Firmino and Holgate

1 - what the tv showed: "tá louco filho da puta" = are you crazy son of a ....
2 - i dont know if there's something else that tv did not show.
3 - people claiming he said "negrito"..this is 200% bs. Negrito is a Spanish word. Why would he start speaking Spanish in that moment? In order to made up things, people should at least to know that Brazilians speak Portuguese, not Spanish.

About point number 3 I was thinking that it could be a case where he uses that word, just like Suarez did, which is fairly common in Latin America and it’s not a racists thing to say, but I guess you guys in Brazil don’t use that word.

Firmino clearly called him a son of a bi*ch.

Holgate playing the race card hopefully he gets a ban the little sh*t.

If you watch replay of shove,seconds from colliding with the two Everton subs walking along touch line,that would have been interesting,also both Bobby and fans could have been injured,i said at the time Bobby should have been clever lay down fakeing injury milk the situation ,receive treatment,get the first aiders involved the crowd would have went mental putting ref under pressure to red card him,hard to say at time when Bobby was furious but sometimes you have to be clever at times.

he should have pretended to be unconscious, said that he banged his head and claimed concussion. Got subbed off, Asswipe would have been sent off for sure.

FA to investigate whether Everton's Mason Holgate was racially abused by Liverpool forward Roberto Firmino

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/05/fa-investigate-whether-evertons-mason-holgate-racially-abused/

The Football Association will investigate whether Everton defender Mason Holgate was racially abused by Liverpool’s Roberto Firmino in Friday  night’s Merseyside derby.

Liverpool’s 2-1 victory – secured via a debut goal from £75 million defender Virgil Van Dijk – was overshadowed by the first-half incident.

Referee Bobby Madley will report the circumstances to the FA in his match report and an investigation will follow. Liverpool responded saying they would fully co-operate with any investigation.

After Holgate and Firmino were involved in an altercation, the Everton defender could be seen on camera telling Madley he was the victim of a racist slur.

Madley then spoke with the fourth official, Jon Moss, to report the allegation. Madley also spoke with Holgate after the final whistle.

Manager Sam Allardyce indicated the matter would have to be assessed by the FA.

“I am telling you nothing until whatever systems are used to find out what happened or did not happen,” said the Everton coach.

“I am here to talk about football and anything outside that needs to be dealt with by the authorities. That is for other areas of the football club. I have left that with the director of football.”

Liverpool manager Jürgen Klopp said he was unaware of any claims against his player. He thought the disagreement concerned a shove by Holgate on the Brazilian.

“I don’t really know anything about it,” he said. “I misjudged it completely because I thought it was about a Holgate foul.  I thought they wanted to investigate the Holgate foul.”

Having been made aware the referee had referenced Holgate’s complaint in his match report, Liverpool then issued a statement: “The club and player will fully co-operate with the relevant authorities to ensure the facts are established in a thorough manner if deemed necessary or requested.”

Firmino clearly called him a son of a bi*ch.

Holgate playing the race card hopefully he gets a ban the little sh*t.

i wonder how damaging to ethnic minorities falsely claiming racism is. He's let a lot of people down I should imagine.

Hate playing everton. Remember what tw*tface did to origi, every f*ckin time they just want to ruin our season.

Hate playing everton. Remember what tw*tface did to origi, every f*ckin time they just want to ruin our season.

Remember how they lost to Man City on purpose and the crowd pretty much cheering the City goals in the 13/14 season? What a f**king sh*t club and probably on par with Utd.

I don't think we will get a repeat here of what happened with Suarez/Evra. That time, Commolli and Kenny naively came out and said that Suarez had used "negro" to Evra. They did this because Evra had said to French TV ( falsely as it turned out) that Suarez had repeatedly called him a "nigger". Kenny thought he was helping to clear up a misunderstanding but, once he'd admitted that Suarez had brought Evra's skin colour into it at all then it was always going to be hard to refute racism ( how they found Evra a reliable witness is another thing, and likewise the double standard with John Terry).

This time the club have kept quiet, so the onus is on Holgate/ the FA to prove racism. From the footage that looks pretty difficult. Plus the ref was actually standing between Holgate and Firmino and presumably heard nothing racist, or we would have to have dealt with it. If they are relying on something Holgate translated for himself from Portuguese, then, however much the FA might like it to be otherwise, I don't see it going much further.

i wonder how damaging to ethnic minorities falsely claiming racism is. He's let a lot of people down I should imagine.

 

I dunno if it's a false claim.Holgate thought he heard something and in that case was right to report it,just like Brewster did with the russian lad.Good thing for us is the ref is right there, i can't believe he would not have heard Firmino.As has been said Bobby was pissed and went off in portugese i don't think it's a natural instinct to change language mid rant.Hopefully the f.a gets this sorted asap.

Scum of a player bunch of thugs Holgate, Rooney and Macathey should have all been sent of same as last seasons home game, where Barklay and Williams should have walked utter scum

 

I dunno if it's a false claim.Holgate thought he heard something and in that case was right to report it,just like Brewster did with the russian lad.Good thing for us is the ref is right there, i can't believe he would not have heard Firmino.As has been said Bobby was pissed and went off in portugese i don't think it's a natural instinct to change language mid rant.Hopefully the f.a gets this sorted asap.

True. If a player thinks they've been racially abused then they are right to report it. We should keep an open mind and not just assume, on an us-and-them basis, that the lad is lying. He could be mistaken, or Firmino could in fact have said something racist. ( Fortunately, there doesn't seem much evidence of the latter so far though.)

 

I dunno if it's a false claim.Holgate thought he heard something and in that case was right to report it,just like Brewster did with the russian lad.Good thing for us is the ref is right there, i can't believe he would not have heard Firmino.As has been said Bobby was pissed and went off in portugese i don't think it's a natural instinct to change language mid rant.Hopefully the f.a gets this sorted asap.

total bollocks. How could anybody think they heard something racist unless they know the language.  In Germany the word gift means poison. I think people with German relatives must have a messy Christmas if they all tried to decipher foreign languages in relation to what it sounds like in English. Report something if sure, accusations are quite unfair without being certain. How would you like being accused of something you didn't do because someone was 65% sure, but realized that they were wrong? But in the mean time it's been allover the TV?

Firmino has done nothing wrong, I don't show bias either. I said Suarez was badly wrong in the Evra incident. No matter what people say in Uruguay, here in UK referring somebody to their skin colour  instead of name is racist in any language. The only exception is  if using it sensibly and sensitivity to describe someone. It's language and location that needs to be considered together. Firmino on the other hand didn't do anything racist when you translate what he said into English.

I think it was an honest mistake. Holgate looked pretty pissed off.

Do think ot was a mistake though. Firmino seemed to call him a son of a bi*ch.

While it's all come to light though Roberto might even get in trouble jist for a bit of swearing.

Remember Rooney geting done a few years back for swearing that was picked up on TV mics.

I think it was an honest mistake. Holgate looked pretty pissed off.

Do think ot was a mistake though. Firmino seemed to call him a son of a bi*ch.

While it's all come to light though Roberto might even get in trouble jist for a bit of swearing.

Remember Rooney geting done a few years back for swearing that was picked up on TV mics.

I don't care about swearing, what kind of example is it to push someone like that? I guess it's fine then and people can do it from now on because FA do f**k all. Maybe Firmino should call the police and file it under attempted bodily harm, I don't think FA have power to stop a police investigation and the evidence is clearly available. Just because it's football doesn't maje it legal.
How many people could do that at work and not expect to be arrested and charged?

I don't care about swearing, what kind of example is it to push someone like that? I guess it's fine then and people can do it from now on because FA do f**k all. Maybe Firmino should call the police and file it under attempted bodily harm, I don't think FA have power to stop a police investigation and the evidence is clearly available. Just because it's football doesn't it legal.

The puta word (in Spanish anyway) can be tricky, depending on the context. When you hear South American or Mexican crowds yelling it on every goal kick, it's been explained to me by South Americans that the context is an anti-gay slur. On the other hand, if he called him an SOB, that is something else entirely.

It was "filho da puta", which means "son of a bi*ch", a very usual insult when people are angry.

Puta means bi*ch/whore, what Spanish speaking football supporters in South America yell is "puto", which is in this case something offensive towards gays, like "faggot" or something like that (not sure of the best translation).

But Brazil is not a Spanish speaking country, and supporters don't yell that here. They yell "bicha" which is quite different.

It was very easy to read Firmino's lips at the time, I actually burst out laughing because it was a very usual angry reaction from a Brazilian, "cê tá louco?" is something like "are you crazy?" but kinda meaning "have you lost your F***ing mind?", as in "you must be nuts do to that to me" - there's a threat implied. "Filho da puta" is just that, son of a bi*ch, as common in Portuguese as "motherfucker" probably is in English.

What people have been saying is that Holgate supposedly reacts angrily at something said later, when you can't really see Firmino's lips. And there's a video somewhere on twitter that shows Holgate supposedly saying "he just called me nigger" to the referee.

Nigger isn't even a word in Portuguese, but of course Firmino could have changed from Portuguese to English at some point. No idea.

I do find it unlikely though.

I think it was an honest mistake. Holgate looked pretty pissed off.

Do think ot was a mistake though. Firmino seemed to call him a son of a bi*ch.

While it's all come to light though Roberto might even get in trouble jist for a bit of swearing.

Remember Rooney geting done a few years back for swearing that was picked up on TV mics.

That's just silly. Nothing was picked up on TV mics and there's worse than that said (and lip read) just about every match to the referees.

This is all much ado about nothing. Holgate knew he'd pushed his luck (literally) and thought he was going to get a red so he tried to create a distraction. Pretty smart actually except when all's said and done hopefully he's going to get rung up for lying.

1- he was speaking Portuguese
2- the ref was in the middle of them and didn’t hear it
3- no other player heard it
4- he has black team mates
5- holgate then deletes Twitter where he’s been homophobic
6- Fat Sam has nothing to say about it, and he is always moaning about something at any given chance

Holgate knew he fu**ed up with the push and is using this to deflect the attention off himself and onto Bobby.

Holgate deserves a slap for his push, cowardly action.

It was "filho da puta", which means "son of a bi*ch", a very usual insult when people are angry.

Puta means bi*ch/whore, what Spanish speaking football supporters in South America yell is "puto", which is in this case something offensive towards gays, like "faggot" or something like that (not sure of the best translation).

But Brazil is not a Spanish speaking country, and supporters don't yell that here. They yell "bicha" which is quite different.

It was very easy to read Firmino's lips at the time, I actually burst out laughing because it was a very usual angry reaction from a Brazilian, "cê tá louco?" is something like "are you crazy?" but kinda meaning "have you lost your f**king mind?", as in "you must be nuts do to that to me" - there's a threat implied. "Filho da puta" is just that, son of a bi*ch, as common in Portuguese as "motherfucker" probably is in English.

What people have been saying is that Holgate supposedly reacts angrily at something said later, when you can't really see Firmino's lips. And there's a video somewhere on twitter that shows Holgate supposedly saying "he just called me nigger" to the referee.

Nigger isn't even a word in Portuguese, but of course Firmino could have changed from Portuguese to English at some point. No idea.

I do find it unlikely though.

I'm sorry, you've lost me here.  You said "Puta means bi*ch/whore but in Spanish". As you point out, Brazil isn't a Spanish speaking country, it's Portuguese, so why would Firmino curse in Spanish? Surely he'd either do so in Portuguese or English? I'm not trying to be a smart arse or anything, I'm genuinely confused.

Filho da puta" is just that, son of a bi*ch, as common in Portuguese

He's saying, for those talking about people yelling Puto at football matches (like in Mexico) it means something different than what Puta means in Portuguese.

He's saying, for those talking about people yelling Puto at football matches (like in Mexico) it means something different than what Puta means in Portuguese.

I see. thanks. So "Filho da puta" is Portuguese not Spanish? That's the bit that confused me. I thought he was saying that was Spanish.

I'm sorry, you've lost me here.  You said "Puta means bi*ch/whore but in Spanish". As you point out, Brazil isn't a Spanish speaking country, it's Portuguese, so why would Firmino curse in Spanish? Surely he'd either do so in Portuguese or English? I'm not trying to be a smart arse or anything, I'm genuinely confused.

You misread me mate. I never said he was cursing in Spanish. I was just replying to the post I quoted which made reference to the use of "puto" by South American crowds.

The use of "puta" (in Portuguese) and "puto" (in Spanish) mean different things.

And Firmino did not say "puta" in isolation, he said "filho da puta", which means "son of a bi*ch"