Alisson Becker (AS Roma)

Why not? City won the Premier League from Ederson, who as we all saw in the 4 games we played them last season, is not very good other than with his feet. Real has won 3 straight CL finals with Navas, who is also not in the top echelon of goalies. Leicester won the Premier League with Schmeichel, who no one would put as one of the best goalies out there unless they were talking about his father. We won the CL with Dudek, and reached 2 other finals under Klopp with Mignolet and neither loss was due to our goalie.

Klopp, as he has told us before when everyone was criticizing the back 4 (pre-VVD days), sees defense as a team effort, not just individual positions and i guess that is why he was fine using Weidenfeller all those years at Dortmund and why i think he'll stick with Karius, and rightfully so after the way the team performed defensively over the 2nd half of the season.

Edit

Mig was at fault in the cup finals...

Finished edit


Maybe I should rephrase it sorry, if we want to be league challengers we need a solid keeper

The Madrid and city keeper for me are a couple of levels better than karius based on performance

As I said before, I really want us to challenge and I will try to explain it what I feel and sorry if I come across patronising

Look at the top teams in the world that had consistent success in the last 15 years, that doesn’t include us btw the best we got was under Rafa (note Reina was a beast back then....see the importance of a top keeper )

You just can’t have a keeper costing you points, I am not saying karius may not have have a big improvement and be a good keeper but at the moment he is not

We have invested so much money

Our squad is now worth over 300 million with good players on their prime wanted by other teams

This is the TIME we do not take gambles, we have the money, we have the players, we have the manager, so on earth won’t we get a good keeper ? Navas and enderson are good keepers, remember I ain’t asking for a world beater all though I would love on but you need someone reliable on goal to be a consistent high level team

Look at degea- without him united would have been in the Europa a few more times

I would say a top keeper wins you 12-15 points per season and yes the figure is from my ass but I think it’s a good number

Our keepers - note I said keepers as both are not good enough and bang average. Actually cost is points, not won but cost us. I would bet a lot of money to say they cost us 9 points if not more last season

Let’s say we get a good keeper

Provided our scouts do a good job that’s 9 points is better off

I would expect a good keeper to win is 5 points

That’s 14 points...

My point is his

Our room for improvement is MASSIVE with a good keeper, we are in a position we should not take a risk, we have the resources to make our own destiny and not rely on the gods that our keeper will catch a football...

I firmly believe we are a good keeper away from fighting with city

If we keep karius and co then imo we will not fight for 1st but 2nd

Hope it makes sense buddy, the room for growth is huge with a keeper, even if we get a keeper that does what karius does in the good aspects which should be easy in this market and considering his level and we get one that cuts out both of our keepers mistakes

We have made a huge improvement

A top team can’t have a liability in goal, it’s that simple really and sadly we have two liabilities.

Note I am not attacking them as a person, I wish them well at another club at their level

Let’s take the leap, let’s not be dreamers, let’s take control and force our way to the top

We won the CL with Dudek, and reached 2 other finals under Klopp with Mignolet and neither loss was due to our goalie.

Well actually Migs was massively at fault for the goal we conceded v City in the League cup final, there’s no way Fernandinho’s shot should have gone in. Then in a penalty shootout vs City he again failed to step up.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x8WG5nGWEp8


He was far from brilliant vs Sevilla either, maybe harsh but IMO it was a feeble attempt at stopping the 2nd and 3rd goals.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E3jOXjPy3yo


So if you deem them 2 performances as suitable for a keeper in a final, I strongly disagree and the one vs City in particular wasn’t much better than the f**k ups by Karius.

As bad as Dudek sometimes was, unlike the clown Mignolet, he stepped up when it mattered most so I can’t believe you are even comparing our finals with Dudek to our finals with Migs.

wait, he really said that? 

No I didn't, it was meant tongue in cheek, I just think he's sh*t rather than corrupt.

This cracks me up. The past couple years under Klopp when we had an inconsistent defense everyone was frustrated that we were not able to keep a clean sheet, but when we do and are the best at it over half a season, suddenly they are overrated. Can't make this sh*t up. By the way, he also had the fewest goals allowed per 90 minutes since he took over 

As for your reason for the upturn, that is just brutal. Point out flaws and areas for improvement, sure, but to completely disregard someone's contribution to the team and say it was all due to someone else is as shitty as it gets. Even posters like Heimdall, who has a Karius pin doll, has admitted, even vaguely, that he did well once he took over as the #1. And why would you care who the goalie is when it's all really due to Van Dijk, Robertson and Arnold, anyways?

Why would i care who the goalkeeper is? Because he is the last line of defence, that's why. When the back line is breached he is the difference between losing, drawing or winning, that's why.

What is brutal about stating facts? Lovren is not good enough, that is plain to see. Yes, the acquisition of a defensive midfielder will paper over the mentally fragile chasms in Lovren's game but again, when that line is breached Lovren will be exposed again and again and again.

Like you are sick to death of hearing about people going on about Karius i am also sick to death of hearing people going on about how Lovren is starting to show how good he is. Dejan f**king Lovren is going into his 6th Season, yes that is right, his 6th Season here and still people are talking about him starting to show how good he is. This arse clown is sucking £5million a year out of this Club while masquerading as a centre back.

Where have i said that Karius isn't a good keeper? Please point this out, i assure you that you will not find a single post. I have said time and time again that Karius is a good keeper, he just isn't good enough yet.

If we put Karius up for sale would City, United, Chelsea, Spurs or even Everton come in for him? If you are honest with yourself i think you'll find the answer would be a resounding no. Ederson, De Gea, Courtois, Lloris and even Pickford are better keepers than Karius at this current moment in time.

If we have serious aspirations of winning the Premier League this Season then we need a master between the sticks, not an apprentice. If Klopp can't get a keeper (he is obviously looking for one) at the right price then i will back him as i always do but the very fact that Jürgen is looking for one tells its own story. This Season will make or break Karius, his mental fortitude will be tested to the limit. I really hope it is the former.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D55I3zOAhNA

I like Ms Reddy!

Anyway, I would still love a strong experienced/established  keeper, a keeper that can play for the next 2-3 seasons at the very least, but I wouldn't cry if Karius is kept as our #1, and part of me wants that because I don't want us to turn our backs on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D55I3zOAhNA

I like Ms Reddy!

Anyway, I would still love a strong experienced/established  keeper, a keeper that can play for the next 2-3 seasons at the very least, but I wouldn't cry if Karius is kept as our #1, and part of me wants that because I don't want us to turn our backs on him.

My dadcu always told me that everything said before the word 'but' was absolute sh*te. I don't think any of us would turn our backs on Karius. With the keepers that are available on the market we are looking for a keeper with at least 8 Seasons in him, possibly ten. That's why i don't see the issue with splashing out top top coin on a top class keeper.

My dadcu always told me that everything said before the word 'but' was absolute sh*te. I don't think any of us would turn our backs on Karius. With the keepers that are available on the market we are looking for a keeper with at least 8 Seasons in him, possibly ten. That's why i don't see the issue with splashing out top top coin on a top class keeper.

We won't!!

Alisson bumped us off for Madrid, we won't get Oblak and Courtois wants to move to Spain.

We'll stick with Karius & Ward or bring a back up keeper in.

We won't!!

Alisson bumped us off for Madrid, we won't get Oblak and Courtois wants to move to Spain.

We'll stick with Karius & Ward or bring a back up keeper in.

You want to know know what my issue is (you probably don't but here it is anyway)?

If we are stuck with all three keepers for the start of the Season then i would honestly go with Ward. I said as much last Season when Klopp dropped Mignolet.

I just don't get Klopp sometimes. Ward goes out to Aberdeen and claims 13 clean sheets in 21 games, Klopp calls him back early. He ends up playing 2 games. Following Season he goes to Huddersfield, has a phenomenal Season, helping them get into the Premier League. Huddersfield try to sign him permanently, Klopp refuses to sell and then lets him rot. I just don't get it.

He can't get a game, he goes out on loan and proves himself, twice. Clownoglet and Kalamitous drop clangers and still Ward can't get a look in. If you don't rate him just let him go, it's cruel seeing a keeper wasted like that.

As for commanding the box, that is actually something that Karius is pretty good at. One of the problems with Migs coming out is that he'd flap at the ball while Karius actually punches or catches it. In the CL game against Sevilla he came out and almost knocked out cold a Sevilla player (though the play was called offsides) and did the same against Porto (i believe). He also HOLDS ONTO the ball, which is refreshing to see. As a good example, there's that play against Newcastle where he caught a cross (maybe it was a free kick?) and ended up with the Newcastle player's head in his arms between the ball and his face. Not just is Karius better all-around that Simon, but his style fits ours perfectly.

Karius is definitely better as a sweeper keeper than Mignolet, sure, but I genuinely think they're both poor at commanding the box. Actually, I'm trying to think of which PL keepers I'd definitely rate worse than ours in that regard. Sincerely, not many. Karius punching the ball into the path of Wanyama to strike may have been the most costly (and yeah, everyone makes mistakes, I know), but it wasn't an isolated incident.

In the end, I pound the table for keepers who have a commanding presence, communicate strongly, and possess good judgement. Obviously it's not easy to find ones who shine in all three while also stopping challenging shots, but I find Karius considerably lacking in the qualities I value most. As I've said before, I envy you fans who can watch defensive scenarios involving Karius and Lovren and not be filled with a dreaded sense of vulnerability.

You want to know know what my issue is (you probably don't but here it is anyway)?

If we are stuck with all three keepers for the start of the Season then i would honestly go with Ward. I said as much last Season when Klopp dropped Mignolet.

I just don't get Klopp sometimes. Ward goes out to Aberdeen and claims 13 clean sheets in 21 games, Klopp calls him back early. He ends up playing 2 games. Following Season he goes to Huddersfield, has a phenomenal Season, helping them get into the Premier League. Huddersfield try to sign him permanently, Klopp refuses to sell and then lets him rot. I just don't get it.

He can't get a game, he goes out on loan and proves himself, twice. Clownoglet and Kalamitous drop clangers and still Ward can't get a look in. If you don't rate him just let him go, it's cruel seeing a keeper wasted like that.

I only saw a bit of Ward during Huddersfield's promotion season while he was on loan there. Not enough to convincingly back him to not crumble to the unenviable scrutiny being the Liverpool goalie will now have. The mental aspect could easily break a number of seasoned pros. It would take a cool cucumber indeed not to make howlers when you know the one thing you can't do is make freaking howlers!

As for Ward, I feel he has been reduced to that convenient homegrown third string goalie for registration purposes. Wouldn't be the worst outcome for him or us if he was learning behind one or two commanding senior keepers.

To be fair how much of Alisson have you actually seen? I’ve seen him play 3 times at most and he looked far from being a £60mill player.

Make it 4 times seen him play now. Didn’t really have anything to do but when he was needed most he didn’t deliver again IMO. Why a keeper is stood still on his line, when a corner is played midway into the 6 yard box, I expect any keeper to be coming out and at the least, punching that clear. The header was even in line with him, not even like it was a flicked header as the player was making a run. Standing there flat footed, with the ball played in so close to him isn’t good enough IMO and we’d be slating Migs and Karius if that was one of them.

£80mill World class keeper my ass. Madrid can have him.

I only saw a bit of Ward during Huddersfield's promotion season while he was on loan there. Not enough to convincingly back him to not crumble to the unenviable scrutiny being the Liverpool goalie will now have. The mental aspect could easily break a number of seasoned pros. It would take a cool cucumber indeed not to make howlers when you know the one thing you can't do is make freaking howlers!

As for Ward, I feel he has been reduced to that convenient homegrown third string goalie for registration purposes. Wouldn't be the worst outcome for him or us if he was learning behind one or two commanding senior keepers.

Please tell me who the 2 commanding senior keepers are? Have we just signed 2 commanding senior keepers and i know nothing about it? Haven't seen any reports anywhere. Do you have a link to the article?

Thank You.

Make it 4 times seen him play now. Didn’t really have anything to do but when he was needed most he didn’t deliver again IMO. Why a keeper is stood still on his line, when a corner is played midway into the 6 yard box, I expect any keeper to be coming out and at the least, punching that clear. The header was even in line with him, not even like it was a flicked header as the player was making a run. Standing there flat footed, with the ball played in so close to him isn’t good enough IMO and we’d be slating Migs and Karius if that was one of them.

£80mill World class keeper my ass. Madrid can have him.

Watched the game this morning when i got in from work. That was an absolutely shocking piece of goalkeeping by Allison. He didn't even try to catch or punch away the ball and it was an easy claim if he wanted it.

Please tell me who the 2 commanding senior keepers are? Have we just signed 2 commanding senior keepers and i know nothing about it? Haven't seen any reports anywhere. Do you have a link to the article?

Thank You.

Haha sorry, I didn't word that great at all! What I meant to imply was that it wouldn't necessarily be a waste for him or us if he was kept in that third string homegrown goalie role while also backing up one or two commanding keepers (if we had them on our roster, Of course!), from whom to learn and develop more than just goalkeeping technique under, because as we've seen goalies often hit their prime years much later than outfield players. That would be worth turning down a fee from Huddersfield knowing that he'd have a good chance of pushing into your top two before his contract ended (while also freeing up another registration slot for a foreign outfield player who'd likely get more game time for us than a backup keeper).

Instead, however, as you pointed out, the reality is that the guy is rotting behind two keepers that (despite the delusional assessments of many here) few PL sides would replace their own starting keepers with (even if they could be brought in for free). Neither getting frequent game time of a reasonable standard, nor developing the intangibles from which greatness often blossoms.

One could definitely argue that is a waste. Especially because the cynic within many of us could imagine Ward leaving on a free to some lower PL club in three years and ending up having a better season than whatever options we have between the sticks at that time, before being bought by West Ham for 10 mil or something haha

Karius is definitely better as a sweeper keeper than Mignolet, sure, but I genuinely think they're both poor at commanding the box. Actually, I'm trying to think of which PL keepers I'd definitely rate worse than ours in that regard. Sincerely, not many. Karius punching the ball into the path of Wanyama to strike may have been the most costly (and yeah, everyone makes mistakes, I know), but it wasn't an isolated incident.

In the end, I pound the table for keepers who have a commanding presence, communicate strongly, and possess good judgement. Obviously it's not easy to find ones who shine in all three while also stopping challenging shots, but I find Karius considerably lacking in the qualities I value most. As I've said before, I envy you fans who can watch defensive scenarios involving Karius and Lovren and not be filled with a dreaded sense of vulnerability.

I'm assuming you mean the game at Anfield where we tied 2-2? If so, that was 100% the right play / punch by Karius. Hard cross with pace you can't just swat away but need a hard punch that'll take it out of the box. There were 2 problems with that play that costs us, 1. the ball went right past Can's feet who perhaps was dreaming of Italy and did not have the quickness to control the ball, and 2. that Wanyama hit a bomb that he has never hit before and never will again.

You want to know know what my issue is (you probably don't but here it is anyway)?

If we are stuck with all three keepers for the start of the Season then i would honestly go with Ward. I said as much last Season when Klopp dropped Mignolet.

I just don't get Klopp sometimes. Ward goes out to Aberdeen and claims 13 clean sheets in 21 games, Klopp calls him back early. He ends up playing 2 games. Following Season he goes to Huddersfield, has a phenomenal Season, helping them get into the Premier League. Huddersfield try to sign him permanently, Klopp refuses to sell and then lets him rot. I just don't get it.

He can't get a game, he goes out on loan and proves himself, twice. Clownoglet and Kalamitous drop clangers and still Ward can't get a look in. If you don't rate him just let him go, it's cruel seeing a keeper wasted like that.

As a backup, because no sane person would start next season with a goalie who's yet to play any significant time in the premier league or any top level really. The one thing i do hope happens for him is that he either gets the back up job or goes somewhere else, loan or transfer, where he can get some playing time. At 24yo he's wasting away as 3rd choice and U23s.

and just saw the highlights of the Brazil-Switzerland game, and yes, that tying goal is yet another non-impressive play from Alisson. Goes to show getting an improvement over what we already have is not as easy as people think. 60M for him? No thanks.

I'm assuming you mean the game at Anfield where we tied 2-2? If so, that was 100% the right play / punch by Karius. Hard cross with pace you can't just swat away but need a hard punch that'll take it out of the box. There were 2 problems with that play that costs us, 1. the ball went right past Can's feet who perhaps was dreaming of Italy and did not have the quickness to control the ball, and 2. that Wanyama hit a bomb that he has never hit before and never will again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzN_mdFaBec

Perspective is an interesting thing. Sure, it wasn't a floated cross, but nor was it a particularly whipped in cross. I've seen confident, commanding keepers claim those balls. Others would punch the ball firmly into the air more. This not only allows defenders more time to get into a position to either clear the ball or block a shot if an attacker reached it first, but it's also harder for a striker to cooordinate the first time volley when he must raise and then lower his eyes so quickly.

In my opinion, Karius did not punch the ball hard but instead parried the ball centrally at a perfect height and pace to execute a higher success strike. Could Can have done better? Sure. Could Wanyama actually replicate a convincing shot on target past all those bodies if he was given another 10 shots? Perhaps not. Perhaps he could've just played a cushioned a pass to a relatively open Alli just inside the box.

But respectfully, I still remain critical of Karius' play here, and the unconvincing fashion he goes about most of his work.

As a backup, because no sane person would start next season with a goalie who's yet to play any significant time in the premier league or any top level really. The one thing i do hope happens for him is that he either gets the back up job or goes somewhere else, loan or transfer, where he can get some playing time. At 24yo he's wasting away as 3rd choice and U23s.

That is your opinion, which of course you are completely entitled to. Let's just say that Ward hasn't moaned or whinged, he's gone out on loan twice and did a good job on both occasions. The Championship is a tough League and extremely physical. Ward did a great job at Huddersfield which is why they tried to sign him permanently at the end of the campaign. Karius had hardly played in the Premier League until the demise of Mignolet. I'm hoping we sign a top quality keeper so this becomes less of a worry going into the new Season.

That is your opinion, which of course you are completely entitled to. Let's just say that Ward hasn't moaned or whinged, he's gone out on loan twice and did a good job on both occasions. The Championship is a tough League and extremely physical. Ward did a great job at Huddersfield which is why they tried to sign him permanently at the end of the campaign. Karius had hardly played in the Premier League until the demise of Mignolet. I'm hoping we sign a top quality keeper so this becomes less of a worry going into the new Season.

But Jürgen Klopps opinion (the one that counts) must be that he's sh*te having watched him everyday in training only to pick him once

But Jürgen Klopps opinion (the one that counts) must be that he's sh*te having watched him everyday in training only to pick him once

Correctemundo, I'm baffled why people bang on about Ward as if he is some great saviour for us, it reminds me of how people wanted Bogdan to come in for Migs, we all remember how that one turned out!!

Klopp sees Ward day in day out and has obviously decided he is worse than Migs and Karius which is quite a damning judgement!

Correctemundo, I'm baffled why people bang on about Ward as if he is some great saviour for us, it reminds me of how people wanted Bogdan to come in for Migs, we all remember how that one turned out!!

Klopp sees Ward day in day out and has obviously decided he is worse than Migs and Karius which is quite a damning judgement!

Agree.

It baffles me as well.

If he was any good he'd have played more for us by now.

But Jürgen Klopps opinion (the one that counts) must be that he's sh*te having watched him everyday in training only to pick him once

Correctemundo, I'm baffled why people bang on about Ward as if he is some great saviour for us, it reminds me of how people wanted Bogdan to come in for Migs, we all remember how that one turned out!!

Klopp sees Ward day in day out and has obviously decided he is worse than Migs and Karius which is quite a damning judgement!

Agree.

It baffles me as well.

If he was any good he'd have played more for us by now.

You are all correct, it is baffling. What is more baffling is that even though we have three keepers here there is not one keeper who stands head and shoulders above all others. Now that is baffling.

Never really expected Ward to get given a run of games as Karius is essentially a Klopp signing and i understand his desire to allow Karius to prove himself. He hasn't yet but hopefully he will if Klopp doesn't get a keeper he is clearly after.