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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. Fans vote for or against VAR

      VAR

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      HScRed1
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #161: Jun 25, 2018 09:55:52 pm
      But it is a contact sport

      Maybe accidentally but it's still contact. There's a difference between a coming together at high speed and a foul
      And when you're judging every coming together as a foul and removing the speed of the action and the context it's wrong

      Like it or not

      I think you are mistaking shithouse refereeing for mistakes by VAR.

      In every WC we get refs from some far flung place completely out of his depth managing the biggest game in his life.
      But I suppose FIFA think it’s a festival for the world which includes refs as well.

      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #162: Jun 25, 2018 09:59:14 pm
      A coming together than isn’t shoulder to shoulder or deemed as ‘shielding’ is a foul. Every time.



      No it's not because the attacker can instigate the contact at full speed

      Then slow it down and take it out of context and it can be given as a foul against the defender

      Anyway I'll leave it there cause we won't agree and I can't be bothered to argue

      It will be here to stay I'm sure I just hope they iron it out beyond the slight joke it's becoming
      Magillionare
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #163: Jun 25, 2018 10:01:50 pm
      No it's not because the attacker can instigate the contact at full speed

      Then slow it down and take it out of context and it can be given as a foul against the defender

      Anyway I'll leave it there cause we won't agree and I can't be bothered to argue

      It will be here to stay I'm sure I just hope they iron it out beyond the slight joke it's becoming

      You do know the replays aren’t only in slow motion don’t you...
      Kopite78
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #164: Jun 25, 2018 10:03:48 pm
      You do know the replays aren’t only in slow motion don’t you...

      Everyone we are shown are and they have stated on tv that we are seeing what the ref is seeing on the monitor

      Anyway like I say if you think it's flawless and adding to the game then sound mate. I don't. I can live with us having differing views like 👍
      Magillionare
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #165: Jun 25, 2018 10:05:54 pm
      Everyone we are shown are and they have stated on tv that we are seeing what the ref is seeing on the monitor

      Anyway like I say if you think it's flawless and adding to the game then sound mate. I don't. I can live with us having differing views like 👍

      They can change what they look at and have multiple angles from what I’m aware.

      It’s not flawless, but it’s better than mistake after mistake going unchecked
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #166: Jun 25, 2018 10:38:20 pm
      I think you are mistaking shithouse refereeing for mistakes by VAR.

      In every WC we get refs from some far flung place completely out of his depth managing the biggest game in his life.
      But I suppose FIFA think it’s a festival for the world which includes refs as well.



      Not like english refs are capable of bad mistakes
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #167: Jun 26, 2018 08:01:31 am
      All 3 major Group B game changing decisions correct imo.

      Foul in box of Portugal game = Penalty
      Handball in box of Iran game = Penalty (Ball hits raised arm of defender)
      Onside in Spain game = Goal

      Even without VAR, Handballs can be, and have been given these days for the arm in an unnatural position. The defender has his arm already up when the ball hits it. That can count as a handball offence. You can't con a camera so with VAR, a defender won't get away with that.

      The sceptics couldn't lose on it though. If it's given, they say it's not a penalty. If it isn't given, they say the refs are "biased towards the big teams". Well the so-called big team in the game had a game changing decision against them. But that's why we have VAR, to get decisions correct, regardless whether it's for a big team or a weaker team.

      For tv purposes, I would like to see the microphones opened up between the VAR and the onfield ref during an onfield review, for greater transparency. The conversation between them is all in English, so there's no issues with language. Other than that, I'm very happy with VAR, and want more of it across the board. This is not a trial, this is the real thing, and in a couple of years it will be the norm, probably extended to include corners, throw ins, second yellows, etc etc.

      Now a referee has more than "one look" at an incident available to him. The handball incident took a bit longer than normal so far at the tournament, but it's injury time of the last game of a group and the stakes are high. So we must have the correct decision, however long it takes.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #168: Jun 26, 2018 10:57:50 am
      I think you are mistaking shithouse refereeing for mistakes by VAR.

      In every WC we get refs from some far flung place completely out of his depth managing the biggest game in his life.
      But I suppose FIFA think it’s a festival for the world which includes refs as well.



      Exactly.

      VAR is showing clips of incidents, it does not decide. It's the ref's decision whether something is a penalty or not. VAR just assists him.

      It's still in it's infancy and it will only get better.
      chats
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #169: Jun 26, 2018 11:50:51 am
      When VAR stays in its remit, of dealing with clear and obvious errors (ie the howlers), then it works absolutely fine.

      It’s when it deals with the marginal calls that it becomes a bit of a disaster as we saw last night.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #170: Jun 26, 2018 12:26:54 pm
      When VAR stays in its remit, of dealing with clear and obvious errors (ie the howlers), then it works absolutely fine.

      It’s when it deals with the marginal calls that it becomes a bit of a disaster as we saw last night.

      But the calls are made by referees. VAR is basically showing referees clips of incidents, even the marginal ones, then the ref decides whether to give something or not. VAR has nothing to do with decision making.

      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #171: Jun 26, 2018 12:52:16 pm
      Quote from Kopite78
      Can't see it mate. There's been a few where I've felt it's changed a decision for the good and correct decision. But mainly it's changing the game already. Players constantly asking for var to be used, games slowed and the longer it's gone on through the tournament the more incorrect decisions being made

      What needs to be remembered is it's a contact game played at such pace nowadays and when those incidents are slowed down they take natural context away from the incident.
      It's making minimal contact look massive contact and therefore giving incorrect decisions

      If it's going to work it should be used only to overturn the clangers such as the Neymar pen against Costa Rica
      For subjective decisions the referee on pitch decision should stand

      And when it did, the English complained, and the Egyptians complained, and the Serbs complained. Written complaints in some cases.

      There have been more penalties awarded at this WC so far than any other. None of them have been for a forward diving. That would not be the case without VAR. One VAR screen alone has 16 camera angles available to review an incident at any given time. So the forward now has no chance of winning a penalty unless it's for a genuine foul.

      On the referee screen pitchside, there are buttons on the screen, to I assume, allow the ref to speed up or slow down a replay. We have seen examples of both happening, while reviews are taking place.

      We need this. We needed it many, many years ago. Now we have it, it's making a difference. And a positive one in many cases.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #172: Jun 26, 2018 01:13:00 pm
      But it is a contact sport

      Maybe accidentally but it's still contact. There's a difference between a coming together at high speed and a foul
      And when you're judging every coming together as a foul and removing the speed of the action and the context it's wrong

      Like it or not

      Yes it is a contact sport and little skirmishes will happen. Account has to be taken in the fact that it is a high tempo contact sport and red cards cannot be bandied about every time a player shows the slightest bit of temper. A good ref will be aware of that and judge accordingly.

      The Ronaldo incident was a yellow, no more than that. Yes he did brush his arm against a player. But a red card would've been very harsh. A more deliberate attempt to injure the player would've received a red card.

      This being VAR first go effectively, it will need some refining. Bound to be teething problems but it's here to stay.
      stuey
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #173: Jun 26, 2018 01:16:57 pm
      Was watching the Russia game and honest to Jesus the way they were falling about was comical, years ago the Russian side were F***ing animals and took absolutely no prisoners.

      In that game a Russian was in possession and the "challenge" came in, the inverted commas indicate some doubt in the definition of the word challenge; the oncoming player brushed his foot on the Russian's leg and went down like he'd been shot, the Russian felt the foot contact and sensed what was coming so he went down like a bag of sh*t as well.
      Looked like a scene from a pantomime, a bit more pantomime was the fact the foul was given when both players should have been booked.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #174: Jun 26, 2018 02:04:04 pm
      It's still F***ing sh*t as it's being judged by a gang of clueless cu*ts = refs!!

      Those masturbating themselves over the introduction of VAR in the prem just remember who'll be F***ing judging it.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #175: Jun 26, 2018 03:02:53 pm
      It's still f**king sh*t as it's being judged by a gang of clueless cu*ts = refs!!

      Those masturbating themselves over the introduction of VAR in the prem just remember who'll be f**king judging it.

      That's right...the anti LFC attitude runs very deep. The match ref will screw us over,then the VAR officials will do us over , then the FA will get us, then we will be hauled before UEFA & FIFA, then the Culture Secretary will condem us, they will hound us out of the game....we might as well chuck the feckin' towel in.

      It's a conspiracy for sure..
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #176: Jun 26, 2018 03:31:24 pm


      We need this. We needed it many, many years ago. Now we have it, it's making a difference. And a positive one in many cases.

      Yes we do need it but they simply have to iron out the problems quicker than what they're doing. The Iran v Portugal game was a farse re VAR. No intent with Ronaldo either. He was being blocked off twice from shutting down the ball, he puts arm out in front of blocker to clear the defender out who then goes down like he's been tasered.

      The ref doesn't see it but the idiots in the Moscow VAR room call him back to look at it. VAR are not helping the ref, they're putting him in a awful position. Both incidents are NOT clear and OBVIOUS fouls so play should go on as the ref did correctly.

      PS... I'm still for it even though still needs plenty of tweaking.  :D
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #177: Jun 26, 2018 05:04:14 pm
      They don't have to be clear and obvious. Everyone and his wife knows, it's simply a fancy FIFA phrase to justify everything be checked. It's only a title. The subjective  incidents still need to be investigated.

      I wouldn't describe it as a farce. I see it as necessary to decide who goes through, and who has to try again in 4 years time. Think about it. Some jobs and livelihoods are literally on the line, so it better be correct. So if it takes a couple of extra minutes to make it, I can live with that.

      The officials in Moscow are not "idiots". They are fully qualified professional referees who know the rulebook in side out. So after reviewing an incident, they say a decision is x, then they know what they're talking about better than the rest of us, and I fully accept their decision, be it for me, against me, or as a neutral observer.

      I don't see much more to iron out tbh. I believe what we're seeing at the WC, is the best and fastest application of it yet. Correct decisions are being made, cheating is being stamped out, and justice is being done, far more often than at any previous international tournament to date. That's why I want it to be universal in the game.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #178: Jun 26, 2018 05:28:38 pm
      VAR is the consequences of all the cheating that went on year in year out. It's almost impossible to tell if a player has genuinely been fouled in the area or has been injured.

      Going down in the area is an art form in itself. The trailing leg con, or deliberately getting yourself blocked off. Going down with the least amount of contact. All types of tricks and cons are tried to get a penalty. UEFA & FIFA should have clamped down on it with red cards, match bans but all that is given is a yellow and not unless the ref is convinced.

      Offsides and goal mouth technology are fine and can be judged clear cut 95% of the time but penalties and feigned injuries are open to debate and argument even with VAR and if anything VAR will increase the cheating.

      It's here to stay but I'm not sure it will solve the cheating and feigning of injuries that happen every game.
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #179: Jun 26, 2018 09:45:19 pm
      how come Rugby is much better refereed even the Video Ref's are so much better. The administration of football from the F.A through to UEFA and finally FIFA is just not fit for purpose.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #180: Jun 26, 2018 10:33:27 pm
      how come Rugby is much better refereed even the Video Ref's are so much better. The administration of football from the F.A through to UEFA and finally FIFA is just not fit for purpose.

      Because in most cases in Rugby where VAR is used, it's to determine whether the ball has been touched down as opposed to challengers in football in and around the penalty area which are far less clear cut.

      Offside and goal line decisions are just a matter of close observation, similarly with a Rugby touchdown. But a lot of other footballing clashes are a close call and could be justly called both ways. That's what leads to debate and disagreement. And that will never change, VAR or no VAR.
      « Last Edit: Jun 26, 2018 10:55:27 pm by Harrisimo »
      Billy1
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #181: Jun 27, 2018 09:18:47 am
      But the calls are made by referees. VAR is basically showing referees clips of incidents, even the marginal ones, then the ref decides whether to give something or not. VAR has nothing to do with decision making.



      Spot on it is the refs who make the decisions and basically VAR just does a rerun of the play on television.It is the refs who are incompetent as we found out in the European Champions final.
      mattmcg
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #182: Jun 27, 2018 09:56:37 am
      More clout should be given to the VAR’s sat in their studio to make a decision, IMO.  As soon as an incident occurs they have all the monitors and every angle imaginable to come to a correct decision. 

      Is there any need for the ref to laughably run off the pitch waving his arms to view on a tiny screen while the guys in the studio have already scrutinised everything?  It just wastes time and makes a mockery of the game when players start calling for VAR on every little thing.

      Just like in rugby when things are referred to the TMO... yes, the ref may have access to a big screen in the ground, but he always accepts the TMO’s judging on an incident. 

      I like VAR but it’s being run by imbeciles right now and no consistency from any referee.
      Billy1
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #183: Jun 27, 2018 10:36:33 am
      Maybe it is time F.I.F.A. sent the refs to school and educated them how to turn the television on and do reruns of the actual play. :f_steam:

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