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      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Chelsea?

      Simon Mignolet
      1 (1.2%)
      Joe Gomez
      4 (4.8%)
      Ragnar Klavan
      0 (0%)
      Joel Matip
      0 (0%)
      Alberto Moreno
      5 (6%)
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      James Milner
      0 (0%)
      Philippe Coutinho
      0 (0%)
      Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
      6 (7.2%)
      Mohammed Salah
      61 (73.5%)
      Daniel Sturridge
      0 (0%)
      Georginio Wijnaldum
      0 (0%)
      Sadio Mane
      3 (3.6%)
      Adam Lallana
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 80

      Voting closed: Nov 29, 2017 07:33:03 pm

      Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion

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      DanMann
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #460: Nov 26, 2017 10:05:57 pm
      What i cant understand is to take off your only forward off and replace him with ginni who aint a defencive midfielder thus inviting on the pressure on a team who are very susspect at defending any way

      I thought that was a poor sub.

      Why take Sturridge off at all?
      HScRed1
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #461: Nov 26, 2017 10:12:11 pm
      I thought that was a poor sub.

      Why take Sturridge off at all?

      Probably because he was completely anonymous.
      sore monad
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #462: Nov 26, 2017 10:27:11 pm
      If you look at how our defence set up all game. Did you notice how narrow Moreno played and how close he was to Klavan most of the game? He did it from the beginning of the game and it didn't change in the second half, so Klopp didn't see it as a problem or he didn't try to rectify it.

      That leads me to believe that we allowed Zappacosta that space on purpose. Just like Chelsea allowed Henderson all the time in the world when he was on the ball, we did the same for Zappacosta to try and deny their midfield runners space through the middle. Moreno playing so narrow also helped with stopping Hazard on multiple occasions.

      For all the space he was given, what did he actually do with it? He had one shot from outside the box and as far as I remember, one dangerous cross to Alonso at the back post. Klavan and Matip dealt will all the crosses really well, so the tactic worked.

      For comparison, look at how close Gomez defended on Alonso, who is by far the better wingback compared to Zappacosta, yet he wasn't allowed the same space as Zappacosta was given.

      We didn't need a change earlier. The complexity of the game only changed when Willian came on. He has far more pace, skills and a better cross than Zappocosta, so he would be able to exploit the space we allowed his teammate. Klopp immediately reacted by wanting to bring on Lallana, to close the halfspace and allow Moreno to play wider again. For some reason the change didn't happen and they scored. Klopp's explanation in his post presser makes perfect sense.

      What we may percieve as 'a problem', Klopp may not see it the same way, hence why he didn't change, but wanted to change as soon as Willian came on.

      Yeah, I did notice how narrow Moreno was playing. You may be right that Jürgen was allowing Zapacosta that space on purpose ( and yeah he didn't do much with it, fortunately, in my opinion - although it is hard to take anybody with that moustache as a serious threat right enough).

      However, while I quite like a lot of your analysis Danzel, you do have a tendency to put all of Alberto's little foibles down to Jürgen deliberately trying to entice the opposition to play down that side etc. Maybe he does, but, if so, I personally wish the f**k he wouldn't.

      Did you notice Alberto is back to going out to close down crosses with his hands behind his back ( he's been doing that more and more recently). Jürgen's instructions too? Does my head in every time I see him do it.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #463: Nov 26, 2017 10:56:19 pm
      We played quite well, possibly did enough to win.

      It was one of those tight games where there was very little between the teams.

      Can't blame Migs for ther goal, was just one of those things

      I don't get this.

      We were largely sh*te and managed to find the lead. It's the type of game we want to learn how to win. Once again, we couldn't. Once again it was an individual error from a common culprit.

      It's not good enough.
      DanMann
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #464: Nov 27, 2017 12:02:56 am
      Probably because he was completely anonymous.

      But he wasn't. So, it was a mistake.
      DanMann
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #465: Nov 27, 2017 12:04:54 am
      Willian claiming his cross was a shot...  :D

      Said it was a "beautiful" goal that he intended.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #466: Nov 27, 2017 01:03:01 am
      But he wasn't. So, it was a mistake.

      He wasn't offering that much of a threat, instead of bringing on Gini, I would of brought on Mane and let Chelsea worry about the threat of pace from both him and Salah.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #467: Nov 27, 2017 01:52:22 am
      But he wasn't. So, it was a mistake.

      That was his worst game for Liverpool in a while. He offered no pace and wasn't really getting in behind their defence to offer much of a threat. From Klopp's perspective, I'm guessing he wanted to deal with the threat of Hazard, which is probably why he chose Gini to come on. That in itself was fine but neither Milner nor Henderson were having a good game so in my opinion it would have been the better choice to bring Gini on for Milner and Mane on for Sturridge. Like for like sbustitutions with upgrades in each position. With Chelsea's tired legs, the injection of pace could very well have killed the game for them without sacrificing our midfield solidity. Nonetheless, we can discuss tactics all day but if that bellend in goal had done his job and saved the ball we'd be having a very different conversation on here.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #468: Nov 27, 2017 02:21:44 am
      Willian claiming his cross was a shot...  :D

      Said it was a "beautiful" goal that he intended.

      Surely his comment was a windup.

      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #469: Nov 27, 2017 04:20:17 am
      https://twitter.com/elvillamelonmx/status/934550489475305474

      Even if it was a cross, the two men at the back post have a tap in coz he's so far off his line.

      And look at our midfield's positioning :D

      Ugh. For F**k's sake.
      Danzel
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #470: Nov 27, 2017 04:35:51 am
      https://twitter.com/elvillamelonmx/status/934550489475305474

      Even if it was a cross, the two men at the back post have a tap in coz he's so far off his line.

      Look again, Morata is offside. No tap in.

      If it had been a cross and Morata hadn't been offside, the angle would've been different and any of Matip, Gomez or Mignolet, if it's pretty central, can deal with it.

      It was a fluke, stop blaming Mignolet, his positioning was perfectly fine.

      Genuine question, have you heard any pundit / analyst, on any channel / highlights show say Mignolet is at fault? I haven't and there was a former international goalkeeper on the show I was watching during the game. Funnily enough half our forum does think he's at fault. Who is right?

      Also, where did you want our midfielders to be? All of them packed inside the box too? Milner has rotated to the #6 position and the other two are right in front of him.

      If any of the midfielders was at fault, it's Coutinho, he's the only one who was behind the ball at the point when Willian got it.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #471: Nov 27, 2017 05:06:21 am
      Look again, Morata is offside. No tap in.

      If it had been a cross and Morata hadn't been offside, the angle would've been different and any of Matip, Gomez or Mignolet, if it's pretty central, can deal with it.

      It was a fluke, stop blaming Mignolet, his positioning was perfectly fine.

      Genuine question, have you heard any pundit / analyst, on any channel / highlights show say Mignolet is at fault? I haven't and there was a former international goalkeeper on the show I was watching during the game. Funnily enough half our forum does think he's at fault. Who is right?

      Also, where did you want our midfielders to be? All of them packed inside the box too? Milner has rotated to the #6 position and the other two are right in front of him.

      If any of the midfielders was at fault, it's Coutinho, he's the only one who was behind the ball at the point when Willian got it.

      He was dragged off his line to cut off the angle but he's wandered a couple steps forward. If the ball by Willian was delivered to where he intended, Mignolet doesn't come across in time to save the resulting shot anyway. Morata being offside is irrelevant - if he was onside the same scenario would play out.

      Poor marking by Gomez and Matip but that's not really impacting Mignolet is it? His eyes are focused on Willian. Regardless, once Mignolet gets in to the position he does, there's no way he is able to make up the ground to either a) stop the ball going over his head (as seen), or b) make a save should a Chelsea player connect with the cross.

      Coutinho was playing left wing at that point. Are you blaming our left winger for allowing the opposition attacker space in the middle of the pitch right in front of our box? Whose job is it to protect that area?
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #472: Nov 27, 2017 05:56:32 am
      Look again, Morata is offside. No tap in.

      If it had been a cross and Morata hadn't been offside, the angle would've been different and any of Matip, Gomez or Mignolet, if it's pretty central, can deal with it.

      It was a fluke, stop blaming Mignolet, his positioning was perfectly fine.

      Genuine question, have you heard any pundit / analyst, on any channel / highlights show say Mignolet is at fault? I haven't and there was a former international goalkeeper on the show I was watching during the game. Funnily enough half our forum does think he's at fault. Who is right?

      Also, where did you want our midfielders to be? All of them packed inside the box too? Milner has rotated to the #6 position and the other two are right in front of him.

      If any of the midfielders was at fault, it's Coutinho, he's the only one who was behind the ball at the point when Willian got it.

      Simple answer, just blame Henderson for giving the ball away in the first place!!
      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #473: Nov 27, 2017 10:22:56 am
      Call me superstitious, vindictive or whatever, Moreno on the left side is a bloody bad feng shui. All important goals scored against us seems to come from his side. he turned his back not putting a leg to block that fecking cross or shot from willian. Carra or Sammi would have put their body on the line to block and face looking away. Drop him asap Klopp. screwed up twice against Sevilla and now against Chelsea. Fluke incidents cannot take place so frequent. Like Souness said, it is an accident waiting to happen. I would say accidents waiting to happen and more accidents will take place if Klopp don;t do something about it. Get bloody Robertson on.
      JD
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #474: Nov 27, 2017 11:11:33 am
      Call me superstitious, vindictive or whatever, Moreno on the left side is a bloody bad feng shui. All important goals scored against us seems to come from his side.

      Think that's a little bit harsh.  He had two people running on the left that he had to keep an eye on who Willian could have used.

      Willian picked that ball up far too easily and there was little protection from our 'midfield'.

      I do think Mignolet was slow to move his feet - whether it was a cross or a shot.  If he was preparing for a cross then he was even slower to react for it so I don't buy that excuse some people have given for him.

      Mignolet did make a couple of decent saves in the game but in my opinion he was slow to react and yes I do think a better keeper could have got back quicker and tipped it over.

      Having said that I think Chelsea were probably the better side and we actually did well on that basis to have taken the lead against them.  As far as draws go this isn't a majorly disappointing one - those were probably the Watford, Burnley, Newcastle and even maybe Man Utd.

      Defensive record at Anfield in the League has been pretty good so far.  Can't have masses of complaints about that really.  Now we need to translate that to our next two away games.
      Eddieo
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #475: Nov 27, 2017 11:36:31 am
      I don't get this.

      We were largely sh*te and managed to find the lead. It's the type of game we want to learn how to win. Once again, we couldn't. Once again it was an individual error from a common culprit.

      It's not good enough.

      I am not an expert on goalie positioning but as William had the ball he to worry about him having a shot, he had to cover the near post and cut down the angle for the far post.

      If William had shot and it went in the near post the goalie gets the blame. Far post it depends on the circumstances.

      He could of moved his feet a bit better and he would of saved it. But when a play crosses the ball and it drops over the goalies I think it is understandable that he gets caught out.

      Having said all that I would get rid of Mignolet in a heartbeat!!!!!!!
      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #476: Nov 27, 2017 11:54:24 am
      Think that's a little bit harsh.  He had two people running on the left that he had to keep an eye on who Willian could have used.

      Willian picked that ball up far too easily and there was little protection from our 'midfield'.


      Agreed with these statements, but all criticism placed on Migs seems a bit unfair. Believe me, I wanted Migs to go too but it is never easy to stop a looping cross or shot or whatever travelling at high speed into goal. But, I'm surprised very few here actually took notice that the problem started much earlier where hendo shooed away Hazard instead of breathing down his neck. If he had done that instead of issuing instructions to that 2 fellows beside him, the ball would have gone further back from our goal and they will need to start re-building an attack. Hendo and the other 2 fellows simply stopped playing football.

      "No protection from midfield," well said, I'm truly sad that Klopp being a world class manager continuously failed to see that we really needed one but continue to rely on hendo and gang to do the job. If lets say, Lucas was still around, I'm sure he would stick a foot in to prevent Willain from moving an inch nearer to our goal. But no. Klavan waltzed along with Villain while Moreno was too slow to put a foot in to block. The equalizer can simply be attributed to  3-culpable mistakes starting from Hendo,

      No wonder many here and elsewhere kept reminding that Hendo, Klavan and Moreno will never bring us forward. Sadly but true. There will be more occasions like this if Klopp doesn't start doing a major revamp. First he must go and get a bloody DM. We have a busload of attacking midfielders already, we don't need more.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #477: Nov 27, 2017 12:24:31 pm
      https://twitter.com/elvillamelonmx/status/934550489475305474

      Even if it was a cross, the two men at the back post have a tap in coz he's so far off his line.

      And look at our midfield's positioning :D

      Ugh. For f**k's sake.

      If it had had been a cross and a successful one at that, Chelsea still had two men beyond of our defenders with an open goal infront of them, whilst Gomez is playing them both onside. No matter how you look at it, poor defending and poorer positioning by Mignolet would have resulted in that being a goal for Chelsea.
      Swab
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #478: Nov 27, 2017 03:15:16 pm
      A draw at home against the reigning champions, who actually have some genuine world class players.

      I'd prefer the win, but a point is still a decent result, despite the various meltdowns and hissy fits on here.
      Fourbrick
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #479: Nov 27, 2017 03:40:05 pm
      If it had had been a cross and a successful one at that, Chelsea still had two men beyond of our defenders with an open goal infront of them, whilst Gomez is playing them both onside. No matter how you look at it, poor defending and poorer positioning by Mignolet would have resulted in that being a goal for Chelsea.

      Pedro wasn't in an offside position. Still terrible defending.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #480: Nov 27, 2017 03:57:50 pm
      Nobody can blame Mignolet for anything at this point. We can only blame Klopp for persisting with him for so long.

      He couldn't have done any better with the goal whether it was a cross or a shot as his capabilities wouldn't allow him to. Like so many in-game occurrences it's his lack of capability at being a goalkeeper that costs us so many points. He is what he is, an average goalkeeper at best and no matter how much he tries to better himself his capabilities are limited.

      We all know what level of goalie he is, the mistakes and average to inept performances have been there for everybody to see.

      Yet he still keeps getting picked and yet he still hasn't been suitably replaced. Nobody can blame him for that.
      heimdall
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #481: Nov 27, 2017 03:59:55 pm
      Willian claiming his cross was a shot...  :D

      Said it was a "beautiful" goal that he intended.

      So we'll expect to see him do it on regular basis now then, weird he hasn't been doing it much up to now as its one hell of a shot, almost unsaveable. ;-)
      I have a lot more respect for players like Giroud who admit that they had a good slice of luck on their wonder goals.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Chelsea: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #482: Nov 27, 2017 04:09:06 pm
      Pedro wasn't in an offside position. Still terrible defending.

      No one was in an offside position because as I said, Gomez is playing them both onside. Mignolet should be on the far post ready to deal with the cross as it comes in, or save a shot from one of the two attackers. The whole reason it went in was because he was on his near post allowing himself the possiblity of being chipped. Even worse is that both Moreno and Klavan are on Willian as he crosses that ball and neither cut the cross out. Moreno is stood around watching whilst Klavan runs past him. Chelsea had two men in the box, we had six, plus the goalkeeper, and any half decent crosser of the ball is going to stick that on the head of either Alonso or Morata.

      Look at the footage closely.

      * 2 seconds in: Wijnaldum, Klavan and Moreno are infront of Willian. Matip, Gomez and Chamberlain are behind Alonso and Morata. Matip is playing them both onside.

      * 3 seconds in: Matip runs towards the near post. He's seemingly unaware of the positionining of either Alonso (the nearest to him) or Morata. As an unintended cosnequence he plays Alonso offside.

      * 4 seconds in: Klavan is at Willian's heals. Moreno has his back half turned in case the ball goes out wide. He should be closing down the angle for Willian's cross because if the ball goes out wide there's no immediate threat. Alonso begins his run. Chamberlain plays him onside.

      * 5 seconds in: Klavan has run past Willian without puting a tackle in. Willian hits a cross. Moreno turns his back instead of closing him down.

      * 6 seconds in: Alonso is now completely unmarked and in a position to nod the ball into the back of the net.

      * 7 seconds in: Morata is now completely unmarked and in a position to nod the ball into the back of the net. Neither of that matters because Willian miskicks the ball which is now in the back of the net.

      If we back up, what should have happened is this:

      * The attack starts, Mignolet covers the back post.

      * 2 seconds in: Liverpool's back line steps up and plays Alonso and Morata offside.

      * 4 seconds in: Klavan makes a tackle on Willian while the ball is still outside the box.

      * 5 seconds in: Assuming that's failed, Moreno should be putting in a second challenge on Willian.

      * 7 seconds in: Assuming that also failed, both Alonso and Morata have had to move back to an onside position removing the threat of a cross. Assuming the ball is still miss-hit, Mignolet makes a comfortable catch and wastes a little time to run the clock down before releasing it for Liverpool to build another attack.

      Six seconds of poor positioning and poor judgement lead to a goal that your average pub team would be ashamed of.

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