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      VAR

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      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #25: Feb 20, 2018 01:36:07 pm
      It's not the FA's fault that fans and viewers can't hear anything, it's FIFA regulations, and like any other FIFA regulation, that's what we have to go with. And why we had no VAR while other sports could use it as they pleased, while laughing at us for accepting wrong decisions given.

      Quote from HUYTON RED
      So you not counting the fifth European Cup on the back of the uncertainty surrounding Luis Garcia's goal?

      Are you saying it wasn't a goal?

      I believe it was, but would have accepted the decision either way if we had VAR. At least he would have the chance to review the footage from multiple angles to make an informed decision, the ref had one.

      On the positive side, we would have had a penalty and balaclava head would have been off, if it wasn't given. It probably would have been a different kind of game after it as well.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #26: Feb 20, 2018 02:02:28 pm

      No I'm pretty much saying I don't like VAR as the system will take out pure emotional moments like what happened when that goal went in and the celebrations that followed. Most celebrations after VAR decisions are always muted when compared to moments like Garcia's goal.

      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #27: Feb 20, 2018 02:17:11 pm
      Quote from chats
      Don't really agree with the idea of long breaks being acceptable because it gets to the correct decision - one of the appeals of football to me at least is the fast paced nature of it (even more so in this country) and the fact that it's done in 95 minutes or so.

      If something's needing 3 minutes worth of replays then there's obviously some doubt so the on field ref's decision should just be stuck to.

      And did you say that after the Spurs game?

      I asked here, how much time was lost between the penalties awarded and taken. I got no response, either because nobody knew or cared.  However, there was plenty of comment about the length of time it took for our penalty to be taken against West Brom the week before.  ??? The difference was, we had the right decision then and we still had the wrong decision a week later.

      According to FIFA research, we lose more time by tactical subs being made, and time wasting over set pieces, throw ins and goal kicks, than any time lost over VAR. Now I know what I would prefer to lose time over, getting a decision correct instead of time wasting.

      A wrong decision can cost someone a game, a title, a trophy, a promotion, a place in Europe, a place in the league itself the next year, a player suspended, or even a manager his job. Not to mention the ref himself being blamed by players and managers because they lost the game. So it's essential to get decisions right, and if it takes a bit more time to get it, then it's worth it in the long run.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #28: Feb 20, 2018 06:23:24 pm
      Didn't need VAR in 2005 to know this was a goal.



      srslfc
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #29: Feb 20, 2018 09:54:05 pm
      You watch Irish League mate? We could be doing with it other here given the standard of refereeing.

      To be honest I rarely get the chance or time to watch local football mate but I know a guy who's a big Glens fan and he says the standard is abysmal.

      NFL, cricket, tennis etc are all sports with natural breaks in play where video reviews 'fit'. Football doesn't and I just think it's very cumbersome especially when the decision is still debatable after a video review.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #30: Feb 20, 2018 10:09:22 pm
      Quote from HUYTON RED
      No I'm pretty much saying I don't like VAR as the system will take out pure emotional moments like what happened when that goal went in and the celebrations that followed. Most celebrations after VAR decisions are always muted when compared to moments like Garcia's goal.

      I'm aware of that, but I'm still willing to accept it if can be verified. Instead, Mourinho still moans about the goal all these years later, knowing full well the consequences if it wasn't given.

      As it is, there are lots of goals where celebrations and emotions are cut short  after seeing a flag up or a free kick given, which is sometimes the wrong decision. At least with VAR, we'll know that everything is being checked and once the game restarts, we'll know that the decision given was the correct one.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #31: Feb 20, 2018 11:09:02 pm
      To be honest I rarely get the chance or time to watch local football mate but I know a guy who's a big Glens fan and he says the standard is abysmal.

      The ref's or the Glen's? Actually they're both abysmal! 😁
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #32: Feb 24, 2018 10:51:20 am
      Quote from ORCHARD RED
      You watch Irish League mate? We could be doing with it other here given the standard of refereeing.

      If they haven't the facilities in England beyond the Premiership, what chance Northern Ireland? Heck, Anfield doesn't even have a big screen to show anything. My national league only introduced the vanishing spray last year, so the idea of using any technology at all, is futuristic.

      I don't think it's a necessary that fans in a stadium see an incident being reviewed, but they need to know that an incident is under review. Just seeing VIDEOASSISTANT on a scoreboard would cover it.

      Next year it will be happening after every goal and major incident, to ensure fair play is enforced and goals scored are 100% kosher. Diving will be wiped out, more penalties will be given, more goals will be ruled out for offside, and more "accidental" handballs will be ruled as deliberate. And in 5 years time, the game will be cleaned up and we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #33: Feb 24, 2018 11:30:40 am


      Next year it will be happening after every goal and major incident, to ensure fair play is enforced and goals scored are 100% kosher. Diving will be wiped out, more penalties will be given, more goals will be ruled out for offside, and more "accidental" handballs will be ruled as deliberate. And in 5 years time, the game will be cleaned up and we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.
      I really can't see that happening mate, much as I like VAR. That would slow the game far far to much and take the excitement of every goal that is scored.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #34: Feb 24, 2018 11:54:50 am
      Need VAR badly, since this thread is a bit Boolean in nature, add a poll?
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #35: Feb 24, 2018 08:36:41 pm
      Quote from Keith Singleton
      I really can't see that happening mate, much as I like VAR. That would slow the game far far to much and take the excitement of every goal that is scored.

      I said before I recognise that, but that's the way it has to be. You can see it happening, because it will be happening. It already is. As now, the vast majority of goals and decisions on the field will stand. But all it takes is a couple of replays to prove it or reject it. There may be hundreds of millions of cash at stake for the clubs involved, so we need the right decision.

      I've walked away from too many games in too many grounds on too many screens too many times down the years, at club and international level, the victim of a ref error or a cheat, wondering why football lets this  happen. I'm sure you and millions of others have felt the same. Timing is no defence. This puts a stop to all that, once and for all so imo, it can't come soon enough.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #36: Feb 28, 2018 10:21:38 pm
      Apparantly, it was the highlight of a Spurs Cup game. I say apparently as I haven't seen the game. And apparently, all the decisions made by VAR were judged as the correct ones, to overturn wrong decisions made on the pitch. That is what it's there for.

      I just wish we had it when it was our turn to play Spurs. Then we would be in second spot already.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #37: Feb 28, 2018 10:25:36 pm
      Apparantly, it was the highlight of a Spurs Cup game. I say apparently as I haven't seen the game. And apparently, all the decisions made by VAR were judged as the correct ones, to overturn wrong decisions made on the pitch. That is what it's there for.

      I just wish we had it when it was our turn to play Spurs. Then we would be in second spot already.

      I went to Anfield for the FA Cup game against West Brom and it absolutely killed it. Nobody knew what was going on and even though we benifitted from its decisions I walked out with more questions than answers.

      Thought it would be for me but not so sure now.
      siavashiva
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #38: Feb 28, 2018 11:46:55 pm
      Don't like it. Doesn't matter if it benefits us or not, I'd down vote it any day. This is not tennis in a relatively small venue where you could actually see and hear the officials. Football games take place in huge arenas and things like VAR just kill the vibe. My two cents.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #39: Mar 01, 2018 12:42:02 am
      Quote from what-a-hit-son
      I went to Anfield for the FA Cup game against West Brom and it absolutely killed it. Nobody knew what was going on and even though we benifitted from its decisions I walked out with more questions than answers.

      Thought it would be for me but not so sure now.

      Everybody knew the game had VAR, and VAR means every major decision is liable to be reviewed. Several were, and wrong calls were overturned. If they were not reviewed, teams would have profited from wrong decisions given and cheating.

      The only important VAR question is, was the right decision made? When the answer is yes, that is the only answer that matters. When we have VAR, we have fair play and justice on a football pitch.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #40: Mar 01, 2018 02:32:54 am
      Everybody knew the game had VAR, and VAR means every major decision is liable to be reviewed. Several were, and wrong calls were overturned. If they were not reviewed, teams would have profited from wrong decisions given and cheating.

      The only important VAR question is, was the right decision made? When the answer is yes, that is the only answer that matters. When we have VAR, we have fair play and justice on a football pitch.

      I don't care about the correct decisions, I expect referees to make mistakes and I accept them as part of the game. The fact is the fans moan about correct decisions now and blame refs when the team ain't good enough. Should be taking timekeeping out of refs hands and revisit VAR when it's less intrusive.


      heimdall
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #41: Mar 01, 2018 09:30:03 am
      Until all grounds have big screens the simple solution is to broadcast the communication between the on field Ref and the VAR Ref, same as they do in cricket appeals, that way the crowd are kept in the loop and everyone should be happy.
      chats
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #42: Mar 01, 2018 09:38:17 am
      Need your head testing if you think a game like last night's is the way you want football to go.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #43: Mar 01, 2018 10:56:16 am
      Quote from Roddenberry
      I don't care about the correct decisions, I expect referees to make mistakes and I accept them as part of the game. The fact is the fans moan about correct decisions now and blame refs when the team ain't good enough.

      That's not good enough. Our sport should not be a safe haven for cheats and con artists to thrive. There is too much at stake for mistakes to be just accepted.

      At least at Wembley, they display the words VAR Review on the scoreboards. That's much more progress in communication about a review, than a referee's earpiece.

      VAR is there to ensure justice is served on a football pitch. Every decision overturned, is simply what the original decision should have been in the first place. We need this and should have had it years ago.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #44: Mar 01, 2018 11:37:25 am
      That's not good enough. Our sport should not be a safe haven for cheats and con artists to thrive. There is too much at stake for mistakes to be just accepted.

      At least at Wembley, they display the words VAR Review on the scoreboards. That's much more progress in communication about a review, than a referee's earpiece.

      VAR is there to ensure justice is served on a football pitch. Every decision overturned, is simply what the original decision should have been in the first place. We need this and should have had it years ago.


      Still don't care and mistakes are what creates a lot of the joy of football for me. I don't give a sh*t about justice on the pitch, no matter how much hyperbole you spout, especially when, at present, it's so do disruptive and dealing with a miniscule number of issues. I'd prefer things that are able to be implemented now, that will have a real impact. Timekeeping should be priority, we've had games that have barely seen forty-five minutes of game time. It's easily solved and removes the far more prevelant cheating of time wasting. Referees having access to game footage afterwards, being able to review their own performance, issues in the game and hand out and rescind cards as they see fit. I'd then, after 24 hours have passed, make the refs available to the press, but VAR, nah, football is sanitized enough these days, without this.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #45: Mar 01, 2018 12:15:07 pm
      Well you're going to have to care, because this is the future of officiating, so I suggest you better get used to it.

      This is not about sanitising the game, this is about applying the laws of the game, as they should be, on the spot. While most decisions will stand, every major decision made is subject to review. You cannot dive, you cannot foul, you cannot cheat and expect to get away with it anymore.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #46: Mar 01, 2018 05:10:01 pm
      Those saying the disallowed goal should have stood are wrong. The defender was held back by Lamela's arm and then Lamela kicked it in the net a few seconds later. BBC and Pundits full of it.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #47: Mar 02, 2018 09:32:43 am

      Nothing knew then.  ;D
      RedWilly
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #48: Mar 03, 2018 06:14:38 am
      Well you're going to have to care, because this is the future of officiating, so I suggest you better get used to it.

      Are you capable of having a discussion without coming across as a complete w**ker?

      Making sound as if it’s a life or death decision. Some people are attracted to football because of the pace of the game. Other people have opinions just as valid as your own. Get used to it.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #49: Mar 03, 2018 08:25:25 pm
      I am used to it. I've no problems with other opinions. It's when people say they're happy when mistakes are made that I can't agree with. Mistakes are not good enough in this, or any other sport. If a player makes mistakes, he gets dropped. If a ref makes mistakes, nothing can be done. Until now.

      Since my last post, La Liga has announced it's coming in next season. Quite a jump from a league that doesn't even have goalline technology atm.

      More importantly, the IFAB have now cleared the way for it to be used at the WC. So the winner will win it by fair play at all times.

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