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      WW2 History

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      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      WW2 History
      Mar 04, 2018 02:40:10 am
      If anyone is Interested in WW2 and the political and military aspects. Ive read and studied the war for decades. I think it was the greatest, seminal period in our history. It created nations, fell empires and brought forth a technical revolution in science, medicine, politics and warfare, good or bad!

      Thoughts? Do you have stories? Did your Fathers or Grandfathers or Uncles or Mothers fight?
      Im particularly interested in anyone who had a German or Japanese relative who fought.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #1: Mar 04, 2018 01:49:24 pm
      A couple of interesting reads on the OKW and Hitlers Generals.

      The German Generals Speak:  B.H. Lidell Hart

      Written by a intelligence officer for MI6 and OSS. He interviewed some key staff and its anothet amazing look into Hitler his decisions and what his staff thought of him and his orders. Rivalries with the Wehrmacht and SS. Really interesting. It shows that Hitler really wasnt respected by the higher officer corps, especially the Generals from the Prussian Academys the "Von" Generals.... who not surprising were the ones who initiated the July assassination plot..

      Inside Hitlets Headquarters. 1939-1945: Walter Warlimont.: 

      It has a lot of the minutes and text from the military meetings, personal conversations between Hitler and his Generals. Warlimont was one of inner circle in the OKW and OKH. Its fascinating that the Germans recorded these top secret meetings regarding the decisions and thoughts but at the same time, very German and very precise. Amazing.

      The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. William L Shirer:

      Probably the seminal work on the Third Reich. Its a bit outdated and some of the assumptions and information are incorrect. Not due to bad research but since the 90s and 00s a lot of the German archives held by the Soviets and W.Germany became public. Some of the later editions have been annotated and updated so if your interested look for the newest edition.

      Hitlers Fatal Sickness and other secrets of the Nazi Leaders: John K. Lattimer

      Its amazing. About the medical issues suffered by Hitler. His crippling Drug Addiction. His quack doctor Doctor Morrell. His mental deterioration due to drugs and disease. Possible onset of Parkinsons or M.S.. His constant stomach issues and farting. Which i think is hilarious. The most detested, demonized dictator of the history of mankind was actually an drug addicted moron who spent his final days mumbling and shuffling around his bunker while farting and raging at his Generals.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #2: Mar 12, 2018 06:57:07 pm
      They found the USS Lexington.  Amazing pictures. Planes still under the carrier deck. Bombs and guns intact.

      https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/03/paul-allens-rv-petrel-finds-sunken-uss-lexington-2-miles-down-in-coral-sea/
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #3: Mar 12, 2018 08:21:58 pm
      I'm no history expert but stories you pick up when younger stick with you into adulthood and to be honest there's no better way to engage with history than knowing the surrounding where you were brought up. I don't have any personal stories with regards to WW2 that can be considered that dramatic but having grown up in the Northern Isles of Scotland (both Shetland and Orkney) you're surrounded by so much history so it's hard to ignore (and history that descends all the way back to pre history passing through detailed Stone Age and Viking histories). In particular I enjoy the history of Scapa Flow in Orkney which is a large natural harbour that has been, for the last few decades, a port of call for these great oil tankers that pick up and transfer oil from the north sea oil pipelines. But in the first half of the 20th century it was the home of the Royal Navy in both wars - considered far enough from Germany and large enough to house Britain's then considerable naval machine.

      After the signing of the Armistice in 1918 the German High Seas Fleet was interned in Scapa Flow - 70 odd ships I think. Rather than pass their vessels into the hands of the British the German's thought better and decided to sink them there and then. Since then most the ships have been salvaged and taken away but there remains a few German ships that remain on the sea bed and it's now a popular (albeit dangerous) destination for professional divers. As for the Second World War, Scapa Flow is perhaps best known as the scene of one of the most daring and successful maritime missions of the war. Just a month after war was declared, a German U boat (U-47 commanded by Gunther Prien) sneaked in under cover of darkness during a clear, calm autumn night (a rarity in Orkney) navigating around the small islands and through the tight and intricate inlets of water to enter Scapa Flow and sink HMS Royal Oak - a very much decorated but by then dated ship. That's now a war grave and many of the bodies that went down with the ship remain on her. Gunther Prien the U boat commander was celebrated at home and awarded the highest military honor (Iron Cross isn't it?) by Hitler himself. Winston Churchill ordered the construction of barriers that now act as causeways between various islands that would make Scapa Flow impassible coming in east from the North Sea.

      Shetland's history doesn't quite have the grand amphitheater of war that was Scapa Flow but it's WW2 history is no less dramatic for it was the scene of the 'Shetland Bus' - a North sea crossing set up by MI6 and Norwegian resistance fighters between occupied Norway and Shetland (which lies almost equidistant between mainland Scotland and Norway) where they could transport and smuggle agents and equipment from the UK to Norway. It was based in a lovely little village on Shetland called Scalloway where boats disguised as fishing vessels set off for Hordaland in Norway. Some missions ended very badly, Wikipedia details the story of a small village called Televag near Bergen that was the scene of a Nazi reprisal after one of the Bus missions was exposed. Such events only strengthened the historical ties between those islands and Norway - even the Prime Minister of Norway visited Scalloway a few years ago to commemorate which is a big deal in Shetland! But it's a lovely place (both Orkney and Shetland) and I suppose their remoteness betrays the very active and deep histories both the Northern Isles inhibit and I think when you move away from them you only realise the true qualities of home and see the aspects that you took for granted when you were younger. When you do come back it is with a greater appreciation of the place.
      « Last Edit: Mar 12, 2018 10:41:04 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #4: Mar 12, 2018 09:01:16 pm

      Same people who recovered hms hood's bell
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #5: Mar 12, 2018 09:11:05 pm
      Cool thread..without repeating myself here's a few local stories YANK_LFC_FAN
      www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,49027.0.html
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #6: Mar 12, 2018 09:21:52 pm
      I was born in 1938 just before ww2 started,my Dad was in the R.A.F. and was stationed in Burma.He was only 56 when he died and I blame that on the atrocious conditions the forces had to live under in Burma.By the way he was L.F.C. through and through and took me to Anfield in 1947,the year we won the league.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #7: Mar 13, 2018 02:48:48 pm
      Mate of mine works over at BBC Ulster and he's just put together a really interesting feature about shipwrecks around the coastlines of Northern Ireland called Stories in Sound..
      check it out
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tgqk2
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #8: Mar 13, 2018 03:58:12 pm
      If anyone is Interested in WW2 and the political and military aspects. Ive read and studied the war for decades. I think it was the greatest, seminal period in our history. It created nations, fell empires and brought forth a technical revolution in science, medicine, politics and warfare, good or bad!

      Thoughts? Do you have stories? Did your Fathers or Grandfathers or Uncles or Mothers fight?
      Im particularly interested in anyone who had a German or Japanese relative who fought.

      Great topic.

      I'm a huge WW2 enthusiast, the documentary WW2 in color on netflix is pure awesomeness, not because they only explain the battles that took place but the way the war was conducted, especially how for the first time the naval battles in the pacific were won by aircraft carriers not battleships or destroyers. My grandad was only 10 when the war started and we weren't affected as much as in Europe but he was there when the british invaded vichy occupied territories in Syria & Lebanon (on the coasts of Beirut, Sidon and Tyre). He told me stories about british planes bombing vichy areas in Beirut.

      Imagine if Hitler didn't make decisions that his generals advised against, things would have been different. Thankfully, he didn't listen to his generals!
      FATKOPITE10
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      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #10: Mar 13, 2018 06:49:08 pm
      Mate of mine works over at BBC Ulster and he's just put together a really interesting feature about shipwrecks around the coastlines of Northern Ireland called Stories in Sound..
      check it out
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tgqk2

      Saw a documentary called  killing zone Atlantic on pbs america which explores a similar subject and identified a handful of the wrecks including one of the rarer larger u boats.
      Jimsouse67
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #12: Mar 14, 2018 10:36:09 am
      I was born in 1938 just before ww2 started,my Dad was in the R.A.F. and was stationed in Burma.He was only 56 when he died and I blame that on the atrocious conditions the forces had to live under in Burma.By the way he was L.F.C. through and through and took me to Anfield in 1947,the year we won the league.
      You where born not long after my dad ( 1933) Billy,his father my grandad was in the army and also stationed in Burma and from the stories my father told us you are quite right about the horrific conditions truly shocking,I have a photograph of my grandad & his two mates stood alongside a cannon whilst stationed in Burma will dig it out & post it for those who are interested.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #13: Mar 14, 2018 09:18:10 pm
      You where born not long after my dad ( 1933) Billy,his father my grandad was in the army and also stationed in Burma and from the stories my father told us you are quite right about the horrific conditions truly shocking,I have a photograph of my grandad & his two mates stood alongside a cannon whilst stationed in Burma will dig it out & post it for those who are interested.

      Not long after my Dad was demobbed he was in Whiston Hospital with a burst stomach ulcer,he got over that  but it caught up with him in later life.I used to love my Dad telling me about L.F.C.players the likes of Elisha Scott,Gordon Hodgson and so many other stars of yesteryear.
      « Last Edit: Mar 14, 2018 09:26:28 pm by Billy1 »
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #14: Mar 15, 2018 04:51:00 am
      My Grandfather was in the Pacific. He was at Okinawa which was probably the most barbarous battle in the "Island Hoppin" campaigns. Huge losses on both sides. An interesting fact about Okinawa is the decision to use the Bomb on Hiroshima. Due to the losses by the Marines they thought that the invasion of the mainland would cost well over 100k men, not counting civilian losses.

      When i was a kid I asked my Grandfather about it, he wouldn't talk about it. He said "I'll tell you when your older". Unfortunately,  he died before that and i never found out what he did. I know it was horrific, he had nightmares and became religous later in life.

      My Uncle was in Europe. He was in the Cavalry and was a tank commander. He was shot by a German sniper. Thats all I know. I've been trying to research him but have had problems getting his records. He won the Bronze Star for valor. But, i dont know the specifics. My Grandmother said he was wounded in the Bulge...but, his discharge papers have his wound received on Dec. 6th 44'. 2 weeks BEFORE the Battle of the Bulge. Apparantly his Sherman was hit by a Panzer, they were engaging some elements of a SS Panzer division in Luxembourg. Which puts him behind German lines on Dec 6th of 44. So, the dates may be wrong on the papers I have but thats the correct story.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #15: Mar 15, 2018 09:44:38 pm

      My Great Uncle Scouse John, an engineer with the 46th Royal Tank Regiment, alongside his trusty Valentine tank. The tank he battled his way through WW2 in.North Africa, Anzio landings in Italy then North France.
      He manned one of four Valentine tanks to survive out of ninety in a ferocious battle in North Africa..How amazing
      yet lucky was that :o
      The Valentine was considered to be a bit of death trap with it's big fuel tanks hanging on the side which made it an easy target.
      I'm in the process of having the picture colourised which should look cool when it's done so I'll post it up when it's finished.
      Brave man from a different generation.
       
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #16: Mar 15, 2018 10:55:23 pm
      I was asked recently why the number 52 is on the front of his tank yet he was in the 46th RTR.
      Here's the explanation ;

      As you can see his regiment, the 46th has the number 52 assigned to it which is why most of the Liverpool lads(and Welsh lads) were in the 23rd Armoured Brigade.
      What's more, the Liverbird was their symbol, how cool was that !!
      I'm hoping that once it's colourised, that Liverbird symbol will be visable on the front right of his tank
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #17: Mar 16, 2018 12:39:46 am
      I'm slowly planning a trip to the U.K. Probably next year. I will obviously make a trip to Liverpool and im hoping to see a league match and Cup match at Anfield. But, im also going to try and get to the Imperial War museum in London and the Churchill Bunkers. I would also love to visit Southampton and the Naval museums but doubt I'd have time.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #18: Mar 16, 2018 02:23:55 pm
      I'm slowly planning a trip to the U.K. Probably next year. I will obviously make a trip to Liverpool and im hoping to see a league match and Cup match at Anfield. But, im also going to try and get to the Imperial War museum in London and the Churchill Bunkers. I would also love to visit Southampton and the Naval museums but doubt I'd have time.

      Given that it's free, one of the best museums I've ever been to. Science and Natural History Museum in London are equally impressive.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #19: Mar 20, 2018 04:15:12 am
      Given that it's free, one of the best museums I've ever been to. Science and Natural History Museum in London are equally impressive.

      Thats what I read. Its worth it see those 15" Naval Guns out front. Thats an impressive display. I think they were from the HMS Resolute and were actually fired during the war.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #20: Mar 20, 2018 08:37:00 pm
      I'm slowly planning a trip to the U.K. Probably next year. I will obviously make a trip to Liverpool and im hoping to see a league match and Cup match at Anfield. But, im also going to try and get to the Imperial War museum in London and the Churchill Bunkers. I would also love to visit Southampton and the Naval museums but doubt I'd have time.

      You don't say how long your trip will be.
      You could easily take a couple of days out and head over to the Normandy museums.
      You could go via Jersey / St Malo or jump the Euro shuttle to Paris and head across land that way.
      Well worth the short journey.
      The Omaha beach museum link is here ; http://www.musee-memorial-omaha.com/en/
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #21: Mar 21, 2018 09:52:06 pm
      I still remember V.E. day in 1945 in Liverpool and the street parties that was put on for us kids.Our mothers did us proud, (Dads had not been demobbed at that time) as all food was rationed in those days so it was amazing that they were able to put on a party for the kids.
      « Last Edit: Mar 21, 2018 10:13:36 pm by Billy1 »
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #22: Mar 21, 2018 11:31:48 pm
      You don't say how long your trip will be.
      You could easily take a couple of days out and head over to the Normandy museums.
      You could go via Jersey / St Malo or jump the Euro shuttle to Paris and head across land that way.
      Well worth the short journey.
      The Omaha beach museum link is here ; http://www.musee-memorial-omaha.com/en/

      It would be 7-14 days depending on how i work it out with my vacation days. My main reason for coming over is to go see the Reds. I would like to see at least 2 matches at Anfield. So im trying to arrange it with a League match and a CL Match or FA Cup match.
      I would love to go to Normandy but going London to Liverpool then going to France and back to Liverpool and doing it between matches is going to be Insane. Plus I could spend a week in Normandy and not see everyhing. Id love to see the American military cemetary. I heard its quite powerful.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #23: Mar 23, 2018 04:05:27 pm
      It would be 7-14 days depending on how i work it out with my vacation days. My main reason for coming over is to go see the Reds. I would like to see at least 2 matches at Anfield. So im trying to arrange it with a League match and a CL Match or FA Cup match.
      I would love to go to Normandy but going London to Liverpool then going to France and back to Liverpool and doing it between matches is going to be Insane. Plus I could spend a week in Normandy and not see everyhing. Id love to see the American military cemetary. I heard its quite powerful.

      Fair comment, especially If you only a week or two to pack everything in.
      Hope it all goes according to plan for you :)
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #24: Mar 25, 2018 10:25:37 am
      Fair comment, especially If you only a week or two to pack everything in.
      Hope it all goes according to plan for you :)


      I would also like to go to Germany and do a tour. Unfortunately we bombed them into the dark ages and none of the old Nazi buildings are standing. I would of loved to see the Reichs Chancellory and the Feldenhalle. I understand the reasons,  but the Germans destroyed all the Nazi buildings and monuments in the denazification. I think keeping the history alive is better than destroying and ignoring it. I would like to see Auschwitz but i studied the Holocaust so much i dont know how to view it. It was just a murder factory. I dont want to go visit serial killers homes either and this is worse. But, its such a great monument too the depravity of humanity, loss of common sense, morals and the cult of personality.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #25: Apr 01, 2018 01:02:52 am
      Back in the late 80's when I was in a touring Rock band we played a six week tour of the British and US army bases in Germany playing mainly squady bases in Munster, Hannover, Osnabruck, Soest and Frankfurt to name a few.
      We were met with open arms when we turned up to play the gig at each of the bases and we had a great time entertaining the troops during our stay.
      On one occasion at one of the bases in Osnabruck we grabbed a ride/tour in a jeep to an area within the base which was known to be a concentration camp..It was really spooky and not a nice atmosphere to be in at all.
      What was left was a few crumbled ruined buildings surrounded by what I can only describe as a perimeter of forest trees.
      One of the buildings which was pretty much intact was the main office building and above the door was a scary looking Nazi Eagle symbol peppered with bullet and shell holes.
      The lads who patrol the area told me that they dread doing night shifts around the perimeter on foot as the noises you hear make you sh*t your pants. No birds sing in the pine trees nearby and it's a horrible shitty atmosphere to experience with all kinds of weird sounds f**king with your head as you patrol round.

      We also toured Brittany around 2001, landing at an airstrip in a dodgy plane from Jersey just south of St Malo and went on to play some great gigs around the area including places like Cherbourg and Brest (Our road crew travelled by road / ferry from Dover-Calais onwards ;))
      During the time we were there and driving around we came across some relics and ruins along the coast and roadsides (Tanks, artillery positions, bunkers, outposts) which were amazing to see first hand.
      Whilst we were there we played at a local bar in a small village outside Saint Renan and the owner showed us a nearby farmhouse which the SS used to interrogate the French Resistance..
      There are place like this all over Northern France.

      My wife has some relatives near the area of Macon and with the wonders of technology and facetime/skype have been able to keep in touch and we have arranged a summer visit..
      They tell me they are not far from the city of Vichy which I'd like to explore.
      I like France, Its a lovely country with so much history to it.

      Trouble is, their wine is the best in the world.  ;D :ernaehrung004:
       

      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #26: Apr 02, 2018 01:58:52 pm
      Back in the late 80's when I was in a touring Rock band we played a six week tour of the British and US army bases in Germany playing mainly squady bases in Munster, Hannover, Osnabruck, Soest and Frankfurt to name a few.
      We were met with open arms when we turned up to play the gig at each of the bases and we had a great time entertaining the troops during our stay.
      On one occasion at one of the bases in Osnabruck we grabbed a ride/tour in a jeep to an area within the base which was known to be a concentration camp..It was really spooky and not a nice atmosphere to be in at all.
      What was left was a few crumbled ruined buildings surrounded by what I can only describe as a perimeter of forest trees.
      One of the buildings which was pretty much intact was the main office building and above the door was a scary looking Nazi Eagle symbol peppered with bullet and shell holes.
      The lads who patrol the area told me that they dread doing night shifts around the perimeter on foot as the noises you hear make you sh*t your pants. No birds sing in the pine trees nearby and it's a horrible shitty atmosphere to experience with all kinds of weird sounds f**king with your head as you patrol round.

      We also toured Brittany around 2001, landing at an airstrip in a dodgy plane from Jersey just south of St Malo and went on to play some great gigs around the area including places like Cherbourg and Brest (Our road crew travelled by road / ferry from Dover-Calais onwards ;))
      During the time we were there and driving around we came across some relics and ruins along the coast and roadsides (Tanks, artillery positions, bunkers, outposts) which were amazing to see first hand.
      Whilst we were there we played at a local bar in a small village outside Saint Renan and the owner showed us a nearby farmhouse which the SS used to interrogate the French Resistance..
      There are place like this all over Northern France.

      My wife has some relatives near the area of Macon and with the wonders of technology and facetime/skype have been able to keep in touch and we have arranged a summer visit..
      They tell me they are not far from the city of Vichy which I'd like to explore.
      I like France, Its a lovely country with so much history to it.

      Trouble is, their wine is the best in the world.  ;D :ernaehrung004:
       



      There is a great website called thirdreichruins.com . It is all pictures of Nazi era buildings and monuments that show nazi era pic and what they look like now. There are a lot of buildings that still have the "Hoheitszeichen" or Reichsadler which was that nazi eagle/swastika. The eagles still exist but due to denazification the swastikas were all chipped off. A real famous one is the Nazi Burger King. Its a BK in an old 30s building that still has the Eagle and wreath on the side. Its weird. But the site is amazing. You can still see  the Zeppelin stand and actually stand on the spot Hitler used to make speeches in Nuremburg at the party rallies.  A really weird way to touch a piece of history that is scary and horrible but its so important to keep alive and to discuss and debate so we dont repeat that era.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #27: Apr 03, 2018 04:49:15 am
      I was asked recently why the number 52 is on the front of his tank yet he was in the 46th RTR.
      Here's the explanation ;

      As you can see his regiment, the 46th has the number 52 assigned to it which is why most of the Liverpool lads(and Welsh lads) were in the 23rd Armoured Brigade.
      What's more, the Liverbird was their symbol, how cool was that !!
      I'm hoping that once it's colourised, that Liverbird symbol will be visable on the front right of his tank

      Interesting, great research.

      WW2 research is very hard when it comes to the smaller units. Divisional history is factual but when it comes to finding small unit history its very confusing. The action reports are best for research but they are not always complete. Especially when it was close to VE. A lot of American units executed the SS men after they liberated the camps. But, you wont find that in reports. I dont blame them, i probably would of done the same. At that time they were numb to it all.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #28: Apr 03, 2018 02:56:51 pm
      A massive misconception about WW2 is the famous " If it wasnt for America you'd be speaking German". Which is heard by the French and British.  Which is usually uttered by the same idiot countrymen who think the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor and visit the U.K. and drink Budweiser because its an Import beer. The Aussies call them "Bogans".

      Its certainly an interesting topic. But it's complete 100% bullshit. When we entered Europe the Blitz was already over for Germany. They scaled back the plans for "Operation Sealion", the Invasion of Britain and then started turning toward a Fortress mentality. Securing the French coast, the West Wall. They were suffering massive casualties in Russia and an invasion of Britain was almost impossible. Plus, the amount of artillery pieces, shells and tanks we shipped over to you even before we got to England, would of decimated any attempted landing.

      So next time an ignorant moron try's acting smart throw these facts in his face and remind him how British Tanks pounded the Africa Corps and stopped Hitler from getting his much needed Oil reserves. Probably shortening the war by 2 years.

      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #29: Apr 10, 2018 03:01:45 pm
      One of the quirky facts about Liverpool was that Adolf Hitlers older half brother Alois Hitler, once lived in Liverpool. He was a bit of a lad by all accounts and wasn't short of confidence. He pitched up in Dublin and took up with Bridget Dowling. She was a bit of a sort as well.

      They eloped to London but ended up in Liverpool. Pick up on the link for the full S.P.

      https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/census-shows-hitlers-half-brother-married-to-an-irishwoman-lived-in-liverpool

      Another fact often ignored is that the borough of Bootle,Liverpool, actually took more bomb damage in WW2 than any other borough in the UK, east end of London included. Mostly because of it's close proximity to the Port of Liverpool docks. Some 89% of housing stock took serious damage. My Father was in the Bootle fire brigade. Never said a word about the horrors he must have seen.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #30: Apr 13, 2018 10:32:50 am
      One of the quirky facts about Liverpool was that Adolf Hitlers older half brother Alois Hitler, once lived in Liverpool. He was a bit of a lad by all accounts and wasn't short of confidence. He pitched up in Dublin and took up with Bridget Dowling. She was a bit of a sort as well.

      They eloped to London but ended up in Liverpool. Pick up on the link for the full S.P.

      https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/census-shows-hitlers-half-brother-married-to-an-irishwoman-lived-in-liverpool

      Another fact often ignored is that the borough of Bootle,Liverpool, actually took more bomb damage in WW2 than any other borough in the UK, east end of London included. Mostly because of it's close proximity to the Port of Liverpool docks. Some 89% of housing stock took serious damage. My Father was in the Bootle fire brigade. Never said a word about the horrors he must have seen.

      Hitler still has family living here in the US. Apparently his brother or nephew moved to Long Island and had kids. It was a family secret and all of the male heirs made a vow to never have kids so Hitlers line will die off and I think only 2 are still alive in their 50s.

      A lot of other Nazis have living children. Heydrich, Bormann, Himmler, Mengele and Eichmann.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #31: Apr 13, 2018 10:55:17 am
      There used to be a P.O.W. camp between Woolfall Heath and Stockbridge Lane (not far from Page Moss)It was famous for the fact that one of the P.O.Ws was a goalkeeper by the name of Bert Troutman and he went on to play for Man City.When we were kids we would look through the wire mesh fence at the prisoners.
                                                           Every house had an air raid shelter in the back garden (they were known as anderson shelter and were just corrugated iron dug into the garden) In the city were the tenaments were they had communal shelters.Every person including children were supplied with a gas mask by the government.The little kids masks were like Micky Mouse--------nearly said Owen there.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #32: Apr 14, 2018 05:21:36 am
      There used to be a P.O.W. camp between Woolfall Heath and Stockbridge Lane (not far from Page Moss)It was famous for the fact that one of the P.O.Ws was a goalkeeper by the name of Bert Troutman and he went on to play for Man City.When we were kids we would look through the wire mesh fence at the prisoners.
                                                           Every house had an air raid shelter in the back garden (they were known as anderson shelter and were just corrugated iron dug into the garden) In the city were the tenaments were they had communal shelters.Every person including children were supplied with a gas mask by the government.The little kids masks were like Micky Mouse--------nearly said Owen there.

      Those "Anderson" shelters were hilarious. People would leave their homes with solid feet of lumber over them to sit in a hole with a 1/8" piece of corrugated poxy metal roof.  I watche a BBC documentary about the blitz and they built full size homes and detonated explosives comparable to German bombs, to show the differences between the munitions and to show the damage they inflicted. The German 1000lb bombs were catastrophic.  It Just obliterated all the surrounding buildings. Those shelters were useless.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #33: Apr 14, 2018 09:37:53 am
      Those "Anderson" shelters were hilarious. People would leave their homes with solid feet of lumber over them to sit in a hole with a 1/8" piece of corrugated poxy metal roof.  I watche a BBC documentary about the blitz and they built full size homes and detonated explosives comparable to German bombs, to show the differences between the munitions and to show the damage they inflicted. The German 1000lb bombs were catastrophic.  It Just obliterated all the surrounding buildings. Those shelters were useless.

      Where I lived in the Page Moss Area the Anderson shelters were dug into the ground and covered with earth.I can't recall any damage  done in that area by the German Luftwaff.My dad bought the shelter from the government after the war  and dug it up and used it as a garden shed.It was still standing in the 1980's to my knowledge.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #34: Apr 14, 2018 12:12:56 pm
      When my grandfather came home from the war, he built a house and had the builders build a side workshop/bunker in the basement. It was just before the cold war but he saw what happened in Japan. Its about a foot below the foundation but had it directly under the cement front patio.  It has about 3 feet of earth, gravel and 36" slab of reinforced concrete. We get occasional tornado warnings and if one is close thats the best place to be.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #35: May 05, 2018 01:53:58 am
      When my grandfather came home from the war, he built a house and had the builders build a side workshop/bunker in the basement. It was just before the cold war but he saw what happened in Japan. Its about a foot below the foundation but had it directly under the cement front patio.  It has about 3 feet of earth, gravel and 36" slab of reinforced concrete. We get occasional tornado warnings and if one is close thats the best place to be.

      I remember in the 70s being given a tour of the town post office with my school class. In the basement was a nuclear fallout shelter which it turned out was one of only two in town. They each could hold about 100 people for a town of 4,500. I guess it was a case of privilege for the swift...

      Speaking of nuclear. I remember giving a ride to a WWII Vet whose car and his broken down. He and his wife were in their late 60s by then as we talked he was adamant he would never see the atomic bombs as a bad thing, because he had been in The Philippines preparing for the invasion of Japan.  I understood what he meant, but I could never think of those bombs as anything but awful.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #36: May 09, 2018 10:40:05 am
      I remember in the 70s being given a tour of the town post office with my school class. In the basement was a nuclear fallout shelter which it turned out was one of only two in town. They each could hold about 100 people for a town of 4,500. I guess it was a case of privilege for the swift...

      Speaking of nuclear. I remember giving a ride to a WWII Vet whose car and his broken down. He and his wife were in their late 60s by then as we talked he was adamant he would never see the atomic bombs as a bad thing, because he had been in The Philippines preparing for the invasion of Japan.  I understood what he meant, but I could never think of those bombs as anything but awful.

      Been to Hiroshima and it's amazing how cool the Japanese are about the bomb. Whether the dropping of the bombs shortened the war or actually saved lives is beyond my knowledge of the conflict. Doubt the people killed would say the sacrafice was justified.

      Seemed a crazy idea for the Japanese to have attacked USA in the first place. Keep the Yanks at arms length would've been my advice. Similar deal with Hitler. Taking on Russia widened the conflict and his fate was sealed once he attacked Russia.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #37: May 10, 2018 11:20:10 pm
      Been to Hiroshima and it's amazing how cool the Japanese are about the bomb. Whether the dropping of the bombs shortened the war or actually saved lives is beyond my knowledge of the conflict. Doubt the people killed would say the sacrafice was justified.

      Seemed a crazy idea for the Japanese to have attacked USA in the first place. Keep the Yanks at arms length would've been my advice. Similar deal with Hitler. Taking on Russia widened the conflict and his fate was sealed once he attacked Russia.

      If you see the figures from the Pacific campaigns its very telling. The closer the US were getting to Japan, the more the Japanese threw at us.  It was Okinawa that convinced Truman to use the bomb. The Japanese propaganda told the civilians that the US Marines would kill their children and eat them. That they would kill all the male civilians and sell the women into slavery. Women were so scared they would grab their children and jump over cliffs and die, because they believed it. I always remember the newsreel showing a little girl who is covered with mud, a marine is giving her water and food and she is so terrified she is visibly shaking. Its such a paradox of war. She is horrified from seeing the death and carnage and the Marine who is probably horrified too, takes the time to kneel down and try and comfort a child of the enemy. Its an amazing video.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #38: May 11, 2018 06:21:51 pm
      If you see the figures from the Pacific campaigns its very telling. The closer the US were getting to Japan, the more the Japanese threw at us.  It was Okinawa that convinced Truman to use the bomb. The Japanese propaganda told the civilians that the US Marines would kill their children and eat them. That they would kill all the male civilians and sell the women into slavery. Women were so scared they would grab their children and jump over cliffs and die, because they believed it. I always remember the newsreel showing a little girl who is covered with mud, a marine is giving her water and food and she is so terrified she is visibly shaking. Its such a paradox of war. She is horrified from seeing the death and carnage and the Marine who is probably horrified too, takes the time to kneel down and try and comfort a child of the enemy. Its an amazing video.

      Even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki there is evidence that the Japanese military wanted to carry on the war
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #39: May 11, 2018 06:59:24 pm
      Even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki there is evidence that the Japanese military wanted to carry on the war

      I remember reading the atrocities caused by the Japanese military during WW2. Can't remember the book, but I struggled to finish it because of how horrific it was.
      RedWilly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #40: May 11, 2018 09:09:24 pm
      I remember reading the atrocities caused by the Japanese military during WW2. Can't remember the book, but I struggled to finish it because of how horrific it was.

      My grans first husband was a POW in Japan and when she has spoken about it on the rare occasion, she describes it as being horrendous.

      One of the stories she mentioned was how he was buried in the ground up to his neck, so just his head out the ground in 40 degree heat for 3 days straight. By all accounts, they were extremely cruel the Japanese during the war.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #41: May 11, 2018 11:01:31 pm
      My grans first husband was a POW in Japan and when she has spoken about it on the rare occasion, she describes it as being horrendous.

      One of the stories she mentioned was how he was buried in the ground up to his neck, so just his head out the ground in 40 degree heat for 3 days straight. By all accounts, they were extremely cruel the Japanese during the war.

      I have a couple of friends teaching in Japan who told me a lot of the atrocities done by the Japanese military are not taught/mentioned and brushed under the carpet as if it never existed :(

      If anyone is interested in how the Japanese Military were back then, check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre. I remember reading a book about it but couldn't finish as it was too much to take in :(
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #42: May 12, 2018 01:31:10 pm
      I have a couple of friends teaching in Japan who told me a lot of the atrocities done by the Japanese military are not taught/mentioned and brushed under the carpet as if it never existed :(

      If anyone is interested in how the Japanese Military were back then, check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre. I remember reading a book about it but couldn't finish as it was too much to take in :(

      They were especially brutal in China. There was a period known as "The Rape of Nanking" where the Japanese just killed everyone. Civilians, women, children they supposedly would bayonet infants. It was as close to raw savagery as any military in history. Comparable to  the SS Dirlewanger Brigade and units of  the Einsatzgruppen.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #43: May 12, 2018 01:57:49 pm
      They were especially brutal in China. There was a period known as "The Rape of Nanking" where the Japanese just killed everyone. Civilians, women, children they supposedly would bayonet infants. It was as close to raw savagery as any military in history. Comparable to  the SS Dirlewanger Brigade and units of  the Einsatzgruppen.

      Unit 731 where the Japanese human experiments on humans to test biological and chemical weapons
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #44: May 13, 2018 01:54:51 pm
      Unit 731 where the Japanese human experiments on humans to test biological and chemical weapons

      Those fuckers were as close as you could get to Bond Villains. I dont know what it was about WW2 but it seemed like every fu**ed up sociopath doctor and every insane experiment and quack theory was allowed and practiced. It wasnt just the Axis, the US Army conducted Syphillis experiments on soldiers at Tuskeegee.I also read that the Allied Army inoculated troops with malaria in order to study it. Possibly to create a cure then infect the Japanese with a malaria bomb. The British were decimated with Malaria in Malaysia, Philipines and Australia. You guys lost a lot of soldiers to that and dysentery.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #45: May 16, 2018 12:32:00 pm
      Those fuckers were as close as you could get to Bond Villains. I dont know what it was about WW2 but it seemed like every fu**ed up sociopath doctor and every insane experiment and quack theory was allowed and practiced. It wasnt just the Axis, the US Army conducted Syphillis experiments on soldiers at Tuskeegee.I also read that the Allied Army inoculated troops with malaria in order to study it. Possibly to create a cure then infect the Japanese with a malaria bomb. The British were decimated with Malaria in Malaysia, Philipines and Australia. You guys lost a lot of soldiers to that and dysentery.

      You had the russians who killed thousands of poles at katyn, interrogated any soldiers captured by the nazi's, largescale raping and looting, had the nkvd going around killing their own soldiers and people
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #46: May 17, 2018 09:33:41 pm
      You had the russians who killed thousands of poles at katyn, interrogated any soldiers captured by the nazi's, largescale raping and looting, had the nkvd going around killing their own soldiers and people
      I think history has been a bit too kind to Stalin. In some aspects he was worse than Hitler. It wasnt really a surprise Churchill hated Stalin. FDR knew that Stalin was a sociopath too but thought it was important to placate him until VE Day. Unfortunately he died and instead of getting tough with Stalin Truman let him do what he wanted. Biggest mistake in the history of the world was Eisenhower ordering the Allied armies to stop at the Elbe and pull back and let Russia take Berlin. Which is a true historical mystery. FDR died on April 12th. The order was given on the 13th or 14th of April. 36 hours after Truman was sworn in as President. History doesnt really tell us if it was FDRs final order to his Supreme Commander or Truman flexing his muscles to show the world leaders that the US line of succession worked and the Constitution is still in effect. Who knows. We do know that Eisenhower hated giving the order. He knew we were days away from a German surrender. If the US and British were first into Berlin, that it was highly probable, the German high command at OKH and OKW would of bypassed Hitlers counter orders, remove Hitler as Chancellor and Supreme Commander and surrender to Eisenhower, Patton or Montgomery.  But, it was also known in SHAEF by some backdoor communications with German Generals that they would not and could not surrender to Zhukov or any Russian without a protracted battle for Berlin.

      Because of Ike's order to stand at the Elbe. The battle of Berlin lasted 17 days. Killing thousands of German civilians, soldiers and children. It turned Berlin into a crater and was a useless show of force by an unhinged Sociopath only because he was an "Allied Leader". What really sucked was the fact that Patton was almost there. He had the entire 3rd Army and dozens of armored divisions which could of taken Berlin and East Germany in days. Instead Truman caved in and gave Stalin Eastern Europe.Its strange how history could of been completely different. Eisenhower knew what Stalin was. He disliked Stalin. Stalin was a slob when he ate. Apparently he treated everyone like sh*t. He was rude and was actually dumb. He had no true education. He boasted about all "HIS" victories and how his Generals were not as gifted as he was. But, Ike knew he was a blowhard. He knew Russia would NEVER go back to their pre-1941 borders. He even told Churchill that they were swapping one tyrant for another and arming them too.

      Personally I think Eisenhower was one of the best Generals we ever had. His actions and decisions and the way he was able to conduct the war with all the differences and ego's and stress, is amazing. He was one of many planners for D-Day but it was Eisenhower who made the final decisions. He ordered and planned numerous operations after D-Day. He had to go wine and dine numerous European leaders and dignitaries and the next minute order thousands of 18 and 19yr olds to storm a beach under a barrage of automatic weapons and German 88s raining down. Not just American troops but British and French boys too. Think about that! An American General was safeguarding Great Britain and ordering her entire generation of 18 to 25yr olds to invade the most heavily defended coastline in the history of warfare. The stress and anxiety must of been suffocating.

      With all that, he still considered  pushing Russia all the way back to their own borders. He knew they would never have a chance to do it like they could in 1945. We had a entire nation geared to military production, we had the largest Air Force and Navy, between 1942 and 1945 we built over 60 Carriers. Plus we had the bomb. Russia was not as strong as the history books claim. The lost 25 million people. They had food shortages, fuel shortages, they had Tanks and artillery in abundance but a limited air force and Navy. Their infantry were ill equipped and poorly trained by 1945. Every major battle the won was because of failures by the Nazis. They won at Stalingrad but suffered more losses than the Germans. They won at Kursk and again lost more than the Germans because Stalin just had more men he could throw in the grinder. The 1940 German Army would of beat the 1945 Russian Army. Its an arbitrary argument and cant be truly quantified but, Russia beat Germany because of one simple word "Attrition" and one General knew this and actually was drawing up plans to surround the Russians and pound them to dust. Patton. Patton would of wiped the Russians out. He even said it publicly, he had no illusions about Stalin or Russia. He begged Eisenhower to push the Russians out. He wanted Truman and Churchill to demand that Russia go back to their 1940 Borders and if they didnt encircle them, cut off their lines to Russia and slowly close the circle. If Russian forces counter attacked and sent reserves from Russia, he planned to drop nukes on them before they could even get to the Poland border. Needless to say Trumam ordered Eisenhower to relieve him of command and a few days later he was dead from a car accident. The man who stood out the hatch of his tank during a battle to shoot at a plane with a pair of silverplated revolvers and challenged Rommel to a tank duel in Libya....died in a f***in' car accident. Possibly by the NKVD on Stalins order. Because Patton was talking sh*t to some Russian Generals and insulted Stalin at a VE day dinner at SHAEF HQ. But thats more conspiracy than anything else.Who cares? I love Patton. He was a product of his time, he had strong beliefs in Honor and Valor and warfare. He wouldnt kill POWs and would probably shoot himself instead of surrender. Like Rommel, another Man and General I admire
      I dont believe he was a true Nazi. He acted completely opposite to those who endorsed and followed the Nazi doctrines. He never ordered a murder or executed POWs or civilians. He was a true soldier and the only German General that Patton respected.
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #47: May 18, 2018 04:38:38 pm
      There used to be a P.O.W. camp between Woolfall Heath and Stockbridge Lane (not far from Page Moss)It was famous for the fact that one of the P.O.Ws was a goalkeeper by the name of Bert Troutman and he went on to play for Man City.When we were kids we would look through the wire mesh fence at the prisoners.
                                                           Every house had an air raid shelter in the back garden (they were known as anderson shelter and were just corrugated iron dug into the garden) In the city were the tenaments were they had communal shelters.Every person including children were supplied with a gas mask by the government.The little kids masks were like Micky Mouse--------nearly said Owen there.

      I had a neighbour who was in that POW camp, actually a really nice fella called Hans. My grandad (who was a Belgian commando) couldn't stand him for obvious reasons!!
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #48: May 18, 2018 04:41:03 pm
      Where I lived in the Page Moss Area the Anderson shelters were dug into the ground and covered with earth.I can't recall any damage  done in that area by the German Luftwaff.My dad bought the shelter from the government after the war  and dug it up and used it as a garden shed.It was still standing in the 1980's to my knowledge.

      My nan used them regularly during the war, plus she used to work in an ammunition factory. I wish I could remember half the stories she used to tell me about life during the war.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #49: May 18, 2018 10:17:45 pm
      My nan used them regularly during the war, plus she used to work in an ammunition factory. I wish I could remember half the stories she used to tell me about life during the war.

      I always thought if I could travel through time I would go to London during the Blitz. From a historical standpoint it would be amazing. I dont mean to sound disrespectful or naive about what was happening. But to stand on the top of a building in London, with the lights sweeping the sky's, barrage balloons, German planes flying over and bombs dropping must of been an emotionally awesome sight.
      waltonl4
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #50: May 18, 2018 10:58:25 pm
      I always thought if I could travel through time I would go to London during the Blitz. From a historical standpoint it would be amazing. I dont mean to sound disrespectful or naive about what was happening. But to stand on the top of a building in London, with the lights sweeping the sky's, barrage balloons, German planes flying over and bombs dropping must of been an emotionally awesome sight.

      THe bombing of Liverpool is well worth looking up in a short space of time the Docks and surrounding area took a massive battering and they still pull bombs from the Mersey every so often.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #51: May 18, 2018 11:51:29 pm
      I always thought if I could travel through time I would go to London during the Blitz. From a historical standpoint it would be amazing. I dont mean to sound disrespectful or naive about what was happening. But to stand on the top of a building in London, with the lights sweeping the sky's, barrage balloons, German planes flying over and bombs dropping must of been an emotionally awesome sight.

      Well if I could go back in time, disregarding my own personal circumstances, I'd go back to somethink like the so called Beer hall putsch and wack Hitler. Although there are probably so many despots from the past who deserved to be wacked, Hitler is top of my list.
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #52: May 19, 2018 10:07:27 pm
      Well if I could go back in time, disregarding my own personal circumstances, I'd go back to somethink like the so called Beer hall putsch and wack Hitler. Although there are probably so many despots from the past who deserved to be wacked, Hitler is top of my list.

      Good choice. At the moment I'm reading a book about Hitler by Ian Kershaw and I can confirm that he is becoming increasingly cuntish by the page.
      « Last Edit: May 19, 2018 10:13:52 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #53: May 20, 2018 10:20:53 am
      Good choice. At the moment I'm reading a book about Hitler by Ian Kershaw and I can confirm that he is becoming increasingly cuntish by the page.

      LOL!  Let me know how it ends, he sounds like an asshole.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #54: May 20, 2018 10:47:14 am
      Good choice. At the moment I'm reading a book about Hitler by Ian Kershaw and I can confirm that he is becoming increasingly cuntish by the page.

      Him and eva live happily ever after in south America apparently
      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #55: May 20, 2018 04:05:58 pm
      Good choice. At the moment I'm reading a book about Hitler by Ian Kershaw and I can confirm that he is becoming increasingly cuntish by the page.

      Yeah...brought so much evil to the planet.

      On a lighter note my great uncle was one of the first in line for recruitment..the so called great war..yeah..in line he was...even lied about his age...said I'm 63 and I've got flat feet...an I don't like loud noises..
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #56: May 21, 2018 01:38:47 am
      Good choice. At the moment I'm reading a book about Hitler by Ian Kershaw and I can confirm that he is becoming increasingly cuntish by the page.

      Ian Kershaw is probably one of the best WW2 historians alive. His books are incredibly researched and concise.

      Believe it or not David Irving was the premier expert on the Third Reich and Hitler until he started writing about Holocaust denial. Which is complete 100% bullshit. It has 0 credibility which is why he only gives lectures too right wing groups and German nationalists now.
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #57: May 21, 2018 09:25:26 am
      My nan used them regularly during the war, plus she used to work in an ammunition factory. I wish I could remember half the stories she used to tell me about life during the war.

      That amunition factory was on the Kirkby industrial estate (no houses in Kirkby in those days)My Auntie used to work  in that factory.There used to be lots of buses go from Page Moss to the Kirkby estate in those days.
      waltonl4
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #58: May 21, 2018 09:38:06 am
      That amunition factory was on the Kirkby industrial estate (no houses in Kirkby in those days)My Auntie used to work  in that factory.There used to be lots of buses go from Page Moss to the Kirkby estate in those days.

      my Mum was bused to Kirby every day and night. They were told during raids to go to a shelter but as my Mum pointed out one bomb on a munitions factory would be enough to finish the entire site.
      She then went to Dunnings bridge to make Bailey Bridges.
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #59: May 21, 2018 11:15:04 am
      my Mum was bused to Kirby every day and night. They were told during raids to go to a shelter but as my Mum pointed out one bomb on a munitions factory would be enough to finish the entire site.
      She then went to Dunnings bridge to make Bailey Bridges.

      I think you will find that it was mostly women who worked in the munitions factory,most of the lads were conscripted in those days.
      waltonl4
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #60: May 21, 2018 06:46:32 pm
      I think you will find that it was mostly women who worked in the munitions factory,most of the lads were conscripted in those days.

      yes indeed my dad and his mate at 19 years of age went straight down to sign up...bloody fools 6 years later and having given the best years of their lives they returned to a country that gave them nothing for their sacrifice. Infact many of that generation still alive are mocked by some people and are thought of as a burden.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #61: May 26, 2018 01:16:33 pm
      yes indeed my dad and his mate at 19 years of age went straight down to sign up...bloody fools 6 years later and having given the best years of their lives they returned to a country that gave them nothing for their sacrifice. Infact many of that generation still alive are mocked by some people and are thought of as a burden.

      I thought I read somewhere that they used the Pitch at Anfield as a victory garden. Growing vegetables and fruit for the homefront. Was that true?
      waltonl4
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #62: Jun 05, 2018 09:51:01 pm
      I thought I read somewhere that they used the Pitch at Anfield as a victory garden. Growing vegetables and fruit for the homefront. Was that true?

      Not heard of Anfield being used but I suspect Stanley Park was .
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #63: Jun 05, 2018 11:22:36 pm
      Not heard of Anfield being used but I suspect Stanley Park was .

      I thought they used to play friendly matches with guest players during the war at  Anfield.
      waltonl4
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #64: Jun 15, 2018 10:56:36 pm
      Watching a Documentary about Das Reich "Hitlers death Army" they carried out atrocities that normal people could not comprehend.
      They were inhuman and it has also bewildered me at how quickly Germany managed to slip back into modern society without much fuss.
      I remember watching a programme about Le Mans 1955 a battle between Mercedes and Jaguar. Jaguar had a couple of sheds in Coventry Mercedes a state of the Art New Factory and now as we know nothing happens in mainland Europe without the consent of Merkel.
      6stringer
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #65: Aug 21, 2018 10:51:04 pm
      Here's the colourised version of the picture I posted up on page 1 of my great uncle John.
      Looks cool in colour, a bit miffed you can't see the decals better on the front though.

      I'm going to build a 1/35 scale model of what you see in the picture and display it in a glass case at home.
      I'll ping some pics up as the build progresses.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #66: Aug 21, 2018 11:08:02 pm
      Here's the colourised version of the picture I posted up on page 1 of my great uncle John.
      Looks cool in colour, a bit miffed you can't see the decals better on the front though.

      I'm going to build a 1/35 scale model of what you see in the picture and display it in a glass case at home.
      I'll ping some pics up as the build progresses.


      Sounds excellent,  can't wait to see them
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #67: Aug 23, 2018 05:57:28 am
      yes indeed my dad and his mate at 19 years of age went straight down to sign up...bloody fools 6 years later and having given the best years of their lives they returned to a country that gave them nothing for their sacrifice. Infact many of that generation still alive are mocked by some people and are thought of as a burden.

      Yeah, I read that you guys still had rationing into the 50's and due to the blitz and bombings you never rebuilt all the manufacturing plants and factories.Thats a shame that the returning British soldiers were not taken care of.

      We had Bonds and G.I. bills which gave our veterans loans and 0 interest home loans. Because of our production and munitions factories switching back to regular production like cars and steel we had a lot of jobs for the vets. But then in the 70s most of our steel production was shipped overseas.

      My Grandfather bought a house through the G.I. bill. He paid almost nothing for it.
      Swab
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #68: Aug 23, 2018 12:00:24 pm
      Not looked after?

      There was rationing, yes, but there was also the formation of the NHS, social housing built on a massive scale, social security (what they now call "welfare" ) and a whole host of societal improvements in the years straight after WW2, including full employment, and the introduction of a lot of workers rights.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #69: Aug 25, 2018 08:53:33 am
      Not looked after?

      There was rationing, yes, but there was also the formation of the NHS, social housing built on a massive scale, social security (what they now call "welfare" ) and a whole host of societal improvements in the years straight after WW2, including full employment, and the introduction of a lot of workers rights.

      And up to the late 1940's and early 1950's most men used to work a saturday morning as part of their normal working week.That was a reason we used to get good gates as working men knocked off at 1 0 clock went for a pint and then into the ground to watch the likes of Cyril Sidlow,Bob Paisley,Bill Jones,Phil Taylor,Laurie Hughes,Billy Liddell Jimmy Payne,Jack Balmer ,Albert Stubbins,Willy Fagan,Ray Lambert.The sad part was because of the war most of these players got old together and were not replaced in time.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #70: Sep 26, 2018 01:05:46 pm
      Second World War Allied bombing raids 'shook the edge of space', scientists say

      German cities were reduced to rubble by the devastating explosives - but it turns out their impact was felt much further afield.

      Shock waves from bombing raids on Germany during the Second World War were powerful enough to alter the atmosphere at the edge of space, scientists have discovered.

      Cities such as Dresden and Hamburg were reduced to rubble and ash by the devastating explosions, with new research suggesting the blasts disturbed the ionosphere hundreds of miles above Earth.

      The bombing raids by the Allies had begun in 1942 and included the so-called Grand Slam, which weighed 10 tonnes.

      The ionosphere, which extends from an altitude of about 50km (31 miles) to 1,000km (620 miles), is electrified by radiation from the sun and space, and its charge was significantly weakened at the height of the bombings.

      Researchers from the University of Reading discovered that the atmosphere had been altered during the conflict after comparing detailed records of the raids with data from British wartime scientists.

      Between 1943 and 1945, staff at the Radio Research Centre at Ditton Park, near Slough, fired a series of shortwave radio pulses 100km (62 miles) to 300km (186 miles) into the air.

      Echoes from the radio signals bouncing off the ionosphere layers revealed information about their height and electrical intensity, but the scientists had no idea the data they were recording bore a chilling hallmark of the war.

      Chris Scott, professor of space and atmospheric physics at Reading, explained: "The work at Slough was routinely analysing the height and intensity of these layers to understand how they vary, but what they didn't realise at the time was that they actually contained the signatures of the war itself.

      "The images of neighbourhoods across Europe reduced to rubble due to wartime air raids are a lasting reminder of the destruction that can be caused by man-made explosions. But the impact of these bombs way up in the atmosphere has never been realised until now.

      "It is astonishing to see how the ripples caused by man-made explosions can affect the edge of space. Each raid released the energy of at least 300 lightning strikes."

      Across a single raid, as many as 2,000 tonnes of explosives could be dropped by four-engine planes capable of carrying much larger devices than those used by the two-engine German Luftwaffe during the Blitz.

      Scientists already knew that the ionosphere could be strongly influenced by solar activity and natural phenomena such as thunderstorms, eruptions and earthquakes.

      But Professor Scott said the revelation regarding the bombs provided "a real quantifiable way of assessing how much energy is required to make the ionosphere wobble".

      The electrical properties of ionosphere affects radio communications, GPS systems and radio telescopes, and so early warning radars used during the war would have been impacted by the raids.

      Professor Patrick Major, a historian at Reading, said: "Air crew involved in the raids reported having their aircraft damaged by the bomb shock waves, despite being above the recommended height.

      "Residents under the bombs would routinely recall being thrown through the air by the pressure waves of air mines exploding, and window casements and doors would be blown off their hinges.

      "The unprecedented power of these attacks has proved useful for scientists to gauge the impact such events can have hundreds of kilometres above the Earth, in addition to the devastation they caused on the ground."

      According to the United States Strategic Bombing Survey - written by a board of experts to provide an impartial assessment of the impact of the Allied bombing of Nazi Germany - almost 2.7 million tonnes of bombs were dropped over the course of the war.

      It reported that 3.6 million dwelling units were destroyed or heavily damaged, with 300,000 civilians killed, 780,000 wounded, and close to 7.5 million made homeless.

      The research from Reading was published in the European Geosciences Union journal Annales Geophysicae.

      https://news.sky.com/story/second-world-war-allied-bombing-raids-shook-the-edge-of-space-scientists-say-11508374
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #71: Nov 15, 2018 05:30:40 am
      Second World War Allied bombing raids 'shook the edge of space', scientists say

      German cities were reduced to rubble by the devastating explosives - but it turns out their impact was felt much further afield.

      Shock waves from bombing raids on Germany during the Second World War were powerful enough to alter the atmosphere at the edge of space, scientists have discovered.

      Cities such as Dresden and Hamburg were reduced to rubble and ash by the devastating explosions, with new research suggesting the blasts disturbed the ionosphere hundreds of miles above Earth.

      The bombing raids by the Allies had begun in 1942 and included the so-called Grand Slam, which weighed 10 tonnes.

      The ionosphere, which extends from an altitude of about 50km (31 miles) to 1,000km (620 miles), is electrified by radiation from the sun and space, and its charge was significantly weakened at the height of the bombings.

      Researchers from the University of Reading discovered that the atmosphere had been altered during the conflict after comparing detailed records of the raids with data from British wartime scientists.

      Between 1943 and 1945, staff at the Radio Research Centre at Ditton Park, near Slough, fired a series of shortwave radio pulses 100km (62 miles) to 300km (186 miles) into the air.

      Echoes from the radio signals bouncing off the ionosphere layers revealed information about their height and electrical intensity, but the scientists had no idea the data they were recording bore a chilling hallmark of the war.

      Chris Scott, professor of space and atmospheric physics at Reading, explained: "The work at Slough was routinely analysing the height and intensity of these layers to understand how they vary, but what they didn't realise at the time was that they actually contained the signatures of the war itself.

      "The images of neighbourhoods across Europe reduced to rubble due to wartime air raids are a lasting reminder of the destruction that can be caused by man-made explosions. But the impact of these bombs way up in the atmosphere has never been realised until now.

      "It is astonishing to see how the ripples caused by man-made explosions can affect the edge of space. Each raid released the energy of at least 300 lightning strikes."

      Across a single raid, as many as 2,000 tonnes of explosives could be dropped by four-engine planes capable of carrying much larger devices than those used by the two-engine German Luftwaffe during the Blitz.

      Scientists already knew that the ionosphere could be strongly influenced by solar activity and natural phenomena such as thunderstorms, eruptions and earthquakes.

      But Professor Scott said the revelation regarding the bombs provided "a real quantifiable way of assessing how much energy is required to make the ionosphere wobble".

      The electrical properties of ionosphere affects radio communications, GPS systems and radio telescopes, and so early warning radars used during the war would have been impacted by the raids.

      Professor Patrick Major, a historian at Reading, said: "Air crew involved in the raids reported having their aircraft damaged by the bomb shock waves, despite being above the recommended height.

      "Residents under the bombs would routinely recall being thrown through the air by the pressure waves of air mines exploding, and window casements and doors would be blown off their hinges.

      "The unprecedented power of these attacks has proved useful for scientists to gauge the impact such events can have hundreds of kilometres above the Earth, in addition to the devastation they caused on the ground."

      According to the United States Strategic Bombing Survey - written by a board of experts to provide an impartial assessment of the impact of the Allied bombing of Nazi Germany - almost 2.7 million tonnes of bombs were dropped over the course of the war.

      It reported that 3.6 million dwelling units were destroyed or heavily damaged, with 300,000 civilians killed, 780,000 wounded, and close to 7.5 million made homeless.

      The research from Reading was published in the European Geosciences Union journal Annales Geophysicae.

      https://news.sky.com/story/second-world-war-allied-bombing-raids-shook-the-edge-of-space-scientists-say-11508374
      Thats amazing. Not completely surprising though. The energy and back pressure of those 500lb bombs was ungodly.  I always thought it was crazy that anti tank shells contain no explosives.  Its just kinetic energy that destroys tanks.The Sabot rounds are just dense metal that travel over 5000ft a second. 
      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #72: Nov 16, 2018 12:34:29 pm
      I would recommend William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Takes the reader through from the birth of the Third Reich to the final death throes of the most despicable regime in history.

      Drama and intrigue on every page. Can open it blindly and pick up on a piece of history, a classic history of Nazism and the most definitive account of that time period.

      Page 1350..

      Hamburg Radio 1st May 1945. To the solemn sound of Bruckner's Seventh symphony....roll of drums and the announcer spoke..

      " Our Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler,fighting to the last breath against Bolshevism, fell for Germany this afternoon in his operational Headquarters in the Reich Chancellery, Berlin.  On April 30th the Fuehrer appointed Grand Admiral Doenitz as his successor."

      The B***ard is dead and may he rot in hell....if there is a hell that is...

      n.b. Hitler actually died on the 30th April 1945..
      « Last Edit: Nov 16, 2018 12:48:10 pm by Harrisimo »
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #73: Nov 19, 2018 04:07:21 pm
      I would recommend William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Takes the reader through from the birth of the Third Reich to the final death throes of the most despicable regime in history.

      Drama and intrigue on every page. Can open it blindly and pick up on a piece of history, a classic history of Nazism and the most definitive account of that time period.

      Page 1350..

      Hamburg Radio 1st May 1945. To the solemn sound of Bruckner's Seventh symphony....roll of drums and the announcer spoke..

      " Our Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler,fighting to the last breath against Bolshevism, fell for Germany this afternoon in his operational Headquarters in the Reich Chancellery, Berlin.  On April 30th the Fuehrer appointed Grand Admiral Doenitz as his successor."

      The B***ard is dead and may he rot in hell....if there is a hell that is...

      n.b. Hitler actually died on the 30th April 1945..

      "Fighting to his last breath?" Ha. Actually spent final days shuffling through a bunker like a bitter old man. Ravaged with stomach pains and gas. Suffering from meth and cocaine withdrawal and possible early onset Parkinsons and Alzheimer's. He was a wreck. Issue commands to SS Divisions which didnt exist and using maps that were all incorrect. It was a perfect picture of the final days of the Third Reich.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #74: Nov 22, 2018 10:06:51 pm
      "Fighting to his last breath?" Ha. Actually spent final days shuffling through a bunker like a bitter old man. Ravaged with stomach pains and gas. Suffering from meth and cocaine withdrawal and possible early onset Parkinsons and Alzheimer's. He was a wreck. Issue commands to SS Divisions which didnt exist and using maps that were all incorrect. It was a perfect picture of the final days of the Third Reich.

      Probably doomed once he gave the order to attack the USSR, code named Operation Barbarossa. Was always going to happen but if Hitler really was a brilliant strategist he would never have opened up a front against the might of the USSR. He couldn't overcome his natural hatred of Bolshevism and it cost him. Had the alliance with the Russians stayed in tact, the Second World War would've taken an entirely different route. Early gains eventually evaporated and the inevitable fate befell poor old Adolf.

      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #75: Nov 26, 2018 12:38:56 am
      Probably doomed once he gave the order to attack the USSR, code named Operation Barbarossa. Was always going to happen but if Hitler really was a brilliant strategist he would never have opened up a front against the might of the USSR. He couldn't overcome his natural hatred of Bolshevism and it cost him. Had the alliance with the Russians stayed in tact, the Second World War would've taken an entirely different route. Early gains eventually evaporated and the inevitable fate befell poor old Adolf.



      Barbarossa was probably the biggest mistake. But one mistake often overlooked was Hitler declaring war on the U.S. At the time Roosevelt was looking to fight Japan only. But after Hitlers declaration they decided that the Nazis were an equal threat. Shortly after Midway the War Department decided that more resources and materials should be sent to England. Plus the Germans stopped attacking the RAF airfields just days before the RAF were to be completely overpowered. Its these little decisions that completely changed the outcome. Eventually the RAF got more Spitfires,fuel, pilots and ammo and were the first to use RADAR effectively. Combined with the daylight bombing raids the Nazis were outmatched.
      ConzS
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #76: Dec 05, 2018 01:50:51 pm
      Great reading this thread and reminded me of why I loved history so much in school. Will give some of the texts mentioned a read.
      molbys belly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #77: Dec 06, 2018 07:04:18 pm
      Both sides funded by the same people.  They don't tell you that in history class
      waltonl4
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #78: Dec 07, 2018 09:57:01 pm
      Both sides funded by the same people.  They don't tell you that in history class

      WTF is that supposed to mean "sides" it wasn't a f***in football match. Why don't you educate us.
       We were at the limit of our capabilities and the USA found many ways to help us before actually entering the War.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #79: Dec 08, 2018 07:42:55 pm
      WTF is that supposed to mean "sides" it wasn't a f***in football match. Why don't you educate us.
       We were at the limit of our capabilities and the USA found many ways to help us before actually entering the War.

      The Yanks weren't exactly welcomed with open arms in Liverpool when the war was on.My recollection is they only got involved when they had to.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #80: Dec 08, 2018 07:46:49 pm
      Both sides funded by the same people.  They don't tell you that in history class

      Who are the 'same people'. Come on pal, don't be shy.
      RedWilly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #81: Dec 09, 2018 04:13:24 am
      Barbarossa was probably the biggest mistake. But one mistake often overlooked was Hitler declaring war on the U.S. At the time Roosevelt was looking to fight Japan only. But after Hitlers declaration they decided that the Nazis were an equal threat. Shortly after Midway the War Department decided that more resources and materials should be sent to England. Plus the Germans stopped attacking the RAF airfields just days before the RAF were to be completely overpowered. Its these little decisions that completely changed the outcome. Eventually the RAF got more Spitfires,fuel, pilots and ammo and were the first to use RADAR effectively. Combined with the daylight bombing raids the Nazis were outmatched.

      Just read up about this, I had always assumed that the US entered the war as a response to Pearl Harbour but didn’t realize that Hitler was the one to formally declare war on the US, which basically gave Roosevelt a free hand to enter the European war.

      It’s a bit mad to think of the sheer scale of US influence on the 20th century, declaring war on them seems like lunacy in hindsight!
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #82: Dec 09, 2018 06:44:35 am
      Who are the 'same people'. Come on pal, don't be shy.

      Does it involve tin foil ?
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #83: Dec 10, 2018 06:51:13 pm
      Just read up about this, I had always assumed that the US entered the war as a response to Pearl Harbour but didn’t realize that Hitler was the one to formally declare war on the US, which basically gave Roosevelt a free hand to enter the European war.

      It’s a bit mad to think of the sheer scale of US influence on the 20th century, declaring war on them seems like lunacy in hindsight!

      We weren't exactly a military power. The Army was smaller than Belgiums army.  In 1940 the combined US military was 460,000 men. In 1945 it was12 Million.
      Our main force was the Navy because we are bordered by the Pacific and Atlantic it was necessary.  But we really had no sizeable Army. We had good Cavalry units which were starting to study the armored warfare of men like Rommel and Guderian. Other than that our best weapon was Industry. We could instantly change from peacetime to wartime economy. We were self reliant for Oil,steel,copper,brass etc... and had the manpower to meet the needs for a 2 front war.
      « Last Edit: Dec 10, 2018 07:01:01 pm by YANK_LFC_FAN »
      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #84: Dec 13, 2018 08:49:32 pm
      We weren't exactly a military power. The Army was smaller than Belgiums army.  In 1940 the combined US military was 460,000 men. In 1945 it was12 Million.
      Our main force was the Navy because we are bordered by the Pacific and Atlantic it was necessary.  But we really had no sizeable Army. We had good Cavalry units which were starting to study the armored warfare of men like Rommel and Guderian. Other than that our best weapon was Industry. We could instantly change from peacetime to wartime economy. We were self reliant for Oil,steel,copper,brass etc... and had the manpower to meet the needs for a 2 front war.

      Indeed the industrial capacity of the United states was critical to the outcome of the War. The convoys coming over from the US were vital to the British war front. Bringing over food, raw materials etc. German U boats had great success in sinking millions of tons of shipping. Once they had a foothold in France they extended their range and very nearly tipped the balance of the War.

      Strangely enough during World War 1 German U boats observed " prise rules" in that they actually surfaced, giving passengers and crews a chance to get off the ship.The practice probably goes back to the days of pirates etc. Was soon abandoned tho.

      The convoys from the US weren't free by the way. Britain owed the US many millions at the end of the War in so called War Loans, over £20 billion. But still worth it, but very many lost their lives helping the War effort. And we owe them a huge debt which we can never repay.
      waltonl4
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #85: Dec 13, 2018 09:11:11 pm
      The Yanks weren't exactly welcomed with open arms in Liverpool when the war was on.My recollection is they only got involved when they had to.

      we are talking about how they found ways of supplying us without the consent of congress. Lend lease totalled something like $30 billion they may not have had feet on the ground but Roosevelt tried hard to support us .
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #86: Dec 14, 2018 01:49:20 pm
      The Yanks weren't exactly welcomed with open arms in Liverpool when the war was on.My recollection is they only got involved when they had to.

      I cant speak to what the people of Liverpool thought of the "Yanks". But to say we "only got involved when we had to" is not entirely correct. In our Congress we had 2 sides. "Isolationist" and realist.  The main argument against that war was it was "Europes problem". We lost a generation of our boys in WW1 fighting in war which was, lets be honest, started and controlled by Europes Royalty. Infighting between Europes Royal families that didnt send their sons into the trenches, but ordered the poor working classes to die for them to keep their monarchies.  If you know anything about us we dont do well with Monarchies.  That was still very fresh in the minds of our politicians.  Many who fought in WW1 wanted us out of Europe.  But by the early 20th century Britain was an ally. If your statement was true why did we decide to dedicate most of our efforts in Europe and not the Pacific?  We retooled a massive amount of industrial production to war materials, to send too the British before Pearl Harbor.

      Even after Pearl Harbor we didnt have to get involved. Japan wasn't capable of invading the US. Midway showed that. German had no way of invading us. They had no carriers or any naval threat that could force us to capitulate. They couldnt blockade us. Surround us or land any force.
      So what was the reason as you stated that we "had to get involved"?

      Even today its unlikely we could be invaded.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #87: Dec 14, 2018 02:45:40 pm
      I would recommend William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Takes the reader through from the birth of the Third Reich to the final death throes of the most despicable regime in history.

      Drama and intrigue on every page. Can open it blindly and pick up on a piece of history, a classic history of Nazism and the most definitive account of that time period.

      I have the book, had it for years and not read it yet, but I will get round to it soon!

      Page 1350..

      Hamburg Radio 1st May 1945. To the solemn sound of Bruckner's Seventh symphony....roll of drums and the announcer spoke..

      " Our Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler,fighting to the last breath against Bolshevism, fell for Germany this afternoon in his operational Headquarters in the Reich Chancellery, Berlin.  On April 30th the Fuehrer appointed Grand Admiral Doenitz as his successor."

      The B***ard is dead and may he rot in hell....if there is a hell that is...

      n.b. Hitler actually died on the 30th April 1945..

      And omg... spoilers?!?!? :P
      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #88: Dec 14, 2018 08:17:36 pm
      There might have been some hostility to the Americans coming over here, but only in a kind of jealousy or annoyance at the way they carry on . Most Americans are self confident etc. Flashy types would never go down very well with the down to earth British Tommy.

      From a pure military stand point they were vital to the winning of both World Wars. Despite the odd annoyance I doubt there was one single person in the UK that didn't welcome the USA into the War.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #89: Dec 18, 2018 10:18:20 pm
      Anyone familiar with the Battle of Castle Itter?

      It is a fascinating story and really shows the Insanity of the final days of the Third Reich.

      Castle Itter was used as a prison by the German to house top level French politicians and public figures. A prisoner managed to leave the castle to find an American unit and ask for help. Eventually allied command agreed that these men should be rescued in order to help the French reconstruction amd reestablish a working government.  But, the main force was stopped by an artillery strike and only a small group of 14 men and 3 Shermans made it to the castle. The US commander was then approached by a German army officer who offered his men to help free the prisoners. Which they did. The next day the US commander led a force of American and GERMAN soldiers against a group of 150 Waffen SS sent to capture the castle and kill the prisoners. The defenders fought off the SS and held the castle. Just an absolutely, amazing story.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #90: Dec 20, 2018 07:45:45 am
      I cant speak to what the people of Liverpool thought of the "Yanks". But to say we "only got involved when we had to" is not entirely correct. In our Congress we had 2 sides. "Isolationist" and realist.  The main argument against that war was it was "Europes problem". We lost a generation of our boys in WW1 fighting in war which was, lets be honest, started and controlled by Europes Royalty. Infighting between Europes Royal families that didnt send their sons into the trenches, but ordered the poor working classes to die for them to keep their monarchies.  If you know anything about us we dont do well with Monarchies.  That was still very fresh in the minds of our politicians.  Many who fought in WW1 wanted us out of Europe.  But by the early 20th century Britain was an ally. If your statement was true why did we decide to dedicate most of our efforts in Europe and not the Pacific?  We retooled a massive amount of industrial production to war materials, to send too the British before Pearl Harbor.

      Even after Pearl Harbor we didnt have to get involved. Japan wasn't capable of invading the US. Midway showed that. German had no way of invading us. They had no carriers or any naval threat that could force us to capitulate. They couldnt blockade us. Surround us or land any force.
      So what was the reason as you stated that we "had to get involved"?

      Even today its unlikely we could be invaded.

      When I say the Yanks were not exactly welcome in Liverpool in the 2nd world war I refer to the battles outside the Eagle& Child pub in page Moss  and down in Lime Street.There was total animosity towards the American forces who were stationed in Burtonwood near Warrington.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      • Timid men prefer the calm of despotism!
      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #91: Dec 29, 2018 04:56:59 am
      When I say the Yanks were not exactly welcome in Liverpool in the 2nd world war I refer to the battles outside the Eagle& Child pub in page Moss  and down in Lime Street.There was total animosity towards the American forces who were stationed in Burtonwood near Warrington.
      Well, lets be fair. If you take thousands of 18-24 yr old men who are sitting around in a foreign country, many who have never been out of the State they lived in. Who are bored and essentially waiting to die for the most part. Then add alcohol, testosterone and probably some patriotism. Shits going down! If roles were reversed im sure a lot of your boys would be tearing up a few bars over here. Its no different than the English Hooligans who travel to France or Germany for the Euros or WC. You get tribal and aggro when your a soldier far from home.
      Billy1
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 10,563 posts | 1901 
      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #92: Dec 29, 2018 08:13:43 am
      Well, lets be fair. If you take thousands of 18-24 yr old men who are sitting around in a foreign country, many who have never been out of the State they lived in. Who are bored and essentially waiting to die for the most part. Then add alcohol, testosterone and probably some patriotism. Shits going down! If roles were reversed im sure a lot of your boys would be tearing up a few bars over here. Its no different than the English Hooligans who travel to France or Germany for the Euros or WC. You get tribal and aggro when your a soldier far from home.

      I am just telling things as I recall them happening in the Page Moss area where I was a young lad during the second world war.I still seem to recall the issues getting front page coverage in the Liverpool Echo.

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