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      World Cup or Champions League?

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      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      World Cup or Champions League?
      May 27, 2018 01:10:21 am
      I had this argument with a guy I know. It started out as who was better Messi or Maradonna.  His main point was Messi never won the WC. But I argued that winning the UCL is harder. Thus Messi doesn't NEED the WC to be considered the greatest. Of course Ronaldo should also be considered in order of fairness, but he's such a tw*t I cant be bothered.

      Am I off on this or has the CL equaled or surpassed the WC in terms of importance?  I think its harder to win the CL than a WC.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #1: May 27, 2018 01:30:00 am
      I had this argument with a guy I know. It started out as who was better Messi or Maradonna.  His main point was Messi never won the WC. But I argued that winning the UCL is harder. Thus Messi doesn't NEED the WC to be considered the greatest. Of course Ronaldo should also be considered in order of fairness, but he's such a tw*t I cant be bothered.

      Am I off on this or has the CL equaled or surpassed the WC in terms of importance?  I think its harder to win the CL than a WC.

      What you win is irrelevant IMO. Gerrard is one of the greatest midfielders and players to ever play in the Premier League but he never won it, where as the likes of Darren Fletcher and Fabian Delph have. Salah will never win the World Cup, he knows it, we know it and the football world knows it, but it doesn't make him any less of a player than Messi/Ronaldo this year.

      To win a World Cup, Champions League and anything really, it's about the team and luck. Has nothing to do with individual "brilliance"or whatever. Ronaldo, head and shoulders Madrid's best player this season, Ballon d'Or winner and supposedly the greatest of all time...done f**k all in the final against 19 year old TAA, scored none and assisted none. Didn't influence the final of the Euro's because he went off injured.

      I hate this tag of players like Messi having to win the World Cup to be considered the greatest of all time, because the rest of his team aren't of the quality to win the World Cup. An individual can be a fantastic player but he can't do it all on his own, he needs team mates who are of the ability to allow him to flourish and perform at a level to influence the outcome.

      This season Salah has been just as good as Messi and Ronaldo for example, so why does he need to win the Champions League to prove that? He's proved it over the course of a season, regardless of silverware he's hit the same figures and done it against much tougher opposition than what the other 2 have. People get too caught up in players having to win the World Cup or Champions League to apparently prove how good they are...bollocks, it's proved over a campaign.

      king kenny
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #2: May 27, 2018 02:09:10 am
      For me Messi has to win the world Cup.  To be considered in my eyes the greatest.  Argentina have good players they definitely have the tools to win it  and if he is the greatest above Maradona then he has to win.  Messi has more talent than Maradonna in my opinion but to be the greatest ever, one has to have more than talent. 
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #3: May 27, 2018 12:01:42 pm
      CL is a higher standard than the world cup now end of
      adammac
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #4: May 27, 2018 06:10:14 pm
      Tougher to win the World Cup based on the fact it is happens ever 4 years so a player has average 3 or 4 chances to win the competition where the UCL is ever year but the standard of play in the UCL is higher. Messi debate as far as national team is he won nothing with national team always losing in finals.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #5: May 27, 2018 07:35:23 pm
      I had this argument with a guy I know. It started out as who was better Messi or Maradonna.  His main point was Messi never won the WC. But I argued that winning the UCL is harder. Thus Messi doesn't NEED the WC to be considered the greatest. Of course Ronaldo should also be considered in order of fairness, but he's such a tw*t I cant be bothered.

      Am I off on this or has the CL equaled or surpassed the WC in terms of importance?  I think its harder to win the CL than a WC.

      Depends how you feel about international football?

      I care more about Liverpool than England, so the European Cup means more to me.

      I'll still watch the World Cup as it's something to watch in the summer rather than dying of boredom trying to deal with fuckwits getting excited about Wimbledon!! Won't bother who wins it.

      Could be said the world cup might be harder as it's about 7 or 8 games you have to play in a short period of time.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #6: May 28, 2018 07:20:19 pm

      I'll still watch the World Cup as it's something to watch in the summer rather than dying of boredom trying to deal with fuckwits getting excited about Wimbledon!! Won't bother who wins it.



      There's always England's cricketers as well.

      Actually after recent days, scratch that.
      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #7: May 31, 2018 01:18:26 pm
      Ive noticed in the past 5 years the popularity of Football has been going up and up here. The WC always brings out the fair weather supporters and I have to say we have great Team USA supporters. But, the hardcore supporters follow European football and the CL.  I think the talent is better, i think its harder than a WC and honestly I think Messi and Ronaldo are better than Maradonna and the GOAT debate will come down to them. Its an insane coincidence that they are both modern day players.
      « Last Edit: May 31, 2018 02:44:01 pm by YANK_LFC_FAN »
      heimdall
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #8: May 31, 2018 01:23:19 pm
      Much much harder to win the World Cup if you are not Brazilian, French or German. Firstly its only every 4 years and secondly you play with players who you are quite unused to whereas your club team mates you should have a really good bond and understanding with.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #9: Jun 04, 2018 02:29:39 pm
      The WC is more prestigious than the European Cup, given that it's every 4 years, so it carries more weight.

      Also, international football is all about pride and honour in your country's shirt, there's not much money at stake. And unlike club football, you can't just transfer from one country to the next if your country is not successful. All that means the rewards for winning are greater than at club level.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #10: Jun 04, 2018 06:49:09 pm
      The WC is more prestigious than the European Cup, given that it's every 4 years, so it carries more weight.

      Also, international football is all about pride and honour in your country's shirt, there's not much money at stake. And unlike club football, you can't just transfer from one country to the next if your country is not successful. All that means the rewards for winning are greater than at club level.

      Quality at cl is much higher, standard of international football is largely abject these days, when was the last good major international tournament
      RedPuppy
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #11: Jun 04, 2018 10:29:19 pm
      Pele never won the Champions League, daft comparison to prove a point.
      waltonl4
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #12: Jun 05, 2018 09:40:59 am
      wonder why they haven't had a competition playing the World Cup winners against the World Club comp winners ......
      adammac
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #13: Jun 05, 2018 03:17:58 pm
      when was the last good major international tournament

      What defines a "good" international tourney?
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #14: Jun 05, 2018 03:31:51 pm
      What defines a "good" international tourney?

      Quality of football and games
      adammac
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #15: Jun 05, 2018 03:58:21 pm
      I don't believe standard of international football changed too much over the last 20 years. The best nations still made up of players who are playing for the best clubs in the world and it entertaining to watch. I always looked at it as club football standard has gotten better more so than international football quality dropped.
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #16: Jun 05, 2018 06:53:46 pm
      What defines a "good" international tourney?

      None of our lads getting injured!!
      lfc across the water
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #17: Jun 05, 2018 10:58:07 pm
      Quote from FATKOPITE10
      Quality at cl is much higher, standard of international football is largely abject these days, when was the last good major international tournament

      The last Euros, and the last WC were great tournaments, full of goals, surprise results, and shock early eliminations.

      The European Cup is very predictable until the quarter finals, sometimes the semis. While for most clubs involved, it's less about competition, and more a cash cow.
      Kopite78
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #18: Jun 06, 2018 01:09:58 pm
      wonder why they haven't had a competition playing the World Cup winners against the World Club comp winners ......

      Cause it would be another irrelevant game?

      What happens say Argentina win the world cup and Barca win the world club cup thingy
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #19: Jun 06, 2018 01:30:31 pm
      The last Euros, and the last WC were great tournaments, full of goals, surprise results, and shock early eliminations.

      The European Cup is very predictable until the quarter finals, sometimes the semis. While for most clubs involved, it's less about competition, and more a cash cow.

      No they weren't,  once it got to the knockout stages the quality dipped quite a bit.
      chats
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #20: Jun 07, 2018 06:19:03 am
      The last Euros, and the last WC were great tournaments, full of goals, surprise results, and shock early eliminations.

      Thought the last Euros was one of the worst tournaments I've ever watched. Three qualifying from a group killed it completely, the winners didn't even win a group game!
      lfc across the water
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #21: Jun 07, 2018 05:01:46 pm
      Neither did Italy in WC 1982 when only two qualified from a group.

      Three qualifying from a group, means every group game has something at stake. Under the old system, there were too many dead rubbers come the last game. You even get it in the European Cup group stage now, if a group is done and dusted after just 4 games.

      Back in WC 90, England, Holland, Ireland and Egypt were in a group. It was the tightest group in the tournament's history, and nothing was decided until the last minute of the last game. That's how it's supposed to be.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #22: Jun 07, 2018 05:07:58 pm
      48 teams in the next wc will make things even worse
      lfc across the water
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #23: Jun 10, 2018 08:32:14 am
      No it won't.

      2 group games, 4 knockout rounds and a final, is 7 games. The same as now. The groups will be of 3 teams, top 2 qualify for the knockout rounds. There will be no draws in the group, penalties will decide them if necessary.

      There are 26 places already confirmed in next year's European Cup, as UEFA want the same teams from the same countries there every year, playing the same format. FIFA want to grow the game, so unless you're Gibraltar standard, every nation has the opportunity to qualify for the World Cup and experience the buzz of it for themselves. More countries = more games = more fans = more money.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #24: Jun 10, 2018 12:56:09 pm
      No it won't.

      2 group games, 4 knockout rounds and a final, is 7 games. The same as now. The groups will be of 3 teams, top 2 qualify for the knockout rounds. There will be no draws in the group, penalties will decide them if necessary.

      There are 26 places already confirmed in next year's European Cup, as UEFA want the same teams from the same countries there every year, playing the same format. FIFA want to grow the game, so unless you're Gibraltar standard, every nation has the opportunity to qualify for the World Cup and experience the buzz of it for themselves. More countries = more games = more fans = more money.

      Quality will be even worse
      RedWilly
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #25: Jun 17, 2018 10:00:36 am
      No it won't.

      2 group games, 4 knockout rounds and a final, is 7 games. The same as now. The groups will be of 3 teams, top 2 qualify for the knockout rounds. There will be no draws in the group, penalties will decide them if necessary.

      There are 26 places already confirmed in next year's European Cup, as UEFA want the same teams from the same countries there every year, playing the same format. FIFA want to grow the game, so unless you're Gibraltar standard, every nation has the opportunity to qualify for the World Cup and experience the buzz of it for themselves. More countries = more games = more fans = more money.

      You really have a problem accepting others opinions don’t you?
      lottie1234
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #26: Jun 21, 2018 09:42:54 am
      WC is harder to win
      lottie1234
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #27: Jun 21, 2018 09:43:39 am
      WC is harder to win.

      World Cup only comes round every 4 years and you can't choose your teammates however good you are.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #28: Jun 21, 2018 03:00:57 pm
      This tournament is well on it's way to settling the argument., largely absolutely dire
      lfc across the water
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #29: Jun 22, 2018 02:57:10 pm
      No goalless draws yet.
      Competitive games.
      Shock results.

      Some stars on the brink of elimination after just one week of competition. You don't get that in the European Cup. All the big sides walk through easy groups, and sometimes the knockout rounds. At the World Cup, one loss and you could be only trying again 4 years later.
      mrgowww
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #30: Jul 16, 2018 09:38:43 am
      For me Messi has to win the world Cup.  To be considered in my eyes the greatest.  Argentina have good players they definitely have the tools to win it  and if he is the greatest above Maradona then he has to win.  Messi has more talent than Maradonna in my opinion but to be the greatest ever, one has to have more than talent.

      This exact thought....
      JD
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #31: Jul 17, 2018 10:44:50 pm
      Am I off on this or has the CL equaled or surpassed the WC in terms of importance?  I think its harder to win the CL than a WC.

      Thread I'd missed.

      No doubt about it, harder to win the World Cup as a player.  For a kick off it's only once every 4 years.  And you've got to be fit in that 6 or 7 week period out of every 4 years.  Champions League for the likes of Messi and he could enjoy a lengthy spell on the sidelines, rock up in the final and bang in a hat-trick.

      Also Champions League knockouts are all played over two legs - significantly reduces the ability for a shock result like at the World Cup.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #32: Jul 18, 2018 07:32:26 pm
      For all it's faults and disappointments over the years (especially South Africa), this year's World Cup really was fantastic and a fresh reminder that it is the greatest competition in football. Loved every day of it and I'll look back fondly on it.
      vulcan_red
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #33: Jul 23, 2018 05:26:53 am
      Winning the Champions League is solely restricted to the extremely wealthy clubs. Investment is everything in that competition, without it you may as well not bother. This last World Cup was exciting because there weren't nay clear favourites. It has ignited my interest in this competition again, particularly given the CL is becoming so stale.

      As for the old Messi V Maradona. Well if you play with the Barcelona team from 2009 onwards then you pretty much have everything laid on for you. His efficiency is very good. To say he had more talent than Maradona is not true, he doesn't. He has centipede legs, I have watched them both and El Pibe is in a different league ultimately. They brought him into win at Napoli and he dd it twice.  Remarkable given the teams in the Serie A then. He had to win the World Cup .. he did. He had an aura that you never doubted he would be decisive in the game. HIs repertoire of skills is phenomenal.  Messi has failed to score in a WC knockout match same with Ronaldo. Let that sink in. 
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #34: Jul 23, 2018 02:08:32 pm
      lfc across the water
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      Re: World Cup or Champions League?
      Reply #35: Jul 23, 2018 02:29:18 pm
      26 of the 32 group stage spots are already decided, before the current qualifiers. But it's not just the extremely wealthy who benefit from it. For some clubs from the weaker leagues, just getting to the group phase is the goal in itself. The Nicosias, the Borisovs, the Ludogorets.

      The World Cup may not be the same quality, but it still remains the most revered competition in the world, where pride and honour is at stake, and financial rewards for players are modest. Even in today's 24/7 commercial world, there is still no sponsorship logos permitted on an international shirt during a competitive game. And nobody notices. International football is one of those rare things, where cash isn't king.

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