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      WW2 History

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      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #75: Nov 26, 2018 12:38:56 am
      Probably doomed once he gave the order to attack the USSR, code named Operation Barbarossa. Was always going to happen but if Hitler really was a brilliant strategist he would never have opened up a front against the might of the USSR. He couldn't overcome his natural hatred of Bolshevism and it cost him. Had the alliance with the Russians stayed in tact, the Second World War would've taken an entirely different route. Early gains eventually evaporated and the inevitable fate befell poor old Adolf.



      Barbarossa was probably the biggest mistake. But one mistake often overlooked was Hitler declaring war on the U.S. At the time Roosevelt was looking to fight Japan only. But after Hitlers declaration they decided that the Nazis were an equal threat. Shortly after Midway the War Department decided that more resources and materials should be sent to England. Plus the Germans stopped attacking the RAF airfields just days before the RAF were to be completely overpowered. Its these little decisions that completely changed the outcome. Eventually the RAF got more Spitfires,fuel, pilots and ammo and were the first to use RADAR effectively. Combined with the daylight bombing raids the Nazis were outmatched.
      ConzS
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #76: Dec 05, 2018 01:50:51 pm
      Great reading this thread and reminded me of why I loved history so much in school. Will give some of the texts mentioned a read.
      molbys belly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #77: Dec 06, 2018 07:04:18 pm
      Both sides funded by the same people.  They don't tell you that in history class
      waltonl4
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #78: Dec 07, 2018 09:57:01 pm
      Both sides funded by the same people.  They don't tell you that in history class

      WTF is that supposed to mean "sides" it wasn't a f***in football match. Why don't you educate us.
       We were at the limit of our capabilities and the USA found many ways to help us before actually entering the War.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #79: Dec 08, 2018 07:42:55 pm
      WTF is that supposed to mean "sides" it wasn't a f***in football match. Why don't you educate us.
       We were at the limit of our capabilities and the USA found many ways to help us before actually entering the War.

      The Yanks weren't exactly welcomed with open arms in Liverpool when the war was on.My recollection is they only got involved when they had to.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #80: Dec 08, 2018 07:46:49 pm
      Both sides funded by the same people.  They don't tell you that in history class

      Who are the 'same people'. Come on pal, don't be shy.
      RedWilly
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #81: Dec 09, 2018 04:13:24 am
      Barbarossa was probably the biggest mistake. But one mistake often overlooked was Hitler declaring war on the U.S. At the time Roosevelt was looking to fight Japan only. But after Hitlers declaration they decided that the Nazis were an equal threat. Shortly after Midway the War Department decided that more resources and materials should be sent to England. Plus the Germans stopped attacking the RAF airfields just days before the RAF were to be completely overpowered. Its these little decisions that completely changed the outcome. Eventually the RAF got more Spitfires,fuel, pilots and ammo and were the first to use RADAR effectively. Combined with the daylight bombing raids the Nazis were outmatched.

      Just read up about this, I had always assumed that the US entered the war as a response to Pearl Harbour but didn’t realize that Hitler was the one to formally declare war on the US, which basically gave Roosevelt a free hand to enter the European war.

      It’s a bit mad to think of the sheer scale of US influence on the 20th century, declaring war on them seems like lunacy in hindsight!
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #82: Dec 09, 2018 06:44:35 am
      Who are the 'same people'. Come on pal, don't be shy.

      Does it involve tin foil ?
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #83: Dec 10, 2018 06:51:13 pm
      Just read up about this, I had always assumed that the US entered the war as a response to Pearl Harbour but didn’t realize that Hitler was the one to formally declare war on the US, which basically gave Roosevelt a free hand to enter the European war.

      It’s a bit mad to think of the sheer scale of US influence on the 20th century, declaring war on them seems like lunacy in hindsight!

      We weren't exactly a military power. The Army was smaller than Belgiums army.  In 1940 the combined US military was 460,000 men. In 1945 it was12 Million.
      Our main force was the Navy because we are bordered by the Pacific and Atlantic it was necessary.  But we really had no sizeable Army. We had good Cavalry units which were starting to study the armored warfare of men like Rommel and Guderian. Other than that our best weapon was Industry. We could instantly change from peacetime to wartime economy. We were self reliant for Oil,steel,copper,brass etc... and had the manpower to meet the needs for a 2 front war.
      « Last Edit: Dec 10, 2018 07:01:01 pm by YANK_LFC_FAN »
      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #84: Dec 13, 2018 08:49:32 pm
      We weren't exactly a military power. The Army was smaller than Belgiums army.  In 1940 the combined US military was 460,000 men. In 1945 it was12 Million.
      Our main force was the Navy because we are bordered by the Pacific and Atlantic it was necessary.  But we really had no sizeable Army. We had good Cavalry units which were starting to study the armored warfare of men like Rommel and Guderian. Other than that our best weapon was Industry. We could instantly change from peacetime to wartime economy. We were self reliant for Oil,steel,copper,brass etc... and had the manpower to meet the needs for a 2 front war.

      Indeed the industrial capacity of the United states was critical to the outcome of the War. The convoys coming over from the US were vital to the British war front. Bringing over food, raw materials etc. German U boats had great success in sinking millions of tons of shipping. Once they had a foothold in France they extended their range and very nearly tipped the balance of the War.

      Strangely enough during World War 1 German U boats observed " prise rules" in that they actually surfaced, giving passengers and crews a chance to get off the ship.The practice probably goes back to the days of pirates etc. Was soon abandoned tho.

      The convoys from the US weren't free by the way. Britain owed the US many millions at the end of the War in so called War Loans, over £20 billion. But still worth it, but very many lost their lives helping the War effort. And we owe them a huge debt which we can never repay.
      waltonl4
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #85: Dec 13, 2018 09:11:11 pm
      The Yanks weren't exactly welcomed with open arms in Liverpool when the war was on.My recollection is they only got involved when they had to.

      we are talking about how they found ways of supplying us without the consent of congress. Lend lease totalled something like $30 billion they may not have had feet on the ground but Roosevelt tried hard to support us .
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #86: Dec 14, 2018 01:49:20 pm
      The Yanks weren't exactly welcomed with open arms in Liverpool when the war was on.My recollection is they only got involved when they had to.

      I cant speak to what the people of Liverpool thought of the "Yanks". But to say we "only got involved when we had to" is not entirely correct. In our Congress we had 2 sides. "Isolationist" and realist.  The main argument against that war was it was "Europes problem". We lost a generation of our boys in WW1 fighting in war which was, lets be honest, started and controlled by Europes Royalty. Infighting between Europes Royal families that didnt send their sons into the trenches, but ordered the poor working classes to die for them to keep their monarchies.  If you know anything about us we dont do well with Monarchies.  That was still very fresh in the minds of our politicians.  Many who fought in WW1 wanted us out of Europe.  But by the early 20th century Britain was an ally. If your statement was true why did we decide to dedicate most of our efforts in Europe and not the Pacific?  We retooled a massive amount of industrial production to war materials, to send too the British before Pearl Harbor.

      Even after Pearl Harbor we didnt have to get involved. Japan wasn't capable of invading the US. Midway showed that. German had no way of invading us. They had no carriers or any naval threat that could force us to capitulate. They couldnt blockade us. Surround us or land any force.
      So what was the reason as you stated that we "had to get involved"?

      Even today its unlikely we could be invaded.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #87: Dec 14, 2018 02:45:40 pm
      I would recommend William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Takes the reader through from the birth of the Third Reich to the final death throes of the most despicable regime in history.

      Drama and intrigue on every page. Can open it blindly and pick up on a piece of history, a classic history of Nazism and the most definitive account of that time period.

      I have the book, had it for years and not read it yet, but I will get round to it soon!

      Page 1350..

      Hamburg Radio 1st May 1945. To the solemn sound of Bruckner's Seventh symphony....roll of drums and the announcer spoke..

      " Our Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler,fighting to the last breath against Bolshevism, fell for Germany this afternoon in his operational Headquarters in the Reich Chancellery, Berlin.  On April 30th the Fuehrer appointed Grand Admiral Doenitz as his successor."

      The B***ard is dead and may he rot in hell....if there is a hell that is...

      n.b. Hitler actually died on the 30th April 1945..

      And omg... spoilers?!?!? :P
      Harrisimo
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #88: Dec 14, 2018 08:17:36 pm
      There might have been some hostility to the Americans coming over here, but only in a kind of jealousy or annoyance at the way they carry on . Most Americans are self confident etc. Flashy types would never go down very well with the down to earth British Tommy.

      From a pure military stand point they were vital to the winning of both World Wars. Despite the odd annoyance I doubt there was one single person in the UK that didn't welcome the USA into the War.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #89: Dec 18, 2018 10:18:20 pm
      Anyone familiar with the Battle of Castle Itter?

      It is a fascinating story and really shows the Insanity of the final days of the Third Reich.

      Castle Itter was used as a prison by the German to house top level French politicians and public figures. A prisoner managed to leave the castle to find an American unit and ask for help. Eventually allied command agreed that these men should be rescued in order to help the French reconstruction amd reestablish a working government.  But, the main force was stopped by an artillery strike and only a small group of 14 men and 3 Shermans made it to the castle. The US commander was then approached by a German army officer who offered his men to help free the prisoners. Which they did. The next day the US commander led a force of American and GERMAN soldiers against a group of 150 Waffen SS sent to capture the castle and kill the prisoners. The defenders fought off the SS and held the castle. Just an absolutely, amazing story.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #90: Dec 20, 2018 07:45:45 am
      I cant speak to what the people of Liverpool thought of the "Yanks". But to say we "only got involved when we had to" is not entirely correct. In our Congress we had 2 sides. "Isolationist" and realist.  The main argument against that war was it was "Europes problem". We lost a generation of our boys in WW1 fighting in war which was, lets be honest, started and controlled by Europes Royalty. Infighting between Europes Royal families that didnt send their sons into the trenches, but ordered the poor working classes to die for them to keep their monarchies.  If you know anything about us we dont do well with Monarchies.  That was still very fresh in the minds of our politicians.  Many who fought in WW1 wanted us out of Europe.  But by the early 20th century Britain was an ally. If your statement was true why did we decide to dedicate most of our efforts in Europe and not the Pacific?  We retooled a massive amount of industrial production to war materials, to send too the British before Pearl Harbor.

      Even after Pearl Harbor we didnt have to get involved. Japan wasn't capable of invading the US. Midway showed that. German had no way of invading us. They had no carriers or any naval threat that could force us to capitulate. They couldnt blockade us. Surround us or land any force.
      So what was the reason as you stated that we "had to get involved"?

      Even today its unlikely we could be invaded.

      When I say the Yanks were not exactly welcome in Liverpool in the 2nd world war I refer to the battles outside the Eagle& Child pub in page Moss  and down in Lime Street.There was total animosity towards the American forces who were stationed in Burtonwood near Warrington.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #91: Dec 29, 2018 04:56:59 am
      When I say the Yanks were not exactly welcome in Liverpool in the 2nd world war I refer to the battles outside the Eagle& Child pub in page Moss  and down in Lime Street.There was total animosity towards the American forces who were stationed in Burtonwood near Warrington.
      Well, lets be fair. If you take thousands of 18-24 yr old men who are sitting around in a foreign country, many who have never been out of the State they lived in. Who are bored and essentially waiting to die for the most part. Then add alcohol, testosterone and probably some patriotism. Shits going down! If roles were reversed im sure a lot of your boys would be tearing up a few bars over here. Its no different than the English Hooligans who travel to France or Germany for the Euros or WC. You get tribal and aggro when your a soldier far from home.
      Billy1
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      Re: WW2 History
      Reply #92: Dec 29, 2018 08:13:43 am
      Well, lets be fair. If you take thousands of 18-24 yr old men who are sitting around in a foreign country, many who have never been out of the State they lived in. Who are bored and essentially waiting to die for the most part. Then add alcohol, testosterone and probably some patriotism. Shits going down! If roles were reversed im sure a lot of your boys would be tearing up a few bars over here. Its no different than the English Hooligans who travel to France or Germany for the Euros or WC. You get tribal and aggro when your a soldier far from home.

      I am just telling things as I recall them happening in the Page Moss area where I was a young lad during the second world war.I still seem to recall the issues getting front page coverage in the Liverpool Echo.

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