Overall a good summary Danzel.
That said - I can’t help but feel that you’re going out of your way to avoid implicating Moreno in any of that. I know you’ve been an advocate.
Whilst I’d agree with your primary sources above - his “switching off” meant he wasn’t able to respond to the errors of others in the way he should.
He’s in the wrong position on all 3. The sweeping second full-back is vital in the zonal system and Alberto struggles with the level of concentration it demands.
That Trent was so poor is not a get out of jail for Bertie on the other side.
The CBs were massively compromised on the night due to the two fullbacks. I’ve ssid elsewhere that they were too split without the ball.
Robbo - although I’m a avowed fan - has only just started to twig to this as well after the first few games of his run in the team.
Good summary though - enjoyed it, thanks.
To start off with, I agree with the fact that both
full backs were an issue during the game, I however disagree that Moreno is out of position for all three of the goals.
I didn't go out of my way to avoid implicating Moreno at all. I like Wijnaldum too, contrary to the general opinion on these forums, and I've mentioned him in all three of the goals. Had it been Robertson, I wouldn't have mentioned him either.
As you say, I mentioned primary reasons to why we conceded. Wrong passes, losing possession, not tracking runners, ... Perhaps ultimately
he could have helped avoid one (the second one), but the chainreaction of errors by teammates shouldn't happen in the first place and I don't think it's a full back's job to bail out the team when a central opposition player (Rodriguez) is causing problems with which our midfielders and CB's should be dealing.
I have rewatched all the goals multiple times and taken some screenshots (I don't know how to work with gifs) with regards to Moreno's position. I'm genuinely wondering where you would have preferred him to be, because I honestly (nothing to do with me "liking" Moreno) don't see much wrong.First goal:
Ready to receive a pass from Wijnaldum to set up the attacking move with either Mane who would've moved out wide or Firmino who is ready to come into midfield.
This is right after Wijnaldum loses possession in the middle. Can is on Rodriguez all the time.
Here he is level with Trent, Matip and Van Dijk both slightly deeper after Matip dealt with the long ball. As soon as Wijnaldum loses possession, he rushes to the middle to try and block Rodriguez's shot.
Where would you want him to be? He is already very narrow, Klopp doesn't want him holding hands with Van Dijk. If he gets even narrower, the West-Brom player on the right has a boulevard and Moreno would never get to him in time if the ball is played out wide.
Robertson would've been in the same position. We have actually conceded goals in a similar way with Robertson arriving "late" too. Thing is, Robertson (and Moreno) aren't late or out of position (in my opinion), they're trying to rectify mistakes by teammates but they have to cover too much ground. Second goal:
This is right after Can gets beaten by Krychowiak. You see the space he leaves. Defensive line looks good, spacing looks good, they're all in position. After this, Chamberlain moves into the space Can has vacated, but doesn't pick up Rodriguez who goes there too (Wijnaldum could've picked him up). Krychowiak is forced wide, Matip and Trent, after first closing the gap in the middle, move out wide too. In the middle Van Dijk is on Robson-Kanu.
Right before the cross. No one at all is in a position to cut out the cross. That for me is the biggest issue we have in midfield. The fact that our midfielders rotate, puts us in situations where our #6 and most defensive midfielder is pressing while his position is being covered by a #8 (Wijnaldum and Chamberlain are both offensive midfielders). Neither of them have ever played there and don't have that defensive mind. I am 100% sure that if we had a genuine defensive midfielder, that he would've been in the space between Van Dijk and Matip, in front of Rodriguez. Chamberlain has no idea what he is doing there, he should've bust a gut to fill up that space.
Again, where would you want Moreno to be? The only option I see would be if Van Dijk moves forward to close down the space between Matip and him (which should be filled by a midfielder) and passes on Robson-Kanu to Moreno who comes inside. I'm not sure you want someone like Moreno marking Robson-Kanu though in case it's a high cross?Third goal:
Standard set-piece set up. Notice both Can and Wijnaldum marking Dawson. Our quickest players are central and highest up the pitch (Salah, Mane, Moreno and Chamberlain) to immediately get the counter-attack going. West-Brom deliberately set up in a way which makes them able to deal with both the second ball (Van Dijk headed it central) and the counter-attack. Moreno can't be out of position here it's how we almost always set up, whether it's a corner or free kick in certain areas.
Van Dijk heads it away, our attackers + Moreno ready to pounce, defence moves forward and should get on one line to play offside (line was non-existant, absolute shambles). Firmino and Moreno closest to the ball, so they have to press. He's still not out of position, Can and Wijnaldum should be dealing with Dawson.
Moreno isn't out of position. He would only be out of positon if his starting position was where Can and Wijnaldum were. Both of them are still in the same position, but neither of them is dealing with Dawson.
So saying he's out of position for all three is wrong when you could only argue that he's (at a push) out of position for one.
Biggest issue for all three goals were our midfielders (Can mainly) and Matip.