Firmino and Holgate

All I will say on this issue is that LFC has and will take the higher ground and do the right thing.
Think it’s clear that Bobby didn’t say anything racist to holgate and hopefully the investigatory papal will see this and clear firmino of the accusation.
BUT it’s important to not punish Holgate for his accusation. It’s vital that this is dealt with in a calm and clear manner.
Our own player, Brewster, was very brave to go in record with the guardian and discribe the situations he and fellow team mates have encountered have experienced.
If we are to do him justice then we have to listen to all sides, investigate and then move forward and not backwards with inflammatory and tribal opinion.
I am sure that Holgate will realize that he is wrong with his homophobic tweets and also wrong with his misunderstanding of the Portuguese language.
Punishing him for expressing his opinion on the incident will only lead to other minorities feeling that they also cannot express their grevencies whether their interpretations are right or wrong.
LFC, club and fans, will come out of this best if we just do the right thing.
Be on the right side of history.

Turn the other cheek bullshit eh, hang him out to dry the dirty little c**t i say, trying to hang Firmino on racist bullshit and he couldn't give a flying about anyone except himself. Little blueshite c**t.

Riba never fails but to make me smile.

'When universities sing i'm dreaming of a white campus' So f**king random

Ahh man thats funny.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ucl-white-campus-tweet-christmas-apologise-snow-racism-lawn-university-college-london-a8110746.html%3f

It would be ridiculous for the FA to investigate Holgate over tweets he made when he was in school. It's completely irrelevant and it's just taking pettiness to a whole new level. 

He's not the first school boy to say something daft and he won't be the last either. To punish him years later when he's in his 20s is just madness.

If the FA do go ahead and punish him for those tweets then you'll see all kinds of posts dug up from social media by professionals and they'll all be getting bans.

I can just see it now....

'Gareth Barry, aged 36, is the latest footballer to be banned for three matches because he called somebody a 'puff' when he lost a game of yahoo checkers at the age of 16'.

Holgate does, however, need to be punished for that push on firmino which was unncessary and reckless.

By now he would have provided the FA with his version of events too and if he specifically said that Firmino used a certain word but the referee, no other player, no camera angle or no lip reader picks it up then he should be banned for that too.

If he says something such as 'I presumed he meant this' or 'I thought the word he used meant that' then he should also be punished and banned too. He can't just go around making presumptions and serious accusations.

I hope the FA release a full report to the public on their investigation but I suspect they will try their best to sweep it all under the carpet because of the kick it out campaigns. Racism in football, and in general, is a very touchy subject.

where do you draw the line? When a university says dreaming of a white campus, everyone knows that they mean snow, yet people think it's racist? Because cynical minds want to assume white was inferred as a race rather than the obvious snow. Why? Because they like to argue about nothing. Schools make people say chalkboard instead of blackboard now, it's got real stupid.

Banana on the pitch and N words is racist of course, but for some things, just because someone thinks something is racist doesn't mean it is.

If any University in the USA said "I'm dreaming of a white campus" they would rightly be pulled into line, even if they did JUST mean snow.

Why? Because there is massive history in regards to allowing African-Americans to go to University, James Meredith applying and getting into the University of Mississippi as the first non white person to go there in 1961 or 62 was a huge moment in the civil rights movement, and was followed by riots on campus all in protest of it. All because the bloke wanted to go to f**king school. And if you think it's all in the past, you're wrong.

So yeah, I can understand a "white campus dreaming" being taken as racist. While innocent intentions are all well and good, there is still a responsibility to make sure we're not stepping on toes. And it's not political correctness gone wrong, it's just being a f**king decent person and not living in a dreamland where the past is the past and the world is all rosy now. Racism is as prevalent as ever, and the effects of the past are still being felt by current generations. Archaic c**t attitudes die hard.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/ucl-white-campus-tweet-christmas-apologise-snow-racism-lawn-university-college-london-a8110746.html%3f

Yep, considering the history of education being withheld from some based on racial lines, definitely shouldn't be saying things like this.

If any University in the USA said "I'm dreaming of a white campus" they would rightly be pulled into line, even if they did JUST mean snow.

Why? Because there is massive history in regards to allowing African-Americans to go to University, James Meredith applying and getting into the University of Mississippi as the first non white person to go there in 1961 or 62 was a huge moment in the civil rights movement, and was followed by riots on campus all in protest of it. All because the bloke wanted to go to f**king school. And if you think it's all in the past, you're wrong.

So yeah, I can understand a "white campus dreaming" being taken as racist. While innocent intentions are all well and good, there is still a responsibility to make sure we're not stepping on toes. And it's not political correctness gone wrong, it's just being a f**king decent person and not living in a dreamland where the past is the past and the world is all rosy now. Racism is as prevalent as ever, and the effects of the past are still being felt by current generations. Archaic c**t attitudes die hard.

Yep, considering the history of education being withheld from some based on racial lines, definitely shouldn't be saying things like this.

Should we just ban the words white and black, would that be easier for you my little snowflake, for F**k sake grow up will you and develop a slightly thicker skin, you don't have to see racism in everything that happens. Racism and sexism these days is nothing compared to how it used to be. These days people are living in real fear of doing or saying anything wrong, meanwhile all "subversive" thought is being pushed underground where it will grow into something truly ugly.
We are now in a situation where we all have to think the same, for example we all have to like gay marriage, we all have to embrace transgenders and all the other subdivisions from the traditional male and female and men live in terror about whether or not they are even allowed to give a woman a compliment. Whilst I think it is very good that people are more open minded and fair to their fellow humans it is the pace and scale of this reconditioning of society that is frightening, it is almost Orwellian in nature and there will be push back at some point because the majority of people try to be good, I truly believe they do, but they don't like being forced to be good.

Should we just ban the words white and black, would that be easier for you my little snowflake, for f**k sake grow up will you and develop a slightly thicker skin, you don't have to see racism in everything that happens. Racism and sexism these days is nothing compared to how it used to be. These days people are living in real fear of doing or saying anything wrong, meanwhile all "subversive" thought is being pushed underground where it will grow into something truly ugly.
We are now in a situation where we all have to think the same, for example we all have to like gay marriage, we all have to embrace transgenders and all the other subdivisions from the traditional male and female and men live in terror about whether or not they are even allowed to give a woman a compliment. Whilst I think it is very good that people are more open minded and fair to their fellow humans it is the pace and scale of this reconditioning of society that is frightening, it is almost Orwellian in nature and there will be push back at some point because the majority of people try to be good, I truly believe they do, but they don't like being forced to be good.

Who's being forced to be good?
Do you genuinely feel that people should be able to 'punish' people for being different to them?

When I say punish I mean by name calling, bullying, racism, physical violence... Whatever..  you may not feel it's a big thing if you don't like something and you may not be vocal in your feelings, but someone will and is that fair? We all get one life so why should the way someone else looks or what they do be subject of ridicule or simply by making them feel different?

I'm no F***ing snowflake but I'm perfectly happy to let anyone do and live how they feel as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.. so if someone's black should they be called names because of it? Of course F***ing  not.. if a man wants to dress as a woman, does it affect you? It shouldn't..  if a man wants to stick his cock in another man at home should that bother you? Why should it?

You say we all have to like same sex marriage? Why? I literally give it zero thought..  no one asks me or tells  me, you do like same sex marriage don't you..
So is part of the modern world..  who cares? I don't. As long as they're happy I don't care one bit but no one tells me to like it.. if you think they do then you worry too much about these things. Just let people get on with their lives

It's nothing to do with having a thicker skin..  that's antiquated thinking.. Why should they? Why should someone who's black or Muslim or gay or transgender be ostracized or bullied, either obviously or subconsciously, only to be told they should have a thicker skin?
No you shouldn't be a bigot bullying pr**k not them having a thicker skin

All these little changes over time have had a big difference in the last 100 years or something, and changed for the better.. or would you like to live in a world where there are signs on hotels for no blacks or Irish? Where gay people are beaten, where blacks have to take different buses, or women can't vote?
So now big changes have happened what does it matter if more little changes are made to rid it completely from culture for generations maybe another 100 years down the line?
I don't know what's worse, people who offended or people who get offended by resistance to change

If you don't hold these views I don't see why you would get offended by big and subtle changes to make people live the lives they want

It's not subversive thinking being pushed on people, nothing is pushed, it's simply being a nicer human and making the world a better place

There is a reason why racism and sexism aren't as bad as they used to be and that's by cultural changes so why anyone would want to stop cultural changes I don't know.

I've never been racist and I've never inappropriately groped a women.. soz if you see me as a snowflake because of that.

I don't see people living in fear of saying or doing the wrong thing.. Just be normal and nice and you don't either have to worry about that or question your own actions.
I don't approach anyone like homer simpson thinking, ah sh*t, he's married to a man... don't mention the penis in man thing
I just talk to people

Should we just ban the words white and black, would that be easier for you my little snowflake, for f**k sake grow up will you and develop a slightly thicker skin, you don't have to see racism in everything that happens. Racism and sexism these days is nothing compared to how it used to be. These days people are living in real fear of doing or saying anything wrong, meanwhile all "subversive" thought is being pushed underground where it will grow into something truly ugly.
We are now in a situation where we all have to think the same, for example we all have to like gay marriage, we all have to embrace transgenders and all the other subdivisions from the traditional male and female and men live in terror about whether or not they are even allowed to give a woman a compliment. Whilst I think it is very good that people are more open minded and fair to their fellow humans it is the pace and scale of this reconditioning of society that is frightening, it is almost Orwellian in nature and there will be push back at some point because the majority of people try to be good, I truly believe they do, but they don't like being forced to be good.

Post. Of. The. Year.*







*For all the wrong reasons.

Philosophically we clearly differentiate on life, so I'm not going to be tedious like yourself and tell you to grow up - nor will I throw on my scuba suit so I can dive to the depths of your condescension with the "my little snowflake" bullshit. You don't know me, and you don't know my life. But having a lot more world experience than you (and I'm 110% confident of this purely because your attitude clearly shows you are ignorant as f**k about pretty much everything besides how to put one foot in front of the other) I will point out a few hilarious little tidbits of your f**king brilliant post. I'm ales deep and sick of this sh*t.

"They don't like being forced to be good."  Okay, so be good on your own terms. Either way, just be good - not just to yourself, but to the transgender person (that may be struggling with their own self because of people like you) you so clearly are struggling to deal with. As well as just be good to everyone else.

"We all have to like gay marriage." - Big f***in whoop, cobber. Man and a woman love each and wanna f**k for life, man and a man, woman and a woman. It's all the f**king same. It's love. Get the f**k over yourself. You should just like marriage, and two people wanting to love each other for life. Sure, a couple blokes might get married, decide it wasn't right, get divorced. SAME AS A MAN AND A WOMAN. WHO F***ing CARES. Calling me a snowflake, yet your knickers are in a twist over gay marriage?! 'Kin hell, I think you need to get your compass a bit more straight than mine old mate.

"Men live in terror over whether to compliment a woman" - Well let me trundle this one out to you, mr wolf whistle. If a bloke walked up to another bloke he didn't know in a pub (Oh I'm sure you're gonna LOVE this) and said "Well don't you look good tonight?" with a wink, what would happen? Pretty sure there'd at least be a very awkward moment (unless the gaydar was on point and he found a kindred spirit) and at worst there'd be some hefty assault charges in about five minutes. Now, why should a woman, if she does not want such an unwanted advance, have to take it? It's simple - don't be a dick. I compliment woman all the time - just the difference being they're either friends, friends wives that are also my friends, my sister, my brothers girlfriend of six years, my co-workers, and of course - my sexy as f**k wife. Telling a random woman she's beautiful with a dirty wink might seem chivalrous, but then again, the age of chivalry was an age that should never be repeated.

"Should we just ban the words white and black my little blah blah blah I stick my finger up my own bum." - No, you simpleton. It's all about context. Understand the world, the way in which words used in the wrong context and the wrong situations can hurt. Get a f**king clue, in other words.

That'll do pig. That'll do.

Also I definitely threw on my scuba suit. No fucks given.

Who's being forced to be good?
Do you genuinely feel that people should be able to 'punish' people for being different to them?

When I say punish I mean by name calling, bullying, racism, physical violence... Whatever..  you may not feel it's a big thing if you don't like something and you may not be vocal in your feelings, but someone will and is that fair? We all get one life so why should the way someone else looks or what they do be subject of ridicule or simply by making them feel different?

I'm no f**king snowflake but I'm perfectly happy to let anyone do and live how they feel as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.. so if someone's black should they be called names because of it? Of course f**king  not.. if a man wants to dress as a woman, does it affect you? It shouldn't..  if a man wants to stick his cock in another man at home should that bother you? Why should it?

You say we all have to like same sex marriage? Why? I literally give it zero thought..  no one asks me or tells  me, you do like same sex marriage don't you..
So is part of the modern world..  who cares? I don't. As long as they're happy I don't care one bit but no one tells me to like it.. if you think they do then you worry too much about these things. Just let people get on with their lives

It's nothing to do with having a thicker skin..  that's antiquated thinking.. Why should they? Why should someone who's black or Muslim or gay or transgender be ostracized or bullied, either obviously or subconsciously, only to be told they should have a thicker skin?
No you shouldn't be a bigot bullying pr**k not them having a thicker skin

All these little changes over time have had a big difference in the last 100 years or something, and changed for the better.. or would you like to live in a world where there are signs on hotels for no blacks or Irish? Where gay people are beaten, where blacks have to take different buses, or women can't vote?
So now big changes have happened what does it matter if more little changes are made to rid it completely from culture for generations maybe another 100 years down the line?
I don't know what's worse, people who offended or people who get offended by resistance to change

If you don't hold these views I don't see why you would get offended by big and subtle changes to make people live the lives they want

It's not subversive thinking being pushed on people, nothing is pushed, it's simply being a nicer human and making the world a better place

There is a reason why racism and sexism aren't as bad as they used to be and that's by cultural changes so why anyone would want to stop cultural changes I don't know.

I've never been racist and I've never inappropriately groped a women.. soz if you see me as a snowflake because of that.

I don't see people living in fear of saying or doing the wrong thing.. Just be normal and nice and you don't either have to worry about that or question your own actions.
I don't approach anyone like homer simpson thinking, ah sh*t, he's married to a man... don't mention the penis in man thing
I just talk to people

I think the point is when people over-react to things, taking things out of context to make them sound racist. For example the H&M advert, its a jumper which has a slogan on about a monkey. most people read that and think its aimed at little boys because often they get related to "cheeky monkeys" but no instead people read too far into things and say "monkey + black boy = instant racism"

Instances where its clear no offence was meant to be caused, yet people are ridiculed and forced to make apologies because people in the world are so self centred. People getting offended almost because they want to it seems.

There is enough hate in the world without people going searching for it in the most innocent places.

I think the point is when people over-react to things, taking things out of context to make them sound racist. For example the H&M advert, its a jumper which has a slogan on about a monkey. most people read that and think its aimed at little boys because often they get related to "cheeky monkeys" but no instead people read too far into things and say "monkey + black boy = instant racism"

Instances where its clear no offence was meant to be caused, yet people are ridiculed and forced to make apologies because people in the world are so self centred. People getting offended almost because they want to it seems.

There is enough hate in the world without people going searching for it in the most innocent places.

I personally don't have an issue with the H&M advertising in and what it is. I don't think they intended or were being racist

However the marketing director who signed it off must have either mush for brains that it could be taken that way or wanted it to be controversial to get them national press coverage

Either way it's not right that either someone in a high position should be so thick or devious

When I saw that, I wasn't offended, but I could see why it could gain the traction  it has and with national advertising they should be more responsible

So, back on topic, any news yet?

So, back on topic, any news yet?

Given Bob's dental prowess I rename the issue...Colgate & Holgate..

I personally don't have an issue with the H&M advertising in and what it is. I don't think they intended or were being racist

However the marketing director who signed it off must have either mush for brains that it could be taken that way or wanted it to be controversial to get them national press coverage

Either way it's not right that either someone in a high position should be so thick or devious

When I saw that, I wasn't offended, but I could see why it could gain the traction  it has and with national advertising they should be more responsible

Perhaps they just have innocent minds and literally never saw it as racist, it doesn't need to be considered as racism until someone decided it is.

my only concern is when people get offended by these types of things, the way I see it they make themselves subject to more abuse if when people let themselves get offended by such nonsense.

Given Bob's dental prowess I rename the issue...Colgate & Holgate..

Wait for it......any minute.......ahhhhhh....

So... any new news just purely based on Firmino and Holgate?

Perhaps they just have innocent minds and literally never saw it as racist, it doesn't need to be considered as racism until someone decided it is.

my only concern is when people get offended by these types of things, the way I see it they make themselves subject to more abuse if when people let themselves get offended by such nonsense.

You know how many levels of sign off a national campaign like this would have to go through? And all are innocent enough not to have said, I'm not sure about this

They get paid well into 6 figures a year doing these jobs

Put it this way, you or me weren't offended, probably the absolute vast majority weren't. But did you not look at it and see the potential of how it could be viewed? Seriously? If we did they did

Again I wasn't offended by it, I thought it was stupid or opportunistic. Probably both

Ahh F**k H and M and their sh*t clothes anyway.

Post. Of. The. Year.*







*For all the wrong reasons.

Philosophically we clearly differentiate on life, so I'm not going to be tedious like yourself and tell you to grow up - nor will I throw on my scuba suit so I can dive to the depths of your condescension with the "my little snowflake" bullshit. You don't know me, and you don't know my life. But having a lot more world experience than you (and I'm 110% confident of this purely because your attitude clearly shows you are ignorant as f**k about pretty much everything besides how to put one foot in front of the other) I will point out a few hilarious little tidbits of your f**king brilliant post. I'm ales deep and sick of this sh*t.

"They don't like being forced to be good."  Okay, so be good on your own terms. Either way, just be good - not just to yourself, but to the transgender person (that may be struggling with their own self because of people like you) you so clearly are struggling to deal with. As well as just be good to everyone else.

"We all have to like gay marriage." - Big f***in whoop, cobber. Man and a woman love each and wanna f**k for life, man and a man, woman and a woman. It's all the f**king same. It's love. Get the f**k over yourself. You should just like marriage, and two people wanting to love each other for life. Sure, a couple blokes might get married, decide it wasn't right, get divorced. SAME AS A MAN AND A WOMAN. WHO F***ing CARES. Calling me a snowflake, yet your knickers are in a twist over gay marriage?! 'Kin hell, I think you need to get your compass a bit more straight than mine old mate.

"Men live in terror over whether to compliment a woman" - Well let me trundle this one out to you, mr wolf whistle. If a bloke walked up to another bloke he didn't know in a pub (Oh I'm sure you're gonna LOVE this) and said "Well don't you look good tonight?" with a wink, what would happen? Pretty sure there'd at least be a very awkward moment (unless the gaydar was on point and he found a kindred spirit) and at worst there'd be some hefty assault charges in about five minutes. Now, why should a woman, if she does not want such an unwanted advance, have to take it? It's simple - don't be a dick. I compliment woman all the time - just the difference being they're either friends, friends wives that are also my friends, my sister, my brothers girlfriend of six years, my co-workers, and of course - my sexy as f**k wife. Telling a random woman she's beautiful with a dirty wink might seem chivalrous, but then again, the age of chivalry was an age that should never be repeated.

"Should we just ban the words white and black my little blah blah blah I stick my finger up my own bum." - No, you simpleton. It's all about context. Understand the world, the way in which words used in the wrong context and the wrong situations can hurt. Get a f**king clue, in other words.

That'll do pig. That'll do.

Also I definitely threw on my scuba suit. No fucks given.

, did I trigger you, sorry about that. BTW please tell me about your life experiences, I'm intrigued, does it involve a lot of marches, changing the world etc?

I clarified in my post that I am a live and let live kind of guy, I really am despite YOUR obvious assumptions, bias and prejudices against me. All I am pointing out is that people these days are being forced into thinking a certain way by constant moralising pressure from the media and its not healthy and in my opinion will not end well, hence see the rise of far right politics across the western world.

I think the point is when people over-react to things, taking things out of context to make them sound racist. For example the H&M advert, its a jumper which has a slogan on about a monkey. most people read that and think its aimed at little boys because often they get related to "cheeky monkeys" but no instead people read too far into things and say "monkey + black boy = instant racism"

Instances where its clear no offence was meant to be caused, yet people are ridiculed and forced to make apologies because people in the world are so self centred. People getting offended almost because they want to it seems.

There is enough hate in the world without people going searching for it in the most innocent places.

You know I'm starting to warm to you my "depressed about the future of the club" friend, that's another excellent post and I 100% agree with you.

You know how many levels of sign off a national campaign like this would have to go through? And all are innocent enough not to have said, I'm not sure about this

They get paid well into 6 figures a year doing these jobs

Put it this way, you or me weren't offended, probably the absolute vast majority weren't. But did you not look at it and see the potential of how it could be viewed? Seriously? If we did they did

Again I wasn't offended by it, I thought it was stupid or opportunistic. Probably both

But by that logic surely you can never ever say or do anything because someone out there will take some perceived offense at whatever you say, it is becoming slightly absurd these days with celebs having to apologise for this that and the other on a daily basis.
Having said that there is of course a historic racist connection between monkey and black, but my question is, will that connection remain for all time? I am fairly sure that more black people these days see that link than white people do so does that perhaps mean that they are searching for racism where none exists and if that is true does not rather frustrate the real fight against racism?

, did I trigger you, sorry about that. BTW please tell me about your life experiences, I'm intrigued, does it involve a lot of marches, changing the world etc?

I clarified in my post that I am a live and let live kind of guy, I really am despite YOUR obvious assumptions, bias and prejudices against me. All I am pointing out is that people these days are being forced into thinking a certain way by constant moralising pressure from the media and its not healthy and in my opinion will not end well, hence see the rise of far right politics across the western world.

Nah not triggered mate, just fascinated by hypocrites that use "I'm not racist BUT" and "I'm a live and let live kind of guy BUT" kinda logic.

Far right politics rising is more or less white supremacy smarting against it's death knell. There's no deep reasoning to it, nothing good to it. Just a bunch of "Back in my day!" cu*ts that can't handle change.

Moralising pressure I love the right-wing notion that being a good person that doesn't give a F**k what other people do as long as they treat others well is a bad thing.

...my little snowflake...

...did I trigger you..

I think even Trump fans and Russian bots have realised those have got a little old.

I'm no f**king snowflake

Racist 

But by that logic surely you can never ever say or do anything because someone out there will take some perceived offense at whatever you say, it is becoming slightly absurd these days with celebs having to apologise for this that and the other on a daily basis.
Having said that there is of course a historic racist connection between monkey and black, but my question is, will that connection remain for all time?

I don't know what you mean by say or do anything? You can say or do anything that doesn't insult  someone...
Be that anything, I went to school in th 80s and early -mid 90s.. where it was seemingly deemed ok to call people with learning difficulties a spaz or whatever. Is that right?
Surely you can have a filter in your brain to know if someone will find something insulting? And not use it if you think they will?
That's not being able to say anything, that's just saying and doing the right thing

You have got my point exactly there when you say will it ever change... yes if we make it so.
It may not and most certainly won't in your and my generation, maybe not our kids generations but in another 100 years? Just because we won't be here does that matter?
The changes made 100 years ago people probably thought would never happen, they have... so if by subtle changes to society now, yes it can and would disappear in generations to come

It's not being a snowflake by living your life trying not to offend other people (and I'm not saying you, I don't know you.. I mean generally)

Tell you what it's easy to say you don't see what the fuss is if you don't or haven't suffered it.
I'm white Scouse, married with two kids. I haven't suffered it either but I just don't see the push or angst to allow people to say what they want when that could offend others

I have a mate, who's been a mate for 30 years or so, he's black, went to first school together, we met when we were about 8, me and him and about 4 others became mates cause we were football mad, simple as that.. his name is Carl White.. now a sh*t load of other kids used to take the piss cause he is black and his names white.. it may seem like nothing, and the majority of the time he let it not bother him, but I know it used to get to him, (we all had a few black eyes to prove it), I'm not going to say specifically some of the things said to him but you think he should have a thicker skin? If it upset him as an 8 year old? That was his name, he was(is) a F***ing sound kid.. so it's his fault that people thought it was ok to get to him over something that is nothing?
It's just an example. My point being It's just not necessary. I don't back their right to do that to upset someone else just cause people should be allowed to say what they like without being censored