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      Liverpool 2-3 West Brom

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      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #750: Jan 28, 2018 11:58:40 pm
      Right you are,  it was only the 3 conceded at home against the high flying West Brom!

      But his point is spot on. It was a poor performance and an awful result, but this five goal thing is a false narrative. If people are confident in their gloom and doom argument about the team/manager/etc., there's no need to embellish the details.

      Hoping for a quick turnaround from two miserable results.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #751: Jan 29, 2018 12:03:53 am

      To quote FL Red (who was quoting Ice Cube): "Bye Felicia."
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #752: Jan 29, 2018 12:08:54 am
      That was a poor performance, but that back six (I'd like to include Can) was a bit of a recipe for disaster.

      Trent hadn't started a game for up to a month
      Moreno hadn't started a game in almost two months
      Van Dijk had his 3rd game in a red shirt
      Mignolet was told he isn't first choice anymore a week ago
      Matip who hasn't been playing very well

      Put Can in front of that back five and you know you're in trouble.

      What we see for almost all of the goals again, is a chainreaction of errors. We don't seem to have that one calming influence who can stop attacks dead in their track, by making a silly foul or adjusting position or whatever. We're like a house of cards, one card falls, the rest come down with it.

      First goal:

      - Matip had no business heading that straight up the field with Wijnaldum clearly being covered and facing his own goal. Poor decision making. You either bring it down or you head that ball out wide and either start your build up play or allow your team to regain its shape.
      - Wijnaldum loses possession too easily, poor ball by Matip, but he should do better, you can't lose possession in that area of the pitch
      - Trent with a half arsed challenge
      - Can in no man's land not tracking Rodriguez

      Second goal:

      - Can presses and gets beaten, far, far too easily leaving a massive hole in midfield
      - Chamberlain sees it, moves inside, but doesn't pick up Rodriguez
      - Wijnaldum either doesn't communicate well enough or should pick up Rodriguez himself
      - Trent with a relatively poor effort to block the cross
      - None of our CB's in a position to actually deal with the cross

      Again, a chainreaction of errors. Klopp was rightly fuming after the game. Unforgivable mistakes. We concede so many goals because our midfielders just don't track the midfield runners, Can being the worst culprit, he just does not do it, it's infuriating. We've conceded so many goals because he just doesn't follow up.

      Third goal:

      Look at that back line



      Absolute shambles. Who is leading that line? Matip too slow getting in line and has no clue about the West-Brom player to his left, Trent too slow getting in line, Can / Wijnaldum have no clue about Dawson either. Matip obviously scared to score the own goal but f**k me, what a poor attempt at a clearance.

      Overall just silly, silly mistakes and all of them proved to be costly.

      Good breakdown - but I think the one player who could have stepped up and prevented all three is Can.
      DanMann
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #753: Jan 29, 2018 12:09:34 am
      That was a poor performance, but that back six (I'd like to include Can) was a bit of a recipe for disaster.

      Trent hadn't started a game for up to a month
      Moreno hadn't started a game in almost two months
      Van Dijk had his 3rd game in a red shirt
      Mignolet was told he isn't first choice anymore a week ago
      Matip who hasn't been playing very well

      Glad I wasn't the only one who picked up on that. Of course it's a factor.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #754: Jan 29, 2018 12:20:24 am
      Notice a sudden wave of "first-time posters" starting out by crying bloody murder and the sky is falling. Judging by the 6 reps to this post, I'm thinking there are about 6 of "them."

      Do I need to ignore all of these or will they disappear shortly as usual.

      There's enough hysteria to wade through on here without having to deal with pretend hysteria.  :roll:


      Especially when there is a poster on another forum with the same name, who talk's a lot more sense than that drivel posted!!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #755: Jan 29, 2018 12:24:00 am
      Especially when there is a poster on another forum with the same name, who talk's a lot more sense than that drivel posted!!

      Serious? On RAWK?
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #756: Jan 29, 2018 12:29:57 am

      Nope RAOTL, it's a long, long time since I've ever ventured into RAWk.

      I honestly can't stand that site.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      • YNWA
      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #757: Jan 29, 2018 01:16:14 am
      Morning all, first time poster on here.

      I want to make several points.

      Firstly Klopp. He has been manager for over 2 1/2yrs and he has failed to address the keeper situation, mignolet is beyond a joke, karius looks looks like a frightened rabbit, only Ward looks any where near a potentially decent keeper. Klopp's failings to address this is disgraceful.

      The defense: there are only two defenders who could call them selves that, Robertson and Virgil, players like klavan, lovren, Matip, and moreno are a disgrace to the shirt!

      The midfield: Pah! Not one of them are good enough, none of our top four rivals would have any of our midfielders.

      Forwards: firmino is a very good false number 9, but sadly thats about it, sadly Ings is no where near good enough, sturridge is brittle ( but the most talented and natural finisher we have) and solanke needs to go on loan, so naive and raw, wont develop stuck on the bench.

      Wingers: Salah is the only shinning light! What a signing. Mane well he looks like he needs to come out the team but we have no better options sadly.

      Klopp: I think Lfc fans should now realise he is not capable of building and strong enough team, surely any one with a clue starts by building the spine of the team, GK, centre backs, central midfield, and forwards! We have barely one of those qualities.
      Klopps tactics too too often lead to us getting found out and beaten, last nights result is not a fluke, its keeps happening.
      So unless last night serves as a wake up call to Klopp and he realises he needs to have a mass clear out and sign players good enough and take a look at his tactics then sadly players like coutinho may sign but will soon leave, ( Salah) and LFC will just just drift along flattering to deceive 😡😡😡😡😡😔😔

      6 thumbs up? Like a swarm of flies to a mound of sh*t.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #758: Jan 29, 2018 01:21:05 am
      Nope RAOTL, it's a long, long time since I've ever ventured into RAWk.

      I honestly can't stand that site.

      The level of control freakery on that site by the moderators is astonishing, making North Korea look positively liberal in it's approach to free speech. It seems that every second thread has been locked with some pithy explanation by someone undoubtedly suffering from a catastrophic case of penis envy.

      It really is an awful forum.
      heimdall
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #759: Jan 29, 2018 09:57:41 am
      Notice a sudden wave of "first-time posters" starting out by crying bloody murder and the sky is falling. Judging by the 6 reps to this post, I'm thinking there are about 6 of "them."

      Do I need to ignore all of these or will they disappear shortly as usual.

      There's enough hysteria to wade through on here without having to deal with pretend hysteria.  :roll:


      Instead of being a child and putting them on ignore, just because you don't agree with them, how about you engage them in debate, you know this being a forum and all. As for me people joining the forum is that not a good thing and of course if they join now then they won't be in a good mood after 2 humiliating results on the bounce.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #760: Jan 29, 2018 10:09:32 am
      We played two bad games and everyone loses their minds.

      So far in this forum there are two camps:

      ''FSG are the DEVIL and they are responsible''

      or

      ''Klopp's fault, he's wack not good enough''

      a few weeks ago we were on an unbeaten run and so far we were the only team to beat Man City. We lost a bit of confidence losing against Swansea and WBA this weekend, but it's not the end of the world. Sure, Klopp is happy with what he's got and I'm sure if there is a player available at the right price I really don't think he will hesitate one second and the owners will back him. However, if he thinks it's worth a gamble just to stick with what he has and risk it then we should wait until the end of the season to see if his gamble paid off or not.

      Chill dudes. Let's beat huddersfield and go on another good run.
      Scotia
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #761: Jan 29, 2018 10:58:57 am
      That was a poor performance, but that back six (I'd like to include Can) was a bit of a recipe for disaster.

      Trent hadn't started a game for up to a month
      Moreno hadn't started a game in almost two months
      Van Dijk had his 3rd game in a red shirt
      Mignolet was told he isn't first choice anymore a week ago
      Matip who hasn't been playing very well

      Put Can in front of that back five and you know you're in trouble.

      What we see for almost all of the goals again, is a chainreaction of errors. We don't seem to have that one calming influence who can stop attacks dead in their track, by making a silly foul or adjusting position or whatever. We're like a house of cards, one card falls, the rest come down with it.

      First goal:

      - Matip had no business heading that straight up the field with Wijnaldum clearly being covered and facing his own goal. Poor decision making. You either bring it down or you head that ball out wide and either start your build up play or allow your team to regain its shape.
      - Wijnaldum loses possession too easily, poor ball by Matip, but he should do better, you can't lose possession in that area of the pitch
      - Trent with a half arsed challenge
      - Can in no man's land not tracking Rodriguez

      Second goal:

      - Can presses and gets beaten, far, far too easily leaving a massive hole in midfield
      - Chamberlain sees it, moves inside, but doesn't pick up Rodriguez
      - Wijnaldum either doesn't communicate well enough or should pick up Rodriguez himself
      - Trent with a relatively poor effort to block the cross
      - None of our CB's in a position to actually deal with the cross

      Again, a chainreaction of errors. Klopp was rightly fuming after the game. Unforgivable mistakes. We concede so many goals because our midfielders just don't track the midfield runners, Can being the worst culprit, he just does not do it, it's infuriating. We've conceded so many goals because he just doesn't follow up.

      Third goal:

      Look at that back line



      Absolute shambles. Who is leading that line? Matip too slow getting in line and has no clue about the West-Brom player to his left, Trent too slow getting in line, Can / Wijnaldum have no clue about Dawson either. Matip obviously scared to score the own goal but f**k me, what a poor attempt at a clearance.

      Overall just silly, silly mistakes and all of them proved to be costly.

      Overall a good summary Danzel.

      That said - I can’t help but feel that you’re going out of your way to avoid implicating Moreno in any of that. I know you’ve been an advocate.

      Whilst I’d agree with your primary sources above - his “switching off” meant he wasn’t able to respond to the errors of others in the way he should.

      He’s in the wrong position on all 3. The sweeping second full-back is vital in the zonal system and Alberto struggles with the level of concentration it demands.

      That Trent was so poor is not a get out of jail for Bertie on the other side.

      The CBs were massively compromised on the night due to the two fullbacks. I’ve ssid elsewhere that they were too split without the ball.

      Robbo - although I’m a avowed fan - has only just started to twig to this as well after the first few games of his run in the team.

      Good summary though - enjoyed it, thanks.

      « Last Edit: Jan 29, 2018 11:12:26 am by Scotia »
      Mickred
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #762: Jan 29, 2018 01:20:50 pm
      As embarrassing as this result was, we should not get too down on the last 2 results just as we should not get carried away with our recent unbeaten run.

      YNWA

      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #763: Jan 29, 2018 03:47:34 pm
      Instead of being a child and putting them on ignore, just because you don't agree with them, how about you engage them in debate, you know this being a forum and all. As for me people joining the forum is that not a good thing and of course if they join now then they won't be in a good mood after 2 humiliating results on the bounce.

      Honestly what is your problem? I've repped you in the past in your defense of management, but what have I said to prompt this attack from you? I haven't addressed anything to you. Are you those new posters' lawyer or something?.

      I am pretty sure I have a fundamental right to read or ignore which posts I want to. What's childish is resorting to name-calling. I engage posters on here all the time, some of whom I disagree with and some of whom I do not.  But I can recognize the difference between honest difference of opinion and someone just being a troll. As I said, there were three of four posts within a day or two, all saying about the same thing, all from "new" users and all with an agenda against the manager. It's discussion with and among grownups that I want, not the kind from grade school windup merchants.

      Constructive additions to the discussion are always welcome (and I agree with Huyton this is by far the best and best-run site), but the ability to ignore people who just want to bash and stir the coals of dissent is a good feature ,not a "childish" one.


      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      • YNWA
      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #764: Jan 29, 2018 04:22:17 pm
      It's the realisation that our name won't be in the hat for this evening's 5th round draw that really tastes bitter and the cruel dawn that this is (most probably) another year with absolutely f**k all to show in terms of major trophies. But if you fail to stamp out the same errors that have done for us for season upon season and continue to placate the long term mediocrity at the club then why should we be surprised? It's the hope that kills! But hey - they're relatively cheap in terms of wages and who knows, they could always get better couldn't they?
      Danzel
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #765: Jan 29, 2018 05:53:05 pm
      Overall a good summary Danzel.

      That said - I can’t help but feel that you’re going out of your way to avoid implicating Moreno in any of that. I know you’ve been an advocate.

      Whilst I’d agree with your primary sources above - his “switching off” meant he wasn’t able to respond to the errors of others in the way he should.

      He’s in the wrong position on all 3. The sweeping second full-back is vital in the zonal system and Alberto struggles with the level of concentration it demands.

      That Trent was so poor is not a get out of jail for Bertie on the other side.

      The CBs were massively compromised on the night due to the two fullbacks. I’ve ssid elsewhere that they were too split without the ball.

      Robbo - although I’m a avowed fan - has only just started to twig to this as well after the first few games of his run in the team.

      Good summary though - enjoyed it, thanks.

      To start off with, I agree with the fact that both full backs were an issue during the game, I however disagree that Moreno is out of position for all three of the goals.

      I didn't go out of my way to avoid implicating Moreno at all. I like Wijnaldum too, contrary to the general opinion on these forums, and I've mentioned him in all three of the goals. Had it been Robertson, I wouldn't have mentioned him either.

      As you say, I mentioned primary reasons to why we conceded. Wrong passes, losing possession, not tracking runners, ... Perhaps ultimately he could have helped avoid one (the second one), but the chainreaction of errors by teammates shouldn't happen in the first place and I don't think it's a full back's job to bail out the team when a central opposition player (Rodriguez) is causing problems with which our midfielders and CB's should be dealing.

      I have rewatched all the goals multiple times and taken some screenshots (I don't know how to work with gifs) with regards to Moreno's position. I'm genuinely wondering where you would have preferred him to be, because I honestly (nothing to do with me "liking" Moreno) don't see much wrong.

      First goal:

      Ready to receive a pass from Wijnaldum to set up the attacking move with either Mane who would've moved out wide or Firmino who is ready to come into midfield.



      This is right after Wijnaldum loses possession in the middle. Can is on Rodriguez all the time.



      Here he is level with Trent, Matip and Van Dijk both slightly deeper after Matip dealt with the long ball. As soon as Wijnaldum loses possession, he rushes to the middle to try and block Rodriguez's shot.

      Where would you want him to be? He is already very narrow, Klopp doesn't want him holding hands with Van Dijk. If he gets even narrower, the West-Brom player on the right has a boulevard and Moreno would never get to him in time if the ball is played out wide.

      Robertson would've been in the same position. We have actually conceded goals in a similar way with Robertson arriving "late" too. Thing is, Robertson (and Moreno) aren't late or out of position (in my opinion), they're trying to rectify mistakes by teammates but they have to cover too much ground.

      Second goal:



      This is right after Can gets beaten by Krychowiak. You see the space he leaves. Defensive line looks good, spacing looks good, they're all in position. After this, Chamberlain moves into the space Can has vacated, but doesn't pick up Rodriguez who goes there too (Wijnaldum could've picked him up). Krychowiak is forced wide, Matip and Trent, after first closing the gap in the middle, move out wide too. In the middle Van Dijk is on Robson-Kanu.



      Right before the cross. No one at all is in a position to cut out the cross. That for me is the biggest issue we have in midfield. The fact that our midfielders rotate, puts us in situations where our #6 and most defensive midfielder is pressing while his position is being covered by a #8 (Wijnaldum and Chamberlain are both offensive midfielders). Neither of them have ever played there and don't have that defensive mind. I am 100% sure that if we had a genuine defensive midfielder, that he would've been in the space between Van Dijk and Matip, in front of Rodriguez. Chamberlain has no idea what he is doing there, he should've bust a gut to fill up that space.

      Again, where would you want Moreno to be? The only option I see would be if Van Dijk moves forward to close down the space between Matip and him (which should be filled by a midfielder) and passes on Robson-Kanu to Moreno who comes inside. I'm not sure you want someone like Moreno marking Robson-Kanu though in case it's a high cross?

      Third goal:



      Standard set-piece set up. Notice both Can and Wijnaldum marking Dawson. Our quickest players are central and highest up the pitch (Salah, Mane, Moreno and Chamberlain) to immediately get the counter-attack going. West-Brom deliberately set up in a way which makes them able to deal with both the second ball (Van Dijk headed it central) and the counter-attack. Moreno can't be out of position here it's how we almost always set up, whether it's a corner or free kick in certain areas.



      Van Dijk heads it away, our attackers + Moreno ready to pounce, defence moves forward and should get on one line to play offside (line was non-existant, absolute shambles). Firmino and Moreno closest to the ball, so they have to press. He's still not out of position, Can and Wijnaldum should be dealing with Dawson.

      Moreno isn't out of position. He would only be out of positon if his starting position was where Can and Wijnaldum were. Both of them are still in the same position, but neither of them is dealing with Dawson.

      So saying he's out of position for all three is wrong when you could only argue that he's (at a push) out of position for one.

      Biggest issue for all three goals were our midfielders (Can mainly) and Matip.
      « Last Edit: Jan 29, 2018 05:57:40 pm by Danzel »
      Scotia
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #766: Jan 29, 2018 06:28:21 pm
      To start off with, I agree with the fact that both full backs were an issue during the game, I however disagree that Moreno is out of position for all three of the goals.

      I didn't go out of my way to avoid implicating Moreno at all. I like Wijnaldum too, contrary to the general opinion on these forums, and I've mentioned him in all three of the goals. Had it been Robertson, I wouldn't have mentioned him either.

      As you say, I mentioned primary reasons to why we conceded. Wrong passes, losing possession, not tracking runners, ... Perhaps ultimately he could have helped avoid one (the second one), but the chainreaction of errors by teammates shouldn't happen in the first place and I don't think it's a full back's job to bail out the team when a central opposition player (Rodriguez) is causing problems with which our midfielders and CB's should be dealing.

      I have rewatched all the goals multiple times and taken some screenshots (I don't know how to work with gifs) with regards to Moreno's position. I'm genuinely wondering where you would have preferred him to be, because I honestly (nothing to do with me "liking" Moreno) don't see much wrong.

      First goal:

      Ready to receive a pass from Wijnaldum to set up the attacking move with either Mane who would've moved out wide or Firmino who is ready to come into midfield.



      This is right after Wijnaldum loses possession in the middle. Can is on Rodriguez all the time.



      Here he is level with Trent, Matip and Van Dijk both slightly deeper after Matip dealt with the long ball. As soon as Wijnaldum loses possession, he rushes to the middle to try and block Rodriguez's shot.

      Where would you want him to be? He is already very narrow, Klopp doesn't want him holding hands with Van Dijk. If he gets even narrower, the West-Brom player on the right has a boulevard and Moreno would never get to him in time if the ball is played out wide.

      Robertson would've been in the same position. We have actually conceded goals in a similar way with Robertson arriving "late" too. Thing is, Robertson (and Moreno) aren't late or out of position (in my opinion), they're trying to rectify mistakes by teammates but they have to cover too much ground.

      Second goal:



      This is right after Can gets beaten by Krychowiak. You see the space he leaves. Defensive line looks good, spacing looks good, they're all in position. After this, Chamberlain moves into the space Can has vacated, but doesn't pick up Rodriguez who goes there too (Wijnaldum could've picked him up). Krychowiak is forced wide, Matip and Trent, after first closing the gap in the middle, move out wide too. In the middle Van Dijk is on Robson-Kanu.



      Right before the cross. No one at all is in a position to cut out the cross. That for me is the biggest issue we have in midfield. The fact that our midfielders rotate, puts us in situations where our #6 and most defensive midfielder is pressing while his position is being covered by a #8 (Wijnaldum and Chamberlain are both offensive midfielders). Neither of them have ever played there and don't have that defensive mind. I am 100% sure that if we had a genuine defensive midfielder, that he would've been in the space between Van Dijk and Matip, in front of Rodriguez. Chamberlain has no idea what he is doing there, he should've bust a gut to fill up that space.

      Again, where would you want Moreno to be? The only option I see would be if Van Dijk moves forward to close down the space between Matip and him (which should be filled by a midfielder) and passes on Robson-Kanu to Moreno who comes inside. I'm not sure you want someone like Moreno marking Robson-Kanu though in case it's a high cross?

      Third goal:



      Standard set-piece set up. Notice both Can and Wijnaldum marking Dawson. Our quickest players are central and highest up the pitch (Salah, Mane, Moreno and Chamberlain) to immediately get the counter-attack going. West-Brom deliberately set up in a way which makes them able to deal with both the second ball (Van Dijk headed it central) and the counter-attack. Moreno can't be out of position here it's how we almost always set up, whether it's a corner or free kick in certain areas.



      Van Dijk heads it away, our attackers + Moreno ready to pounce, defence moves forward and should get on one line to play offside (line was non-existant, absolute shambles). Firmino and Moreno closest to the ball, so they have to press. He's still not out of position, Can and Wijnaldum should be dealing with Dawson.

      Moreno isn't out of position. He would only be out of positon if his starting position was where Can and Wijnaldum were. Both of them are still in the same position, but neither of them is dealing with Dawson.

      So saying he's out of position for all three is wrong when you could only argue that he's (at a push) out of position for one.

      Biggest issue for all three goals were our midfielders (Can mainly) and Matip.

      Behaviourally that’s called leakage Danzel. A very long, inflated post that’s based on a false premise.

      He was out of position and - as I said - Robbo has been too. I see him learning - I don’t see the same in Bertie.

       That didn’t lead to the opportunities but it did inhibit his ability to influence the game defensively.

      I agree re the midfield but I’ve zero doubt he’ll have said to Bertie you need to switch on quicker and you need to be here and this side etc once the ball turns over.

      You play a bit I know and I’ve coached for a very long time. 

      We all see what we want to see and you’re in denial mate.

      Anyways I like your posts 👍
      Danzel
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #767: Jan 29, 2018 07:45:42 pm
      Behaviourally that’s called leakage Danzel. A very long, inflated post that’s based on a false premise.

      He was out of position and - as I said - Robbo has been too. I see him learning - I don’t see the same in Bertie.

       That didn’t lead to the opportunities but it did inhibit his ability to influence the game defensively.

      I agree re the midfield but I’ve zero doubt he’ll have said to Bertie you need to switch on quicker and you need to be here and this side etc once the ball turns over.

      You play a bit I know and I’ve coached for a very long time. 

      We all see what we want to see and you’re in denial mate.

      Anyways I like your posts 👍

      Not based on a false premise. I watched the footage of the goals and what all our players were doing. I also agreed with you that he didn't play well. I just disagreed with you on the positioning for the goals and ultimately agreed with you on the second one.

      I was asking an explanation. I know you coached, so I thought I might learn a thing or two. It was an honest question (as I said, I was genuinely wondering), rather than me trying to prove you wrong. I thought that with adding in the images it would be easier for you to explain why you say he's out of position without having to waste your time on having to look it all up yourself.

      I assume you wanted him to drop off a bit and get closer to Van Dijk for the first one, fair enough.
      Second one I see where you're coming from.
      Third one we'll never agree, haha.
      Scotia
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #768: Jan 29, 2018 08:11:42 pm
      Not based on a false premise. I watched the footage of the goals and what all our players were doing. I also agreed with you that he didn't play well. I just disagreed with you on the positioning for the goals and ultimately agreed with you on the second one.

      I was asking an explanation. I know you coached, so I thought I might learn a thing or two. It was an honest question (as I said, I was genuinely wondering), rather than me trying to prove you wrong. I thought that with adding in the images it would be easier for you to explain why you say he's out of position without having to waste your time on having to look it all up yourself.

      I assume you wanted him to drop off a bit and get closer to Van Dijk for the first one, fair enough.
      Second one I see where you're coming from.
      Third one we'll never agree, haha.

      Fair enough mate

      To be honest I missed the invite.......my lad’s 17th today and we’d just finished eating but  I wanted to do you the courtesy of a response.

      In fairness I was referring to the shape / recovery overall that led to poor shape and constant sense of panic NOT just the goals.

      In general with both fullbacks (and you’re spot on the midfield) on Saturday my frustration was with their defensive lines after we lost possession. Trent and Bertie didn’t react to the opposition OR the position of our own men but rather moved a bit like a computer player.....”where’s my safe place? retreat to safe place”.

      It’s a constant risk with zonal - that players do that and you always hope (and try to encourage) that they start to read likely lines of attack as well.

      Anyways good luck to you - I do enjoy your posts and we all have favourites (especially me) 😉
      siavashiva
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #769: Jan 29, 2018 08:17:33 pm
      I'm with Scotia on this one. Moreno could have easily prevented the first two goals if his mind worked quicker.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #770: Jan 29, 2018 08:19:57 pm
      Magillionare
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #771: Jan 29, 2018 08:25:54 pm
      I'm with Scotia on this one. Moreno could have easily prevented the first two goals if his mind worked quicker.

      Eh...

      No

      First goal is all down to the midfield (Can especially for me) not closing down effectively. Moreno needs to watch the overlap from their number 8 and only closes down once everyone else in the team has sh*t the bed. To blame him in that situation shows a basic lack of understanding of positional play and only exudes a callow bias against Alberto.

      Second goal on the other hand he's caught on his heels, should be reacting a little faster but VvD is very weak, Can the c**t gives up and if he keeps tracking he may disrupt play but ultimately is Ox who loses sight of Rodriquez when he should have been tracking his run.

      To blame Moreno for the first two goals here is utterly incorrect. It's the third where I think 'what the f**k is he doing' he's nowhere near where he needs to be and I would have him at fault for it.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #772: Jan 29, 2018 08:26:51 pm

      I believe the answer to the first questions is also the second word of it
      siavashiva
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #773: Jan 29, 2018 08:35:42 pm
      Eh...

      No

      First goal is all down to the midfield (Can especially for me) not closing down effectively. Moreno needs to watch the overlap from their number 8 and only closes down once everyone else in the team has sh*t the bed. To blame him in that situation shows a basic lack of understanding of positional play and only exudes a callow bias against Alberto.

      Second goal on the other hand he's caught on his heels, should be reacting a little faster but VvD is very weak, Can the c**t gives up and if he keeps tracking he may disrupt play but ultimately is Ox who loses sight of Rodriquez when he should have been tracking his run.

      To blame Moreno for the first two goals here is utterly incorrect. It's the third where I think 'what the f**k is he doing' he's nowhere near where he needs to be and I would have him at fault for it.

      I'm not solely blaming him for the first two, as I believe it was a chain of multiple f**k ups. All I'm saying is Dani Alves would have put a tackle in and probably saved our bacon in both cases.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #774: Jan 29, 2018 08:36:34 pm
      I'm not solely blaming him for the first two, as I believe it was a chain of multiple f**k ups. All I'm saying is Dani Alves would have put a tackle in and probably saved our bacon in both cases.

      Dani Alves would have been playing right back
      Scotia
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #775: Jan 29, 2018 08:38:38 pm
      Eh...

      No

      First goal is all down to the midfield (Can especially for me) not closing down effectively. Moreno needs to watch the overlap from their number 8 and only closes down once everyone else in the team has sh*t the bed. To blame him in that situation shows a basic lack of understanding of positional play and only exudes a callow bias against Alberto.

      Second goal on the other hand he's caught on his heels, should be reacting a little faster but VvD is very weak, Can the c**t gives up and if he keeps tracking he may disrupt play but ultimately is Ox who loses sight of Rodriquez when he should have been tracking his run.

      To blame Moreno for the first two goals here is utterly incorrect. It's the third where I think 'what the f**k is he doing' he's nowhere near where he needs to be and I would have him at fault for it.

      Ok just so we’re clear I never blamed him for being the root cause of the goals.

      I said his overall performance was a significant factor in the poor defensive shape and performance that DID lead to the goals. I happen to think he could have done better in his recovery on all 3 (funnily enough - for me - least of all the third).

      My original point was meant to be a wee bit tongue in cheek with Danzel because we’ve exchanged (in good spirits) re Bertie / Robbo before. His extremely detailed post pinpointed everybody vaguely involved BUT Bertie......

      He had a mare but he was only about the halfway point in the shitstakes on Saturday.

      We all see things differently so please don’t debate my ignorant musings any more 👍
      Magillionare
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #776: Jan 29, 2018 08:41:06 pm
      Ok just so we’re clear I never blamed him for being the root cause of the goals.

      I said his overall performance was a significant factor in the poor defensive shape and performance that DID lead to the goals. I happen to think he could have done better in his recovery on all 3 (funnily enough - for me - least of all the third).

      My original point was meant to be a wee bit tongue in cheek with Danzel because we’ve exchanged (in good spirits) re Bertie / Robbo before. His extremely detailed post pinpointed everybody vaguely involved BUT Bertie......

      He had a mare but he was only about the halfway point in the shitstakes on Saturday.

      We all see things differently so please don’t debate my ignorant musings any more 👍

      I'd agree overall he didn't have a great game at all, unfortunately much like most of our players as you say.

      Think Robbo should remain first choice but having Moreno back can only be good as no way you can have the output Robertson has without some need for resting.
      Scotia
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      Re: Liverpool 2-3 West Brom
      Reply #777: Jan 29, 2018 08:42:05 pm
      I'd agree overall he didn't have a great game at all, unfortunately much like most of our players as you say.

      Think Robbo should remain first choice but having Moreno back can only be good as no way you can have the output Robertson has without some need for resting.

      Agreed

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