Firmino and Holgate

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ucl-white-campus-tweet-christmas-apologise-snow-racism-lawn-university-college-london-a8110746.html%3f

Ffs, may as well go the whole f***in hog and ban the word WHITE !!

So no news on this then... ok.

Ffs, may as well go the whole f***in hog and ban the word WHITE !!

I love that those that call this an overreaction then extrapolate this out with an absurdly massive overreaction.

Black people were not given equal education for pretty much most of human history. Universities world wide still deal with issues of racism. Only in the last few years, I remember a story of a noose being hung around the neck of a statue of James Meredith at Ole Miss, along with a confederate flag. Black students still are harassed on campuses, especially in the age of Trump. How is it so hard to understand why the wording was deemed somewhat controversial, even if we're talking a different country?

I love that those that call this an overreaction then extrapolate this out with an absurdly massive overreaction.

Black people were not given equal education for pretty much most of human history. Universities world wide still deal with issues of racism. Only in the last few years, I remember a story of a noose being hung around the neck of a statue of James Meredith at Ole Miss, along with a confederate flag. Black students still are harassed on campuses, especially in the age of Trump. How is it so hard to understand why the wording was deemed somewhat controversial, even if we're talking a different country?

To be honest mate i don't think the ucl meant any harm, it was purely down to the fact it could have snowed heavily and they were simply saying the campus would be open regardless, just because they used the term white doesn't mean they were beind racist.

I believe most ppl knew what they meant !


YNWA

To be honest mate i don't think the ucl meant any harm, it was purely down to the fact it could have snowed heavily and they were simply saying the campus would be open regardless, just because they used the term white doesn't mean they were beind racist.

I believe most ppl knew what they meant !


YNWA

I completely agree with you, I don't think they meant any harm - unfortunately, history is that many people dreamed of white campuses in the sense of a racial divide, so the term is forever tainted. Those that do feel some offence to it shouldn't be made to feel bad about that either, it is what it is. If white people (and I'm so F***ing white I'm almost see-through) hadn't been such a sh*t c**t of a people for most of history, it wouldn't be a problem. But we decided to rape and pillage our way across every corner of the earth, and as such, those that were forced out and oppressed/entrapped/etc by said raping and pillaging are entitled to some grievance when certain terms are used, innocently or not - especially in a world when said racism still exists.

But by that logic surely you can never ever say or do anything because someone out there will take some perceived offense at whatever you say, it is becoming slightly absurd these days with celebs having to apologise for this that and the other on a daily basis.
Having said that there is of course a historic racist connection between monkey and black, but my question is, will that connection remain for all time? I am fairly sure that more black people these days see that link than white people do so does that perhaps mean that they are searching for racism where none exists and if that is true does not rather frustrate the real fight against racism?

Reading the last few posts in this thread I completely agree with what you're saying. People are taking things way out of proportion (a bit like in the flanno thread  ). Even your posts have been jumped all over and you're not even saying anything wrong or bad.

The world has gone soft and nobody knows the correct terms any more. People are losing their jobs daily because of it. Teachers, policemen, you name it.

I totally agree with you people are afraid to have a simple conversation now. People feel awkward because they're so afraid it will cause offence to somebody and a complaint will be made. I understand what you mean in that people are being forced to speak or talk a certain way or even like things that they may not personally feel comfortable with.

You're not even allowed to call a snowman a snowman any more for fucks sake. It's a snow person don't you know!!

The fuss over the H&M advert is ridiculous. Its usual to describe a boy of his age as a cheeky monkey but because he's black it's caused outrage. It's caused outrage by the same people who would have complained if a white boy was used in the advertisement too. Why aren't you using black children in your advertisements? Why aren't you using Muslim children in your advertisements etc etc.

It was an innocent mistake made by somebody, normal. If I saw a black child wearing that top in the street the thought wouldn't enter my mind. If it does enter somebodys head and theyre gobsmacked and offended by it then they are the problem, not people like you and I.

Look at Lewis Hamilton over Christmas. He uploaded a video of his young nephew wearing a princess dress. He was teasing his nephew on camera saying ha ha ha you're in a dress, boys don't wear dresses, is that what you asked Father Christmas for ?

The backlash he got off that was a joke and he was forced to delete the video and apologise to his millions of followers saying he meant no harm and he's sorry for the offence caused. His statement of apology was pathetic. So weak.

But he had all kinds of gender rights, gay rights, bullying campaigns, you name it swarming all over him saying he can wear what he wants and he shouldn't be bullied by you!!

Coincidentally, I posted a very similar video on my social media of my seven year old boy at Christmas too . My step daughter got a dancing game for the PlayStation. She put it on and started dancing around. I asked my lad if he wanted to join in and he said no that's for girls I'm playing on Fifa in my room.  Five minutes later I heard him giggling in her room so I crept upstairs and there he was dancing around in his undies having a great time so I uploaded a video with a caption of what he had said to me.

If one person commented on that in a negative way I'd have told them to get fu**ed. Lewis Hamilton should have done the same.

I completely agree with you, I don't think they meant any harm - unfortunately, history is that many people dreamed of white campuses in the sense of a racial divide, so the term is forever tainted. Those that do feel some offence to it shouldn't be made to feel bad about that either, it is what it is. If white people (and I'm so f**king white I'm almost see-through) hadn't been such a sh*t c**t of a people for most of history, it wouldn't be a problem. But we decided to rape and pillage our way across every corner of the earth, and as such, those that were forced out and oppressed/entrapped/etc by said raping and pillaging are entitled to some grievance when certain terms are used, innocently or not - especially in a world when said racism still exists.

True that, yet one of our supposed great leaders in the name of Churchill was indeed a bigger kunt than most, yet he's lamented as a  Great 'Briton' a world leader etc,

Its 'Unbelievable Jeff'


YNWA

I think even Trump fans and Russian bots have realised those have got a little old.

clearly :-)

Reading the last few posts in this thread I completely agree with what you're saying. People are taking things way out of proportion (a bit like in the flanno thread  ). Even your posts have been jumped all over and you're not even saying anything wrong or bad.

The world has gone soft and nobody knows the correct terms any more. People are losing their jobs daily because of it. Teachers, policemen, you name it.

I totally agree with you people are afraid to have a simple conversation now. People feel awkward because they're so afraid it will cause offence to somebody and a complaint will be made. I understand what you mean in that people are being forced to speak or talk a certain way or even like things that they may not personally feel comfortable with.

You're not even allowed to call a snowman a snowman any more for fucks sake. It's a snow person don't you know!!

The fuss over the H&M advert is ridiculous. Its usual to describe a boy of his age as a cheeky monkey but because he's black it's caused outrage. It's caused outrage by the same people who would have complained if a white boy was used in the advertisement too. Why aren't you using black children in your advertisements? Why aren't you using Muslim children in your advertisements etc etc.

It was an innocent mistake made by somebody, normal. If I saw a black child wearing that top in the street the thought wouldn't enter my mind. If it does enter somebodys head and theyre gobsmacked and offended by it then they are the problem, not people like you and I.

Look at Lewis Hamilton over Christmas. He uploaded a video of his young nephew wearing a princess dress. He was teasing his nephew on camera saying ha ha ha you're in a dress, boys don't wear dresses, is that what you asked Father Christmas for ?

The backlash he got off that was a joke and he was forced to delete the video and apologise to his millions of followers saying he meant no harm and he's sorry for the offence caused. His statement of apology was pathetic. So weak.

But he had all kinds of gender rights, gay rights, bullying campaigns, you name it swarming all over him saying he can wear what he wants and he shouldn't be bullied by you!!

Coincidentally, I posted a very similar video on my social media of my seven year old boy at Christmas too . My step daughter got a dancing game for the PlayStation. She put it on and started dancing around. I asked my lad if he wanted to join in and he said no that's for girls I'm playing on Fifa in my room.  Five minutes later I heard him giggling in her room so I crept upstairs and there he was dancing around in his undies having a great time so I uploaded a video with a caption of what he had said to me.

If one person commented on that in a negative way I'd have told them to get fu**ed. Lewis Hamilton should have done the same.

To be honest mate the vast majority of that agree with.

I'm not saying we live in a world where nothing can be said , far from it, in certain circles and with friends you can take the piss all we want..

But everything has it's own set of circumstances, literally every single situation.

The one with Lewis Hamilton, hadn't seen it to be honest or even heard of it, but Lewis Hamilton with the public nature of his life surely needs to be careful with that? Him saying that, taking the Mick within his own family walls isn't a problem, but he's leaving himself open to criticism by posting that t9 millions?
It was mentioned earlier about cross dressers or whatever.. the point being within your mates or your family who know you and know it's 'banter is fine.. but as said earlier why should someone who wants to crossdress  be publically humiliated? Or treated as a weirdo? And why should we be bothered?

I'm not saying Hamilton would or is so stay with me...

What I'm saying is 5% of his followers may think, sh*t Lewis thinks that's weird too and he's world champion... look at weird bloke there dressed as a woman.. I'm going to take the piss or whatever

So context is key.. Hamilton obviously meant no harm but others may do and he's posting it to f**k knows how many people

The point being with Hamilton is that things like that can be taken the wrong way or feed the minds of those who want to hurt others, and with so many people seeing it it wouldn't take many to have it feed their views that are more ingrained than a joke by a car driver.
That's why social media for these people has to be managed, because it can be misconstrued by some people and that helps feed the issue.
Not that he did wrong but it's how it can be taken

Me and my mates take the piss out of each other f**king rotten.. but we've been mates for 30 years.. we wouldn't put those conversations out to millions who may misconstrue them as our beliefs or take them as their own to people they don't know.

It's context in every situation

I'd need examples of people losing jobs daily because of it.. teachers or police?

I completely agree with you, I don't think they meant any harm - unfortunately, history is that many people dreamed of white campuses in the sense of a racial divide, so the term is forever tainted. Those that do feel some offence to it shouldn't be made to feel bad about that either, it is what it is. If white people (and I'm so f**king white I'm almost see-through) hadn't been such a sh*t c**t of a people for most of history, it wouldn't be a problem. But we decided to rape and pillage our way across every corner of the earth, and as such, those that were forced out and oppressed/entrapped/etc by said raping and pillaging are entitled to some grievance when certain terms are used, innocently or not - especially in a world when said racism still exists.

Sorry but that is utter nonsense, are you suggesting that black people will until the end of time be allowed to have a grievance against white colonialists even though there is already about 10 generations gap between the perpetrator and ancestor?
Well if we are playing that game then I as a Norwegian should have a big grievance against Sweden and Denmark who stole a lot of the wealth from Norway over many hundreds of years or perhaps I instead realise that my Norwegians forefathers campaigned for independence, won it and then went on to become one of the richest and fairest countries in the world.
The blame game is pointless, yes terrible awful things were done in the past but for f**k sake that happened to all people if you go far enough back, but most people have been able to move on when opportunity is presented to them which I think we can agree it now is to all colours, creeds and religions in the West.

True that, yet one of our supposed great leaders in the name of Churchill was indeed a bigger kunt than most, yet he's lamented as a  Great 'Briton' a world leader etc,

Its 'Unbelievable Jeff'


YNWA

Sorry but you'll have to lead me though your argument of why Churchill, who almost singlehandedly, until the US joined the war, held back Germany and the Nazi's, was a kunt. You do realise that if Germany had won then this rather entertaining discussion over race would be irrelevant don't you?
BTW yes I do know that Churchill was no angel but if there was ever a right man for the right time then he must be the perfect example.

It probably has derailed a thread.. and apologies for my part in that.

But as heimdall said I think it's been an interested debate, it's a difficult one but I think people have spoken well personally, no one has insulted anyone else over their view.

May need moving to a different thread but I've enjoyed the conversation 👍

Reading the last few posts in this thread I completely agree with what you're saying. People are taking things way out of proportion (a bit like in the flanno thread  ). Even your posts have been jumped all over and you're not even saying anything wrong or bad.

The world has gone soft and nobody knows the correct terms any more. People are losing their jobs daily because of it. Teachers, policemen, you name it.

I totally agree with you people are afraid to have a simple conversation now. People feel awkward because they're so afraid it will cause offence to somebody and a complaint will be made. I understand what you mean in that people are being forced to speak or talk a certain way or even like things that they may not personally feel comfortable with.

You're not even allowed to call a snowman a snowman any more for fucks sake. It's a snow person don't you know!!

The fuss over the H&M advert is ridiculous. Its usual to describe a boy of his age as a cheeky monkey but because he's black it's caused outrage. It's caused outrage by the same people who would have complained if a white boy was used in the advertisement too. Why aren't you using black children in your advertisements? Why aren't you using Muslim children in your advertisements etc etc.

It was an innocent mistake made by somebody, normal. If I saw a black child wearing that top in the street the thought wouldn't enter my mind. If it does enter somebodys head and theyre gobsmacked and offended by it then they are the problem, not people like you and I.

Look at Lewis Hamilton over Christmas. He uploaded a video of his young nephew wearing a princess dress. He was teasing his nephew on camera saying ha ha ha you're in a dress, boys don't wear dresses, is that what you asked Father Christmas for ?

The backlash he got off that was a joke and he was forced to delete the video and apologise to his millions of followers saying he meant no harm and he's sorry for the offence caused. His statement of apology was pathetic. So weak.

But he had all kinds of gender rights, gay rights, bullying campaigns, you name it swarming all over him saying he can wear what he wants and he shouldn't be bullied by you!!

Coincidentally, I posted a very similar video on my social media of my seven year old boy at Christmas too . My step daughter got a dancing game for the PlayStation. She put it on and started dancing around. I asked my lad if he wanted to join in and he said no that's for girls I'm playing on Fifa in my room.  Five minutes later I heard him giggling in her room so I crept upstairs and there he was dancing around in his undies having a great time so I uploaded a video with a caption of what he had said to me.

If one person commented on that in a negative way I'd have told them to get fu**ed. Lewis Hamilton should have done the same.

I actually agree with most of this ( not seen the Lewis Hamilton thing, so don't know about that, but sounds about right).

Basically it's another of the usual Tweedle-dee/Tweedle-dum routines that the our glorious world continually produces.

On the one hand, you've got over zealous politically correct types [ I don't mean on this thread though, I mean around ] looking for things to be offended about. On the other hand, you've got Daily Mail types scouring the world for instances of political correctness gone mad to blow out of proportion and get their knickers in a twist over.

Journalists seems to consist almost entirely of one group or the other.  And, in fact, the 2 can just as easily swap positions from one issue to the next, since they are both, in the end, fully in favour of telling everybody else what to think.

To be honest, I think the fact that practically every news story these days is a variation on this is mainly down to a panic in the media about their declining influence over public opinion. They are getting more and more desperate to insist on the need for somebody ( them) to save us from ourselves.

So... any new news just purely based on Firmino and Holgate?

So no news on this then... ok.

This is what happens when after playing every 3 days for a month Liverpool don't play for a week.

This is what happens when after playing every 3 days for a month Liverpool don't play for a week.

 

But it'll be a sad day if football fans stop discussing politics.

You know how many levels of sign off a national campaign like this would have to go through? And all are innocent enough not to have said, I'm not sure about this

They get paid well into 6 figures a year doing these jobs

Put it this way, you or me weren't offended, probably the absolute vast majority weren't. But did you not look at it and see the potential of how it could be viewed? Seriously? If we did they did

Again I wasn't offended by it, I thought it was stupid or opportunistic. Probably both

I did see where people could find some level of offence by it, but if people are going to be like this then life is going to be very difficult to get through, At the end of the day there is a difference between racism and what H&M did. People need to let these things go and live life

So......anything new re the FA review?

So......anything new re the FA review?

I haven't heard anything but hasn't the deadline been and gone now?

To be honest mate the vast majority of that agree with.

I'm not saying we live in a world where nothing can be said , far from it, in certain circles and with friends you can take the piss all we want..

But everything has it's own set of circumstances, literally every single situation.

The one with Lewis Hamilton, hadn't seen it to be honest or even heard of it, but Lewis Hamilton with the public nature of his life surely needs to be careful with that? Him saying that, taking the Mick within his own family walls isn't a problem, but he's leaving himself open to criticism by posting that t9 millions?
It was mentioned earlier about cross dressers or whatever.. the point being within your mates or your family who know you and know it's 'banter is fine.. but as said earlier why should someone who wants to crossdress  be publically humiliated? Or treated as a weirdo? And why should we be bothered?

I'm not saying Hamilton would or is so stay with me...

What I'm saying is 5% of his followers may think, sh*t Lewis thinks that's weird too and he's world champion... look at weird bloke there dressed as a woman.. I'm going to take the piss or whatever

So context is key.. Hamilton obviously meant no harm but others may do and he's posting it to f**k knows how many people

The point being with Hamilton is that things like that can be taken the wrong way or feed the minds of those who want to hurt others, and with so many people seeing it it wouldn't take many to have it feed their views that are more ingrained than a joke by a car driver.
That's why social media for these people has to be managed, because it can be misconstrued by some people and that helps feed the issue.
Not that he did wrong but it's how it can be taken

Me and my mates take the piss out of each other f**king rotten.. but we've been mates for 30 years.. we wouldn't put those conversations out to millions who may misconstrue them as our beliefs or take them as their own to people they don't know.

It's context in every situation

I'd need examples of people losing jobs daily because of it.. teachers or police?

I think Hamilton apologising did more harm than good and I personally would have liked to have read a different statement made by him along the lines of he's my nephew, not yours, I'll tease him if I want and he knows it's only joking and I love him dearly so why don't you all F**k off? But in a slightly nicer way.

Even though you haven't seen the video, you agree that from my description it isn't offensive. You said it's fine to tease his nephew over wearing a dress behind closed doors but not in the public eye incase somebody somewhere is offended. But that's exactly the problem. People are so easily offended nowadays that you're just not allowed to say anything. It's all gotten way out of hand and it could do with somebody like Hamilton to stand up and say this is all becoming a joke now.

If that video Hamilton posted online genuinely caused somebody some distress then they seriously need to grow up and man the F**k up. Am I allowed to say man the F**k up? I don't think I am!!

It won't be long until bill and Ben the flowerpot men become bill and Ben the gender neutrals.

It's the same thing over racism too. The fuss over the H&M advert was ridiculous in my opinion. My best mate of 25 years is black and his dad was white. If his dad dressed him in that top during our childhood nobody would have bat an eyelid. They'd have just taken it for what it is, a young boy wearing a cheeky monkey top because that's what we are at that age, cheeky monkeys.

Nowadays, like I said, your losing your job over it. Do you not think somebody at H&M will be sacked for that? Of course they will be.

Even look at Holgate now. He's potentially facing punishment over 'homophobic tweets' he made six years ago when he was 15 years old.  The tweets, I'm told, is Holgate referring to somebody as a fag.

Just my opinion but I think it's all just ridiculous.

This is what happens when after playing every 3 days for a month Liverpool don't play for a week.

But are there any new developments?

The longer this goes on the more i am getting worried

They only announced the Livermore thing yesterday so..http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42633557,Not sure whether to get involved in the rest of this discusion cos i hate threads going off topic.

They won't. He was 15 at the time, they'll just say he was a kid doing stupid things.

Sorry maybe should have been a bit clearer. I know he won’t be banned for that...though saying that, wasn’t Gray banned at the start of last season over comments he made years ago?

What I was actually getting a though, is he should be banned for the racism claim against Firmino.