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      WW2 History

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      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      WW2 History
      Mar 04, 2018 02:40:10 am
      If anyone is Interested in WW2 and the political and military aspects. Ive read and studied the war for decades. I think it was the greatest, seminal period in our history. It created nations, fell empires and brought forth a technical revolution in science, medicine, politics and warfare, good or bad!

      Thoughts? Do you have stories? Did your Fathers or Grandfathers or Uncles or Mothers fight?
      Im particularly interested in anyone who had a German or Japanese relative who fought.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #1: Mar 04, 2018 01:49:24 pm
      A couple of interesting reads on the OKW and Hitlers Generals.

      The German Generals Speak:  B.H. Lidell Hart

      Written by a intelligence officer for MI6 and OSS. He interviewed some key staff and its anothet amazing look into Hitler his decisions and what his staff thought of him and his orders. Rivalries with the Wehrmacht and SS. Really interesting. It shows that Hitler really wasnt respected by the higher officer corps, especially the Generals from the Prussian Academys the "Von" Generals.... who not surprising were the ones who initiated the July assassination plot..

      Inside Hitlets Headquarters. 1939-1945: Walter Warlimont.: 

      It has a lot of the minutes and text from the military meetings, personal conversations between Hitler and his Generals. Warlimont was one of inner circle in the OKW and OKH. Its fascinating that the Germans recorded these top secret meetings regarding the decisions and thoughts but at the same time, very German and very precise. Amazing.

      The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. William L Shirer:

      Probably the seminal work on the Third Reich. Its a bit outdated and some of the assumptions and information are incorrect. Not due to bad research but since the 90s and 00s a lot of the German archives held by the Soviets and W.Germany became public. Some of the later editions have been annotated and updated so if your interested look for the newest edition.

      Hitlers Fatal Sickness and other secrets of the Nazi Leaders: John K. Lattimer

      Its amazing. About the medical issues suffered by Hitler. His crippling Drug Addiction. His quack doctor Doctor Morrell. His mental deterioration due to drugs and disease. Possible onset of Parkinsons or M.S.. His constant stomach issues and farting. Which i think is hilarious. The most detested, demonized dictator of the history of mankind was actually an drug addicted moron who spent his final days mumbling and shuffling around his bunker while farting and raging at his Generals.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #2: Mar 12, 2018 06:57:07 pm
      They found the USS Lexington.  Amazing pictures. Planes still under the carrier deck. Bombs and guns intact.

      https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/03/paul-allens-rv-petrel-finds-sunken-uss-lexington-2-miles-down-in-coral-sea/
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #3: Mar 12, 2018 08:21:58 pm
      I'm no history expert but stories you pick up when younger stick with you into adulthood and to be honest there's no better way to engage with history than knowing the surrounding where you were brought up. I don't have any personal stories with regards to WW2 that can be considered that dramatic but having grown up in the Northern Isles of Scotland (both Shetland and Orkney) you're surrounded by so much history so it's hard to ignore (and history that descends all the way back to pre history passing through detailed Stone Age and Viking histories). In particular I enjoy the history of Scapa Flow in Orkney which is a large natural harbour that has been, for the last few decades, a port of call for these great oil tankers that pick up and transfer oil from the north sea oil pipelines. But in the first half of the 20th century it was the home of the Royal Navy in both wars - considered far enough from Germany and large enough to house Britain's then considerable naval machine.

      After the signing of the Armistice in 1918 the German High Seas Fleet was interned in Scapa Flow - 70 odd ships I think. Rather than pass their vessels into the hands of the British the German's thought better and decided to sink them there and then. Since then most the ships have been salvaged and taken away but there remains a few German ships that remain on the sea bed and it's now a popular (albeit dangerous) destination for professional divers. As for the Second World War, Scapa Flow is perhaps best known as the scene of one of the most daring and successful maritime missions of the war. Just a month after war was declared, a German U boat (U-47 commanded by Gunther Prien) sneaked in under cover of darkness during a clear, calm autumn night (a rarity in Orkney) navigating around the small islands and through the tight and intricate inlets of water to enter Scapa Flow and sink HMS Royal Oak - a very much decorated but by then dated ship. That's now a war grave and many of the bodies that went down with the ship remain on her. Gunther Prien the U boat commander was celebrated at home and awarded the highest military honor (Iron Cross isn't it?) by Hitler himself. Winston Churchill ordered the construction of barriers that now act as causeways between various islands that would make Scapa Flow impassible coming in east from the North Sea.

      Shetland's history doesn't quite have the grand amphitheater of war that was Scapa Flow but it's WW2 history is no less dramatic for it was the scene of the 'Shetland Bus' - a North sea crossing set up by MI6 and Norwegian resistance fighters between occupied Norway and Shetland (which lies almost equidistant between mainland Scotland and Norway) where they could transport and smuggle agents and equipment from the UK to Norway. It was based in a lovely little village on Shetland called Scalloway where boats disguised as fishing vessels set off for Hordaland in Norway. Some missions ended very badly, Wikipedia details the story of a small village called Televag near Bergen that was the scene of a Nazi reprisal after one of the Bus missions was exposed. Such events only strengthened the historical ties between those islands and Norway - even the Prime Minister of Norway visited Scalloway a few years ago to commemorate which is a big deal in Shetland! But it's a lovely place (both Orkney and Shetland) and I suppose their remoteness betrays the very active and deep histories both the Northern Isles inhibit and I think when you move away from them you only realise the true qualities of home and see the aspects that you took for granted when you were younger. When you do come back it is with a greater appreciation of the place.
      « Last Edit: Mar 12, 2018 10:41:04 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #4: Mar 12, 2018 09:01:16 pm

      Same people who recovered hms hood's bell
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #5: Mar 12, 2018 09:11:05 pm
      Cool thread..without repeating myself here's a few local stories YANK_LFC_FAN
      www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,49027.0.html
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #6: Mar 12, 2018 09:21:52 pm
      I was born in 1938 just before ww2 started,my Dad was in the R.A.F. and was stationed in Burma.He was only 56 when he died and I blame that on the atrocious conditions the forces had to live under in Burma.By the way he was L.F.C. through and through and took me to Anfield in 1947,the year we won the league.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #7: Mar 13, 2018 02:48:48 pm
      Mate of mine works over at BBC Ulster and he's just put together a really interesting feature about shipwrecks around the coastlines of Northern Ireland called Stories in Sound..
      check it out
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tgqk2
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #8: Mar 13, 2018 03:58:12 pm
      If anyone is Interested in WW2 and the political and military aspects. Ive read and studied the war for decades. I think it was the greatest, seminal period in our history. It created nations, fell empires and brought forth a technical revolution in science, medicine, politics and warfare, good or bad!

      Thoughts? Do you have stories? Did your Fathers or Grandfathers or Uncles or Mothers fight?
      Im particularly interested in anyone who had a German or Japanese relative who fought.

      Great topic.

      I'm a huge WW2 enthusiast, the documentary WW2 in color on netflix is pure awesomeness, not because they only explain the battles that took place but the way the war was conducted, especially how for the first time the naval battles in the pacific were won by aircraft carriers not battleships or destroyers. My grandad was only 10 when the war started and we weren't affected as much as in Europe but he was there when the british invaded vichy occupied territories in Syria & Lebanon (on the coasts of Beirut, Sidon and Tyre). He told me stories about british planes bombing vichy areas in Beirut.

      Imagine if Hitler didn't make decisions that his generals advised against, things would have been different. Thankfully, he didn't listen to his generals!
      FATKOPITE10
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      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #10: Mar 13, 2018 06:49:08 pm
      Mate of mine works over at BBC Ulster and he's just put together a really interesting feature about shipwrecks around the coastlines of Northern Ireland called Stories in Sound..
      check it out
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tgqk2

      Saw a documentary called  killing zone Atlantic on pbs america which explores a similar subject and identified a handful of the wrecks including one of the rarer larger u boats.
      Jimsouse67
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #12: Mar 14, 2018 10:36:09 am
      I was born in 1938 just before ww2 started,my Dad was in the R.A.F. and was stationed in Burma.He was only 56 when he died and I blame that on the atrocious conditions the forces had to live under in Burma.By the way he was L.F.C. through and through and took me to Anfield in 1947,the year we won the league.
      You where born not long after my dad ( 1933) Billy,his father my grandad was in the army and also stationed in Burma and from the stories my father told us you are quite right about the horrific conditions truly shocking,I have a photograph of my grandad & his two mates stood alongside a cannon whilst stationed in Burma will dig it out & post it for those who are interested.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #13: Mar 14, 2018 09:18:10 pm
      You where born not long after my dad ( 1933) Billy,his father my grandad was in the army and also stationed in Burma and from the stories my father told us you are quite right about the horrific conditions truly shocking,I have a photograph of my grandad & his two mates stood alongside a cannon whilst stationed in Burma will dig it out & post it for those who are interested.

      Not long after my Dad was demobbed he was in Whiston Hospital with a burst stomach ulcer,he got over that  but it caught up with him in later life.I used to love my Dad telling me about L.F.C.players the likes of Elisha Scott,Gordon Hodgson and so many other stars of yesteryear.
      « Last Edit: Mar 14, 2018 09:26:28 pm by Billy1 »
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #14: Mar 15, 2018 04:51:00 am
      My Grandfather was in the Pacific. He was at Okinawa which was probably the most barbarous battle in the "Island Hoppin" campaigns. Huge losses on both sides. An interesting fact about Okinawa is the decision to use the Bomb on Hiroshima. Due to the losses by the Marines they thought that the invasion of the mainland would cost well over 100k men, not counting civilian losses.

      When i was a kid I asked my Grandfather about it, he wouldn't talk about it. He said "I'll tell you when your older". Unfortunately,  he died before that and i never found out what he did. I know it was horrific, he had nightmares and became religous later in life.

      My Uncle was in Europe. He was in the Cavalry and was a tank commander. He was shot by a German sniper. Thats all I know. I've been trying to research him but have had problems getting his records. He won the Bronze Star for valor. But, i dont know the specifics. My Grandmother said he was wounded in the Bulge...but, his discharge papers have his wound received on Dec. 6th 44'. 2 weeks BEFORE the Battle of the Bulge. Apparantly his Sherman was hit by a Panzer, they were engaging some elements of a SS Panzer division in Luxembourg. Which puts him behind German lines on Dec 6th of 44. So, the dates may be wrong on the papers I have but thats the correct story.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #15: Mar 15, 2018 09:44:38 pm

      My Great Uncle Scouse John, an engineer with the 46th Royal Tank Regiment, alongside his trusty Valentine tank. The tank he battled his way through WW2 in.North Africa, Anzio landings in Italy then North France.
      He manned one of four Valentine tanks to survive out of ninety in a ferocious battle in North Africa..How amazing
      yet lucky was that :o
      The Valentine was considered to be a bit of death trap with it's big fuel tanks hanging on the side which made it an easy target.
      I'm in the process of having the picture colourised which should look cool when it's done so I'll post it up when it's finished.
      Brave man from a different generation.
       
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #16: Mar 15, 2018 10:55:23 pm
      I was asked recently why the number 52 is on the front of his tank yet he was in the 46th RTR.
      Here's the explanation ;

      As you can see his regiment, the 46th has the number 52 assigned to it which is why most of the Liverpool lads(and Welsh lads) were in the 23rd Armoured Brigade.
      What's more, the Liverbird was their symbol, how cool was that !!
      I'm hoping that once it's colourised, that Liverbird symbol will be visable on the front right of his tank
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #17: Mar 16, 2018 12:39:46 am
      I'm slowly planning a trip to the U.K. Probably next year. I will obviously make a trip to Liverpool and im hoping to see a league match and Cup match at Anfield. But, im also going to try and get to the Imperial War museum in London and the Churchill Bunkers. I would also love to visit Southampton and the Naval museums but doubt I'd have time.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #18: Mar 16, 2018 02:23:55 pm
      I'm slowly planning a trip to the U.K. Probably next year. I will obviously make a trip to Liverpool and im hoping to see a league match and Cup match at Anfield. But, im also going to try and get to the Imperial War museum in London and the Churchill Bunkers. I would also love to visit Southampton and the Naval museums but doubt I'd have time.

      Given that it's free, one of the best museums I've ever been to. Science and Natural History Museum in London are equally impressive.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #19: Mar 20, 2018 04:15:12 am
      Given that it's free, one of the best museums I've ever been to. Science and Natural History Museum in London are equally impressive.

      Thats what I read. Its worth it see those 15" Naval Guns out front. Thats an impressive display. I think they were from the HMS Resolute and were actually fired during the war.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #20: Mar 20, 2018 08:37:00 pm
      I'm slowly planning a trip to the U.K. Probably next year. I will obviously make a trip to Liverpool and im hoping to see a league match and Cup match at Anfield. But, im also going to try and get to the Imperial War museum in London and the Churchill Bunkers. I would also love to visit Southampton and the Naval museums but doubt I'd have time.

      You don't say how long your trip will be.
      You could easily take a couple of days out and head over to the Normandy museums.
      You could go via Jersey / St Malo or jump the Euro shuttle to Paris and head across land that way.
      Well worth the short journey.
      The Omaha beach museum link is here ; http://www.musee-memorial-omaha.com/en/
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #21: Mar 21, 2018 09:52:06 pm
      I still remember V.E. day in 1945 in Liverpool and the street parties that was put on for us kids.Our mothers did us proud, (Dads had not been demobbed at that time) as all food was rationed in those days so it was amazing that they were able to put on a party for the kids.
      « Last Edit: Mar 21, 2018 10:13:36 pm by Billy1 »
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #22: Mar 21, 2018 11:31:48 pm
      You don't say how long your trip will be.
      You could easily take a couple of days out and head over to the Normandy museums.
      You could go via Jersey / St Malo or jump the Euro shuttle to Paris and head across land that way.
      Well worth the short journey.
      The Omaha beach museum link is here ; http://www.musee-memorial-omaha.com/en/

      It would be 7-14 days depending on how i work it out with my vacation days. My main reason for coming over is to go see the Reds. I would like to see at least 2 matches at Anfield. So im trying to arrange it with a League match and a CL Match or FA Cup match.
      I would love to go to Normandy but going London to Liverpool then going to France and back to Liverpool and doing it between matches is going to be Insane. Plus I could spend a week in Normandy and not see everyhing. Id love to see the American military cemetary. I heard its quite powerful.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #23: Mar 23, 2018 04:05:27 pm
      It would be 7-14 days depending on how i work it out with my vacation days. My main reason for coming over is to go see the Reds. I would like to see at least 2 matches at Anfield. So im trying to arrange it with a League match and a CL Match or FA Cup match.
      I would love to go to Normandy but going London to Liverpool then going to France and back to Liverpool and doing it between matches is going to be Insane. Plus I could spend a week in Normandy and not see everyhing. Id love to see the American military cemetary. I heard its quite powerful.

      Fair comment, especially If you only a week or two to pack everything in.
      Hope it all goes according to plan for you :)
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #24: Mar 25, 2018 10:25:37 am
      Fair comment, especially If you only a week or two to pack everything in.
      Hope it all goes according to plan for you :)


      I would also like to go to Germany and do a tour. Unfortunately we bombed them into the dark ages and none of the old Nazi buildings are standing. I would of loved to see the Reichs Chancellory and the Feldenhalle. I understand the reasons,  but the Germans destroyed all the Nazi buildings and monuments in the denazification. I think keeping the history alive is better than destroying and ignoring it. I would like to see Auschwitz but i studied the Holocaust so much i dont know how to view it. It was just a murder factory. I dont want to go visit serial killers homes either and this is worse. But, its such a great monument too the depravity of humanity, loss of common sense, morals and the cult of personality.

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