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      VAR

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      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #400: Jun 22, 2019 12:17:46 pm
      So if the prem are not using var to enforce this on the line sh*te does that mean it's down to the game officials to spot it or will they let it go?

      The rule has always been there, it's just not rigorously enforced.
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #401: Jun 22, 2019 02:12:55 pm
      The fact the Premier League are going to avoid it does demonstrate how ridiculous the rule is and the enforcement of it.

      FIFA themselves have just announced that the rule will not be enforced by VAR in a penalty shootout in the Women's World Cup, which is an admission of the farce that it is.  :lmao:

      As I've already said, it is easy to get a goalkeeper sent off by deliberately missing the penalty. Bit of a loop hole there that they are only realising now!
      Boston not la
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #402: Jun 22, 2019 04:07:37 pm
      The rule has always been there, it's just not rigorously enforced.
       

      Fair enough,i thought they'd fu**ed around with the rules,guess i should pay more attention! :f_doh: still think it's f**king sh*te.
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #403: Jun 22, 2019 05:03:57 pm
      Quote from DanMann
      FIFA themselves have just announced that the rule will not be enforced by VAR in a penalty shootout in the Women's World Cup, which is an admission of the farce that it is.  :lmao:

      As I've already said, it is easy to get a goalkeeper sent off by deliberately missing the penalty. Bit of a loop hole there that they are only realising now!

      The rule will be enforced. There just won't be a yellow card for those who are caught off their line. Which is fair enough.

      Going back to the European Cup Final, at least half the delay before our penalty was the referee telling the Spurs keeper to stay on his line. The fact we scored doesn't mean it's one rule for the men and one rule for the women, it's the same for everyone. That's equality folks.
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #404: Jun 22, 2019 05:14:49 pm
      The rule will be enforced. There just won't be a yellow card for those who are caught off their line. Which is fair enough.


      Wait, but it's a rule.

      So why is it not enforced? I thought you were 100% in support of the rules being enforced?
      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #405: Jun 22, 2019 06:14:12 pm
       

      Fair enough,i thought they'd fu**ed around with the rules,guess i should pay more attention! :f_doh: still think it's f**king sh*te.

      No mate.
      They clamped down on it a few years back, because 'keepers were taking the piss, and out almost to the edge of their 6 yrd box at times.
      As long as they aren't too far out and one foot is close to/on the goal line, it seems they're not too fussed, which I pretty much agree with.
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #406: Jun 22, 2019 06:56:39 pm
      Quote from DanMann
      Wait, but it's a rule.

      So why is it not enforced? I thought you were 100% in support of the rules being enforced?

      The yellow card punishment was never a rule, it was only a directive. The rules will still be enforced at the tournament, as they have been.

      Quote from Swab
      No mate.
      They clamped down on it a few years back, because 'keepers were taking the piss, and out almost to the edge of their 6 yrd box at times.
      As long as they aren't too far out and one foot is close to/on the goal line, it seems they're not too fussed,

      What exactly is not too far out? If a keeper moves out before a kick and then saves it, surely they have gained an advantage.

      For most free kicks, defensive players must be 10 yards from the ball, and a line is drawn to enforce it. It's not ok to stand 9 yards or 9.5 yards away, it must be 10 yards, and you can't move until the kick is taken. Amazing how everyone manages to stick to it, without saying how unfair it is and demanding for it be changed.
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #407: Jun 22, 2019 07:04:01 pm
      The yellow card punishment was never a rule, it was only a directive. The rules will still be enforced at the tournament, as they have been.

      The rules state:

      "the goalkeeper or a team-mate infringes the Laws of the Game:
      if the ball enters the goal, a goal is awarded
      if the ball does not enter the goal, the kick is retaken; the goalkeeper is cautioned if responsible for the offence"

      So, the yellow card for the goalkeeper is there in the rules.

      In fact, FIFA clarify a little further that the "caution" given to the goalkeeper is a Yellow Card:

      "Q3: Why must the goalkeeper who infringes the Law at a penalty kick and causes the kick to be retaken, be cautioned (YC)?

      If the goalkeeper moves early (or infringes in any other way) this can directly affect the outcome of the penalty kick so introducing a caution (YC) is consistent with the increased punishment for the kicker and should deter goalkeepers from moving early etc"

      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #408: Jun 22, 2019 08:28:34 pm


      What exactly is not too far out? If a keeper moves out before a kick and then saves it, surely they have gained an advantage.

      For most free kicks, defensive players must be 10 yards from the ball, and a line is drawn to enforce it. It's not ok to stand 9 yards or 9.5 yards away, it must be 10 yards, and you can't move until the kick is taken. Amazing how everyone manages to stick to it, without saying how unfair it is and demanding for it be changed.

      Which part of "one foot is close to/on the goal line" are you finding difficult to understand?
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #409: Jun 22, 2019 09:33:39 pm
      The rules state:

      "the goalkeeper or a team-mate infringes the Laws of the Game:
      if the ball enters the goal, a goal is awarded
      if the ball does not enter the goal, the kick is retaken; the goalkeeper is cautioned if responsible for the offence"

      So, the yellow card for the goalkeeper is there in the rules.

      In fact, FIFA clarify a little further that the "caution" given to the goalkeeper is a Yellow Card:

      "Q3: Why must the goalkeeper who infringes the Law at a penalty kick and causes the kick to be retaken, be cautioned (YC)?

      If the goalkeeper moves early (or infringes in any other way) this can directly affect the outcome of the penalty kick so introducing a caution (YC) is consistent with the increased punishment for the kicker and should deter goalkeepers from moving early etc"



      Dan your flogging dead horse trying to explain  :D His rose tinted glasses on VAR will never change  :lmao:
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #410: Jun 22, 2019 10:33:48 pm
      Can I suggest a rule change. if the goalkeeper is now nailed to his line then maybe the Penalty taker too has no run up and just has to kick it with one foot rooted to the spot .
      This is the problem now they are trying to make the game error free which is going to kill the game. Just give the Refs better training maybe 4 lines people with some Gizmo to indicate offside etc but leave any interpretation to the REF
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #411: Jun 22, 2019 10:35:39 pm
      Quote from DanMann
      In fact, FIFA clarify a little further that the "caution" given to the goalkeeper is a Yellow Card:

      "Q3: Why must the goalkeeper who infringes the Law at a penalty kick and causes the kick to be retaken, be cautioned (YC)?

      If the goalkeeper moves early (or infringes in any other way) this can directly affect the outcome of the penalty kick so introducing a caution (YC) is consistent with the increased punishment for the kicker and should deter goalkeepers from moving early etc"

      I saw a broadcaster mention it yesterday, they specifically said the yellow card was a "directive", not a "rule". Personally I think the yellow is harsh, but if it's a rule, then the rule must be observed. If it's not a rule, it won't be.

      Quote from Swab
      Which part of "one foot is close to/on the goal line" are you finding difficult to understand?

      "close to" can be anything from half a yard to anything you want it to be.

      There is a line for a reason, it applies to every keeper at every level of the game, always has done. 12 yards from the spot, not 10, not 11, not 11.5, not 11.8, it is 12 yards and no less. As the Thailand goalkeeper showed during the week, once a part of a foot is on the line, there is nothing to review and you have no problem.
      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #412: Jun 23, 2019 12:24:04 pm
      "close to" can be anything from half a yard to anything you want it to be.

      There is a line for a reason, it applies to every keeper at every level of the game, always has done. 12 yards from the spot, not 10, not 11, not 11.5, not 11.8, it is 12 yards and no less. As the Thailand goalkeeper showed during the week, once a part of a foot is on the line, there is nothing to review and you have no problem.

      I see you choose to ignore context.
      Good luck with that.
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #413: Jun 23, 2019 01:37:22 pm
      I saw a broadcaster mention it yesterday, they specifically said the yellow card was a "directive", not a "rule". Personally I think the yellow is harsh, but if it's a rule, then the rule must be observed. If it's not a rule, it won't be.

      The broadcaster appears to be wrong. It is a rule.

      FIFA have chosen to be lenient on this part of the rules whilst upholding the other part literally.

      As I say, it confirms that the rule is wrong. It is impractical and can cause more problems than it is worth.

      Premier League are also abandoning it before the league even starts. It is a farce. It just shows how they can use VAR as and when they want.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #414: Jun 23, 2019 04:10:33 pm
      It’s a good job there wasn’t so much fuss over the rule back in 05 then or Dudek would have been sent off after the first 2 penalties.

      There will be a bit of fuss over the rule but come mid season, the refs will soon be turning a blind eye. It was meant to be enforced once before but never happened except for the odd ref from time to time. Just like players encroaching the box as it’s taken, every now and again they will make it be retaken.

      If they want to do anything about penalties then stop Pogba doing that pathetic run up.

      Ultimately, if a player can’t score from 12 yards, regardless of the keeper coming off his line or not, then they shouldn’t be taking the kick in the first place. All they are doing is trying to make it even easier for the penalty taker. Takers who can happily piss about with their run ups, trying to sell the keeper early etc to try and gain the advantage but the keeper isn’t allowed to do anything...not exactly fair IMO. Just use common sense, let the keeper have a yard to come off his line, it’s not like he’s gaining much of an advantage is it. If a penalty is put right in the corner then it’s never getting stopped regardless of the keepers position.
      « Last Edit: Jun 23, 2019 04:19:00 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #415: Jun 24, 2019 08:39:50 am
      I expect VAR to force several changes to football rules over the next season.

      When VAR hits the Premier League for example, we will see the outrage from tight calls and literal "the rules are the rules" situations that will infuriate most fans. It is because the rules as they are written will destroy much of what is good in football.

      We saw yesterday, a Cameroon goal disallowed because the player who provided the assist was an inch or two offside (by her heel) prior to receiving the ball. The movement, the assist, the goal was all great - but the tightest of calls took all that away. That is not what the offside rules are for - but the rules currently out rule it.

      We've also seen from the WWC that the penalty rule is a nightmare and could cause some bigger problems such as red card's for unfortunate keepers, and could be abused in that way by the penalty taker. Premier League have already commented on this problem.

      One thing that needs to happen to VAR immediately (and should be done before it is implemented) is the public broadcast of the conversations between officials. With such dubious VAR calls leading to controversy, we need to know what is being said, so we can see why certain calls are being given. That may have cut some of those protests and bad feeling by the Cameroonian players.

      JD
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #416: Jun 24, 2019 09:32:26 am
      The rule has always been there, it's just not rigorously enforced.

      It's definitely a new tightening of the rules.  It was agreed by PGMOL and FIFA to be included in world football from this June.
      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #417: Jun 24, 2019 12:36:20 pm
      It's definitely a new tightening of the rules.  It was agreed by PGMOL and FIFA to be included in world football from this June.

      Yep, the old "we'll enforce this really tightly for a while to get the point across, then quietly drop it"
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #418: Jul 01, 2019 03:58:02 pm
      Quote from waltonl4
      This is the problem now they are trying to make the game error free which is going to kill the game. Just give the Refs better training maybe 4 lines people with some Gizmo to indicate offside etc but leave any interpretation to the REF

      The game is supposed to be error free after all, or as few errors as possible.

      Offsides have nothing to do with interpretation, it either is offside or it isn't, according to the laws as they stand at the time.

      Quote from DanMann
      Premier League are also abandoning it before the league even starts.

      I'm not sure we've heard the last of this issue because, according to Collina in his press conference video below, that is news to him. As far as he is concerned, all competitions that use VAR must enforce all VAR laws, not cherry pick the ones they want and ignore the rest. It's not Brexit after all.

      Quote from 7-King Kenny-7
      There will be a bit of fuss over the rule but come mid season, the refs will soon be turning a blind eye. It was meant to be enforced once before but never happened except for the odd ref from time to time. Just like players encroaching the box as it’s taken, every now and again they will make it be retaken.

      Just use common sense, let the keeper have a yard to come off his line

      Collina also addresses what happens when "common sense" is applied.

      Keepers cannot have a yard, anymore than defenders cannot have a yard for a free kick, or forwards cannot have a yard for offsides. We have rules to abide by. Without rules, we have anarchy.

      In previous years, refs could turn a blind eye, under the "I didn't see it" explanation. With VAR, that explanation is now useless. If something should be spotted, it will be spotted and something will be done about it.

      Quote from DanMann
      I expect VAR to force several changes to football rules over the next season.

      We saw yesterday, a Cameroon goal disallowed because the player who provided the assist was an inch or two offside (by her heel) prior to receiving the ball. The movement, the assist, the goal was all great - but the tightest of calls took all that away. That is not what the offside rules are for - but the rules currently out rule it.

      That decision is correct. Cameroon can scream "racism" all they want, but there's no racism involved. The VAR system doesn't recognise where teams come from or what their skin colour is. It simply provides the evidence to confirm a decision or correct an error.

      The link to the press conference video on YouTube below, sees Collina and several other officials confirm and clarify refereeing decisions at the WWC, and VAR related issues.

      https://youtu.be/yuhIVx8RoiI

      Main points are:
      Accuracy of ref decisions with VAR is 98%+.
      Average of 10 VAR checks per WWC game.
      A VAR on field review called, every 1.52 games, a rate consistent with other major tournaments.
      More penalties awarded during this WWC than any in history.

      Analysis of previous incidents: Around 35-40 minutes into the video.
      Collina EPL comments: 79 minutes in.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #419: Jul 06, 2019 04:40:06 pm
      I have to say, some of these decisions are ridiculous.

      Totally ruining the flow of the game.

      God help next year, there will defiantly be wrong calls.
      Boston not la
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #420: Jul 06, 2019 04:51:40 pm
      Yep it's like those jobsworthy cu*ts,telling ya to move ya car over a foot or giving out tickets for feeding a f**king bird.if none of the players,coaches see it in real time let the game go,maybe let them have challenges.There's gonna be issues in the prem over this for sure.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #421: Jul 06, 2019 05:01:21 pm
      Yep it's like those jobsworthy cu*ts,telling ya to move ya car over a foot or giving out tickets for feeding a f**king bird.if none of the players,coaches see it in real time let the game go,maybe let them have challenges.There's gonna be issues in the prem over this for sure.

      None of the dives have been punished. I can see it causing a lot issues.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #422: Jul 10, 2019 08:15:26 pm
      Quote from Boston not la
      Yep it's like those jobsworthy cu*ts,telling ya to move ya car over a foot or giving out tickets for feeding a f**king bird.if none of the players,coaches see it in real time let the game go,maybe let them have challenges.

      No is the short answer.

      The long answer is, players and coaches are not allowed to referee the game as and when it suits them. VAR is here to allow neutral referees to coldly spot things, that biased players and coaches want us to turn a blind eye to.
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #423: Jul 11, 2019 09:54:04 am
      Goal line technology is great and to get offside decisions correct should be easy now . the rest is going to cause mayhem in the league and if crowds start to wait to celebrate each goal until VAR has given its decision its going to kill atmospheres.
      The view used for VAR should only be that of the referee otherwise what is the point of having a Ref we may as well go for virtual Ref's
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #424: Jul 17, 2019 10:43:14 pm
      How many City fans waited to celebrate the ghost goal v Spurs? Crowds will celebrate as they always have. Whether the immediate decision given will stand or not, is a different story.

      Watching the cricket final at the weekend, was not a great advert for the team challenge theory. At least 2 major decisions were called wrong, and could not be corrected because the team concerned were out of challenges, and clear and obvious wrong decisions had to be allowed to stand. To be restricted to 1 challenge over 300 balls as they are, makes me relieved that the officials in our sport, still have the absolute authority to make final decisions on any incident in the game.

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