I have with it is that he tends to completely turn away his body when trying to block rather than just standing up straight and trying to stay as 'big' as possible.

      How is Morata being offside irrelevant? Had the cross landed where Willian intended it to land, he would've been offside and the goal (had he scored) would've been disallowed. Even if Morata hadn't been the one scoring, it still would've been offside because he's clearly influencing the game from his offside position. Fully agree with regards to Gomez's position though, it's poor. He should've been level with Matip who moved slightly forward because Klavan moved out of position.

      Coutinho wasn't playing left wing at that point. Here's a break down of the three minutes before we conceded:

      82:10 - Willian comes on
      82:33 - Klopp immediately reacts and wants to bring on Lallana
      82:55 - Ball goes out of play, Klopp wants to make the change but it doesn't happen
      (Apparently Achterberg was too late with the sub, Buvac was fuming) Buvac keeps hold off the bal for a few seconds trying to let the substitution happen and is giving instructions to Henderson.
      83:12 - Klopp is signaling the new formation: 5-4-1
      Coutinho who was up until that point indeed playing left forward, becomes part of the midfield four and is no longer playing as a left winger. Here's a view of the midfield four. The back five was already in place at that point. So in 20 seconds our formation completely changed.



      84:05 - You see it again and there Coutinho is in the right position, a few seconds later however, when Milner clears the ball, he moves up the pitch way too high, leaving Wijnaldum isolated, who has to come inside when Henderson, inexcusably, has a horrendous touch, gifts Chelsea the ball and goes pressing. So at that point our left halfspace is wide open. That's a mistake by Henderson.



      See where Coutinho should have been? I'm not blaming him for the goal at all, as Huyton Red said, Henderson should always either keep hold of the ball or play it to Milner. You were talking about the positioning of our midfielders and at that point, Coutinho was one of the midfielders and when the goal is scored, he is the only midfielder who is out of position. The center of the box was actually defended well. All of Hendeson, Milner and Wijnaldum are giving cover to the defence and pushing Hazard to play to Willian. Willian enters the box near its left corner where Klavan has to leave his position because the midfielder (Coutinho) who is supposed to be covering that area, is behind the play and out of position. So am I blaming him? No. Had he been able to help prevent the goal? Yes.

      Fxxk me do you not have a Job or are you a student ?
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #496: Nov 27, 2017 06:45:03 pm
      Fxxk me do you not have a Job or are you a student ?

      Ha ha I know.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #497: Nov 27, 2017 07:07:12 pm
      Migs ain't even got a beachball he can point to..

      Poor position & a lack of awareness from the keeper, simple.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #498: Nov 27, 2017 10:18:28 pm
      How is Morata being offside irrelevant? Had the cross landed where Willian intended it to land, he would've been offside and the goal (had he scored) would've been disallowed. Even if Morata hadn't been the one scoring, it still would've been offside because he's clearly influencing the game from his offside position. Fully agree with regards to Gomez's position though, it's poor. He should've been level with Matip who moved slightly forward because Klavan moved out of position.

      Because Mignolet's positioning isn't influenced by what's happening out of his peripheral vision. He can't see that Morata is offside. His decision to step out isn't because of what Morata is doing. Do you get what i'm saying? Morata is irrelevant in Mignolet's decision to step off his line, rather than shuffle across his line, to cut off the angle.

      It's like playing at the net in tennis. Come forward too much and you leave the whole back-court open for a lob (like Willian's cross/shot). Stay back too much and you leave angles open for a cross-court passing shot (a shot at the far post). It's poor positioning and a lack of awareness.

      The rest we can agree to disagree.
      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #499: Nov 28, 2017 09:40:20 pm

      Look at the footage closely.

      If we back up, what should have happened is this:


      * 4 seconds in: Klavan makes a tackle on Willian while the ball is still outside the box.

      * 5 seconds in: Assuming that's failed, Moreno should be putting in a second challenge on Willian.



      Good analysis. To me, these are the two very important points and being the most vital, plus the third that started much earlier with Henderson whom should have chased after Hazard while he has 2 other players defending our right side. No, hendo allowd Hazard to change course and link-up with willian. That's the result we get week in week out simply because somehow and somewhere and someone or more than one will fail to do do what they are supposed to be doing. This point to the fact that we have too many average quality players in the squad.

      Klopp's greatest mistake is that he never replaced Lucas with another DM but kept buying AM and kept relying on hendo to do that defensive part. There'll be more days like this.

       

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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #500: Nov 28, 2017 11:33:18 pm
      six seconds of poor positioning and poor judgement lead to a goal that your average pub team would be ashamed of.

      Or Henderson could have just done his job properly instead of passing the ball to the them and then the whole thing wouldn't have happened in the first place.

      Just a thought like.
      RobieSlick
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #501: Nov 29, 2017 03:56:26 am
      Or Henderson could have just done his job properly instead of passing the ball to the them and then the whole thing wouldn't have happened in the first place.

      Just a thought like.

      Henderson is a big problem. I would be happy if he never plays for Liverpool ever again.

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