VAR

Wonder if Pukki will shave now as its getting serious now down to the mm.

and again,norwich fu**ed over.

No they were not. The forward was offside. When he's onside, he can score. When he's offside, he'll be caught. That is zero tolerance.

If you actually wanted it to work effectively you would analyze where it is going right and wrong but you’re seemingly incapable of that.

If VAR was being used to ensure the letter of the law was followed in every aspect perhaps you’d have a point. But it’s not. This week they have picked on encroachment, despite it happening in every pen every weekend and not having been picked out previously.

Next week it will be some other nonsense that no one really cares about, the player stealing a few extra yards at a throw in or something.

Instead, if they wanted VAR to be used in a way that people actually supported they would check the likes of Perez’s stamp on Hendo during the Leicester game or the million other in play incidents that are never pulled up.

VAR is not there for people to support anything, it's there to enforce the rules of the game, when the officials on the pitch did not.

Encroachment has not been picked on this week. It's not the first time it's happened this season, I doubt it will be the last. It has always been an offence, players have known about it for years. The law on it is clear and it is now enforced. Once you read that, you can't complain when it's spotted. In Europe, they're even stricter on it, as the goalkeepers are also being watched. If you don't like the law, change the law. VAR just implements the laws as they  stand, not as people want them to be.

VAR does not rule on throw ins, unless the ball has gone out of play in the build up to a goal.

Mate it's an absolutely ridiculous point because as I said - VAR wouldn't have evened it out either. The very best we would have gotten for that is a Ramos yellow card because cynical tussles like that happen in most games and players dont get sent off for it. We were just highly unfortunate with the way Salah landed. Our best player would have been injured & Real Madrid would have gotten away with it because it wasn't a red card challenge - VAR or no VAR.

It's making the game less enjoyable for the vast majority of people, surely you can see that judging by the massive negative response on this forum? I'm not sure wherabouts you live or whether you get to Liverpool games but I go quite regularly and the feeling inside the ground is exactly the same towards it. People are hesitant now before celebrating goals and the vast, vast majority would rather just get rid of it

Well they can't. So they can either go to games and live with the technology checks as they already do in other sports, or they can do something else. Clearly the vast majority would rather go to games.

Everybody watching is affected, whether you're in the ground or not. We all have to wait for confirmation of whether we've scored or not. Alternatively, 2 ghost goals against us have been disallowed. If that was not the case, we would not have won the games and we would not be 13 points clear atm. So I want VAR to prove that the goals we score are valid, and that we haven't been done out of 3 points down the other end.

The point is not ridiculous. It's one example where something that should never have happened, can't be evened out, despite what you believe. It could have been under Violent Conduct or Endangering an Opponent. They both carry red cards. But we didn't have VAR, and all that was left was a feeling of why nothing could be done about it.

Well they can't. So they can either go to games and live with the technology checks as they already do in other sports, or they can do something else. Clearly the vast majority would rather go to games.

Everybody watching is affected, whether you're in the ground or not. We all have to wait for confirmation of whether we've scored or not. Alternatively, 2 ghost goals against us have been disallowed. If that was not the case, we would not have won the games and we would not be 13 points clear atm. So I want VAR to prove that the goals we score are valid, and that we haven't been done out of 3 points down the other end.

The point is not ridiculous. It's one example where something that should never have happened, can't be evened out, despite what you believe. It could have been under Violent Conduct or Endangering an Opponent. They both carry red cards. But we didn't have VAR, and all that was left was a feeling of why nothing could be done about it.

Other sports are irrelevant, I, like billions of others only really watch football - Football is the biggest sport in the world and all of the others are tinpot in comparison.

One of the reasons for that is that football, unlike a lot of American sports aren't plagued with ridiculous and constant stoppages and timeouts

Football is the biggest and best sport in the world by a huge margin and it's got to onto that perch with minimal use of technology.

Just because technology is widely used in say NFL, doesn't mean it should be incorporated into football 

No they were not. The forward was offside. When he's onside, he can score. When he's offside, he'll be caught. That is zero tolerance.

VAR is not there for people to support anything, it's there to enforce the rules of the game, when the officials on the pitch did not.

Encroachment has not been picked on this week. It's not the first time it's happened this season, I doubt it will be the last. It has always been an offence, players have known about it for years. The law on it is clear and it is now enforced. Once you read that, you can't complain when it's spotted. In Europe, they're even stricter on it, as the goalkeepers are also being watched. If you don't like the law, change the law. VAR just implements the laws as they  stand, not as people want them to be.

VAR does not rule on throw ins, unless the ball has gone out of play in the build up to a goal.

Well they can't. So they can either go to games and live with the technology checks as they already do in other sports, or they can do something else. Clearly the vast majority would rather go to games.

Everybody watching is affected, whether you're in the ground or not. We all have to wait for confirmation of whether we've scored or not. Alternatively, 2 ghost goals against us have been disallowed. If that was not the case, we would not have won the games and we would not be 13 points clear atm. So I want VAR to prove that the goals we score are valid, and that we haven't been done out of 3 points down the other end.

The point is not ridiculous. It's one example where something that should never have happened, can't be evened out, despite what you believe. It could have been under Violent Conduct or Endangering an Opponent. They both carry red cards. But we didn't have VAR, and all that was left was a feeling of why nothing could be done about it.

Next season that goal will be allowed. And rightly so.

Give it a rest pal, or at least understand that you are in a minority of people who think it's good for the game, and in an even smaller minority of people who think it's working as it stand now.

People are fed up with it, but people like to blame VAR as if it's a pedantic robot going around sucking the life out of the game. At the end of the day the VAR is nothing but a set of officials who don't know their arse from their elbow, which h exacerbates the dire situation even more so.

How any one can look at the still of some of these offsides and think 'that's offside' is beyond me. The problem is referees cannot judge to the exact point where someone's arm pit starts and where it ends, nor can they judge the *exact* moment ball makes contact with the passers foot/head.

Its guessing, and its total bollocks. At least next season by the looks of it the microscopic offsides will be left to stand.

In rugby the referee makes a call and the video referee only interferes if it's a proven mistake, and in cricket there is an area of leeway given to officials called umpires call. They dont start giving decisions that the 99% accurate technology shows to be trimming a nail, unless the original decision is out.

No they were not. The forward was offside. When he's onside, he can score. When he's offside, he'll be caught. That is zero tolerance.

VAR is not there for people to support anything, it's there to enforce the rules of the game, when the officials on the pitch did not.

Encroachment has not been picked on this week. It's not the first time it's happened this season, I doubt it will be the last. It has always been an offence, players have known about it for years. The law on it is clear and it is now enforced. Once you read that, you can't complain when it's spotted. In Europe, they're even stricter on it, as the goalkeepers are also being watched. If you don't like the law, change the law. VAR just implements the laws as they  stand, not as people want them to be.

VAR does not rule on throw ins, unless the ball has gone out of play in the build up to a goal.

Well they can't. So they can either go to games and live with the technology checks as they already do in other sports, or they can do something else. Clearly the vast majority would rather go to games.

Everybody watching is affected, whether you're in the ground or not. We all have to wait for confirmation of whether we've scored or not. Alternatively, 2 ghost goals against us have been disallowed. If that was not the case, we would not have won the games and we would not be 13 points clear atm. So I want VAR to prove that the goals we score are valid, and that we haven't been done out of 3 points down the other end.

The point is not ridiculous. It's one example where something that should never have happened, can't be evened out, despite what you believe. It could have been under Violent Conduct or Endangering an Opponent. They both carry red cards. But we didn't have VAR, and all that was left was a feeling of why nothing could be done about it.

If you look up and squint really hard, you’ll see the point flying way over your head.

Pathetic to hear you bang the drum on something that the entire football community seems to have a consensus on. You’d probably do well as one of the officials using VAR because they seem to be absolutely clueless too.

VAR sucks the sweat off a dead mans balls.

who are these faceless numpties who are killing football. Time for them to be outed and taken to task for what they have done to the game we all love

So what's the solution here? Would you advocate scrapping VAR completely? I think it needs a lot of work and is causing more issues than it solves at the moment, but we've also seen it help in certain situations where the objectively wrong decision is made on the field.

Case in point Aubameyang at Old Trafford, where the linesman makes a shocking decision and calls him off. Var intervenes and the goal is given. Clearly in that situation the right decision is reached, and fairly quickly.

The problem lies in the marginal offside calls, the subjective fouls, handballs etc., and the consistency of its use for different decisions.

They need to come up with a better solution for marginal offsides, like Pukki's yesterday, as the current method using the lines doesn't clear things up, and increases controversy.

Subjective decisions are tricky, and the laws of the game also need to be clear (though when have we ever had a clear handball rule...). I think ultimately the decisions on fouls and handballs should lie with the referee on the pitch, and they should be encouraged to consult the monitor to review it themselves if necessary.

I think there are too many clear incorrect decisions which VAR should be able to overturn quickly and fairly, but the implementation right now is causing more problems than its solved. With that said, I don't think we should abandon the technology altogether.

decisions are still being made by humans and are subjective. If you listened to Nuno he spoke very sensibly about how the REF can judge in real time better than a TV replay. He said he can judge the weight of a tackle or the intention of a player which you simply cannot do from a tv screen.
You only have to listen to Dermot the Ref on SKY he has simply no idea about playing or understand football as a game he understands the rules as printed in the rule book but that's it. We need better management of the Ref's not abdication of responsibility to Technology.

So what's the solution here? Would you advocate scrapping VAR completely? I think it needs a lot of work and is causing more issues than it solves at the moment, but we've also seen it help in certain situations where the objectively wrong decision is made on the field.

Case in point Aubameyang at Old Trafford, where the linesman makes a shocking decision and calls him off. Var intervenes and the goal is given. Clearly in that situation the right decision is reached, and fairly quickly.

The problem lies in the marginal offside calls, the subjective fouls, handballs etc., and the consistency of its use for different decisions.

They need to come up with a better solution for marginal offsides, like Pukki's yesterday, as the current method using the lines doesn't clear things up, and increases controversy.

Subjective decisions are tricky, and the laws of the game also need to be clear (though when have we ever had a clear handball rule...). I think ultimately the decisions on fouls and handballs should lie with the referee on the pitch, and they should be encouraged to consult the monitor to review it themselves if necessary.

I think there are too many clear incorrect decisions which VAR should be able to overturn quickly and fairly, but the implementation right now is causing more problems than its solved. With that said, I don't think we should abandon the technology altogether.

If you need lines on a screen to call a player offside, then he is level in my mind. There is no practical benefit to the attacker if his armpit is offside or if his nose is an inch longer than the defenders. Check the offside by all means but it needs to be a clear. Basically, if you have to fanny around for 5 minutes moving dotted lines about to call someone off, then don’t bother because the player is level.

Review all red card decisions at pitch side monitor and review goals at corners for shirt pulling.

For everything else, leave it with the onfield ref but have the VAR communicate if there has been an off the call incident occur.

Anyone who is defending VAR at the moment either is on a wind up or has money in it

If you need lines on a screen to call a player offside, then he is level in my mind. There is no practical benefit to the attacker if his armpit is offside or if his nose is an inch longer than the defenders. Check the offside by all means but it needs to be a clear. Basically, if you have to fanny around for 5 minutes moving dotted lines about to call someone off, then don’t bother because the player is level.

Review all red card decisions at pitch side monitor and review goals at corners for shirt pulling.

For everything else, leave it with the onfield ref but have the VAR communicate if there has been an off the call incident occur.

Yeah I'd agree, some kind of benefit of the doubt or leeway needs to be built into the decision making process for offsides.

Do you think refs should be encouraged to check their decisions on the monitor for marginal subjective calls?

interesting use of var in Australia 

video
https://www.abola.pt/nnh/2019-12-29/australia-a-inovacao-do-var-que-esta-a-dar-que-falar-video/821672

Yeah I'd agree, some kind of benefit of the doubt or leeway needs to be built into the decision making process for offsides.

Do you think refs should be encouraged to check their decisions on the monitor for marginal subjective calls?

If we keep it which seems likely get rid of the idiots checking stuff give the Ref the ability to use a screen if he wants to.

If we keep it which seems likely get rid of the idiots checking stuff give the Ref the ability to use a screen if he wants to.

The refs have probably been told not to go to the screen here, probably because they can’t be trusted to make the decision, especially if it shows their initial one to be wrong.

The way it’s going though, refs will soon become a thing of the past and game will just be officiated by a VAR system. Won’t be long before they are using it for throws and corners.

What does my head in, is why our goal to so f**king long to review. If you’ve got half a brain like me then as soon as you see it touch Adams shoulder and Mane scoring, it takes about 2 seconds to say GOAL, like it is.

Who is reviewing it for it to take about an hour and a f**king half?

Get normal people who can make a f**king obvious decision quickly ffs!

VAR is not there for people to support anything, it's there to enforce the rules of the game, when the officials on the pitch did not.

What a load of bollocks. VAR enforces F**k all, it just gives another chance for either the ref to confirm he was perfect on the first place or for his mates in Stockley Park to ignore that obvious errors have been made as he was one of them.

Just look at CWC final how did the ref change his mind from a pen for us to a free kick for them? VAR failed to enforce any rules other than the system is bollocks and the refs are still sh*t

To be honest have been slightly pleased with the over turn of decisions of late.  VAR should over turn the refs. I didn't like the massive grey areas  and don't agree going to the pitch side screen it wastes time.    At the beginning just felt it was a pair of knickers to cover the arses of referee's.   Let's see how it goes.  I don't like it but if it is going to be around then they need to make quick decisions that has to be paramount.  Not like today when they spent 2 minutes on a decision that could have been cleared up in seconds - 1 replay max 2. 

just seen the REF provide an assist for CITY and it wasn't cancelled out even though he went to blow the whistle but then changed his mind

If you look up and squint really hard, you’ll see the point flying way over your head.

Pathetic to hear you bang the drum on something that the entire football community seems to have a consensus on. You’d probably do well as one of the officials using VAR because they seem to be absolutely clueless too.

So you obviously have not read Law 14. When you read the laws of the game, then you will know why decisions are made.

decisions are still being made by humans and are subjective. If you listened to Nuno he spoke very sensibly about how the REF can judge in real time better than a TV replay. He said he can judge the weight of a tackle or the intention of a player which you simply cannot do from a tv screen.
You only have to listen to Dermot the Ref on SKY he understands the rules as printed in the rule book but that's it.

That's his job, to know the rulebook. I think there should be more use of the monitor, but that's just another box ticking exercise, as it usually means the original decision will be changed.

just seen the REF provide an assist for CITY and it wasn't cancelled out even though he went to blow the whistle but then changed his mind

He never touched the ball, therefore play was not stopped.

Other sports are irrelevant, I, like billions of others only really watch football - Football is the biggest sport in the world and all of the others are tinpot in comparison.

One of the reasons for that is that football, unlike a lot of American sports aren't plagued with ridiculous and constant stoppages and timeouts

Football is the biggest and best sport in the world by a huge margin and it's got to onto that perch with minimal use of technology.

Just because technology is widely used in say NFL, doesn't mean it should be incorporated into football 

I don't watch American sports either, not even MLS where VAR has been used for some time. But I do know that like most sports, the NFL has a safety net, where if the ref doesn't spot something, the correct decision can still be made, albeit in limited circumstances.

Technology has dominated football for many years. It's used in everything from monitoring training routines to disciplinary cases. Now it's finally evolved to the next level, in game action.

What does my head in, is why our goal to so f**king long to review. If you’ve got half a brain like me then as soon as you see it touch Adams shoulder and Mane scoring, it takes about 2 seconds to say GOAL, like it is.

Who is reviewing it for it to take about an hour and a f**king half?

Get normal people who can make a f**king obvious decision quickly ffs!

Personally I don't care how long it takes, but there were 3 incidents to be checked. 2 handballs and an offside. It takes time. Simon Hooper found no grounds for the original decision on the pitch to be confirmed, and it was over in 2 minutes, not much longer than the average of 90 seconds taken for a single incident.

Next season that goal will be allowed. And rightly so.

Give it a rest pal, or at least understand that you are in a minority of people who think it's good for the game, and in an even smaller minority of people who think it's working as it stand now.

People are fed up with it, but people like to blame VAR as if it's a pedantic robot going around sucking the life out of the game. At the end of the day the VAR is nothing but a set of officials who don't know their arse from their elbow, which h exacerbates the dire situation even more so.

How any one can look at the still of some of these offsides and think 'that's offside' is beyond me. The problem is referees cannot judge to the exact point where someone's arm pit starts and where it ends, nor can they judge the *exact* moment ball makes contact with the passers foot/head.

Its guessing, and its total bollocks. At least next season by the looks of it the microscopic offsides will be left to stand.

In rugby the referee makes a call and the video referee only interferes if it's a proven mistake, and in cricket there is an area of leeway given to officials called umpires call. They dont start giving decisions that the 99% accurate technology shows to be trimming a nail, unless the original decision is out.

In cricket, snicko and infrared technology are used to determine if there was a micro touch of a ball with a bat, and if there is, that's it. There's no umpires call for that, he's just overruled if he got it wrong. There's no booing, there's no chanting, the fans just accept it and get on with the rest of the game. Football fans should be able to (and in fairness our fans are good at that) but chanting and shouting is not going to get rid of VAR. It is now absolutely essential in the top tier of football to help keep the cheats out and fair play in.

There were 5 illegal ghost goals overturned at the weekend. If one (or more) of them had counted, and their team stayed up by 1 or 2 points come May, then the teams who went down instead, would be fully entitled to ask, "why wasn't that goal disallowed when it should have been?" amongst a tonne of  other questions.

I don't know if or when the offside law will be changed. If it is VAR will apply it. But that doesn't really solve anything. The law is what it is. You just move the line somewhere else, and people will still debate how offside it is. But the line has to be drawn somewhere, and if the forward is beyond the line, he will still be judged offside.

As long as VAR applies the rules of the game, then it's working. I am in a minority in liking VAR, but I'm ok with that. I have wanted our sport to fall into line with many others for many many years, so I will make no apologies for wanting it, as I would rather have the correct decision there and then, than be upset by the consequences of a wrong decision, days weeks months and yes, years later.

Without VAR:
v Chelsea Draw
v Palace Draw
v Wolves Draw

Liverpool 19 15 4 0 49

Pundit 1: Liverpool can't win the league.
Pundit 2: Liverpool won't win the league.
Pundit 3: Liverpool will never win the league.

With VAR:

v Chelsea WIN
v Palace WIN
V Wolves WIN

1. Liverpool 19 18 1 0 55

Pundit 123: Liverpool have won the league.

I love this system.

just seen the REF provide an assist for CITY and it wasn't cancelled out even though he went to blow the whistle but then changed his mind

Ref never touched the ball, so ref could not give it was in he in the way yes it’s down to the people at top to change law

Ref never touched the ball, so ref could not give it was in he in the way yes it’s down to the people at top to change law

Of course the ref could give it, he’s the F***ing ref