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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. Fans vote for or against VAR

      VAR

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      TameImpala
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #690: Dec 20, 2019 01:54:42 pm
      Brother said something similar after Salah's 2nd goal against Watford, all the joy is being taken out of fans celebrating goals.

      It's sh*te, we were at the opposite end of the ground so it was anybody's guess as to whether he was onside or off. Could definitely feel that in the celebrations

      Another thing is - there were 4 minutes added on at the end. I think if you add up the time it took for both second half goals to be checked, it probably would have been around 4 minutes in total. Realistically with VAR checks on top of normal stoppages & substitutions we should be seeing 7,8 or 9 minutes stoppage time. So not only is it taking joy away from fans, it's also eating into actual game time
      AussieRed
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #691: Dec 20, 2019 10:39:10 pm
      It was to do with Mo being in front of the goalkeeper meaning 2 outfield players need to play him onside.

      Heard people say it was because the bloke was off the pitch so he didnt count as active, but that's not the reason. He counted as 1 of the 2 players. Being behind the goal line doesnt make you inactive.

      Thanks mate, never knew that. Cheers!
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #692: Dec 24, 2019 12:57:42 pm
      Quote from billythered
      For the life of me cannot understand why the onfield ref is not allowed to view contentious issue's on that pitch side monitor, 

      More often than not though the onfield ref will come to  the right conclusion after viewing that monitor....

      ....Or is that just too simple?

      YNWA

      Officially they can use them, they're just advised not to, as Riley is petrified the game might slow down a bit.

      It took Anthony Taylor 20 seconds to go to a screen, see what he needed to see, and overturn a decision in the European Cup a couple of weeks ago. 20 seconds in a 2 hour long game is nothing.

      Quote from TameImpala
      It's sh*te, we were at the opposite end of the ground so it was anybody's guess as to whether he was onside or off. Could definitely feel that in the celebrations

      Another thing is - there were 4 minutes added on at the end. I think if you add up the time it took for both second half goals to be checked, it probably would have been around 4 minutes in total. Realistically with VAR checks on top of normal stoppages & substitutions we should be seeing 7,8 or 9 minutes stoppage time. So not only is it taking joy away from fans, it's also eating into actual game time as

      The ref played over 5 minutes injury time. 3 minutes for the subs, and 1 minute each for the reviews. So the time "lost" was given back at the end. Even without VAR, 4-5 minutes is the standard amount nowadays. They're like mini extra times.

      Quote
      People still attend, I can't imagine it will push people to actively boycott the sport but it's certainly making the experience a lot worse. Me & my mate were sat in the upper Main Stand towards the Anfield Rd end on Saturday so there was no chance of us being able to see whether Salah was onside or not for his second goal. Safe to say the celebrations came with overtones of anxiety when it hit the net as we were both aware that we'd probably have to spend another minute or two waiting for confirmation. When we met up with the rest of our group in the pub after the game they all felt pretty much the same way.

      I know what you're saying about fair play but I'm a believer that things even themselves out over time anyway. Other sports might use technology but football isn't any other sport. It's not rugby, tennis or cricket. It's the biggest sport in the world by a country mile and it's achieved that title without massive technological interference. I think that if it ain't broke, you shouldn't try fixing it

      I think if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Except in this case, it was broke, and something had to be done to put it right.

      I get all the tales of emotion by you and other posters, I experience it also, but it has to be that way from now on. VAR is not about emotion, it's about major decisions that make a difference in 90 minutes, and over 9 months, and they must be correct. Once the correct decision is made, ultimately it is the only thing that counts.

      For anyone who refuses to show up because they can't take the correct decision as it should be, there are 10 people like me who would accept the ticket and welcome fair play enforced on a football pitch. Then I will walk out afterwards, knowing that everything was as it should be, not have people coming up saying to me "you shouldn't have won/lost then because...".

      When Salah was brought down in Kiev, the challenge was not punished. All it did was breed bitterness and resentment. As the teams don't meet every year, when is that decision ever going to be "evened out"? The result in Kiev is set in stone.
      TameImpala
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #693: Dec 26, 2019 07:00:10 pm

      I think if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Except in this case, it was broke, and something had to be done to put it right.

      I get all the tales of emotion by you and other posters, I experience it also, but it has to be that way from now on. VAR is not about emotion, it's about major decisions that make a difference in 90 minutes, and over 9 months, and they must be correct. Once the correct decision is made, ultimately it is the only thing that counts.

      For anyone who refuses to show up because they can't take the correct decision as it should be, there are 10 people like me who would accept the ticket and welcome fair play enforced on a football pitch. Then I will walk out afterwards, knowing that everything was as it should be, not have people coming up saying to me "you shouldn't have won/lost then because...".

      When Salah was brought down in Kiev, the challenge was not punished. All it did was breed bitterness and resentment. As the teams don't meet every year, when is that decision ever going to be "evened out"? The result in Kiev is set in stone.

      I Wouldn't say it was broke at all. Incorrect decisions were made but that's part and parcel of football and has been since day one. Football was more popular than ever at the time VAR was brought in

      As I said, I can't see people boycotting and if they did, it wouldn't be because they "can't accept the correct decision" it would be down to the fact that it's making going the match less enjoyable - and even watching on TV less enjoyable. This is not just my opinion but the opinion of more or less everybody else I've spoken to about it.

      And on the Salah / Kiev point - what would have happened if VAR was in action? It certainly wasn't a straight red challenge. Obviously we knew what Ramos was doing but people get pulled down in more or less every game. I think at best the referee would have given a yellow card. Hardly justice for injuring our star player. With VAR Gerrard probably wouldn't have won that penalty in Istanbul & I'm sure Dudek wouldn't have been allowed to come as far off his line as he did in the shootout if the spot kicks were being reviewed. Sometimes you get the rub of the green with decisions and sometimes you don't.

      VAR is making the experience of celebrating a goal - the essence of football, worse. It's now being hindered by nerds pissing about with lines to check if somebody's armpit is a centimetre offside
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #694: Dec 26, 2019 11:11:01 pm
      Football isn't a balance sheet it doesn't always add up and trying to make it perfect is destroying it for the fans. In our game on WEDS the VAR decisions were just weird. We need better Ref's and assistants maybe two assistants on each side but just scrap this rubbish before it damages the game even more
      RedWilly
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #695: Dec 27, 2019 08:18:13 pm
      The worst VAR decision of the season in then City game.

      What an absolute farce his system is, would love to get hold of Mike Riley and have him try explain the bollocks!!
      LondonRed83
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #696: Dec 27, 2019 08:29:47 pm
      Mahrez literally jumps in the air 2 seconds after being touched on the shoulder then they have to retake a pen, absolute F***ing joke!!
      RedWilly
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #697: Dec 27, 2019 08:33:58 pm
      Mahrez literally jumps in the air 2 seconds after being touched on the shoulder then they have to retake a pen, absolute f**king joke!!

      That retake. F**k me. City and Wolves players encroach but it’s by millimetres. There is zero thought process as to what the purpose of these rules are.

      Moronic
      LondonRed83
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #698: Dec 27, 2019 08:45:43 pm
      That retake. F**k me. City and Wolves players encroach but it’s by millimetres. There is zero thought process as to what the purpose of these rules are.

      Moronic

      The snake even missed twice and they’re still 0-1. Wankers
      ruthcity
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #699: Dec 27, 2019 08:50:28 pm
      The snake even missed twice and they’re still 0-1. Wankers

      Quality. It's what they call quality if you're not Liverpool. If it's Liverpool, it's called lucky.
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #700: Dec 27, 2019 08:52:36 pm
      When VAR causes a full scale riot and somebody in the crowd gets hurt will they realise just what they have done. If we micro manage every contact in the game the games will end up over 2 hours every time. F**k it off
      tezmac
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #701: Dec 27, 2019 08:55:20 pm
      Definitely think the game is better off without VAR
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #702: Dec 27, 2019 08:57:35 pm
      Definitely think the game is better off without VAR

      Imagine a dodgy decision and a penalty for UTD at Anfield in the 92nd minute given by VAR the place would explode and then people would be criticised for getting over emotional I can see it coming
      chats
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #703: Dec 28, 2019 01:48:22 pm
      No doubt a certain someone on here will trot out the 'offside is offside' line but that was another absolute sh*te call for Brighton there.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #704: Dec 28, 2019 02:41:25 pm
      Quote from chats
      No doubt a certain someone on here will trot out the 'offside is offside' line but that was another absolute sh*te call for Brighton there.

      I don't think there was too many of them complaining about it, when it happened to Spurs in their last game. Correct decision obviously.

      Quote from RedWilly
      That retake. F**k me. City and Wolves players encroach but it’s by millimetres. There is zero thought process as to what the purpose of these rules are.

      Moronic

      Law 14 of the sport, makes it clear why the decision was made. The law applies worldwide. Case closed. As regards the rest of the incident, the forward was fouled in the box. It doesn't mean I like the decision, but I can't complain when the decision is correct.

      Quote from waltonl4
      Football isn't a balance sheet it doesn't always add up and trying to make it perfect is destroying it for the fans. In our game on WEDS the VAR decisions were just weird. We need better Ref's and assistants maybe two assistants on each side

      That has already been tried. And failed. They just stood on the goalline for 90 minutes scratching themselves.

      It is supposed to add up. Results pay the bills. The more results you get, the more money you make, the better players you buy, the more trophies you win etc etc.

      Quote
      Imagine a dodgy decision and a penalty for UTD at Anfield in the 92nd minute given by VAR the place would explode and then people would be criticised for getting over emotional I can see it coming

      Nobody else can. What we have seen over the years, is that wrong decisions which could not be changed, have caused riots. It was before my time but I'm sure you're able to remember West Brom v Leeds in 71. The most crowds can do about VAR, is howl at the moon. It has not and will not make any difference.

      Quote from TameImpala
      I Wouldn't say it was broke at all. Incorrect decisions were made but that's part and parcel of football and has been since day one. Football was more popular than ever at the time VAR was brought in

      As I said, I can't see people boycotting and if they did, it wouldn't be because they "can't accept the correct decision" it would be down to the fact that it's making going the match less enjoyable - and even watching on TV less enjoyable. This is not just my opinion but the opinion of more or less everybody else I've spoken to about it.

      And on the Salah / Kiev point - what would have happened if VAR was in action? It certainly wasn't a straight red challenge. Obviously we knew what Ramos was doing but people get pulled down in more or less every game. I think at best the referee would have given a yellow card. Hardly justice for injuring our star player. With VAR Gerrard probably wouldn't have won that penalty in Istanbul & I'm sure Dudek wouldn't have been allowed to come as far off his line as he did in the shootout if the spot kicks were being reviewed. Sometimes you get the rub of the green with decisions and sometimes you don't.

      VAR is making the experience of celebrating a goal - the essence of football, worse. It's now being hindered by nerds pissing about with lines to check if somebody's armpit is a centimetre offside

      As I said recently, the best part of football is celebrating the result you want at the end of the game. Regarding the "joy" of goal celebrations, take the European tie against Roma. They scored 6 goals against us, but they couldn't celebrate any of them "properly", not a single one. And there was no VAR then.

      Nerds are not messing about with lines. Qualified FIFA officials are doing a very technical and important job, to ensure that no club, big or small, is the victim of a wrong offside call anymore. If you can score a goal with your shoulder, then the shoulder has to be checked. If a forward looks 1mm ahead of the last defender, it must be reviewed. If a penalty call was actually a foul outside the box or vice versa, the decision must be changed. If you handle the ball and score from it, the effort must be disallowed. That's not the rub of the green, that is fair play in action. It's no consolation to say that it is "part and parcel of the game" when it's your team on the receiving end of an error, that may be the difference between achieving what you want all year or not. There were approx 120 major refereeing errors last season. There were 4 on the last day alone. In this day and age, with the resources we have available, that is just not acceptable and it won't be allowed to happen again. The Son incident last weekend would have been recorded as an error in the logbook last season. This season, it's a straight red card and a three game ban. Justice done on the spot.

      You said you were a believer in things even themselves out over time. So I asked a fairly simple question. When would the Salah incident ever be evened out? It is your belief after all that it would happen. Personally the least I would expect the ref to be made aware of what happened, advised to look at the evidence for himself and leave the rest to him. Instead we had no VAR and nothing was done, not even a free kick iirc. You've seen the reaction to it ever since. As for talk of "revenge", nobody in the draw should want to play Real Madrid, and I certainly don't. I always want the easiest possible draw, and as many sides have found out down the years, Real Madrid in the European Cup is never an easy draw for anyone.

      VAR helped kick City out of Europe last season, as without it the ghost goal in their quarter final would have counted, and I'm sure we would have condemned the officials (and UEFA) for allowing it to stand. But the laws of the game were enforced as they should be, and so we were spared the prospect of facing them in the final.

      VAR is not killing the game, it is changing how we watch it to an extent, but for the better. Diving in the penalty area and being rewarded for it, which was once the cancer of the sport, is now as rare as finding a needle in a rainforest. We are getting better decisions, and fairer results according to the laws of the game, not leaving major decisions to chance and getting them wrong. They don't accept it in other sports, and we shouldn't have to in ours either.
      RedWilly
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #705: Dec 28, 2019 03:06:13 pm
      I don't think there was too many of them complaining about it, when it happened to Spurs in their last game. Correct decision obviously.

      Law 14 of the sport, makes it clear why the decision was made. The law applies worldwide. Case closed. As regards the rest of the incident, the forward was fouled in the box. It doesn't mean I like the decision, but I can't complain when the decision is correct.

      That has already been tried. And failed. They just stood on the goalline for 90 minutes scratching themselves.

      It is supposed to add up. Results pay the bills. The more results you get, the more money you make, the better players you buy, the more trophies you win etc etc.

      Nobody else can. What we have seen over the years, is that wrong decisions which could not be changed, have caused riots. It was before my time but I'm sure you're able to remember West Brom v Leeds in 71. The most crowds can do about VAR, is howl at the moon. It has not and will not make any difference.

      As I said recently, the best part of football is celebrating the result you want at the end of the game. Regarding the "joy" of goal celebrations, take the European tie against Roma. They scored 6 goals against us, but they couldn't celebrate any of them "properly", not a single one. And there was no VAR then.

      Nerds are not messing about with lines. Qualified FIFA officials are doing a very technical and important job, to ensure that no club, big or small, is the victim of a wrong offside call anymore. If you can score a goal with your shoulder, then the shoulder has to be checked. If a forward looks 1mm ahead of the last defender, it must be reviewed. If a penalty call was actually a foul outside the box or vice versa, the decision must be changed. If you handle the ball and score from it, the effort must be disallowed. That's not the rub of the green, that is fair play in action. It's no consolation to say that it is "part and parcel of the game" when it's your team on the receiving end of an error, that may be the difference between achieving what you want all year or not. There were approx 120 major refereeing errors last season. There were 4 on the last day alone. In this day and age, with the resources we have available, that is just not acceptable and it won't be allowed to happen again. The Son incident last weekend would have been recorded as an error in the logbook last season. This season, it's a straight red card and a three game ban. Justice done on the spot.

      You said you were a believer in things even themselves out over time. So I asked a fairly simple question. When would the Salah incident ever be evened out? It is your belief after all that it would happen. Personally the least I would expect the ref to be made aware of what happened, advised to look at the evidence for himself and leave the rest to him. Instead we had no VAR and nothing was done, not even a free kick iirc. You've seen the reaction to it ever since. As for talk of "revenge", nobody in the draw should want to play Real Madrid, and I certainly don't. I always want the easiest possible draw, and as many sides have found out down the years, Real Madrid in the European Cup is never an easy draw for anyone.

      VAR helped kick City out of Europe last season, as without it the ghost goal in their quarter final would have counted, and I'm sure we would have condemned the officials (and UEFA) for allowing it to stand. But the laws of the game were enforced as they should be, and so we were spared the prospect of facing them in the final.

      VAR is not killing the game, it is changing how we watch it to an extent, but for the better. Diving in the penalty area and being rewarded for it, which was once the cancer of the sport, is now as rare as finding a needle in a rainforest. We are getting better decisions, and fairer results according to the laws of the game, not leaving major decisions to chance and getting them wrong. They don't accept it in other sports, and we shouldn't have to in ours either.

      PR waffle. You are unable to critical analyze anything so you have zero credibility when it comes to anything VAR related. You’re just a broken record unable to see anything beyond “VAR is good”. If you actually wanted it to work effectively you would analyze where it is going right and wrong but you’re seemingly incapable of that.

      If VAR was being used to ensure the letter of the law was followed in every aspect perhaps you’d have a point. But it’s not. This week they have picked on encroachment, despite it happening in every pen every weekend and not having been picked out previously.

      Next week it will be some other nonsense that no one really cares about, the player stealing a few extra yards at a throw in or something.

      Instead, if they wanted VAR to be used in a way that people actually supported they would check the likes of Perez’s stamp on Hendo during the Leicester game or the million other in play incidents that are never pulled up.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #706: Dec 28, 2019 03:24:04 pm
      I don't think there was too many of them complaining about it, when it happened to Spurs in their last game. Correct decision obviously.

      Law 14 of the sport, makes it clear why the decision was made. The law applies worldwide. Case closed. As regards the rest of the incident, the forward was fouled in the box. It doesn't mean I like the decision, but I can't complain when the decision is correct.

      That has already been tried. And failed. They just stood on the goalline for 90 minutes scratching themselves.

      It is supposed to add up. Results pay the bills. The more results you get, the more money you make, the better players you buy, the more trophies you win etc etc.

      Nobody else can. What we have seen over the years, is that wrong decisions which could not be changed, have caused riots. It was before my time but I'm sure you're able to remember West Brom v Leeds in 71. The most crowds can do about VAR, is howl at the moon. It has not and will not make any difference.

      As I said recently, the best part of football is celebrating the result you want at the end of the game. Regarding the "joy" of goal celebrations, take the European tie against Roma. They scored 6 goals against us, but they couldn't celebrate any of them "properly", not a single one. And there was no VAR then.

      Nerds are not messing about with lines. Qualified FIFA officials are doing a very technical and important job, to ensure that no club, big or small, is the victim of a wrong offside call anymore. If you can score a goal with your shoulder, then the shoulder has to be checked. If a forward looks 1mm ahead of the last defender, it must be reviewed. If a penalty call was actually a foul outside the box or vice versa, the decision must be changed. If you handle the ball and score from it, the effort must be disallowed. That's not the rub of the green, that is fair play in action. It's no consolation to say that it is "part and parcel of the game" when it's your team on the receiving end of an error, that may be the difference between achieving what you want all year or not. There were approx 120 major refereeing errors last season. There were 4 on the last day alone. In this day and age, with the resources we have available, that is just not acceptable and it won't be allowed to happen again. The Son incident last weekend would have been recorded as an error in the logbook last season. This season, it's a straight red card and a three game ban. Justice done on the spot.

      You said you were a believer in things even themselves out over time. So I asked a fairly simple question. When would the Salah incident ever be evened out? It is your belief after all that it would happen. Personally the least I would expect the ref to be made aware of what happened, advised to look at the evidence for himself and leave the rest to him. Instead we had no VAR and nothing was done, not even a free kick iirc. You've seen the reaction to it ever since. As for talk of "revenge", nobody in the draw should want to play Real Madrid, and I certainly don't. I always want the easiest possible draw, and as many sides have found out down the years, Real Madrid in the European Cup is never an easy draw for anyone.

      VAR helped kick City out of Europe last season, as without it the ghost goal in their quarter final would have counted, and I'm sure we would have condemned the officials (and UEFA) for allowing it to stand. But the laws of the game were enforced as they should be, and so we were spared the prospect of facing them in the final.

      VAR is not killing the game, it is changing how we watch it to an extent, but for the better. Diving in the penalty area and being rewarded for it, which was once the cancer of the sport, is now as rare as finding a needle in a rainforest. We are getting better decisions, and fairer results according to the laws of the game, not leaving major decisions to chance and getting them wrong. They don't accept it in other sports, and we shouldn't have to in ours either.

      Utter fckin bullshit to say it’s not interfering with the sport it’s fckin destroying goal celebrations, it’s muting the atmosphere we all go for , players scoring and standing like mutes yep it’s really enhancing the game
      TameImpala
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #707: Dec 28, 2019 05:10:20 pm

      You said you were a believer in things even themselves out over time. So I asked a fairly simple question. When would the Salah incident ever be evened out? It is your belief after all that it would happen. Personally the least I would expect the ref to be made aware of what happened, advised to look at the evidence for himself and leave the rest to him. Instead we had no VAR and nothing was done, not even a free kick iirc. You've seen the reaction to it ever since. As for talk of "revenge", nobody in the draw should want to play Real Madrid, and I certainly don't. I always want the easiest possible draw, and as many sides have found out down the years, Real Madrid in the European Cup is never an easy draw for anyone.

      Mate it's an absolutely ridiculous point because as I said - VAR wouldn't have evened it out either. The very best we would have gotten for that is a Ramos yellow card because cynical tussles like that happen in most games and players dont get sent off for it. We were just highly unfortunate with the way Salah landed. Our best player would have been injured & Real Madrid would have gotten away with it because it wasn't a red card challenge - VAR or no VAR.

      It's making the game less enjoyable for the vast majority of people, surely you can see that judging by the massive negative response on this forum? I'm not sure wherabouts you live or whether you get to Liverpool games but I go quite regularly and the feeling inside the ground is exactly the same towards it. People are hesitant now before celebrating goals and the vast, vast majority would rather just get rid of it
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #708: Dec 28, 2019 05:11:56 pm
      Saw an offside today at the Brighton game because the defender was penalised for being 6ft 4 inches and had longer arms than the Bournemouth  Player it is just ridiculous. Maybe we should have a avg boot size tp allow for big footed players being at an advantage.
      It would have been the lads first goal today he was absolutely over the moon then completely flattened by some arseole in a Little Britain sketch. "the computer says No"
      Boston not la
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #709: Dec 28, 2019 06:06:09 pm
      and again,norwich fu**ed over.
      chats
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #710: Dec 28, 2019 06:06:25 pm
      And again.

      F***ing joke.
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #711: Dec 28, 2019 06:15:44 pm
      I agree with the crowd chants at the games today " ITS NOT FOOTBALL ANYMORE"
      How is that offside clear and obvious and how do they know that line is when the ball leaves the foot its a fuckng joke
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #712: Dec 28, 2019 06:35:48 pm
      F**k VAR

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