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      Firmino and Holgate

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      Robby The Z
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #23: Jan 06, 2018 12:36:29 pm
      Racism or not (and I do believe for one second it was. what could Firmino, one black man say to Holgate, another black man that could cause offence...? You'r not as dark as me...?)

      The young man (Holgate) was embarrassed because he gave away a soft penalty, then got further embarrassed because  Firmino picked his pocket in such a tight area, and then held him off of the ball to go out of play,he then reacted before realizing what he had done, and only when his team mates pulled him away did it sink in and he started looking for excuses to save his own arse... He spat at me... He racially abused me...

      The FA needs to show some balls and leadership and give the young lad a three match band for violence conduct

      Even the Ten Commandments include one about not making stuff up about people.

      It all just depends on what he actually said.

      Question: is there a review of the shoving into the stand part as well?
      Scotia
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #24: Jan 06, 2018 12:41:30 pm
      F.A. will kill this.

      Appallingly inept refereeing from Bobby Madley caused whole situation. He should have been straight on Holgate and carded him, end of.

      If he does that Oor Boaby doesn’t get riled the same way.
      DanMann
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #25: Jan 06, 2018 12:41:48 pm
      https://twitter.com/Liddellpool/status/949395428721774592

      At the end of the clip, Matip boots Holgate in his face after his push >:D4

      Muppet. By pushing Matip in the back he ensures that Matip can't get a touch so VVD had a free header to score.

      Nice one Holgate!!!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #26: Jan 06, 2018 12:44:52 pm
      Increasingly, it seems what needs to happen here is for Everton and Holgate to come out and say something like "I now know that what he said to me was not racial in nature. In the heat of the moment blah blah blah." and put an end to it. That would be the right thing to do .

      What the FA does re the shove should be a separate matter, and it definitely should act.
      3rdJune1892
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #27: Jan 06, 2018 12:54:12 pm
      I guess the FA will come to their conclusion as to what was actually said after speaking to the ref and reviewing any other available evidence.

      Does anyone know if the ref's mic they use to communicate with the linesmen is recorded. Given Ref proximity that may have picked something up if so.

      If RF is found to have said something racist then LFC need to throw the book at him as we are asking others to do re: the abuse suffered by Rhian Brewster and others.

      Just hoping it's all a mistake / misunderstanding as RF has been superb recently.

      5timesacharm
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #28: Jan 06, 2018 12:55:16 pm
      does anyone know what he said? The Express has an article all about it must be racism, with not even a shred of proof other than Holgate got mad and all these tweets from who knows who saying "I bet it was Spanish racism" from our Portugese-speaking player.

      Look, if Bobby did say something racist he's going to pay the penalty, but i thought the result of the whole thing was going to be Holgate sent off. How he doesn't even get booked is hard to fathom.

      That's rich coming from Britain's most racist paper.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #29: Jan 06, 2018 12:57:56 pm
      Racism or not (and I do believe for one second it was. what could Firmino, one black man say to Holgate, another black man that could cause offence...? You'r not as dark as me...?)

      The young man (Holgate) was embarrassed because he gave away a soft penalty, then got further embarrassed because  Firmino picked his pocket in such a tight area, and then held him off of the ball to go out of play,he then reacted before realizing what he had done, and only when his team mates pulled him away did it sink in and he started looking for excuses to save his own arse... He spat at me... He racially abused me...

      The FA needs to show some balls and leadership and give the young lad a three match band for violence conduct

      Holgate is from Doncaster and no disrespect to him but it's unlikely that he understands Portuguese. But the FA will go thru their regulations and if they can fit Bobby up on some remote semantic link to an offense, they will do.

      The FA will also ignore the fact that Bobby was rightly incensed with anger and that prompted him to verbally abuse Holgate. Players square up to each other all the time and verbal abuse is common in most games. This incident smacks of Holgate not understanding Portuguese and trying it on.

      The Ref might have decided to let the FA sort it out and might have said in his report that an allegation of racism was made and he decided to leave it to the FA to act retrospectively. That's why he took no action against Holgate.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #30: Jan 06, 2018 01:08:10 pm
      Holgate is from Doncaster and no disrespect to him but it's unlikely that he understands Portuguese. But the FA will go thru their regulations and if they can fit Bobby up on some remote semantic link to an offense, they will do.

      The FA will also ignore the fact that Bobby was rightly incensed with anger and that prompted him to verbally abuse Holgate. Players square up to each other all the time and verbal abuse is common in most games. This incident smacks of Holgate not understanding Portuguese and trying it on.

      The Ref might have decided to let the FA sort it out and might have said in his report that an allegation of racism was made and he decided to leave it to the FA to act retrospectively. That's why he took no action against Holgate.

      I notice both Sam and Jürgen said afterward - the club will speak about this. There may already be an understanding of what has really happened and a mutual desire to put it to bed, without seeming like the don't take the overall issue of racial abuse seriously.

      It takes a big man to admit he is wrong, but he is better for it.
      grewalge
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #31: Jan 06, 2018 01:17:35 pm
      Did the ref or the linesman not see the shove ??? How did they give a throw in decision to us ? It’s abaolutley ridiculous, and Regardless of Bobby’s abuse, the push came first !! FA is so f**king useless I have no faith in them, and with the kick out racism campaign (which I support) they just need an inch. I have a horrible feeling that wrong lengthy ban is coming at Bobby. Which would be outrage. I just have no f**king faith in the FA
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #32: Jan 06, 2018 01:18:29 pm
      I notice both Sam and Jürgen said afterward - the club will speak about this. There may already be an understanding of what has really happened and a mutual desire to put it to bed, without seeming like the don't take the overall issue of racial abuse seriously.

      It takes a big man to admit he is wrong, but he is better for it.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42587318

      They claim the Ref said " he was made aware that an allegation was made"...that's why I think the Ref didn't act against Holgate.

      Said we will cooperate with the investigation. I think they will ban Hogate for 3 matches for the push. They will as I said find some reason to ban Bobby. Be surprised if they say Bobby has no case to answer.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #33: Jan 06, 2018 01:26:04 pm
      Holgate most certainly was wound up about some sh*t.
      The way he pushed our man over the barrier yards beyond the touchline was crazy, imagine somebody doing a similar thing to yourself for instance - the first reaction would be 'what the f**k are you on you f**king lunatic' which presumably Firmino uttered on confronting the madman.
      Absolutely justified with no explanation required.
      Totally agree, and if so wheres the racism in calling someone a Lunatic, crazy or a c**t

      BTW How was the X-Mas and New Years day for you and Yours...? Good I hope
      scotscouse
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #34: Jan 06, 2018 01:32:52 pm
      If you watch replay of shove,seconds from colliding with the two Everton subs walking along touch line,that would have been interesting,also both Bobby and fans could have been injured,i said at the time Bobby should have been clever lay down fakeing injury milk the situation ,receive treatment,get the first aiders involved the crowd would have went mental putting ref under pressure to red card him,hard to say at time when Bobby was furious but sometimes you have to be clever at times.
      clint_call01
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #35: Jan 06, 2018 01:39:27 pm
      If you watch replay of shove,seconds from colliding with the two Everton subs walking along touch line,that would have been interesting,also both Bobby and fans could have been injured,i said at the time Bobby should have been clever lay down fakeing injury milk the situation ,receive treatment,get the first aiders involved the crowd would have went mental putting ref under pressure to red card him,hard to say at time when Bobby was furious but sometimes you have to be clever at times.

      I like your argument and that would have been the best option but in the heat of the moment I would have done the same as Roberto.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #36: Jan 06, 2018 01:41:27 pm
      Holgate is from Doncaster and no disrespect to him but it's unlikely that he understands Portuguese. But the FA will go thru their regulations and if they can fit Bobby up on some remote semantic link to an offense, they will do.

      The FA will also ignore the fact that Bobby was rightly incensed with anger and that prompted him to verbally abuse Holgate. Players square up to each other all the time and verbal abuse is common in most games. This incident smacks of Holgate not understanding Portuguese and trying it on.

      The Ref might have decided to let the FA sort it out and might have said in his report that an allegation of racism was made and he decided to leave it to the FA to act retrospectively. That's why he took no action against Holgate.
      I remember Luis Suarez being charged with Racial abuse, for calling Patrice Evra a Little black man and being banned for eight matches and yet John Terry calls Anton Ferdinand a "F***ing Black c**t" and gets a four match band... Which is worse a "little Black man" or a "F***ing Black c**t"... So the FA has form for screwing us over
      bmck
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #37: Jan 06, 2018 01:47:31 pm
      But that shove into the stand...that's an open and shut case for a suspension.

      They should be looking into why the lad didn't get punished for pushing Bob over the hoarding.
      He, or a fan, could've been hurt.
      And Holgate didn't even get a yellow.
      Go figure.
      Don't trust the FA to scratch their own balls either, so God knows what they'll come back with.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #38: Jan 06, 2018 01:55:34 pm
      It's not totally clear as to what Firmino did say. Kenny is in the way for part of what Firmino says. Also Lallana is in there as well...

      As Firmino is shouting at Holgate, for the last few words he shouts at Holgate, Kenny is in the way, Holgate immediately pulls at the Ref...making his allegation of racism...but as Kenny is in the way it's difficult to see Firmino's last few words. This is after Firmino calls Holgate " crazy,,etc etc..."

      But then Holgate appears to make a claim direct to Lallana as if to say he was called the N word by Firmino.

      The point here is if and obviously it's a big IF....if Firmino did call Holgate the N word....and said it in English Lallana would have heard it...so would the Ref and Kenny...but if Firmino called Holgate a name in Portuguese..the one we COULD NOT SEE....as Kenny is blocking the view....it's entirely plausible that Holgate interpreted it to be of a racist nature...in error...or thru trying to stir the sh*t..

      Either way we cannot be certain one way or the other as we cannot see Firmino's final words to Holgate as Kenny is, as I say blocking the view.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0nd58xbwJo&t=210s
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #39: Jan 06, 2018 02:23:14 pm
      And for clarity's sake....It's just as Firmino's last words...blocked by Kenny...that is the exact second Holgate pulls at the Ref to make an allegation....up until that second I believe the Ref intended to act against Holgate by either booking him or sending him off...but due to the allegation the Ref decided to leave it to the FA.
      stuey
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #40: Jan 06, 2018 02:27:19 pm
      Totally agree, and if so wheres the racism in calling someone a Lunatic, crazy or a c**t
      Have to do a course in contrived misinterpretation to attach racism to any of those words.
      Quote
      BTW How was the X-Mas and New Years day for you and Yours...? Good I hope

      After begging to be discharged from hospital the day before Xmas eve things went amazingly  well.
      Hope it was good for you and yours mate.

      Arlen Correa
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #41: Jan 06, 2018 02:28:28 pm
      1 - what the tv showed: "tá louco filho da puta" = are you crazy son of a ....
      2 - i dont know if there's something else that tv did not show.
      3 - people claiming he said "negrito"..this is 200% bs. Negrito is a Spanish word. Why would he start speaking Spanish in that moment? In order to made up things, people should at least to know that Brazilians speak Portuguese, not Spanish.
      « Last Edit: Jan 06, 2018 03:28:27 pm by Arlen Correa »
      RobieSlick
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #42: Jan 06, 2018 03:11:24 pm
      I think we are fu**ed. FA loves to F**k us over at any chance.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #43: Jan 06, 2018 03:36:42 pm
      I remember Luis Suarez being charged with Racial abuse, for calling Patrice Evra a Little black man and being banned for eight matches and yet John Terry calls Anton Ferdinand a "F***ing Black C**t" and gets a four match band... Which is worse a "little Black man" or a "F***ing Black C**t"... So the FA has form for screwing us over

      Because Suarez was a 'foreign savage' and Terry a moral gaurdian of fine English manhood.

      That's the way the FA continue to think and run the game in England. They're a bunch of old, grey, impotent wife hating cu*ts who continue to keep a flame alight for the worst kinds of prejudice displayed in 19th century Britain.

      That Firmino is foreign and from South America (or the jungle as the FA probably see it) only makes things more difficult for our Bobby.
      sore monad
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #44: Jan 06, 2018 03:38:18 pm
      Can anyone lip read what Holgate was saying to the ref? There's clear footage of it but I'm sh*t at lip reading. I thought he maybe said "he gobbed at me", but I'm a long way from sure. The BBC commentator at the time said there was an allegation that Firmino had spat ( which he clearly didn't), which I'm guessing he was hearing from somebody on the touchline. So it would be very interesting to know what Holgate was saying to the ref there.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Firmino and Holgate
      Reply #45: Jan 06, 2018 03:41:35 pm
      Have to do a course in contrived misinterpretation to attach racism to any of those words.

      ;D... I believe that they now do that course on the Open University

      After begging to be discharged from hospital the day before Xmas eve things went amazingly  well.
      Hope it was good for you and yours mate.
      Sorry to here that you were in Hospital mate, Hope it was nothing to serious... Or where you in there strictly of the bed bath.... ;D   

      Mine: It when great, even had me Cooking a couple legs of lamb boxing day, a rarity in itself

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