Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Leicester [Premier League] Wed 30th Jan @ 8:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 22nd of January and on this date LFC's match record is P22 W9 D4 L9

      Fabinho Player Thread

      Read 17528 times
      0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,602 posts | 1876 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #390: Nov 03, 2018 11:53:43 pm
      Couldn't keep up with the intensity of the game tonight. I thought he had a poor game maybe because of the lack of fitness or he just can't keep up with the pace of Torreira, Ozil and Mkhitaryan. Some sloppy passes and almost got himself sent off.

      Still early days but I have doubts if he will be able to cope with the intensity of this league.

      The way I look at it is; Lucas was slower, but made up for it with great positioning and game intelligence, both of which can be taught (one more than the other), so I still have high hopes for him.

      I think he needs more time to adjust, and he needs to curb his tendency to dive in, but I reckon some of that is down to a desire to prove himself.
      If he calms down a bit, and listens to Klopp, he'll be fine and will play a pretty big part in our season.

      I think he's probably a bit of an upgrade on Can, who he was bought to replace, but he didn't have a good day today.
      I'm sure he'll have plenty of good days in the future though.
      Robby The Z
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,974 posts | 570 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #391: Nov 03, 2018 11:56:36 pm
      The way I look at it is; Lucas was slower, but made up for it with great positioning and game intelligence, both of which can be taught (one more than the other), so I still have high hopes for him.

      I think he needs more time to adjust, and he needs to curb his tendency to dive in, but I reckon some of that is down to a desire to prove himself.
      If he calms down a bit, and listens to Klopp, he'll be fine and will play a pretty big part in our season.

      I think he's probably a bit of an upgrade on Can, who he was bought to replace, but he didn't have a good day today.
      I'm sure he'll have plenty of good days in the future though.

      Fair analysis and criticisms. It's also not as if he didn't have some decent moments as well, but agree with the above. Henderson and Keita supposed to be in full training Monday, but I doubt Klopp will use either of them vs. Red Star, so Fabinho probably is in from the start again midweek.
      Arab Scouse
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,154 posts | 478 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #392: Nov 03, 2018 11:57:23 pm
      The way I look at it is; Lucas was slower, but made up for it with great positioning and game intelligence, both of which can be taught (one more than the other), so I still have high hopes for him.

      I think he needs more time to adjust, and he needs to curb his tendency to dive in, but I reckon some of that is down to a desire to prove himself.
      If he calms down a bit, and listens to Klopp, he'll be fine and will play a pretty big part in our season.

      I think he's probably a bit of an upgrade on Can, who he was bought to replace, but he didn't have a good day today.
      I'm sure he'll have plenty of good days in the future though.

      I hope so. against Red Star he looked really decent, but that's against Red star. I'm just worried about his fitness, so hopefully he just needs more time to get it up and running so he can cope with the intensity of the league and not turn into another Nuri Sahin.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,602 posts | 1876 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #393: Nov 04, 2018 12:00:27 am
      I hope so. against Red Star he looked really decent, but that's against Red star. I'm just worried about his fitness, so hopefully he just needs more time to get it up and running so he can cope with the intensity of the league and not turn into another Nuri Sahin.

      I don't think it's his fitness mate, I think it's his speed over short distances, from a standing start.
      He's not quick off the mark, and I think against top teams playing a high tempo, that's a real weakness.
      Positioning will help that, but so will learning the league, and knowing when to be aggressive and when to step back.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,602 posts | 1876 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #394: Nov 04, 2018 12:04:21 am
      Fair analysis and criticisms. It's also not as if he didn't have some decent moments as well, but agree with the above. Henderson and Keita supposed to be in full training Monday, but I doubt Klopp will use either of them vs. Red Star, so Fabinho probably is in from the start again midweek.

      Some think that if you like Henderson, you dislike Fabinho.
      Mostly because of the narrative they try to create where Fabinho is Hendersons replacement, rather than the replacement for Can that he really is.

      I don't see what Fabinho has to do with Henderson, or vice versa.
      If one is better than the other, he'll play, and that strengthens the team, so it's all good.

      Red Star away are going to really come at us at the start again, but I still think it would be a good game for Fabinho to play.
      He's had less than half a season here, so he's still getting used to the other lads.
      Game time will help with that.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,706 posts | 2649 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #395: Nov 04, 2018 12:08:46 am
      I don't think it's his fitness mate, I think it's his speed over short distances, from a standing start.
      He's not quick off the mark, and I think against top teams playing a high tempo, that's a real weakness.
      Positioning will help that, but so will learning the league, and knowing when to be aggressive and when to step back.

      No issues with his speed off the mark, you don’t play full back if that is that is the case.

      He was easily played past today with 1-2’s some of which because Emery the clever f**ker that he is overloaded in midfield with both full backs pushed up and on occasions because he wasn’t sure of exactly what he should be doing.

      He will be fine as this game showed Klopp is occasionally done by opposition managers just as much as the players.



      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,602 posts | 1876 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #396: Nov 04, 2018 12:15:50 am
      No issues with his speed off the mark, you don’t play full back if that is that is the case.

      He was easily played past today with 1-2’s some of which because Emery the clever f**ker that he is overloaded in midfield with both full backs pushed up and on occasions because he wasn’t sure of exactly what he should be doing.

      Have you seen him play full back?
      I have, and he's slow off the mark there as well, although it's less noticeable because, for Brazil, he tends to play as a tucked in fullback making almost a 3rd CB rather than one who is galloping forwards all the time like Robertson or TAA.
      Presumably, that's why he was switched to DM at Monaco.
      He's OK once he gets up to speed, but he's slow off the mark, and on the turn, so he needs to make up for that by being better at positioning.
      He'll get there though, I'm pretty sure of that, because he's a good footballer.

      It was less that Emery overloaded midfield, and more that 2 of 3 CM and a couple of others had poor games.

      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,706 posts | 2649 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #397: Nov 04, 2018 12:31:21 am
      Have you seen him play full back?
      I have, and he's slow off the mark there as well, although it's less noticeable because, for Brazil, he tends to play as a tucked in fullback making almost a 3rd CB rather than one who is galloping forwards all the time like Robertson or TAA.
      Presumably, that's why he was switched to DM at Monaco.
      He's OK once he gets up to speed, but he's slow off the mark, and on the turn, so he needs to make up for that by being better at positioning.
      He'll get there though, I'm pretty sure of that, because he's a good footballer.

      It was less that Emery overloaded midfield, and more that 2 of 3 CM and a couple of others had poor games.



      Sometimes you have to give credit to the opposition and Emery did a number on us like he has previously.

      But no doubt the midfield combination was poor today.

      PS not really seen him as a full back but saw him as a DM for Monaco when they beat City in CL. Was no slouch on that occasion.

      7-King Kenny-7
      • Lives on Sesame Street
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 38,025 posts | 2804 
      • You'll Never Walk Alone!
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #398: Nov 04, 2018 04:38:50 am
      Don’t think he was as bad as some are making out he was, it was far from a stand out performance but he put in some good tackles and the slow off the mark thing is a bit of an exaggeration. Think his build just makes him look slower than he is.
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,086 posts | 1096 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #399: Nov 04, 2018 07:22:19 am
      I don't think it's his fitness mate, I think it's his speed over short distances, from a standing start.
      He's not quick off the mark, and I think against top teams playing a high tempo, that's a real weakness.
      Positioning will help that, but so will learning the league, and knowing when to be aggressive and when to step back.

      Yep, and I’d say Lucas was much quicker over 5-10 yards. He was a real weak link yesterday. Both on and off the ball. He caught in possession a couple of tunes early and then was hearing footsteps for the rest of the game which affected his passing which was poor. Hendo gets criticised for backwards passes and bounce passes all the time but Fabinho did just that, often helping their press by giving a team mate a poor pass with arsenal players in close proximity. I wouldn’t play him in the next big EPL game and thought lallana should have been on at half-time. Let him grow in the European games and at home in the epl against the lesser sides.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,533 posts | 1506 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #400: Nov 04, 2018 07:46:22 am
      Yep, and I’d say Lucas was much quicker over 5-10 yards. He was a real weak link yesterday. Both on and off the ball. He caught in possession a couple of tunes early and then was hearing footsteps for the rest of the game which affected his passing which was poor. Hendo gets criticised for backwards passes and bounce passes all the time but Fabinho did just that, often helping their press by giving a team mate a poor pass with arsenal players in close proximity. I wouldn’t play him in the next big EPL game and thought lallana should have been on at half-time. Let him grow in the European games and at home in the epl against the lesser sides.

      I think some are being overly harsh on him, the entire midfield plus TAA and Bobby had poor games today. Add to that that Mo still hasn't found his scoring boots or mojo and we were actually lucky to escape with a point.
      In hindsight we should have played a more attacking midfield with Shaq helping the forwards, not Klopp’s finest hour tactically.
      bazspeedman
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,792 posts | 1022 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #401: Nov 04, 2018 09:17:49 am
      Give him time there's a lot more to come from Fabinho but he needs a pacy midfielder like Keita next to him.
      waltonl4
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 25,088 posts | 3029 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #402: Nov 04, 2018 10:04:13 am
      I think some are being overly harsh on him, the entire midfield plus TAA and Bobby had poor games today. Add to that that Mo still hasn't found his scoring boots or mojo and we were actually lucky to escape with a point.
      In hindsight we should have played a more attacking midfield with Shaq helping the forwards, not Klopp’s finest hour tactically.

      how is Klopp responsible for a player giving the ball away with sloppy passing and losing it in soft tackles if this had been Henderson the usual mob would be baying for his blood.
      He is ok if he has space in front of him and the other team don't press him but he looked terrible yesterday.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,706 posts | 2649 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #403: Nov 04, 2018 10:20:02 am
      Fab was left out to dry by Milner and Gini.
      By going with a 433 he had acres of space to cover without the compactness from the other 2 midfielders.
      Klopp hinted at this in his post match presser.

      In hindsight we should have gone with the double pivot of a 4231.
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,546 posts | 182 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #404: Nov 04, 2018 11:25:49 am
      Like I said previously people to quick to Judge when he played against two very poor midfields time to Judge him against better sides and he failed the test . Hendo would have played this game if fit no question
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,602 posts | 1876 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #405: Nov 04, 2018 12:07:08 pm
      Like I said previously people to quick to Judge when he played against two very poor midfields time to Judge him against better sides and he failed the test . Hendo would have played this game if fit no question

      I think "failed the test" is a bit harsh.

      He wasn't awful.
      I think his game yesterday is best described as mediocre, for me.
      FATKOPITE10
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 9,155 posts | 1447 
      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #406: Nov 04, 2018 12:10:15 pm
      I think some are being overly harsh on him, the entire midfield plus TAA and Bobby had poor games today. Add to that that Mo still hasn't found his scoring boots or mojo and we were actually lucky to escape with a point.
      In hindsight we should have played a more attacking midfield with Shaq helping the forwards, not Klopp’s finest hour tactically.

      Luck ? Overall arsenal controlled the game but remember we hit the post twice and had a good goal disallowed
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,533 posts | 1506 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #407: Nov 04, 2018 12:43:59 pm
      how is Klopp responsible for a player giving the ball away with sloppy passing and losing it in soft tackles if this had been Henderson the usual mob would be baying for his blood.
      He is ok if he has space in front of him and the other team don't press him but he looked terrible yesterday.

      When did I say Klopp was responsible for a players poor performance? What he is responsible for is replacing a player playing poorly and tweaking his system to counter the other team
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,533 posts | 1506 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #408: Nov 04, 2018 12:46:07 pm
      Luck ? Overall arsenal controlled the game but remember we hit the post twice and had a good goal disallowed

      Both teams came close to scoring on multiple occasions but Arsenal had more control in that game so yes based on the performance I'm happy with the point.
      bmck
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 5,588 posts | 743 
      • YNWA
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #409: Nov 04, 2018 01:11:24 pm
      Some players take longer to settle. The Robbo situation gives me plenty of hope for Fab to push on a ways still.
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,546 posts | 182 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #410: Nov 04, 2018 01:39:40 pm
      I think "failed the test" is a bit harsh.

      He wasn't awful.
      I think his game yesterday is best described as mediocre, for me.
      Maybe harsh but it's true not ready yet to play in a game of that magnitude. Not saying he won't make it but maybe to early at the moment
      LondonRed83
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 7,918 posts | 846 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #411: Nov 04, 2018 02:13:44 pm
      He wasn’t great but deffo not sh*t. I really rate him and will turn out to be a quality player for us
      vulcan_red
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,515 posts | 186 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #412: Nov 04, 2018 10:25:31 pm
      He wasn't that bad, I think his ability to hold the ball when under extreme pressure looks good. I think he'll be like Gini in that respect. He needs more time to get match fit. Playing time will definitely help the link up play aspect, he needs to get and understanding of his team mates. I did not think he was bad yesterday, I think at the start of the match we were pretty sloppy. I put that down to the fact we are playing Arsenal away with an eye on the CL on Tuesday. Fabinho will turn out to be top notch if he is fortunate to go without injury for a prolonged period.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,602 posts | 1876 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #413: Nov 05, 2018 03:21:55 pm
      Fab was left out to dry by Milner and Gini.
      By going with a 433 he had acres of space to cover without the compactness from the other 2 midfielders.
      Klopp hinted at this in his post match presser.

      In hindsight we should have gone with the double pivot of a 4231.

      So it's Milner and Wijnaldums fault he had a poor-ish game?

      The same 2 players who have no problems with "being compact" when Henderson plays?

      I see other posters are trying to blame Klopp as well.

      This is f**king ridiculous.
      He had (at best) a mediocre game.
      He'll have more in the future, and good games as well, hopefully more of the latter, that's the nature of football.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,706 posts | 2649 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #414: Nov 05, 2018 05:11:57 pm
      So it's Milner and Wijnaldums fault he had a poor-ish game?

      The same 2 players who have no problems with "being compact" when Henderson plays?

      I see other posters are trying to blame Klopp as well.

      This is f**king ridiculous.
      He had (at best) a mediocre game.
      He'll have more in the future, and good games as well, hopefully more of the latter, that's the nature of football.


      Midfield play as a unit so if it’s dysfunctional then the deepest player will be left exposed. Fairly obvious.

      And as for the assertion that we are always compact when Henderson plays. Hmm enough examples just this season shows that is nonsense.

      I didn’t say Fab was anything more than mediocre but the witch hunt was a bit ridiculous and if looked at objectively then imo he did ok defensively bearing in mind he had to plug so many holes because Gini went missing and Milner did his usual trick of moving out to the wing leaving too much space in midfield.
      Arsenal were very clever in pushing their full backs so we were always out manned in midfield.

      On the ball I agree he was not great.

      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 23,229 posts | 3184 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #415: Nov 05, 2018 05:41:09 pm
      Didn't have a great game. Neither did Milly or Gini.

      Eh...it happens. Much too small of a sample size to be considered anything other than a blip. I'm sure they will all come back with a vengeance. Good news is we have a large squad so if a player does have a downturn, we've got someone to step up now where we didn't in year's past.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,602 posts | 1876 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #416: Nov 05, 2018 05:56:21 pm
      Midfield play as a unit so if it’s dysfunctional then the deepest player will be left exposed. Fairly obvious.

      And as for the assertion that we are always compact when Henderson plays. Hmm enough examples just this season shows that is nonsense.

      I didn’t say Fab was anything more than mediocre but the witch hunt was a bit ridiculous and if looked at objectively then imo he did ok defensively bearing in mind he had to plug so many holes because Gini went missing and Milner did his usual trick of moving out to the wing leaving too much space in midfield.
      Arsenal were very clever in pushing their full backs so we were always out manned in midfield.

      On the ball I agree he was not great.

      We are much more compact when Henderson plays, for the simple reason that the 3 of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner have played together for much longer.
      Wijnaldum and Milner didn't "go missing", Fabinho followed the ball too much and was out of position, which I'm putting down to a bit of him being too keen, and not yet gelling with the other players.

      There's no witch hunt against Fabinho, unlike the real with hunt against Henderson.

      It's not a "trick" by Milner, that's part of his job in the system we play.
      I've explained before that width and creativity comes from the 2 FB's getting forwards, but of course people don't want to really understand how we play, they just want to moan.
      Milner played behind Robertson, Wijnaldum played behind (and slightly inside of) TAA, Milner and Robertson were supported by Mane, and Firmino dropped deep to provide cover in midfield for when Wijnaldum supported TAA. Fabinho's job was to hold the centre, in both the horizontal and vertical zones, and he failed to do it, and pushed forwards when he should have stayed back, failed to support the wider players, got bullied several times by Xhaka, and showed a worrying lack of pace.
      As things stand, I'd much rather see him play in front of Henderson in a staggered 3 (possession play) until he really gels with his teammates.
      Once he and the other lads get that understanding, I'm sure he'll be fine. It just takes a bit of time in systems as complex as Klopp's.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 13,706 posts | 2649 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #417: Nov 05, 2018 06:29:08 pm
      We are much more compact when Henderson plays, for the simple reason that the 3 of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner have played together for much longer.
      Wijnaldum and Milner didn't "go missing", Fabinho followed the ball too much and was out of position, which I'm putting down to a bit of him being too keen, and not yet gelling with the other players.

      There's no witch hunt against Fabinho, unlike the real with hunt against Henderson.

      It's not a "trick" by Milner, that's part of his job in the system we play.
      I've explained before that width and creativity comes from the 2 FB's getting forwards, but of course people don't want to really understand how we play, they just want to moan.
      Milner played behind Robertson, Wijnaldum played behind (and slightly inside of) TAA, Milner and Robertson were supported by Mane, and Firmino dropped deep to provide cover in midfield for when Wijnaldum supported TAA. Fabinho's job was to hold the centre, in both the horizontal and vertical zones, and he failed to do it, and pushed forwards when he should have stayed back, failed to support the wider players, got bullied several times by Xhaka, and showed a worrying lack of pace.
      As things stand, I'd much rather see him play in front of Henderson in a staggered 3 (possession play) until he really gels with his teammates.
      Once he and the other lads get that understanding, I'm sure he'll be fine. It just takes a bit of time in systems as complex as Klopp's.

      He was covering the holes that were being exposed by Arsenal.

      Ask yourself how we’re Arsenal able to find so many free players in midfield at will.
      There is only Fabinho he can’t cover every opposition midfielder!


      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,602 posts | 1876 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #418: Nov 05, 2018 06:46:20 pm
      He was covering the holes that were being exposed by Arsenal.

      Ask yourself how we’re Arsenal able to find so many free players in midfield at will.
      There is only Fabinho he can’t cover every opposition midfielder!

      He really wasn't.
      In fact he was covering very little, hence so many saying he had a poor game.

      Trying to blame his poor game on other players really is scraping the barrel.

      The other lads did reasonable jobs, Fabinho didn't.
      Even an out of sorts Wijnaldum kept the shape well, and did what was asked of him, he just didn't shine in the way he has this season.

      Like I said, Fabinho will have better games; it's very early days for him, but trying to blame other players for his lack of speed, awareness, physical frailty, poor passing and being out of position is just silly.
      He'll get better at all those things, and what he can't control he can make up for by developing other attributes.
      LFCSTEVE1984
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,648 posts | 368 
      Re: Fabinho Player Thread
      Reply #419: Nov 07, 2018 09:33:30 am
      The lad is still adapting. Give him time you can already see he is a level above what we have, well I can anyway.

      https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fabinho-admits-hes-still-adapting-15376470.amp

      Quick Reply