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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Everton?

      Simon Mignolet
      0 (0%)
      Joe Gomez
      33 (39.8%)
      Dejan Lovren
      3 (3.6%)
      Ragnar Klavan
      0 (0%)
      Andy Robertson
      3 (3.6%)
      Jordan Henderson
      3 (3.6%)
      James Milner
      0 (0%)
      Alex Ox Chamberlain
      5 (6%)
      Dominic Solanke
      0 (0%)
      Mo Salah
      34 (41%)
      Sadio Mane
      1 (1.2%)
      Danny Ings
      1 (1.2%)
      Bobby Firmino
      0 (0%)
      Phil Coutinho
      0 (0%)

      Total Members Voted: 83

      Voting closed: Dec 14, 2017 04:33:41 pm

      Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate

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      DanMann
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #700: Dec 11, 2017 09:35:25 am
      As Michael Owen would say. He's given the referee no choice but to consider his options.

      or in other words, an excuse to give a penalty.
      skamp
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      • 549 posts | 181 
      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #701: Dec 11, 2017 10:04:25 am
      Don't think the selection (surprise though it was) cost us the game.  When you actually look at what Everton contributed to the match going forward (the Rooney ball through aside), all they did was hoof it forward hopefully, looking for a flick.  They were embarrassing in their approach!  Liverpool dominated from start to finish, played all the football, created all the chances & good situations, but made some bad decisions (Mane wanted shooting for not squaring to one of three players with an open goal).  Salah should have scored with the headed chance and had a great game. 

      I was screaming for Solanke to come off for Firmino after an hour as he'd been anonymous, so when Bobby was ready on 65 mins, I thought "great substitution".  When I saw Salah being hooked, I couldn't believe my eyes.  He should have stayed on until we got the second goal and then been rested.  Poor decision unless he'd picked up a niggle! 

      As for the pen, say what you like about Lovren, but the Everton guy leaned in to him and fell over.   Lovren's hand instinctively touched him, but was not a pen for me and I think Lovren being slated in this instance, is harsh on him.  We didn't look anything like as threatening going forward once Salah came off. 

      2 big points dropped, but the performance, by & large was a good one.  With the number of rotations Klopp's making, we continue to play quality football and create good chances/situations, whoever the personnel, so losing our minds whenever we fail to win (7 wins & 3 draws in last 10 matches) is just blowing things out of all proportion IMHO.  The league is all but done & dusted, but second is up for grabs and and a good run in the CL is still very possible.

      Things look pretty good from where I'm sitting.
      skamp
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #702: Dec 11, 2017 10:06:31 am
      If that's a penalty then football is dead.

      It always boils down to opinion but that isn't a shove or a push in my eyes. It's a blatant dive.

      I hate this saying in football that's creeped in over the last few years that the player 'has the right' to go down. That only applies to me when they have been blatantly tripped and they're stumbling trying to remain on their feet. That yesterday was just a joke though.

      If that happens in the street does DCL fall on the floor rolling around? No.

      There is some very slight contact yes but it's supposed to be a contact sport. It was obvious that DCL was looking for the penalty and the ref should be seeing straight through that.

      As I said, if it was the other way round and DCL used his arm to shield Lovren away and if Lovren fell to the floor then it wouldn't be a foul. So why is it a foul when it happens to the attacker?
      From that angle, the ref gives it.  When you see it from the other side (in front of the players), it looks completely different.
      heimdall
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #703: Dec 11, 2017 10:14:47 am

      That was embarrassing form the boss, I bet he feels a proper tit this morning. It was a soft penalty but it was a penalty all day every day, sometimes you have to admit when you are wrong. I think this highlighted some of the failings of Jürgen, in that he is quite insecure as a person mixed with being quite arrogant. Hopefully its another thing he'll learn from ;-)
      heimdall
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #704: Dec 11, 2017 10:22:45 am
      Just finished watching.

      Never a pen in a million years. One of the worst refs in the league (in the world?) and I cringe when I see him assigned to our game. He’s a soft turd of a man that allows himself to be influenced by players and the crowd.

      That said, Lovren should have never let his man get in that position to start with.

      We had plenty of firepower to win that game and to be fair, Mane should have gone off instead of Salah and Firmino should probably have started. What a wasteful and stupid decision to not pass that ball right before half. Was a sure goal. Would have looked great had we pulled it out, but drawing at home to a team that’s so weak as that Everton squad is pretty depressing.

      Anti-football wins again for some reason. We need video review for penalty decisions. Stupid to drop points because of an incompetent ref.

      If the ref was influenced by the crowd then surely he wouldn't have given the penalty or am I missing something here? It was a soft penalty but a defender cannot put his hands on the back of a player like that, its asking for trouble and naive defending.
      heimdall
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #705: Dec 11, 2017 10:27:20 am
      What is clear there is the movement into Lovren. Not a push from Lovren.

      I agree that he moves in to Lovren, but Lovren's looks to be pushing him away with his hand, especially in real time. If you slow it down it is quite clear that the bitter is playing for the penalty (very cleverly by the way, its a beautiful move by him).
      This is one of the many reasons why we have to get video refereeing into football, every penalty claim like this should be reviewed. IN this case even with video refereeing I think it would be 50-50 whether or not its given. Lovren simply must not use his hands or arms in any way in that kind of situation and I'm sure he knows that himself.
      heimdall
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #706: Dec 11, 2017 10:30:08 am
      Anyway, nice to see Ings get a run out on a football pitch

      Was nice yes but it would have been as nice to see a fan get a run out for all the good he did. I feel for the lad but he simply is not at the required quality and I'm starting to have my doubts over Solanke as well.
      Rush
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      • "If you are second, you are nothing."
      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #707: Dec 11, 2017 10:32:59 am
      Was nice yes but it would have been as nice to see a fan get a run out for all the good he did. I feel for the lad but he simply is not at the required quality and I'm starting to have my doubts over Solanke as well.
      I think the problem with Solanke is we don't play to his strengths. He's an old-fashioned big 'English' centre-forward who can head the ball and hold the ball up. The problem is, he's playing in a team where the forwards interchange, are mobile, and are all over the final third. It's the same reason he wouldn't fit into the system Rodgers used. That said, I think I can see why Klopp picked him, it was because he's big, strong, and wouldn't get bullied off the ball, and you need that in a local derby. Just don't think it worked.
      skamp
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #708: Dec 11, 2017 10:34:58 am
      If that was a foul then Salah’s goal shouldn’t have counted because he did worse to the defender to win the ball in the box.
      THIS 100%
      Rush
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      • "If you are second, you are nothing."
      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #709: Dec 11, 2017 10:39:35 am
      To be honest, I'm more annoyed at Mane and his skewed shot when he had two free players standing about 12 foot from an empty goal
      racerx34
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #710: Dec 11, 2017 11:07:23 am
      If you're going to criticise Lovren for a player jumping into him and conning the ref,
      you'd be better asking why Mane didn't square the ball in to either Salah or AOC,
      or why there were so many changes made to the game.

      If Mane squares the ball it's 2-0 and game over.
      If the strongest team starts then players can be subbed off early after the damage is done.

      Lovren not really the first one I'd point fingers at.
      Ref blinded by the player in between him and the incident.
      FL Red
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #711: Dec 11, 2017 12:21:34 pm
      If the ref was influenced by the crowd then surely he wouldn't have given the penalty or am I missing something here? It was a soft penalty but a defender cannot put his hands on the back of a player like that, its asking for trouble and naive defending.

      It happened right near the Everton traveling support.......
      Fourbrick
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #712: Dec 11, 2017 12:35:49 pm
      What really p**ses me off is that Fart brain allowed Shrek to get his one and only goal at Anfield. Worse than drawing.
      HamannsTheMan
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      • 2,355 posts | 1383 
      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #713: Dec 11, 2017 12:40:15 pm
      What really p**ses me off is that Fart brain allowed Shrek to get his one and only goal at Anfield. Worse than drawing.

      Pretty sure he's bagged here before.

      Didn't somebody throw a Nokia 3210 at him once after he scored infront of the kop and he picked it up and pretended to eat it?

      Probably did eat it the fat f**k.
      Pippen
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      • 692 posts | 46 
      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #714: Dec 11, 2017 12:52:50 pm
      Klopp is just right and here's an almost mathematical proof: Suppose Lovren did foul there. Then 15-20 actions within the game that went uncalled should have been yellow/red cards by comparison. What are the odds the ref gets it wrong 15-20 times but one time versus vice versa? Case closed.

      The only interesting question is how probable it is that some powerful forces con the league by smearing the officials. Let's say I wouldn't be surprised a bit if one day someone would reveal something....
      Mickred
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #715: Dec 11, 2017 01:25:52 pm
      the penalty was soft at the best (despite what fat sam says). I understand rotating players at this time of year especially, but i think Klopp should have kept the fab Four together and changed against West Brom.

      Also, if only Mane had squared the ball, we would have been 2-0 at half time and a different story.

      having said that, we had enough chances to win this so only ourselves to blame.

      YNWA
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 11,958 posts | 2487 
      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #716: Dec 11, 2017 01:47:50 pm
      Oh sh*t, yeah, you are right! What a f**king joke.

      There was another incident I remember after the goal, we attacked on the right, Gomez/Ox crossed and Solanke was pushed just before his flick on which ended wide for a goal kick.

      Solanke was being fouled by Williams for the entire match; little pushes, shoves, nudges which stopped him making the runs he wanted to.
      In other words, just enough to knock him off balance.
      If Solanke had been a bit more savvy, he'd have gone down a couple of times and had a moan to the ref, which would have stopped the more blatant stuff.

      If he wants a physical battle with a CB, then all well and good, but he got distracted by the little fouls and niggles, and that means he still has a lot to learn.
      Shabs
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #717: Dec 11, 2017 01:58:17 pm
      I would have loved to see the fab 4 start & not see Salah coming off..
      tezmac
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #718: Dec 11, 2017 02:17:56 pm
      Taking Salah off was ridiculous from Klopp he knows we can't defend a 1 goal lead
      harrydunn08
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #719: Dec 11, 2017 08:53:56 pm
      To be honest, I'm more annoyed at Mane and his skewed shot when he had two free players standing about 12 foot from an empty goal

      This.  Watching it, I was sure he'd square the ball for the tap in.  When he skewed his shot wide, my exact words were, "We may regret that."  45 minutes later and we did indeed regret that decision.... 

      Don't get me wrong, Sadio has won us many more points than he's lost us, but that was a selfish decision.  Hopefully next time he will do the right thing. 

      Sh*t decision for the pen, but it happens.  I'd say we drop an average of 6 to 8 points a season from sh*t decisions (soft reds and soft pens).  We also occasionally benefit from a sh*t decision but right now I can't remember the last one that went our way.....
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Liverpool 1-1 Neverton: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #720: Dec 11, 2017 08:59:20 pm
      Solanke was being fouled by Williams for the entire match; little pushes, shoves, nudges which stopped him making the runs he wanted to.
      In other words, just enough to knock him off balance.
      If Solanke had been a bit more savvy, he'd have gone down a couple of times and had a moan to the ref, which would have stopped the more blatant stuff.

      If he wants a physical battle with a CB, then all well and good, but he got distracted by the little fouls and niggles, and that means he still has a lot to learn.

      Exactly right, I thought it was a great learning experience for Solanke. He'll face none of this negative footy in the games he's played and as such it will be alien to him and a wake-up call for what he'll be expecting and expected to produce quality in difficult circumstances.

      If Mane scores or passes and we get the 2nd and go on to win that Dom gets to stay on the pitch for the full 90 and it would have been a masterstroke of coaching and developing at the right time, as it is the questions are getting asked which is fair enough but those asking the questions should still remember that Jürgen will invest time in Solanke as he's a clear talent and this was very nearly an excellent time.

      Without the LC to play for the lad is going to be screaming for minutes and I feel for both Jürgen and Dom on this one because while I thought Dom was poor, the benefit of this difficult experience wasn't lost on me and we'll see better from him next time he's asked to do a similar job, of that I'm sure.

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