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      VAR

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      stuey
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #800: Feb 05, 2020 03:08:00 pm
      nobody will argue that getting the right decision is always preferable but when it takes so long or we are then drawing lines on  a screen  not even sure if the ball has left the players foot its gone too far.  Judging a penalty decision is still subjective Aguero at the weekend seemed soft but you cant see the contact on TV clearly and the Ref in this case had a good view. VAR was supposed to clear up debate its causing more now. Nothing wrong with the technology maybe its the numpties who use it and apply it are the problem


      Exactly the fine tuning referred to.

      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #801: Feb 05, 2020 03:30:39 pm
      Exactly the fine tuning referred to.



      but its the numpties who are over seeing the fine tuning that are the problem . Goal line technology is perfect because its taken the human element out of the decision cant help thinking there is a similar solution for offside out there somewhere
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #802: Feb 05, 2020 07:35:07 pm
      Quote from JD
      At least VAR gives the opportunity for an extra cheer after each goal - it kind of 'doubles' the atmosphere at most stadiums in this country.

      VAR is levelling the playing field.  The sheer number of decisions that have been overridden only goes to prove just how often referees get decisions wrong.  And remember, VAR isn't even checking all the decisions.  Corners, throw ins etc are all still decision that refs get wrong with impunity.

      Last night's Shrewsbury 'goal' WAS offside.  VAR didn't decide it was offside - it just was.  If the officials have doubts about offside they let the game run and then VAR corrects the decision.  That's a damn sight better IMO than flagging for offside, incorrectly, and a team perhaps being denied a legal goalscoring opportunity.

      I'm a big fan of the team that deserves to win, winning games.  Far too many matches in my lifetime have had their results altered due to bad decisions leading to questions about referee bias etc.  It's no surprise to me that VAR's introduction has coincided with some of the 'big clubs' having such a sh*te season - think a lot of them (and probably us too at periods) have had a lot of 'help' from officials.

      Things have levelled out, as you can see by the dogfight for European spots and to beat the drop. Every team has now had at least 1 VAR decision in their favour. Wolves are the club with the lowest amount of decisions going their way, while their fans struggle to adapt to the change.

      We've got off relatively lightly, but there's no question that VAR has bailed us out at times. We have been on top of the league ever since that handball was spotted at City v Spurs. Since then, everyone else has been playing catch up. Now the lead is 22 points, and at least 10 of them have indirectly resulted from VAR decisions in games, going our way and against City in theirs. Take those 10 points away under the old system, and we would still be biting our nails, probably out of the cup, and talking about never doing things the easy way instead of choosing our preferred game to win the league, and planning our street parties months in advance.

      Quote from stuey
      For the life of me I cannot grasp the thinking of ex players, pundits,even supporters who say VAR is of detriment to the game.

      It needs fine tuning and some adjustment of course but any opportunity to rectify the decisions of the likes of the clown Atkinson can only be a step in the right direction.

      We know why. The culture of the game for as long as I've been watching, (and probably long before that) has always been to use the ref as a running punchbag, to harass, intimidate, influence him, and cheat at any and every opportunity. So the referee (the man who is usually the least informed and cannot explain himself) is always the main target for blame for why their team didn't get the result they wanted. They can't do that in the EPL now, the culture of the game has to change, and they can't take it. Well they're going to have to because that's the way it has to be from now on.

      Aside from that, English refs cannot referee in Europe or the world stage without using VAR in their own league. We're not the only sport that uses technology. All the others manage to grow up and get on with it. So will we.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #803: Feb 05, 2020 08:23:36 pm
      Things have levelled out, as you can see by the dogfight for European spots and to beat the drop. Every team has now had at least 1 VAR decision in their favour. Wolves are the club with the lowest amount of decisions going their way, while their fans struggle to adapt to the change.

      We've got off relatively lightly, but there's no question that VAR has bailed us out at times. We have been on top of the league ever since that handball was spotted at City v Spurs. Since then, everyone else has been playing catch up. Now the lead is 22 points, and at least 10 of them have indirectly resulted from VAR decisions in games, going our way and against City in theirs. Take those 10 points away under the old system, and we would still be biting our nails, probably out of the cup, and talking about never doing things the easy way instead of choosing our preferred game to win the league, and planning our street parties months in advance.

      We know why. The culture of the game for as long as I've been watching, (and probably long before that) has always been to use the ref as a running punchbag, to harass, intimidate, influence him, and cheat at any and every opportunity. So the referee (the man who is usually the least informed and cannot explain himself) is always the main target for blame for why their team didn't get the result they wanted. They can't do that in the EPL now, the culture of the game has to change, and they can't take it. Well they're going to have to because that's the way it has to be from now on.

      Aside from that, English refs cannot referee in Europe or the world stage without using VAR in their own league. We're not the only sport that uses technology. All the others manage to grow up and get on with it. So will we.


      So about this Firmino challenge ?


      Have you been to a match when VAR is in “action”
      AussieRed
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #804: Feb 06, 2020 04:53:35 am
      sms1986
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #805: Feb 06, 2020 10:41:53 am
      -2 net goals, but it doesn't seem to be having much of an effect. Same for Leicester and City, too, whilst the ones in green are at best seventh. The two with the biggest loss are both above the teams with the biggest gains.

      RedPuppy
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #806: Feb 06, 2020 11:07:33 am
      No VAR at the Spurs game? Was Son Heung-Min informed of this?
      therealjr
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #807: Feb 06, 2020 11:30:37 am
      -2 net goals, but it doesn't seem to be having much of an effect. Same for Leicester and City, too, whilst the ones in green are at best seventh. The two with the biggest loss are both above the teams with the biggest gains.



      Because we have a minus score not the plus 20 everyone would have you think the argument now is that our goals get ruled out when we are already 2 or 3 up whereas other teams have ‘crucial’ goals wiped out.
      It’s the problem of arguing with idiots. Eventually they drag you down to their level 😂

      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #808: Feb 08, 2020 11:06:23 am
      Premier league want attackers to have a 10cm tolerance for offside so we will still be getting the measuring stick out . why cant they wear something like a heart monitor that can be picked up by sensors down the touchline then we are using the same measurement for both defenders and attackers a bit like goal line technology and in doing so we can ditch the linesperson
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #809: Feb 13, 2020 10:41:52 am
      Quote from waltonl4
      Premier league want attackers to have a 10cm tolerance for offside so we will still be getting the measuring stick out.

      That will happen in any case. The last line of defence has to be somewhere, and the measuring stick is there to show us exactly where it is.

      Quote from Lallana in Pyjamas

      So about this Firmino challenge ?

      Have you been to a match when VAR is in “action”

      I have been at games in other sports where technology is used to confirm or change original decisions. It's not rocket science. You celebrate, then you wait, and when the decision is confirmed in your favour, you continue celebrating. If it is overturned, you don't boo, you don't chant, you just accept it and move on. It should not be any different in our sport. Most decisions on the pitch stand, even with VAR. Just 35 goals awarded in error, have been disallowed in 250+ games. But VAR means change, and of course change means resistance and resentment. Even when change benefits people.

      There's not really a lot to say about the Firmino incident. At least it could be reviewed, whereas last season it was not possible. As we won 4-0 anyway, it doesn't matter.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #810: Feb 13, 2020 07:09:07 pm
      That will happen in any case. The last line of defence has to be somewhere, and the measuring stick is there to show us exactly where it is.

      I have been at games in other sports where technology is used to confirm or change original decisions. It's not rocket science. You celebrate, then you wait, and when the decision is confirmed in your favour, you continue celebrating. If it is overturned, you don't boo, you don't chant, you just accept it and move on. It should not be any different in our sport. Most decisions on the pitch stand, even with VAR. Just 35 goals awarded in error, have been disallowed in 250+ games. But VAR means change, and of course change means resistance and resentment. Even when change benefits people.

      There's not really a lot to say about the Firmino incident. At least it could be reviewed, whereas last season it was not possible. As we won 4-0 anyway, it doesn't matter.


      So the answer is no you haven’t been to a football match with it in operation- go to one and see how much it is ruining the game

      You can’t say anything about the Bobby incident because it shows how sh*t var is
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #811: Feb 13, 2020 08:59:38 pm
      Quote from Lallana in Pyjamas
      So the answer is no you haven’t been to a football match with it in operation- go to one and see how much it is ruining the game

      You can’t say anything about the Bobby incident because it shows how var is

      I did say something about it.

      Atm, I can't go to a game with VAR because it's unavailable where I am, not because I think it's ruining the game. I look forward to going to one, and seeing it enhancing the game as in most other major sports. The team have benefitted plenty of times from the use of VAR this season, and will continue to in the future.

      Now that I have said something about it, I'll leave you to go on about one incident in a game we won 4-0 instead.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #812: Feb 14, 2020 08:48:32 pm
      Good old Var strikes again totally ruining it for me
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #813: Feb 14, 2020 08:51:14 pm
      Good old Var strikes again totally ruining it for me

      pathetic mate what is the point of the linesperson or Ref anymore just use the VAR Ref. Killing the game
      Boston not la
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #814: Feb 14, 2020 09:01:24 pm
      f**king sh*te call,stick those shitty lines on but you still can't see the exact moment the ball is played.it's computer sports now.The ref and linesman should be the last call.Waiting for cuntchops to say everything is great.And sooner or later someone is gonna deck a ref/linesman over this.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #815: Feb 14, 2020 09:09:45 pm
      pathetic mate what is the point of the linesperson or Ref anymore just use the VAR Ref. Killing the game

      If you can’t see it with the naked eye I think it should stand , the games need goals , there couldn’t have been a gnats cock in that
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #816: Feb 17, 2020 10:59:30 am
      Quote from Boston not la
      f**king sh*te call,stick those shitty lines on but you still can't see the exact moment the ball is played.it's computer sports now.The ref and linesman should be the last call. And sooner or later someone is gonna deck a ref/linesman over this.

      The prospect of a 10 game ban over their head should stop them.

      If you had your own way as above, we would be out of the cup, so no you can't simply count on the ref and linesman to make marginal decisions at this level. Referees need help and now they have it. In this case, the goal was correctly disallowed as it was offside. What the naked eye cannot see, the camera can, and will. The best referee in the league spotted it in time, and did what the law obliges him to do.

      As for the Soccer AM chant going round the grounds these days, I believe there is an alternative VAR friendly version "...This is football for evermore..." Sounds about right I think.

      And one other thing. Do let us know if there is another sport around, that does not use a computer. We're waiting...
      RedPuppy
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #817: Feb 17, 2020 05:15:19 pm
      The prospect of a 10 game ban over their head should stop them.

      If you had your own way as above, we would be out of the cup, so no you can't simply count on the ref and linesman to make marginal decisions at this level. Referees need help and now they have it. In this case, the goal was correctly disallowed as it was offside. What the naked eye cannot see, the camera can, and will. The best referee in the league spotted it in time, and did what the law obliges him to do.

      As for the Soccer AM chant going round the grounds these days, I believe there is an alternative VAR friendly version "...This is football for evermore..." Sounds about right I think.

      And one other thing. Do let us know if there is another sport around, that does not use a computer. We're waiting...

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      HUYTON RED
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #818: Feb 17, 2020 09:06:49 pm
      As for the Soccer AM chant going round the grounds these days, I believe there is an alternative VAR friendly version "...This is football for evermore..." Sounds about right I think.

      Which in turn sound's like the cringey chant "We'll support you evermore" the f**king mancs used to sing every time they used to get beat at Anfield before they started winning the league.
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #819: Feb 18, 2020 10:08:43 am
      they made a right bollox of the Chelsea/UTD game. booked Wilian for diving when he didn't have a choice really then McGuire kicked a player in the nuts but didn't even get a card, Chelsea had one goal disallowed even though it was there player who had been pushed into a UTD player.
      So f**k all to do with computers we have just got someone else giving their opinion on an incident its no better than watching a replay on SKY or BT.
      The offside goal was by the letter of the law offside but f**k me how many goals would have been given offside in previous years. The Genie is out of the bottle now and getting it back in is going to be impossible, for the fans in the ground its killing the atmosphere and ramping up tensions how long before a decision is made in a relegation game last day of the season and all hell lets lose because someone wearing size 12 boots big toe was offside and scores a goal that would keep them up.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #820: Feb 19, 2020 11:21:36 pm
      From the EPL thread.

      Quote from heimdall
      I also think the offside rule needs to be looked at, it needs to be calculated on the centre of mass of each body, with some tolerance given to the attacking team, way to many good goals are being ruled out at the moment, and yes I include the Wolves goal chalked off against us. In the Giroud goal if it was calculated on centre of mass the it would have been fine, its just that Giroud was stepping forward whilst Maguire was midstep as the ball was played, that is not offside in my opinion.

      Except it is. Offside is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. The Wolves goal above was not a good goal, it was offside, therefore it should not stand, it didn't, and we collected our next 3 points in the title race.

      Goals are not ruled out because of boot size, goals are ruled out because an attacker's foot/head/shoulder was found to be in front of the last defender when the pass to him was played. 38 ghost goals have been disallowed this season in 260 games. So the vast majority of goals do stand. Once you score a goal in accordance with the laws of the game, there's no problem. If you haven't done so, then the goal will be ruled out.

      The next phase of expansion is now imminent. Those still in the UEFA Cup are next to see it introduced this week, where Scottish clubs amongst others will finally get the chance to see it in action. After that, it moves to the international stage, in the Euro playoffs next month, into the Euros themselves, then the Nations League games and the WCQ. Therefore all competitive internationals will have VAR, and the monitors  will be used as an extra check so that games are decided on merit, not mistakes. For the cheats, the net is closing in.
      TameImpala
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #821: Feb 20, 2020 08:05:21 am
      From the EPL thread.

      Except it is. Offside is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. The Wolves goal above was not a good goal, it was offside, therefore it should not stand, it didn't, and we collected our next 3 points in the title race.

      Goals are not ruled out because of boot size, goals are ruled out because an attacker's foot/head/shoulder was found to be in front of the last defender when the pass to him was played. 38 ghost goals have been disallowed this season in 260 games. So the vast majority of goals do stand. Once you score a goal in accordance with the laws of the game, there's no problem. If you haven't done so, then the goal will be ruled out.

      The next phase of expansion is now imminent. Those still in the UEFA Cup are next to see it introduced this week, where Scottish clubs amongst others will finally get the chance to see it in action. After that, it moves to the international stage, in the Euro playoffs next month, into the Euros themselves, then the Nations League games and the WCQ. Therefore all competitive internationals will have VAR, and the monitors  will be used as an extra check so that games are decided on merit, not mistakes. For the cheats, the net is closing in.

      You keep mentioning "cheats" - to me, and most people, a cheat is somebody who tries to gain an advantage by intentionally breaking the rules. The vast majority of VAR decisions don't involve cheats. Somebody who's shoulder is offside by a matter of centimeters isn't a cheat, unless he's Neo off the Matrix, he's got no idea whether he's offisde or onside, neither does the naked eye of the linesman and neither do VAR officials without spending 2 or 3 minutes drawing lines onto a monitor.
      verde-rubro
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #822: Feb 20, 2020 11:48:59 am
      but its the numpties who are over seeing the fine tuning that are the problem . Goal line technology is perfect because its taken the human element out of the decision cant help thinking there is a similar solution for offside out there somewhere

      Just feel with the offsides they should use only players feet, if there is daylight between attacker foot and defender then he is offside no fvking armpits, shoulder, backsides. If there is no daylight then he is on side the only problem I see is they getting the when the ball is played to the attacker (ball leaves the foot )
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #823: Feb 20, 2020 12:31:00 pm
      Hope Wengers plan gets passed , cut all this toe nail arm pit sh*t out , at the moment it’s a load of bollox .
      waltonl4
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      Re: VAR
      Reply #824: Feb 22, 2020 02:13:19 pm
      Spurs V Chelsea ...nasty challenge by Spurs player stamping on a player on the ground VAR reviewed it didn't even give a yellow...half an hour later they apologise and said it should have been a RED card. you couldn't make this stuff up.

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