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      The goalkeeper situation

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      With Hope In My Heart
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #230: Jan 20, 2018 02:14:50 pm


      Migs The Blunderman playing in the ressies for the rest of the season.



      Sure about that? I take Klopp's "Loris needs to deliver and he knows that," statement as 'Make too many blunders and you're dropped'.

      chats
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #231: Jan 20, 2018 03:20:14 pm
      We havent had a world class keeper here since 81. We had 2 good ones in that time but not world class.

      Million miles from having one at tge minute

      I'd say peak Pepe Reina was world class. Certainly better than just 'good'.

      Think the fact that Casillas was around internationally and Cech was around in the Premier League made people notice Reina less but to me at least he was world class at his peak.
      Boston not la
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #232: Jan 20, 2018 03:46:20 pm
      We all got what we wanted.

      Migs The Blunderman playing in the ressies for the rest of the season... if we don't sell him in the next week.
       

      He's not getting in the ressies team mate,Kamil Grabara is solid.
      JC16
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #233: Jan 20, 2018 04:27:20 pm
      there is good keepers out there.
      there is good grammar out there 😂😂

      ConzS
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #234: Jan 20, 2018 11:43:58 pm
      there is good grammar out there 😂😂
      their are good grammar out they’re, your right.
      Magillionare
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #235: Jan 21, 2018 12:10:54 am
      there is good keepers out there.

      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #236: Jan 21, 2018 01:19:30 am
      Might rectify it? I'd hope so, I would like trophies.

      Haven't you ever seen Liverpool win trophies?

      Feel for you fella!!
      Muzzman1969
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #237: Jan 21, 2018 01:19:38 am
      Karius has no excuses now - he will be given the chance and must take it.  He is relatively young for a keeper, so has the room to develop, whereas at his age Migs is as good as he is going to get.

      With both of them it seems it is another case of the players not performing in the way that got them here in the first place.  I was always quite happy with Migs when we bought him as he had always looked pretty good for Sunderland (what I had seen of him), but unfortunately for whatever reason he has not developed into the keeper he has all the attributes to be.  It is not the first time we have bought a player who has not lived up to their billing and it possibly won't be the last.

      However, in Klopp we seem to have a manager who knows what/who he wants and is prepared to wait until he gets that player, so I am not expecting any rush buys.
      heimdall
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #238: Jan 21, 2018 05:47:17 am
      there is good keepers out there.

      Who have presumably all handed in transfer requests, just for fun can you please list them for us.
      Roz51
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #239: Jan 22, 2018 01:30:43 pm
      Personally I agree with Klopp here.

      Mignolet isn't good enough to be the 1st choice keeper, Karius probably isn't good enough now but has more potential.

      So it makes sense to accept Mignolet as back up (or sell him if he wants to go) and give Karius a solid run until the end of the season to prove himself.
      If Karius does well and shows improvement, then he's the 1st choice keeper. If not then we try to sign someone like Alisson in the summer
      skamp
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #240: Jan 22, 2018 01:44:39 pm
      Maybe he didn't play Mignolet to not cup tie him, so he can be flogged off.
      Are you seriously implying that a team still in the CL might buy him??!!!!!
      leosc
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #241: Jan 22, 2018 05:10:09 pm
      Yep, no CL will buy him.

      And I believe he is cup-tied, as he was part of the CL squad even if he didn't play.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #242: Jan 28, 2018 11:23:35 pm
      Goalkeepers are easy to blame. It is simple to point the finger at the last line of defence, even for former professionals who are now pundits.

      I am happy for people to be critical, to give an opinion — I do it myself on TV and radio — but more often than not I find the assessments of goalkeeping, a specialist position, are cheap throw-aways or inaccurate.

      Last season’s Champions League final was a prime example. Mario Mandzukic scored for Juventus with a shot that went over Real Madrid goalkeeper Keylor Navas. In the TV studio, two respected former internationals said Navas had been showing off — rather than prioritising the save — by going for the ball with his top hand.

      I was baffled by their lack of understanding. There is a logical biomechanical reason goalkeepers reach for the ball like that. When diving, at a certain height and body position, you can reach further with your top hand.

      Yet the guys in the studio said Navas had been show-boating. That is lame and if you do not know some of the basic technical elements of goalkeeping, then it is best not to comment.

      I am not the oracle on football but some of the punditry on my position is bemusing.

      I have found that if one person says something about a keeper, the others tend to agree rather than challenge. The tendency is to go with the opinion on the table rather than form their own.

      Liverpool’s Simon Mignolet has been this season’s whipping boy. He has made mistakes — just as I did numerous times during my 22-year career. But a lot of the time he is unfairly criticised.

      People do not recognise when he plays well because it does not fit the story. When Liverpool were very close to winning the league in 2013-14, Mignolet was a key man. Now people are jumping on the bandwagon and, instead of analysing the goals that Liverpool concede, the stock comment is that they will never win the title because he is not good enough.

      That is unfair. You expect it from people on social media, but not former players.

      Liverpool are a very attack-minded team but when it breaks down there is little cover from the three, four or even five men who have joined the attack.

      There are times when Mignolet could have played better but nobody points out that any goalkeeper is going to be put under extreme pressure because of the system the team play.


      At the other extreme, this season has been a David de Gea love-in. One person says he is world-class and everyone nods their heads without any analysis.

      David is a very good goalkeeper. He is world-class with his reflexes and makes exceptional saves but, when you break it down, I do not think he is the best because of two other areas of a goalkeeper’s game: dominating the 18-yard box and sweeping up behind the defence. He is good with the ball at his feet but I do not think he uses it enough.

      By a small margin, Manuel Neuer is the best because he is the complete keeper. He is exceptional on his line, brilliant at dominating his penalty area and awesome at playing a high line.

      But you rarely hear a discussion with the same level of expertise as when pundits talk about Kevin De Bruyne or Mo Salah. Too often, the viewer would switch off the TV thinking De Gea was the best in the world and Mignolet the worst. Neither is true.

      I have had a lot of conversations with pundits after we have gone off-air. On-air, they have an opinion which can be quite scathing of goalkeeping. Then afterwards they will say, ‘You know better than me, I’ve got no clue really.’

      I can see why both Liverpool keepers — Mignolet and Loris Karius — have been miffed at their treatment. Criticism is something you accept and expect as a goalkeeper, it is the nature of the role, but not when it is vicious, disrespectful and has an agenda.Particularly when it is from former players you know would not have been able to handle that kind of criticism themselves.

      A lot of pundits want a response and the publicity. It is ironic that if a goalkeeper does not attempt to reach a shot, he is almost let off. The view will be: ‘He had no chance’. Yet if he does well to get a decent hand on it, they will say he should have saved it! That cannot be right and underlines a lack of expertise on the position.

      I do not get it. Maybe it is just a case of ‘goalkeepers are different’ and the position is misunderstood.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5322663/SCHWARZER-pundits-know-goalkeeping.html

      Good read ish.. i think ;D, but I don't remember Migs being a key player during the 13/14 season. I recall vaguely he costing us around 6 points ish? But I also remember that last min ish pen vs Stoke (or Sunderland) at home where we won 1-0.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #243: Jan 28, 2018 11:36:39 pm
      Goalkeepers are easy to blame. It is simple to point the finger at the last line of defence, even for former professionals who are now pundits.

      I am happy for people to be critical, to give an opinion — I do it myself on TV and radio — but more often than not I find the assessments of goalkeeping, a specialist position, are cheap throw-aways or inaccurate.

      Last season’s Champions League final was a prime example. Mario Mandzukic scored for Juventus with a shot that went over Real Madrid goalkeeper Keylor Navas. In the TV studio, two respected former internationals said Navas had been showing off — rather than prioritising the save — by going for the ball with his top hand.

      I was baffled by their lack of understanding. There is a logical biomechanical reason goalkeepers reach for the ball like that. When diving, at a certain height and body position, you can reach further with your top hand.

      Yet the guys in the studio said Navas had been show-boating. That is lame and if you do not know some of the basic technical elements of goalkeeping, then it is best not to comment.

      I am not the oracle on football but some of the punditry on my position is bemusing.

      I have found that if one person says something about a keeper, the others tend to agree rather than challenge. The tendency is to go with the opinion on the table rather than form their own.

      Liverpool’s Simon Mignolet has been this season’s whipping boy. He has made mistakes — just as I did numerous times during my 22-year career. But a lot of the time he is unfairly criticised.

      People do not recognise when he plays well because it does not fit the story. When Liverpool were very close to winning the league in 2013-14, Mignolet was a key man. Now people are jumping on the bandwagon and, instead of analysing the goals that Liverpool concede, the stock comment is that they will never win the title because he is not good enough.

      That is unfair. You expect it from people on social media, but not former players.

      Liverpool are a very attack-minded team but when it breaks down there is little cover from the three, four or even five men who have joined the attack.

      There are times when Mignolet could have played better but nobody points out that any goalkeeper is going to be put under extreme pressure because of the system the team play.


      At the other extreme, this season has been a David de Gea love-in. One person says he is world-class and everyone nods their heads without any analysis.

      David is a very good goalkeeper. He is world-class with his reflexes and makes exceptional saves but, when you break it down, I do not think he is the best because of two other areas of a goalkeeper’s game: dominating the 18-yard box and sweeping up behind the defence. He is good with the ball at his feet but I do not think he uses it enough.

      By a small margin, Manuel Neuer is the best because he is the complete keeper. He is exceptional on his line, brilliant at dominating his penalty area and awesome at playing a high line.

      But you rarely hear a discussion with the same level of expertise as when pundits talk about Kevin De Bruyne or Mo Salah. Too often, the viewer would switch off the TV thinking De Gea was the best in the world and Mignolet the worst. Neither is true.

      I have had a lot of conversations with pundits after we have gone off-air. On-air, they have an opinion which can be quite scathing of goalkeeping. Then afterwards they will say, ‘You know better than me, I’ve got no clue really.’

      I can see why both Liverpool keepers — Mignolet and Loris Karius — have been miffed at their treatment. Criticism is something you accept and expect as a goalkeeper, it is the nature of the role, but not when it is vicious, disrespectful and has an agenda.Particularly when it is from former players you know would not have been able to handle that kind of criticism themselves.

      A lot of pundits want a response and the publicity. It is ironic that if a goalkeeper does not attempt to reach a shot, he is almost let off. The view will be: ‘He had no chance’. Yet if he does well to get a decent hand on it, they will say he should have saved it! That cannot be right and underlines a lack of expertise on the position.

      I do not get it. Maybe it is just a case of ‘goalkeepers are different’ and the position is misunderstood.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5322663/SCHWARZER-pundits-know-goalkeeping.html

      Good read ish.. i think ;D, but I don't remember Migs being a key player during the 13/14 season. I recall vaguely he costing us around 6 points ish? But I also remember that last min ish pen vs Stoke (or Sunderland) at home where we won 1-0.
      it's a load of crap.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #244: Jan 28, 2018 11:53:22 pm
      Goalkeepers are easy to blame. It is simple to point the finger at the last line of defence, even for former professionals who are now pundits.

      I am happy for people to be critical, to give an opinion — I do it myself on TV and radio — but more often than not I find the assessments of goalkeeping, a specialist position, are cheap throw-aways or inaccurate.

      Last season’s Champions League final was a prime example. Mario Mandzukic scored for Juventus with a shot that went over Real Madrid goalkeeper Keylor Navas. In the TV studio, two respected former internationals said Navas had been showing off — rather than prioritising the save — by going for the ball with his top hand.

      I was baffled by their lack of understanding. There is a logical biomechanical reason goalkeepers reach for the ball like that. When diving, at a certain height and body position, you can reach further with your top hand.

      Yet the guys in the studio said Navas had been show-boating. That is lame and if you do not know some of the basic technical elements of goalkeeping, then it is best not to comment.

      I am not the oracle on football but some of the punditry on my position is bemusing.

      I have found that if one person says something about a keeper, the others tend to agree rather than challenge. The tendency is to go with the opinion on the table rather than form their own.

      Liverpool’s Simon Mignolet has been this season’s whipping boy. He has made mistakes — just as I did numerous times during my 22-year career. But a lot of the time he is unfairly criticised.

      People do not recognise when he plays well because it does not fit the story. When Liverpool were very close to winning the league in 2013-14, Mignolet was a key man. Now people are jumping on the bandwagon and, instead of analysing the goals that Liverpool concede, the stock comment is that they will never win the title because he is not good enough.

      That is unfair. You expect it from people on social media, but not former players.

      Liverpool are a very attack-minded team but when it breaks down there is little cover from the three, four or even five men who have joined the attack.

      There are times when Mignolet could have played better but nobody points out that any goalkeeper is going to be put under extreme pressure because of the system the team play.


      At the other extreme, this season has been a David de Gea love-in. One person says he is world-class and everyone nods their heads without any analysis.

      David is a very good goalkeeper. He is world-class with his reflexes and makes exceptional saves but, when you break it down, I do not think he is the best because of two other areas of a goalkeeper’s game: dominating the 18-yard box and sweeping up behind the defence. He is good with the ball at his feet but I do not think he uses it enough.

      By a small margin, Manuel Neuer is the best because he is the complete keeper. He is exceptional on his line, brilliant at dominating his penalty area and awesome at playing a high line.

      But you rarely hear a discussion with the same level of expertise as when pundits talk about Kevin De Bruyne or Mo Salah. Too often, the viewer would switch off the TV thinking De Gea was the best in the world and Mignolet the worst. Neither is true.

      I have had a lot of conversations with pundits after we have gone off-air. On-air, they have an opinion which can be quite scathing of goalkeeping. Then afterwards they will say, ‘You know better than me, I’ve got no clue really.’

      I can see why both Liverpool keepers — Mignolet and Loris Karius — have been miffed at their treatment. Criticism is something you accept and expect as a goalkeeper, it is the nature of the role, but not when it is vicious, disrespectful and has an agenda.Particularly when it is from former players you know would not have been able to handle that kind of criticism themselves.

      A lot of pundits want a response and the publicity. It is ironic that if a goalkeeper does not attempt to reach a shot, he is almost let off. The view will be: ‘He had no chance’. Yet if he does well to get a decent hand on it, they will say he should have saved it! That cannot be right and underlines a lack of expertise on the position.

      I do not get it. Maybe it is just a case of ‘goalkeepers are different’ and the position is misunderstood.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5322663/SCHWARZER-pundits-know-goalkeeping.html

      Good read ish.. i think ;D, but I don't remember Migs being a key player during the 13/14 season. I recall vaguely he costing us around 6 points ish? But I also remember that last min ish pen vs Stoke (or Sunderland) at home where we won 1-0.

      What that piece forgets to point out, is that as a key man in our title run in, he was starting to look a bit shaky from mid-March onwards.

      The pen was on his debut, fair play won us the points that day, but overall he's probably cost us more points than he's won for us.

      And just for balance I was bigging him up this time last year around the time we played the mancs away, actually thought he had a good game that day, but he's been here 5 years and imo time to move him on.
      Danzel
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #245: Jan 29, 2018 12:00:03 am
      Goalkeepers are easy to blame. It is simple to point the finger at the last line of defence, even for former professionals who are now pundits.

      I am happy for people to be critical, to give an opinion — I do it myself on TV and radio — but more often than not I find the assessments of goalkeeping, a specialist position, are cheap throw-aways or inaccurate.

      Last season’s Champions League final was a prime example. Mario Mandzukic scored for Juventus with a shot that went over Real Madrid goalkeeper Keylor Navas. In the TV studio, two respected former internationals said Navas had been showing off — rather than prioritising the save — by going for the ball with his top hand.

      I was baffled by their lack of understanding. There is a logical biomechanical reason goalkeepers reach for the ball like that. When diving, at a certain height and body position, you can reach further with your top hand.

      Yet the guys in the studio said Navas had been show-boating. That is lame and if you do not know some of the basic technical elements of goalkeeping, then it is best not to comment.

      I am not the oracle on football but some of the punditry on my position is bemusing.

      I have found that if one person says something about a keeper, the others tend to agree rather than challenge. The tendency is to go with the opinion on the table rather than form their own.

      Liverpool’s Simon Mignolet has been this season’s whipping boy. He has made mistakes — just as I did numerous times during my 22-year career. But a lot of the time he is unfairly criticised.

      People do not recognise when he plays well because it does not fit the story. When Liverpool were very close to winning the league in 2013-14, Mignolet was a key man. Now people are jumping on the bandwagon and, instead of analysing the goals that Liverpool concede, the stock comment is that they will never win the title because he is not good enough.

      That is unfair. You expect it from people on social media, but not former players.

      Liverpool are a very attack-minded team but when it breaks down there is little cover from the three, four or even five men who have joined the attack.

      There are times when Mignolet could have played better but nobody points out that any goalkeeper is going to be put under extreme pressure because of the system the team play.


      At the other extreme, this season has been a David de Gea love-in. One person says he is world-class and everyone nods their heads without any analysis.

      David is a very good goalkeeper. He is world-class with his reflexes and makes exceptional saves but, when you break it down, I do not think he is the best because of two other areas of a goalkeeper’s game: dominating the 18-yard box and sweeping up behind the defence. He is good with the ball at his feet but I do not think he uses it enough.

      By a small margin, Manuel Neuer is the best because he is the complete keeper. He is exceptional on his line, brilliant at dominating his penalty area and awesome at playing a high line.

      But you rarely hear a discussion with the same level of expertise as when pundits talk about Kevin De Bruyne or Mo Salah. Too often, the viewer would switch off the TV thinking De Gea was the best in the world and Mignolet the worst. Neither is true.

      I have had a lot of conversations with pundits after we have gone off-air. On-air, they have an opinion which can be quite scathing of goalkeeping. Then afterwards they will say, ‘You know better than me, I’ve got no clue really.’

      I can see why both Liverpool keepers — Mignolet and Loris Karius — have been miffed at their treatment. Criticism is something you accept and expect as a goalkeeper, it is the nature of the role, but not when it is vicious, disrespectful and has an agenda.Particularly when it is from former players you know would not have been able to handle that kind of criticism themselves.

      A lot of pundits want a response and the publicity. It is ironic that if a goalkeeper does not attempt to reach a shot, he is almost let off. The view will be: ‘He had no chance’. Yet if he does well to get a decent hand on it, they will say he should have saved it! That cannot be right and underlines a lack of expertise on the position.

      I do not get it. Maybe it is just a case of ‘goalkeepers are different’ and the position is misunderstood.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5322663/SCHWARZER-pundits-know-goalkeeping.html

      Good read ish.. i think ;D, but I don't remember Migs being a key player during the 13/14 season. I recall vaguely he costing us around 6 points ish? But I also remember that last min ish pen vs Stoke (or Sunderland) at home where we won 1-0.

      Decent read indeed and this bit stood out the most for me:

      "I can see why both Liverpool keepers — Mignolet and Loris Karius — have been miffed at their treatment. Criticism is something you accept and expect as a goalkeeper, it is the nature of the role, but not when it is vicious, disrespectful and has an agenda. Particularly when it is from former players you know would not have been able to handle that kind of criticism themselves."

      Former players who haven't been goalkeepers have no business criticising goalkeepers when they don't know what they're talking about. I remember one pundit blaming Mignolet and analysing him for Jagielka's wonder strike at Anfield a few seasons ago. Complete bullshit. Have someone like Schwarzer or Friedel on the show commenting on goalkeepers, not f**king Jenas, the Neville brothers or other idiots.

      I've been one to occasionally defend both Karius and Mignolet, as I have on this topic aswell showing from which areas we usually concede goals and whether we shouldn't be looking at our midfield and defence rather than the goalkeeper as the biggest issue.

      While I disagree with him about Mignolet having been a key man in the 13-14 season, I do agree with the majority of the rest of the interview. On Saturday we again conceded three goals and again Mignolet's name pops up for no apparent reason. All three goals were mistakes made in midfield and in defence, not mistakes by Mignolet. The disallowed goal was poor of course, but that's why the rule is there and why it was rightfully disallowed. It's the same with Moreno. People too easily resort to the usual scapegoats. Moreno had nothing to do with the three goals we conceded.

      As Schwarzer says, Mignolet has made mistakes, but the way some people talk about him (vicious and disrespectful as he rightly says) is way over the top and just downright ridiculous.

      Before someone gets on his high horse, I fully agree that Mignolet is an average (Not by far the worst in the league) goalkeeper and that we need to replace him. Either it will be Karius or we bring in someone new in the summer.


      It's an expert opinion by a goalkeeper who has played over 500 games on the highest level. If that's a load of crap, then what do you want to call the sh*t you come out with on a daily basis?
      « Last Edit: Jan 29, 2018 12:04:34 am by Danzel »
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #246: Jan 29, 2018 04:37:06 am
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: The goalkeeper situation
      Reply #247: Jan 29, 2018 08:16:30 am
      See Oblak has now kept 59 clean sheets in his first 100 games of La Liga, conceding just 54 goals.

      Also see Alisson made something like 9 first half saves too.

      Why do we have to put up with the sh*t we do from keepers and there are other teams with genuine, top class keepers.

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