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      VAR

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      verde-rubro
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #625: Nov 09, 2019 04:46:19 pm
      Yet another shocker of a call this time in the Spurs - Sheffield match where they spent 4 minutes drawing lines til they could get someone's toe offside...

      plus it was 1 or 2 fazes of play before the goal
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #626: Nov 09, 2019 08:57:10 pm
      Quote from FATKOPITE10
      First. course of action should be to sack mike riley and to implement the pitch side screen. What mandate does he have to say what should or shouldn't be used

      He is the head of referees in the league.

      The idea of ignoring the screens sounded  good at the start of the season, given the criticism it received for how often it was used during the summer tournaments. Now it's an issue. They should use the screen but when they start doing it, all the old "slow the game down" moaning will be back.  Riley's focus seems to be about not slowing the game down. VAR is not an egg timer, it is an essential tool to help referees make the right call. In this league, there is too much at stake for major decisions to be left to guesswork.

      One of the biggest games this season is at our house this weekend. We haven't been too badly affected by VAR so far relative to other clubs, but there will be the standard 8-10 checks. They all have to be correct, and the referee should use every available resource to get a call right, so that he is not subjected to the full Buffon treatment from players over a major decision he makes. The monitor is like an extra linesman, it's there to help him and make his life easier, not undermine his authority, so he should use it.

      The ref who missed the handball at the Newcastle-Watford game appears to have vanished off the radar since. The amount of available refs for VAR needs to be expanded, as it's always the same names every week in the headlines. One ref was a VAR for two games last week on the same day. You wouldn't ask players to play twice per day, so you shouldn't expect refs to either. It's a high pressure job with heavy responsibility. We have a USA based referee from Ireland doing the VAR at the WCC. He is recognized as the best ref in MLS, but surely there must be other FIFA qualified refs out there to do the job with him.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #627: Nov 10, 2019 01:04:52 am
      So they will rule out goals that are 1mm offside and deem it as offside is offside. But won’t give penalties if it’s not “clear and obvious error”. So much hypocrisy and double standards with the officials over VAR.
      they may as well just rename it to ‘Offside technology” because it’s pretty much the only thing they are intent on using it with, even that they are getting wrong though.

      VAR debut season will go down as nothing other than a complete embarrassment.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #628: Nov 10, 2019 01:47:54 am
      So they will rule out goals that are 1mm offside and deem it as offside is offside. But won’t give penalties if it’s not “clear and obvious error”. So much hypocrisy and double standards with the officials over VAR.
      they may as well just rename it to ‘Offside technology” because it’s pretty much the only thing they are intent on using it with, even that they are getting wrong though.

      VAR debut season will go down as nothing other than a complete embarrassment.

      I think you mean complete disaster it’s totaly inept .
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #629: Nov 10, 2019 02:05:26 pm
      Mike Riley finally sees sense and apparently is about to tell the referees to start using the monitors.

      Think that may help a little bit, but you just know the ref will be under huge pressure from fans and players.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #630: Nov 11, 2019 04:18:28 pm
      No complaints on VAR this week lads with the Liverpool v City game.  :f_whistle:
      therealjr
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #631: Nov 11, 2019 05:58:09 pm
      No complaints on VAR this week lads with the Liverpool v City game.  :f_whistle:

      Every complaint actually. Gives the biased media and Gobbiola the chance to detract from our performance in burying our biggest rivals.

      JD
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #632: Nov 12, 2019 10:30:38 am
      On the whole, VAR has improved the accuracy of decisions.  Something like 80% correct decisions without VAR last year and now above 90%.

      Yes there is still the odd issue - with regards to offside I think they've gone a bit overboard with all this measuring armpit bollocks.  Whatever happened to the advantage being with the striker.  Certainly stop the blatant offside errors but Firmino's goal and Sheffield United's goal last weekend should have stood IMO.

      The biggest issue seems to be with the new handball rule and how it's being interpreted.

      Unsurprisingly I don't think the Trent thing was handball.

      Under the laws of the game if Aguero had smashed the ball in it would have been ruled out because the attacker used his hand.  Accidentally or not that wouldn't have been allowed.  That also ruled out the possibility of them getting a penalty seconds later.  They would have gained an advantage following a handball inside the area.

      As it was, VAR deemed Trent's handball to be accidental because it came off a deflection off someone's hand. 

      That's the only decision that you can decide on.   For me it was an accidental handball by Trent, I'm sure for City and United and Everton fans it was deliberate.

      VAR said it wasn't deliberate so play continued.

      VAR is not perfect at all, but it's much better than leaving games to the whims of the officials on the pitch.  Sky and BBC used to pad out their football programs highlighting the referees 'mistakes' and now in their absence they have to fill airtime with rants over VAR.

      Overall, the league table 'lies' less now than it used to.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #633: Nov 12, 2019 11:17:28 am
      I read somewhere Klopp saying the only things that appear to be working well under VAR was Handballs & Offsides something which I basically agreed on. Now I'm not so sure. One minute they say accidental or not its handball.

      This leaves me confused once again. Looking at the game with Liverpool & City before you lads scored the ball hit Silva's hand when falling, this in turn left to Arnold hand balling too. Shouldn't it of been a free kick or goal kick in the first place for Silva's accidental handball?

      Arnold's handball wasn't accidental it was deliberate but once again it comes down to opinions. I'm still for VAR ( I think ) but f**k me its spoiling the game we love.

      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #634: Nov 12, 2019 11:49:46 am
      TAA had a quarter of a second to react from the deflection. His arm movements are consistent with his body movement. If any of the penalty shouts had a claim, it was the Mane shove, but that was softer than the one when Mane got booked after being shoved and having his foot stood on.
      FL Red
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #635: Nov 12, 2019 01:05:17 pm
      The thing about VAR is that it’s not there to make the right call, the stated purpose is to determine if the ref CLEARLY made an error. So in an instance like the Trent handball, the video really can’t show that the ref made a clear error unless you can determine intent. The problem with VAR is that it’s basically a way for refs to validate their peer’s mistakes, it’s not meant to replace the referees judgement. I still think it might be better used if you gave each manager one challenge per game where they could have an independent review (not done by the ref on the field or some backup refs covering for them) performed for a call they think is questionable. If it works well and doesn’t slow the game down then maybe you give them one per half. And obviously offsides and scores should get a quick look see as well.

      I think it would be better to put it in the managers hand to decide when they want the review to take place. You wouldn’t have as many shouts and stoppages that way.
      AussieRed
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #636: Nov 12, 2019 11:50:15 pm
      I read somewhere Klopp saying the only things that appear to be working well under VAR was Handballs & Offsides something which I basically agreed on. Now I'm not so sure. One minute they say accidental or not its handball.

      This leaves me confused once again. Looking at the game with Liverpool & City before you lads scored the ball hit Silva's hand when falling, this in turn left to Arnold hand balling too. Shouldn't it of been a free kick or goal kick in the first place for Silva's accidental handball?

      Arnold's handball wasn't accidental it was deliberate but once again it comes down to opinions. I'm still for VAR ( I think ) but f**k me its spoiling the game we love.



      This is taken directly form the the Premier Leagues Website on What's new in 2019/2020 regarding Handball Rules.


      https://www.premierleague.com/news/1263332


      Deflections

      Premier League players will be allowed extra leeway when it comes to ricocheted handballs. 

      It is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball if it has deflected off the body of an opponent, team-mate, or even another part of the own player.

      So a handball will not be awarded if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/nearby.



      Pretty f**king clear why they didn't give it a penalty. Can't understand all the f**king fuss. Get on with it ya Cu*ts and stop ya whinging!!!
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #637: Nov 13, 2019 09:50:40 am
      This is taken directly form the the Premier Leagues Website on What's new in 2019/2020 regarding Handball Rules.


      https://www.premierleague.com/news/1263332


      Deflections

      Premier League players will be allowed extra leeway when it comes to ricocheted handballs. 

      It is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball if it has deflected off the body of an opponent, team-mate, or even another part of the own player.

      So a handball will not be awarded if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/nearby.





      F**k me Red you've printed something that makes sense  :lmao: Is this a change to the original  rule  as i know they have tweaked a few rulings..
      David Wright
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #638: Nov 13, 2019 10:00:00 am
      Think the VAR system spoils the game for many fans, whilst deliberate hand ball, opposed to ball to hands are two different things as we all know. Surely it is time simple common sense prevailed on this issue.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #639: Nov 13, 2019 08:52:58 pm
      Quote from JD
      On the whole, VAR has improved the accuracy of decisions.  Something like 80% correct decisions without VAR last year and now above 90%.

      Yes there is still the odd issue - with regards to offside I think they've gone a bit overboard with all this measuring armpit bollocks.  Whatever happened to the advantage being with the striker.  Certainly stop the blatant offside errors but Firmino's goal and Sheffield United's goal last weekend should have stood IMO.

      The biggest issue seems to be with the new handball rule and how it's being interpreted.

      Unsurprisingly I don't think the Trent thing was handball.

      Under the laws of the game if Aguero had smashed the ball in it would have been ruled out because the attacker used his hand.  Accidentally or not that wouldn't have been allowed.  That also ruled out the possibility of them getting a penalty seconds later.  They would have gained an advantage following a handball inside the area.

      As it was, VAR deemed Trent's handball to be accidental because it came off a deflection off someone's hand. 

      That's the only decision that you can decide on.   For me it was an accidental handball by Trent, I'm sure for City and United and Everton fans it was deliberate.

      VAR said it wasn't deliberate so play continued.

      VAR is not perfect at all, but it's much better than leaving games to the whims of the officials on the pitch.  Sky and BBC used to pad out their football programs highlighting the referees 'mistakes' and now in their absence they have to fill airtime with rants over VAR.

      Overall, the league table 'lies' less now than it used to.

      I saw people say before the season started, that VAR was only going to benefit the big clubs. We've seen throughout the season that every big club has seen decisions go against them, so that clears that up.

      When you look at the TAA incident now, it's all in slow motion. Before it strikes him, Lovren is already appealing about the Silva handball. When I saw it live, I couldn't see who handled it, but I did see Oliver instantly wave the appeals by whoever away. He saw everything at full speed and he said no. I think you could make an argument for a penalty and against it, but on balance I think the decision made, was the correct one. Play on.

      Before this season, I always thought tight offside calls were there to protect the defender, in the same way as challenges on the goalkeeper usually were free kicks. Moss was in the headlines again for the Spurs v Sheffield Utd incident, but I think for a change he got it right. The forward's foot is in front of the last defender. It may only be 1mm, but it still gives the forward an advantage, which they then took full advantage of. It took a bit of time to spot it, but it was spotted and however long it takes, that goal has to be ruled out.

      Next week is the 10th Anniversary of Henry in Paris, a goal given despite 2 handballs and 2 offsides in the same move. The restart was held up for about 5 minutes while the ref dealt with 11 Irish Buffons, and yellow cards. The whole world saw what happened by the restart except those in the stadium. It effectively ended the ref's career at the highest level. It may happen again this week, as 10 years on, there is still no system to review incidents during qualifiers, and with 50-60 qualifiers in Europe over the next week, somebody somewhere is going to be affected. But it's a timely reminder why technology is absolutely essential to weed out the cheats and the conmen at the highest level of the game.
      RedWilly
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #640: Nov 13, 2019 10:07:17 pm
      I saw people say before the season started, that VAR was only going to benefit the big clubs. We've seen throughout the season that every big club has seen decisions go against them, so that clears that up.

      When you look at the TAA incident now, it's all in slow motion. Before it strikes him, Lovren is already appealing about the Silva handball. When I saw it live, I couldn't see who handled it, but I did see Oliver instantly wave the appeals by whoever away. He saw everything at full speed and he said no. I think you could make an argument for a penalty and against it, but on balance I think the decision made, was the correct one. Play on.

      Before this season, I always thought tight offside calls were there to protect the defender, in the same way as challenges on the goalkeeper usually were free kicks. Moss was in the headlines again for the Spurs v Sheffield Utd incident, but I think for a change he got it right. The forward's foot is in front of the last defender. It may only be 1mm, but it still gives the forward an advantage, which they then took full advantage of. It took a bit of time to spot it, but it was spotted and however long it takes, that goal has to be ruled out.

      Next week is the 10th Anniversary of Henry in Paris, a goal given despite 2 handballs and 2 offsides in the same move. The restart was held up for about 5 minutes while the ref dealt with 11 Irish Buffons, and yellow cards. The whole world saw what happened by the restart except those in the stadium. It effectively ended the ref's career at the highest level. It may happen again this week, as 10 years on, there is still no system to review incidents during qualifiers, and with 50-60 qualifiers in Europe over the next week, somebody somewhere is going to be affected. But it's a timely reminder why technology is absolutely essential to weed out the cheats and the conmen at the highest level of the game.

      For fucks sake. Behave. Got an advantage by having his toe 1mm offside, are you having a laugh. 1MM!!!!!!

      As for tight offside calls being there to protect the defender that is an absolute nonsense. The rule has always been to give benefit to the attacker, that was literally written into the laws of the game at one point. So you have just made that up.

      You do this on purpose, find a topic and just beat the drum relentlessly. We get it, you f**king love VAR but can you stop making sh*t up like the above.

      Funny how you’ve gone quiet on your stupid weekly VAR quiz which turned out to be absolute horseshit after boring us all to death with it for a season.
      AussieRed
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #641: Nov 14, 2019 12:01:34 am
      F**k me Red you've printed something that makes sense  :lmao: Is this a change to the original  rule  as i know they have tweaked a few rulings..

      I know hey mate  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:  Saw it on LFCTV and had to find it...yep, they just changed it at the start of this season, according to the Official PL site.
      Dmasta
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #642: Nov 14, 2019 02:30:00 am
      TAA had a quarter of a second to react from the deflection. His arm movements are consistent with his body movement. If any of the penalty shouts had a claim, it was the Mane shove, but that was softer than the one when Mane got booked after being shoved and having his foot stood on.

      Cannot for the life of me remember where I saw or read it but as somebody said, anybody who thinks Trents arms were in an unnatural position just needs to look at Aguero standing next to him. Same arm positions.
      tezmac
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #643: Nov 14, 2019 06:47:06 pm
      In my opinion it's not VAR that's wrong it's the useless fuckers implementing it
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #644: Nov 14, 2019 10:46:38 pm
      Hahahaha just caught Kevin Davies on SSN claiming "we've got the best refs in the world"

      Heading the ball definitely does have an effect on the brain then!!
      Santiagosut
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #645: Nov 16, 2019 04:01:25 pm
      In my opinion it's not VAR that's wrong it's the useless fuckers implementing it

      I think you're definitely on to something, but I think VAR is bad on its own merit. Pair it up with useless idiots implementing it, and you have a disaster.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #646: Nov 19, 2019 11:51:51 pm
      Quote from RedWilly
      Got an advantage by having his toe 1mm offside, 1MM!!!!!! 

      Funny how you’ve gone quiet on your  weekly VAR quiz after a season.

      As VAR is in our league, the quiz is not required. That was clear and obvious 6 months ago. If we had VAR last season as in every other major league, there would have been no quiz at all.

      Offside is a factual decision, there is zero leeway. 1mm is offside, it always was offside. Now we have the technology to spot exactly how many mms it is, forwards can't benefit when they are in an offside position anymore.

      Quote from JD
      On the whole, VAR has improved the accuracy of decisions.  Something like 80% correct decisions without VAR last year and now above 90%.

      Yes there is still the odd issue - with regards to offside I think they've gone a bit overboard with all this measuring armpit bollocks.  Whatever happened to the advantage being with the striker.  Certainly stop the blatant offside errors but Firmino's goal and Sheffield United's goal last weekend should have stood IMO.

      Overall, the league table 'lies' less now than it used to.

      I saw a league table "without VAR" at the weekend. We would be 7 points ahead without it, in comparison to the 8 we are ahead with it. It may not mean a lot in November, but 1 point was the difference last May, as we know.

      I also saw some other hack argue that VAR-less leagues get on fine, with the occasional injustice. But that's the problem. The "occasional injustice" means it's not fine. Results decide who wins games, titles and trophies, so the result has to be correct. Millimetres matter come the end of the season when the prizes are handed out, as the winners are doing their laps of honour, and the rest have to try again the following year.

      Riley has decided that the VAR monitor should continue to be an ornament in the tunnel area. Watching a monitor does not affect the integrity of the competition, it's there to make a refs job easier. The accuracy of the decision should be their only consideration, especially with so much at stake as there is nowadays.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #647: Nov 20, 2019 12:17:43 pm
      Still not fit for purpose and we'll see more rule changes in the game to iron out the obvious flaws.

      It's here to stay, not necessarily for the best.Taking the timekeeping out the referees hands and allowing temporary substitutes for suspected concussion and other injuries would improve the game far more than this tawdry technology.

      But then again, I never really cared about refereeing mistakes, they're human, they're allowed to make them. As for those of you who don't think refereeing mistakes are a (beautiful) part of our game, I just don't understand you and I'm not sure I'm willing to try.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #648: Nov 22, 2019 08:57:17 pm
      As shown in the Firmino incident against Villa, you do care about refereeing mistakes when it involves us. Your reaction was to challenge me to "justify the unjustifiable". My response was not having VAR, would not have made any difference to the original offside decision.

      There's nothing "beautiful" about refereeing mistakes, any more than there is about the Gerrard slip, or Karius butterfingers episodes in goal. You'll never eliminate mistakes, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do everything to limit them to as few as possible, because mistakes cost money and trophies. I know you don't care about the lost revenue, but others do.

      You've said repeatedly that you want timekeeping taken out of the refs hands. You haven't put forward an alternative, nor who should do it instead, nor even how it could/should be done. I don't know what your issue with it is, but no matter what method is used, games still have to be played over 90 minutes.

      There was a time not very long ago, when there was one substitution allowed per game. Now there are 3 to cover all injuries, and another sub allowed for games that go to extra time. It is usually enough to cover all situations.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #649: Nov 22, 2019 09:33:39 pm
      As shown in the Firmino incident against Villa, you do care about refereeing mistakes when it involves us. Your reaction was to challenge me to "justify the unjustifiable". My response was not having VAR, would not have made any difference to the original offside decision.

      There's nothing "beautiful" about refereeing mistakes, any more than there is about the Gerrard slip, or Karius butterfingers episodes in goal. You'll never eliminate mistakes, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do everything to limit them to as few as possible, because mistakes cost money and trophies. I know you don't care about the lost revenue, but others do.

      You've said repeatedly that you want timekeeping taken out of the refs hands. You haven't put forward an alternative, nor who should do it instead, nor even how it could/should be done. I don't know what your issue with it is, but no matter what method is used, games still have to be played over 90 minutes.

      There was a time not very long ago, when there was one substitution allowed per game. Now there are 3 to cover all injuries, and another sub allowed for games that go to extra time. It is usually enough to cover all situations.

      As per usual you misconstrue and disseminate. I'd have no problem with the goal being denied by the linesman, I asked you to justify VAR f**king it up, which you still haven't.

      Timekeeping, I have mentioned why in the past, we aren't getting 90 minutes of football. We've had games with less than fifty,  the last live match I was at had 53 minutes in which the ball was in play. As for who, an independent timekeeper, but i thought that was self explanatory, it is a job the referee doesn't need to do.

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