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      VAR

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      Keith Singleton
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      VAR
      Feb 18, 2018 11:24:44 pm
      Since VAR is going to be a regular talking point I think it deserves it's own topic. Not sure what section it goes in but I'm sure mods will correct it accordingly if wrong.

      Are members in favour of  what's looks like to be the future of football?

      Like anything in a new ruling there's always going to be teething problems. All though I haven't seen them I do think long term it's a very good idea. They say it's only to be used in clear and obvious circumstances. That wasn't the case recently as many will know. However, from the letter of the law the correct decision was made even though under suspicious circumstance ( just my opinion)

      Are you for it or against it? Thoughts welcome.
      srslfc
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #1: Feb 18, 2018 11:36:01 pm
      I'm against it.

      I think it's showing to be very slow and when a decision has been made it's still up for debate.

      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #2: Feb 18, 2018 11:43:48 pm
      I'm against it.

      I think it's showing to be very slow and when a decision has been made it's still up for debate.



      Presently it is srslfc but can only get better with time once they dot the I and cross the T's
      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #3: Feb 18, 2018 11:44:04 pm
      I think I'm out at this point. Mistakes are part of the game and one of the best bits for me. Would have preferred to see timekeeping taken out the refs hands, which would be my priority, and I think referees should be allowed to review a game afterwards and retroactively rescind or dish out cards, but this in-game stuff, not for me.
      srslfc
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #4: Feb 18, 2018 11:46:21 pm
      Presently it is srslfc but can only get better with time once they dot the I and cross the T's

      It's not for me mate and I say that as a fan of other sports that use video refereeing.

      It just doesn't fit with football.
      Dadorious
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #5: Feb 19, 2018 03:14:29 am
      Too clunky for me at the moment so in its current form it's a no from me.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #6: Feb 19, 2018 04:16:00 am
      Presently it is srslfc but can only get better with time once they dot the I and cross the T's

      And know when to fit the tv ad breaks in while they deliberate on the VAR decision!!

      It's a no from me.
      AussieRed
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #7: Feb 19, 2018 08:22:21 am
      Na, f**k it off.

      Don't want the game slowing down like that NFL does, where they review every bloody play, almost.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #8: Feb 19, 2018 11:46:21 am
      It's not for me mate and I say that as a fan of other sports that use video refereeing.

      It just doesn't fit with football.

      You watch Irish League mate? We could be doing with it other here given the standard of refereeing.
      heimdall
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #9: Feb 19, 2018 11:50:23 am
      Huge fan of it and its way overdue although it does need to be modified to make it fit football better. I'd suggest a tennis style review systems where each managers get a certain amount of reviews per match and in addition the ref can also go to VAR in exceptional circumstances.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #10: Feb 19, 2018 12:11:03 pm
      The question I would ask is how would it be adopted into the lower leagues and at grassroots, otherwise we're making a very big distinction between the professional and amateur game. And usually all the rules of the game encompass all levels. 
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #11: Feb 19, 2018 12:21:59 pm
      I am in favour in principle but needs refining and people need to be made aware of when it is being reviewed to avoid repeats of what happened in the fiorentina v juventus game when 3 minutes after a penalty was given it was overturned but everyone was just stood around not knowing why the penalty wasn't taken
      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #12: Feb 19, 2018 12:33:58 pm
      Huge fan of it and its way overdue although it does need to be modified to make it fit football better. I'd suggest a tennis style review systems where each managers get a certain amount of reviews per match and in addition the ref can also go to VAR in exceptional circumstances.

      Team reviews is a no for me.

      What a decision isn't given, the team then breaks and looks like a really dangerous break so a manager throws his use of review mainly to stop the break?

      Or if the ref allows the break and they score, but then goes to VAR and it is a penalty at the other end? How far do you go back?

      It would be used wrongly if manager's were allowed a review

      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #13: Feb 19, 2018 01:03:20 pm
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #14: Feb 19, 2018 02:22:31 pm

      Definitely get fu**ed off now if it's ruling out Man Utd goals!!
      heimdall
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #15: Feb 19, 2018 02:37:01 pm
      Team reviews is a no for me.

      What a decision isn't given, the team then breaks and looks like a really dangerous break so a manager throws his use of review mainly to stop the break?

      Or if the ref allows the break and they score, but then goes to VAR and it is a penalty at the other end? How far do you go back?

      It would be used wrongly if manager's were allowed a review



      Same as in Tennis, you have to appeal within a certain time limit of the incident and you can only do it a certain number of times per match. It will take some fine tuning but it could absolutely work.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #16: Feb 19, 2018 02:43:17 pm
      Definitely get fu**ed off now if it's ruling out Man Utd goals!!

       ;D
      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #17: Feb 19, 2018 02:46:16 pm
      Same as in Tennis, you have to appeal within a certain time limit of the incident and you can only do it a certain number of times per match. It will take some fine tuning but it could absolutely work.

      In cricket captains have worked out how and when to use it tactically

      It would defiantly be abused in football

      Not needed in my opinion
      heimdall
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #18: Feb 19, 2018 03:00:04 pm
      In cricket captains have worked out how and when to use it tactically

      It would defiantly be abused in football

      Not needed in my opinion

      I'm not quite sure that the English cricket captains have worked out how to use it tactically yet ;-)

      In all seriousness it will take some fine tuning but even if you just have a 5th official watching on TV with the ability to alert the on field ref about a potential review then that would be fine. The main thing is that the fans in the stadium need to be included in the review process at least via audio, if not video screens.
      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #19: Feb 19, 2018 03:12:48 pm
      I'm not quite sure that the English cricket captains have worked out how to use it tactically yet ;-)

      In all seriousness it will take some fine tuning but even if you just have a 5th official watching on TV with the ability to alert the on field ref about a potential review then that would be fine. The main thing is that the fans in the stadium need to be included in the review process at least via audio, if not video screens.

      Which will never happen as they don't even show replays in the ground
      FL Red
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #20: Feb 19, 2018 07:59:10 pm
      Na, f**k it off.

      Don't want the game slowing down like that NFL does, where they review every bloody play, almost.

      They don't review every play in the NFL. Coaches get 2 challenges per game, and if they use and win both, they get a third. If they lose a challenge they are penalized a time out (wouldn't affect soccer as there are no timeouts).

      I think if they give teams one challenge per game it could work.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #21: Feb 20, 2018 12:25:52 pm
      Quote from AussieRed
      Na, f**k it off.

      Don't want the game slowing down like that NFL does, where they review every bloody play, almost.

      I don't watch NFL, but I do know their sport takes much longer than ours. Obviously doesn't stop you watching it, or make it less popular. If you can stomach watching cricket games last 5 solid days that end up as a draw, you can allow a football referee take a couple of minutes more as necessary, to get a major decision right.

      I'm obviously 100% in favour as it's long overdue. I want to walk out of a stadium, (or finish watching a game) knowing that justice was done, it's not important how long it takes to get the correct decision as long as we get it.

      Communication issues need to be improved, but it's here, it's happening, it's correcting wrong decisions made, it's the future of the game at the highest level, and those who object to it are just going to have to get used to it. As in the other sports where it's used, there's no going back to human error officiating anymore.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #22: Feb 20, 2018 01:05:36 pm
      I'm obviously 100% in favour as it's long overdue. I want to walk out of a stadium, (or finish watching a game) knowing that justice was done, it's not important how long it takes to get the correct decision as long as we get it.

      So you not counting the fifth European Cup on the back of the uncertainty surrounding Luis Garcia's goal?

      chats
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #23: Feb 20, 2018 01:13:13 pm
      It's not good enough in it's current format and I'm glad that we didn't just stick it in the league straight away like they've done in Germany and Italy. Don't really agree with the idea of long breaks being acceptable because it gets to the correct decision - one of the appeals of football to me at least is the fast paced nature of it (even more so in this country) and the fact that it's done in 95 minutes or so.

      I do like it in principle though but still a lot of work to be done. Starting by allowing fans/viewers to hear what's going on would be decent and only using it for clear errors. If something's needing 3 minutes worth of replays then there's obviously some doubt so the on field ref's decision should just be stuck to.
      FL Red
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #24: Feb 20, 2018 01:30:15 pm
      Why not give the manager the option of having one play reviewed during the game (or if they could be efficient....one per half).

      So the most stoppages you'd get would be two per half and if the referees are that bad that you'd need to challenge them twice per half...then we need to get better trained officials (which is probably part of the equation already).

      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #25: Feb 20, 2018 01:36:07 pm
      It's not the FA's fault that fans and viewers can't hear anything, it's FIFA regulations, and like any other FIFA regulation, that's what we have to go with. And why we had no VAR while other sports could use it as they pleased, while laughing at us for accepting wrong decisions given.

      Quote from HUYTON RED
      So you not counting the fifth European Cup on the back of the uncertainty surrounding Luis Garcia's goal?

      Are you saying it wasn't a goal?

      I believe it was, but would have accepted the decision either way if we had VAR. At least he would have the chance to review the footage from multiple angles to make an informed decision, the ref had one.

      On the positive side, we would have had a penalty and balaclava head would have been off, if it wasn't given. It probably would have been a different kind of game after it as well.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #26: Feb 20, 2018 02:02:28 pm

      No I'm pretty much saying I don't like VAR as the system will take out pure emotional moments like what happened when that goal went in and the celebrations that followed. Most celebrations after VAR decisions are always muted when compared to moments like Garcia's goal.

      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #27: Feb 20, 2018 02:17:11 pm
      Quote from chats
      Don't really agree with the idea of long breaks being acceptable because it gets to the correct decision - one of the appeals of football to me at least is the fast paced nature of it (even more so in this country) and the fact that it's done in 95 minutes or so.

      If something's needing 3 minutes worth of replays then there's obviously some doubt so the on field ref's decision should just be stuck to.

      And did you say that after the Spurs game?

      I asked here, how much time was lost between the penalties awarded and taken. I got no response, either because nobody knew or cared.  However, there was plenty of comment about the length of time it took for our penalty to be taken against West Brom the week before.  ??? The difference was, we had the right decision then and we still had the wrong decision a week later.

      According to FIFA research, we lose more time by tactical subs being made, and time wasting over set pieces, throw ins and goal kicks, than any time lost over VAR. Now I know what I would prefer to lose time over, getting a decision correct instead of time wasting.

      A wrong decision can cost someone a game, a title, a trophy, a promotion, a place in Europe, a place in the league itself the next year, a player suspended, or even a manager his job. Not to mention the ref himself being blamed by players and managers because they lost the game. So it's essential to get decisions right, and if it takes a bit more time to get it, then it's worth it in the long run.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #28: Feb 20, 2018 06:23:24 pm
      Didn't need VAR in 2005 to know this was a goal.



      srslfc
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #29: Feb 20, 2018 09:54:05 pm
      You watch Irish League mate? We could be doing with it other here given the standard of refereeing.

      To be honest I rarely get the chance or time to watch local football mate but I know a guy who's a big Glens fan and he says the standard is abysmal.

      NFL, cricket, tennis etc are all sports with natural breaks in play where video reviews 'fit'. Football doesn't and I just think it's very cumbersome especially when the decision is still debatable after a video review.

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