Trending Topics

      Next match: Chester v LFC [Friendly] Sat 7th Jul @ 3:00 pm
      Swansay Chester Stadium

      Today is the 25th of June and on this date LFC's match record is P0 W0 D0 L0

      Spending vs. Success

      Read 530 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • Started Topic
      • 22,420 posts | 2939 
      Spending vs. Success
      May 31, 2018 05:49:43 pm
      This seems to get discussed in individual threads maybe a good topic to have consolidated into one thread, saw this graphic and thought it was pretty interesting. It's pretty self-explanatory. Obliviously this was created for someone looking at Dortmund specifically but applies to us as well.

      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 12,788 posts | 2166 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #1: May 31, 2018 06:28:37 pm
      This seems to get discussed in individual threads maybe a good topic to have consolidated into one thread, saw this graphic and thought it was pretty interesting. It's pretty self-explanatory. Obliviously this was created for someone looking at Dortmund specifically but applies to us as well.



      Dortmund's relative success was all under Klopp.

      You can always get outliers like Leicester and Monaco but success always regresses back to those who spend most = more successful.

      Football club owners are not stupid otherwise why would the spend hundreds of millions on players!

      Probably also shows how much we have wasted in the recent years just to stay still.
      5timesacharm
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,327 posts | 855 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #2: May 31, 2018 09:16:22 pm
      You forget the comparative competition within a league. Of the big five leagues, only Serie A comes close to the Premier League for competition. It's a lot easier for a club like Dortmund to gain success in a league like Germany's when they realistically only have to compete against one other club. During lean times for Bayern, rebuilding phases for example. For us we're having to compete against five other clubs, so if United go through a rebuilding phase, that still leaves Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and City. Spending isn't the be all and end all of things, but it is important.
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 11,356 posts | 2173 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #3: May 31, 2018 11:26:49 pm
      The one improvement we have made ... whether down to a change in recruitment personnel or whatever... is that the specific targeting of quality players who are proving to be successfully integrated into the team, is a step up from the scattergun "squad" player level we used to get.

      5timesacharm
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,327 posts | 855 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #4: May 31, 2018 11:41:34 pm
      The one improvement we have made ... whether down to a change in recruitment personnel or whatever... is that the specific targeting of quality players who are proving to be successfully integrated into the team, is a step up from the scattergun "squad" player level we used to get.

      There appears to be more long term planning and definitely more joined up thinking. The constant factionalism that plagued Brendan Rodgers has vanished under Klopp, either by force of his personality or a realisation that it was hampering our ability to progress.
      7-King Kenny-7
      • Lives on Sesame Street
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 36,890 posts | 2230 
      • You'll Never Walk Alone!
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #5: Jun 01, 2018 01:15:02 am
      Unfortunately to have success, or reach a point and either improve or sustain it, you have to spend now. The amount of money teams have is ridiculous. City won the league by a country mile but will still spend over 100mill this summer in a bid to keep their title. The days of having a squad like the Mancs used to have, or Arsenal back in the early 2000’s where you could keep virtually the same squad but still win the league again the following season are long gone. Just look at Leicester, they won the league by a complete fluke, but they were never going to even come close to being able to even compete to retain their title because they don’t have the spending power. It’s not all about the money in the sense that it guarantees success, you still need to sign the right players, have the right system etc, unlike the Mancs who sign players based on name more than anything...Falcao, Di Maria, Pogba etc. You need to spend for success now but it needs to be spent on the right players.
      Probably why nobody seems able to retain the Premier League title at the moment, because rival teams are spending heavily too.
      CT_LFC
      • Forum Didi Hamann
      • ***

      • 285 posts | 68 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #6: Jun 01, 2018 02:34:46 am
      City, United, PSG, Real and Barcelona are in a league of their own when it comes to purchasing power, so yes, i agree you need to spend to be able to compete with them. However, unless you are one of those 5 teams i listed, spending for the sake of spending gets you nothing so it has to be complemented by a good operations and scouting team who can identify the right players as well as extracting as much as possible from departing players.

      As mentioned already, in Germany you only have to deal with Bayern and i think Klopp realized it is much tougher in the PL when you have drunk spending like City and United, and that is why he has splashed the cash on the likes of Keita, VVD, Fabinho and Salah, each of which cost more than our previous transfer record before Klopp arrived. At Dortmund he bought a lot more "projects" while at Liverpool he has gone for more established players but still young enough with plenty of upside.
      skolRED
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,189 posts | 76 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #7: Jun 02, 2018 09:43:55 am
      For me, the strangest thing in football in my recent memory is the way Bayern Munich recruit their players. They keep buying best players and often from their weaker opponent every window ruthlessly in the league they almost already without competitor. I look at them and I think it's funny, I'm struggle to make myself proud of my club if they are the team I follow.

      In real life maybe that's the right thing and other teams also work similarly but I'm still feel uncomfortable with the way they do it.
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 11,356 posts | 2173 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #8: Jun 02, 2018 01:02:01 pm
      For me, the strangest thing in football in my recent memory is the way Bayern Munich recruit their players. They keep buying best players and often from their weaker opponent every window ruthlessly in the league they almost already without competitor. I look at them and I think it's funny, I'm struggle to make myself proud of my club if they are the team I follow.

      In real life maybe that's the right thing and other teams also work similarly but I'm still feel uncomfortable with the way they do it.

      Mourinho does the same.

      They bought Lukaku to stop anyone else buying him at the time .
      Guardiola saw right through mercenary Sanchez ...but Utd were still waiting in the wings.
      A case of denying other clubs whether the player is actually needed or not.
      If you can afford to waste that kind of money ... so be it.
      Billo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 6,301 posts | 223 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #9: Jun 02, 2018 03:13:15 pm
      I remember watching a interview on BBC world, they interviewed a guy who knew/ or worked with oil sheikhs investment companies. I can't remember who he was but what he has said has stuck in my head. It was back when psg was bought.
      He said that these Arabs guys aren't as stupid as some of us think they are.
      They have a long term plan and they are going to spend money to achieve it.
      They know that the clubs cant make them huge money like land investment but it still can provide some payback in form of influence.
      look at the sheikh Mansoor. The city owner.

      They just don't buy the best players but the whole infrastructure of the club is much solid. 442 magazine did a piece on their training facilities and youth setup. It was supposed to be the best in country.
      there fanbase are growing as a rapid pace, and that's because they are always in the big leagues and fighting for trophies.
      there are probably young Suarez in Uruguay now who is playing as city on his Playstation. So in few years, money won't be the only thing that attracts big players to them.

      I use to be a romantic minded and went around and thought. We have to win the league without throwing around money but don't feel it anymore. I just want to win the league even with overpaying for players.
      Robby The Z
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • *****
      • 2,287 posts | 413 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #10: Jun 02, 2018 04:11:57 pm
      I would be interested in someone able to break down the relative improvement gained by buying new every year. What I mean is, you mentioned the United teams of 10-15 years ago or Liverpool teams in the 80s, maintaining most of the starting XI and staying on top season after season.

      We've seen this past season with United and their spending. How much better did it make them as a team. There's no doubt, for instance, Pogba would have been considered one of the top purchases in world football, but did he really make that much of an impact with this team, this season?

      I'm certainly not arguing that spending has a relationship to success. You need great players. But there has to be some value placed on how those players fit together, how they fit with a manager's planning - how they thrive in a certain type and size of squad.

      We have much more direction in our recruitment policy than we did in the past. I'm sure of that.
      lfc across the water
      • Needs a Klopp hug...Rafa's Number 1 fan.
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,930 posts | 300 
      Re: Spending vs. Success
      Reply #11: Jun 04, 2018 08:44:22 pm
      Quote from skolRED
      For me, the strangest thing in football in my recent memory is the way Bayern Munich recruit their players. They keep buying best players and often from their weaker opponent every window ruthlessly in the league they almost already without competitor. I look at them and I think it's funny, I'm struggle to make myself proud of my club if they are the team I follow.

      In real life maybe that's the right thing and other teams also work similarly but I'm still feel uncomfortable with the way they do it.

      Isn't that why clubs sign players? To make their team better?

      Bayern Munich are one of the best run clubs in the world. A board of ex-players  who know what they're doing and know how to do it. The fans are also involved in how it is run. That is very different to our owners and their way of running the club.

      Spending may be linked to success, but transfer fees are so big now that the fee is almost an after thought. Last year, 40 million was a serious amount for this club to sign a player. We're now paying it as a basic rate now. So much so that the Salah fee is now considered a "bargain". We had to pay the going rate for VVD, and it's been fully justified.

      Alternatively, Barcelona spent much more than that on Dembele, didn't want him after he got injured, and now they can't get rid of him. 30 years ago, the British record transfer fee was smashed again, for 2 million quid. It wouldn't even buy you a reserve player today. So transfer fees are often not a great indication of a player's value nowadays.

      Quick Reply