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      Q. Fans vote for or against VAR

      VAR

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      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan...VAR has no faults Promoter
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #391: Jun 19, 2019 11:59:47 pm
      I'm sure it's the first thing a goalkeeper at any level is told when facing a penalty. "Stay on your line before it's taken". So keepers should be fully aware of that. If they don't, I'm sure they know what can happen. With VAR, it does happen.

      In other news from the ongoing Copa America, 3 goals by Brazil were wrongly given on the pitch in a game. The VAR spotted each one and had them ruled out. No bias, no home town decisions, no small team opponent suffering from refereeing errors. Justice was done in each case, and the game finished 0-0.

      In the opening game, the handball jinx struck Bolivia against Brazil, and VAR was needed to see the automatic penalty awarded. The difference about this one, was that we could hear the ref communicating with the VAR officials. The language may have been Spanish, but that can be translated within seconds. We can and should hear communication between the officials during reviews. We need more of it, for transparency if nothing else.
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #392: Jun 20, 2019 11:29:58 am
      utter bollox Goalkeepers have been moving since the first penalty was taken. They cannot save a penalty with one foot anchored down.
      We need fewer mistakes not perfection in every decision made this is an accountants way of dealing with the issue (sorry accountants) and its going to ruin atmosphere in grounds as we all wait to celebrate a goal once VAR has given it.
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #393: Jun 20, 2019 12:46:24 pm
      Aye. It is a clear rule.. but the problem we have is the application of those rules.

      In this case, they are taking a draconian approach. Applying the wording in a literal sense, and checking that by VAR to ensure it is literal. As in, not even a cm off the line... which is entirely stupid. If we start applying football rules in this manner, the whole game will fall apart.

      Are we going to check how the throw ins are taken? Are we going to look at obstruction cases? Feigning and simulation all over the pitch? Corners - how they are taken and awarded?

      FIFA are merely picking and choosing. In this moment they want to make a big thing of the goalkeeper, so they emphasised the rule on 1 June 2019 before the tournament began. But what about the players running into the box before the ball is kicked? That's also against the rules.. but is being ignored.

      The problem with VAR is the absolute bias that is clear to everyone except lfc across the water. The officials can pick and choose what they want to check and even then how they interpret it.

      This rule with how the goalkeepers act is just ridiculous. Once the mistake has happened, and the penalty repeated, the goal is almost guaranteed as the keeper can barely move. Just consider the situation where a 'yellow carded' keeper is trying to save a penalty whilst trying to avoid a second yellow by making the slightest error !!
      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #394: Jun 20, 2019 02:08:56 pm
      The Premier League are not applying the goalkeeper rule to VAR next season.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48703852
      Boston not la
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #395: Jun 20, 2019 06:07:57 pm
      Good,absolute bollox of a rule.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #396: Jun 20, 2019 07:37:26 pm
      Quote from waltonl4
      utter bollox Goalkeepers have been moving since the first penalty was taken. They cannot save a penalty with one foot anchored down.
      We need fewer mistakes not perfection in every decision made this is an accountants way of dealing with the issue (sorry accountants) and its going to ruin atmosphere in grounds as we all wait to celebrate a goal once VAR has given it.

      It has always been the keeper's responsibility to stay on their line before a penalty is taken. They know that, so they can't complain when it's spotted and enforced. In the latest case, a keeper went early, and was therefore able to save it. It could have kept her team in the World Cup, and it would have been wrong.  Can't have that unfortunately. I think a yellow for it is harsh, but that's the rules.

      People still celebrate after goals in VAR  games, that end up having to be disallowed. I still laugh at Guardiola running around the touchline in the City v Spurs game, only to have his head in his hands 30 seconds later. ;D And people say there's no emotion anymore.

      Quote from DanMann
      Aye. It is a clear rule.. but the problem we have is the application of those rules.

      In this case, they are taking a draconian approach. Applying the wording in a literal sense, and checking that by VAR to ensure it is literal. As in, not even a cm off the line... which is entirely stupid. If we start applying football rules in this manner, the whole game will fall apart.

      Are we going to check how the throw ins are taken? Are we going to look at obstruction cases? Feigning and simulation all over the pitch? Corners - how they are taken and awarded?

      This rule with how the goalkeepers act is just ridiculous. Once the mistake has happened, and the penalty repeated, the goal is almost guaranteed as the keeper can barely move. Just consider the situation where a 'yellow carded' keeper is trying to save a penalty whilst trying to avoid a second yellow by making the slightest error !!

      That's what they have to do. They know they can't move off their line. In fact, the rules used to be even tougher, as in no movement on the line whatsoever. The goalkeeper rule is not for decoration, it's there for a reason. But if you allow them to stand wherever they want, you may as well let them go to the edge of their 6 yard box to face a penalty, after all what is there to stop them? Lets see how much people like that, ruining the game.

      Atm, throw ins, corners and free kicks are not awarded by a VAR. A VAR is not there to re-ref a game, it's to ensure that all goals and major decisions are valid, as per the laws of the game.
      chats
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #397: Jun 20, 2019 08:37:06 pm
      The Premier League are not applying the goalkeeper rule to VAR next season.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48703852

      Some common sense at last.
      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #398: Jun 21, 2019 12:05:19 pm

      Pretty sure this was always the case mate, despite the hysteria on here.
      Boston not la
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #399: Jun 21, 2019 03:48:51 pm
      So if the prem are not using var to enforce this on the line sh*te does that mean it's down to the game officials to spot it or will they let it go?
      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #400: Jun 22, 2019 12:17:46 pm
      So if the prem are not using var to enforce this on the line sh*te does that mean it's down to the game officials to spot it or will they let it go?

      The rule has always been there, it's just not rigorously enforced.
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #401: Jun 22, 2019 02:12:55 pm
      The fact the Premier League are going to avoid it does demonstrate how ridiculous the rule is and the enforcement of it.

      FIFA themselves have just announced that the rule will not be enforced by VAR in a penalty shootout in the Women's World Cup, which is an admission of the farce that it is.  :lmao:

      As I've already said, it is easy to get a goalkeeper sent off by deliberately missing the penalty. Bit of a loop hole there that they are only realising now!
      Boston not la
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #402: Jun 22, 2019 04:07:37 pm
      The rule has always been there, it's just not rigorously enforced.
       

      Fair enough,i thought they'd fu**ed around with the rules,guess i should pay more attention! :f_doh: still think it's F***ing sh*te.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #403: Jun 22, 2019 05:03:57 pm
      Quote from DanMann
      FIFA themselves have just announced that the rule will not be enforced by VAR in a penalty shootout in the Women's World Cup, which is an admission of the farce that it is.  :lmao:

      As I've already said, it is easy to get a goalkeeper sent off by deliberately missing the penalty. Bit of a loop hole there that they are only realising now!

      The rule will be enforced. There just won't be a yellow card for those who are caught off their line. Which is fair enough.

      Going back to the European Cup Final, at least half the delay before our penalty was the referee telling the Spurs keeper to stay on his line. The fact we scored doesn't mean it's one rule for the men and one rule for the women, it's the same for everyone. That's equality folks.
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #404: Jun 22, 2019 05:14:49 pm
      The rule will be enforced. There just won't be a yellow card for those who are caught off their line. Which is fair enough.


      Wait, but it's a rule.

      So why is it not enforced? I thought you were 100% in support of the rules being enforced?
      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #405: Jun 22, 2019 06:14:12 pm
       

      Fair enough,i thought they'd fu**ed around with the rules,guess i should pay more attention! :f_doh: still think it's F***ing sh*te.

      No mate.
      They clamped down on it a few years back, because 'keepers were taking the piss, and out almost to the edge of their 6 yrd box at times.
      As long as they aren't too far out and one foot is close to/on the goal line, it seems they're not too fussed, which I pretty much agree with.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #406: Jun 22, 2019 06:56:39 pm
      Quote from DanMann
      Wait, but it's a rule.

      So why is it not enforced? I thought you were 100% in support of the rules being enforced?

      The yellow card punishment was never a rule, it was only a directive. The rules will still be enforced at the tournament, as they have been.

      Quote from Swab
      No mate.
      They clamped down on it a few years back, because 'keepers were taking the piss, and out almost to the edge of their 6 yrd box at times.
      As long as they aren't too far out and one foot is close to/on the goal line, it seems they're not too fussed,

      What exactly is not too far out? If a keeper moves out before a kick and then saves it, surely they have gained an advantage.

      For most free kicks, defensive players must be 10 yards from the ball, and a line is drawn to enforce it. It's not ok to stand 9 yards or 9.5 yards away, it must be 10 yards, and you can't move until the kick is taken. Amazing how everyone manages to stick to it, without saying how unfair it is and demanding for it be changed.
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #407: Jun 22, 2019 07:04:01 pm
      The yellow card punishment was never a rule, it was only a directive. The rules will still be enforced at the tournament, as they have been.

      The rules state:

      "the goalkeeper or a team-mate infringes the Laws of the Game:
      if the ball enters the goal, a goal is awarded
      if the ball does not enter the goal, the kick is retaken; the goalkeeper is cautioned if responsible for the offence"

      So, the yellow card for the goalkeeper is there in the rules.

      In fact, FIFA clarify a little further that the "caution" given to the goalkeeper is a Yellow Card:

      "Q3: Why must the goalkeeper who infringes the Law at a penalty kick and causes the kick to be retaken, be cautioned (YC)?

      If the goalkeeper moves early (or infringes in any other way) this can directly affect the outcome of the penalty kick so introducing a caution (YC) is consistent with the increased punishment for the kicker and should deter goalkeepers from moving early etc"

      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #408: Jun 22, 2019 08:28:34 pm


      What exactly is not too far out? If a keeper moves out before a kick and then saves it, surely they have gained an advantage.

      For most free kicks, defensive players must be 10 yards from the ball, and a line is drawn to enforce it. It's not ok to stand 9 yards or 9.5 yards away, it must be 10 yards, and you can't move until the kick is taken. Amazing how everyone manages to stick to it, without saying how unfair it is and demanding for it be changed.

      Which part of "one foot is close to/on the goal line" are you finding difficult to understand?
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #409: Jun 22, 2019 09:33:39 pm
      The rules state:

      "the goalkeeper or a team-mate infringes the Laws of the Game:
      if the ball enters the goal, a goal is awarded
      if the ball does not enter the goal, the kick is retaken; the goalkeeper is cautioned if responsible for the offence"

      So, the yellow card for the goalkeeper is there in the rules.

      In fact, FIFA clarify a little further that the "caution" given to the goalkeeper is a Yellow Card:

      "Q3: Why must the goalkeeper who infringes the Law at a penalty kick and causes the kick to be retaken, be cautioned (YC)?

      If the goalkeeper moves early (or infringes in any other way) this can directly affect the outcome of the penalty kick so introducing a caution (YC) is consistent with the increased punishment for the kicker and should deter goalkeepers from moving early etc"



      Dan your flogging dead horse trying to explain  :D His rose tinted glasses on VAR will never change  :lmao:
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #410: Jun 22, 2019 10:33:48 pm
      Can I suggest a rule change. if the goalkeeper is now nailed to his line then maybe the Penalty taker too has no run up and just has to kick it with one foot rooted to the spot .
      This is the problem now they are trying to make the game error free which is going to kill the game. Just give the Refs better training maybe 4 lines people with some Gizmo to indicate offside etc but leave any interpretation to the REF
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #411: Jun 22, 2019 10:35:39 pm
      Quote from DanMann
      In fact, FIFA clarify a little further that the "caution" given to the goalkeeper is a Yellow Card:

      "Q3: Why must the goalkeeper who infringes the Law at a penalty kick and causes the kick to be retaken, be cautioned (YC)?

      If the goalkeeper moves early (or infringes in any other way) this can directly affect the outcome of the penalty kick so introducing a caution (YC) is consistent with the increased punishment for the kicker and should deter goalkeepers from moving early etc"

      I saw a broadcaster mention it yesterday, they specifically said the yellow card was a "directive", not a "rule". Personally I think the yellow is harsh, but if it's a rule, then the rule must be observed. If it's not a rule, it won't be.

      Quote from Swab
      Which part of "one foot is close to/on the goal line" are you finding difficult to understand?

      "close to" can be anything from half a yard to anything you want it to be.

      There is a line for a reason, it applies to every keeper at every level of the game, always has done. 12 yards from the spot, not 10, not 11, not 11.5, not 11.8, it is 12 yards and no less. As the Thailand goalkeeper showed during the week, once a part of a foot is on the line, there is nothing to review and you have no problem.
      Swab
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #412: Jun 23, 2019 12:24:04 pm
      "close to" can be anything from half a yard to anything you want it to be.

      There is a line for a reason, it applies to every keeper at every level of the game, always has done. 12 yards from the spot, not 10, not 11, not 11.5, not 11.8, it is 12 yards and no less. As the Thailand goalkeeper showed during the week, once a part of a foot is on the line, there is nothing to review and you have no problem.

      I see you choose to ignore context.
      Good luck with that.
      DanMann
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #413: Jun 23, 2019 01:37:22 pm
      I saw a broadcaster mention it yesterday, they specifically said the yellow card was a "directive", not a "rule". Personally I think the yellow is harsh, but if it's a rule, then the rule must be observed. If it's not a rule, it won't be.

      The broadcaster appears to be wrong. It is a rule.

      FIFA have chosen to be lenient on this part of the rules whilst upholding the other part literally.

      As I say, it confirms that the rule is wrong. It is impractical and can cause more problems than it is worth.

      Premier League are also abandoning it before the league even starts. It is a farce. It just shows how they can use VAR as and when they want.

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