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      UEFA Champions League 2018-19 Winners Liverpool:

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      lfc across the water
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #253: Feb 17, 2019 08:08:18 pm
      The teams have a number of challenges, but umpires can review calls such as runouts, if a ball is caught after it drops, no ball issues, or ask if boundaries are 4 or 6 runs.

      They've been using video refs for 30 years. It hasn't taken anything away from their sport, instead it has enhanced it. People still go and still celebrate, whether or not the wicket stands. If they can do it in their sport, they can do it in ours.
      Kopite78
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #254: Feb 17, 2019 08:19:54 pm
      The teams have a number of challenges, but umpires can review calls such as runouts, if a ball is caught after it drops, no ball issues, or ask if boundaries are 4 or 6 runs.



      That's a completely different point so stop digging if you don't understand the sport. Look I've played first class cricket, I know it more than football.
      You notice I didn't say rugby because I haven't ever played it or watched it or have any interest in it

      In cricket a captain has two challenges.. that's it simple (if he overturns his challenge then he still keeps his two, if he's wrong he loses it)

      You originally said that every wicket is checked
      It isn't

      Again a captain has two appeals

      The rest is on the umpire. If the umpire is happy with his decision than he doesn't get it checked.
      Even if he gets it wrong and the captain has used his appeals it's stays
      Simple

      What you're now suggesting is that if the umpire isn't sure he will ask for clarification but that isn't on wickets apart from potentially if a catch has carried (but even then he will give a “soft signal” which is favoured)

      He may ask for clarification on a 4 or a 6 or a run out yes but not on a tradition wicket
      He gives his decision and if the captain or batsmen doesn't challenge it stands regardless if he has it wrong or not

      If he gives a wrong lbw but the batting team is out of challenges it won't be called back by the 3rd umpire
      No chance

      The only time he may get called back is on a front foot no ball

      You're talking idiosyncrasies not wickets

      They've used 3rd umpires for a couple of decades but not how your were suggesting, not checking every wicket
      No chance you're wrong

      It's a different sport to football as well in that example as it's stop start, natural breaks in play not a 90 minute football match where there are far less natural stoppages in play

      Anyway whether I like VAR or not or you do doesn't matter as it's coming in. I don't like it.. you do
      Sound

      But you're wrong on cricket 100%.. but you admitted that yourself I guess by saying to start with that every wicket is checked to umpires can review calls
      « Last Edit: Feb 17, 2019 08:40:57 pm by Kopite78 »
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #255: Feb 17, 2019 09:02:04 pm
      That's a completely different point so stop digging if you don't understand the sport. Look I've played first class cricket, I know it more than football.
      You notice I didn't say rugby because I haven't ever played it or watched it or have any interest in it

      In cricket a captain has two challenges.. that's it simple (if he overturns his challenge then he still keeps his two, if he's wrong he loses it)

      You originally said that every wicket is checked
      It isn't

      Again a captain has two appeals

      The rest is on the umpire. If the umpire is happy with his decision than he doesn't get it checked.
      Even if he gets it wrong and the captain has used his appeals it's stays
      Simple

      What you're now suggesting is that if the umpire isn't sure he will ask for clarification but that isn't on wickets apart from potentially if a catch has carried (but even then he will give a “soft signal” which is favoured)

      He may ask for clarification on a 4 or a 6 or a run out yes but not on a tradition wicket
      He gives his decision and if the captain or batsmen doesn't challenge it stands regardless if he has it wrong or not

      If he gives a wrong lbw but the batting team is out of challenges it won't be called back by the 3rd umpire
      No chance

      The only time he may get called back is on a front foot no ball

      You're talking idiosyncrasies not wickets

      They've used 3rd umpires for a couple of decades but not how your were suggesting, not checking every wicket
      No chance you're wrong

      It's a different sport to football as well in that example as it's stop start, natural breaks in play not a 90 minute football match where there are far less natural stoppages in play

      Anyway whether I like VAR or not or you do doesn't matter as it's coming in. I don't like it.. you do
      Sound

      But you're wrong on cricket 100%.. but you admitted that yourself I guess by saying to start with that every wicket is checked to umpires can review calls

      Can i ask who you played 1st class cricket for ?
      Kopite78
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #256: Feb 18, 2019 09:04:00 am
      The teams have a number of challenges, but umpires can review calls such as runouts, if a ball is caught after it drops, no ball issues, or ask if boundaries are 4 or 6 runs.



      Also by the way on this you're only talking international cricket where a captain or team has two appeals

      Most first class cricket they don't and every decision is simply made by the umpire and that includes run outs or even as basic as a four or six ( in that example if they aren't sure they will take the nearest fielders say)

      So in international cricket some decisions are checked
      In the vast majority of first class cricket none are checked..  zero

      Anyway my point being that I don't belive every goal should be checked to see if there are the tiniest reason to disallow, for me, like in cricket it should be there to remove the clanger which is how it's used in cricket (in the recent England West Indies series there was a caught behind given by the umpire on Buttler I think it was, he missed it by an inch, he had an appeal left so used immediately and it was overturned, it removed a clanger.. however had his team had no reviews left he would have to walk, likely kick the sh*t out of his coffin but take it all the same.. he wouldn't be called back by the third umpire). It should be used if the ref has made a mistake... not for the marginal tiny aspects that can be taken out of context when slowed down and looked at 10 times to convince yourself of something

      If it's an obvious error it should stand out with one look and go yeah that's an error
      Not look 15 times trying to find the error

      The one in this match is for me a perfect example of that

      I know it's coming in but currently for me they aren't using it correctly and it's more frustrating than a relief that errors are being rectified

      So yeah I know it's coming in and I know that won't change, I just hope the utilisation of it changes
      Can i ask who you played 1st class cricket for ?

      Sorry mate just saw that, I'll pm you if you like, it will derail the tread even more (even though I believe it was a natural derailment in discussion to that point 😄 )
      « Last Edit: Feb 18, 2019 09:08:10 am by Kopite78 »
      heimdall
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #257: Feb 18, 2019 11:32:29 am
      Also by the way on this you're only talking international cricket where a captain or team has two appeals

      Most first class cricket they don't and every decision is simply made by the umpire and that includes run outs or even as basic as a four or six ( in that example if they aren't sure they will take the nearest fielders say)

      So in international cricket some decisions are checked
      In the vast majority of first class cricket none are checked..  zero

      Anyway my point being that I don't belive every goal should be checked to see if there are the tiniest reason to disallow, for me, like in cricket it should be there to remove the clanger which is how it's used in cricket (in the recent England West Indies series there was a caught behind given by the umpire on Buttler I think it was, he missed it by an inch, he had an appeal left so used immediately and it was overturned, it removed a clanger.. however had his team had no reviews left he would have to walk, likely kick the sh*t out of his coffin but take it all the same.. he wouldn't be called back by the third umpire). It should be used if the ref has made a mistake... not for the marginal tiny aspects that can be taken out of context when slowed down and looked at 10 times to convince yourself of something

      If it's an obvious error it should stand out with one look and go yeah that's an error
      Not look 15 times trying to find the error

      The one in this match is for me a perfect example of that

      I know it's coming in but currently for me they aren't using it correctly and it's more frustrating than a relief that errors are being rectified

      So yeah I know it's coming in and I know that won't change, I just hope the utilisation of it changes
      Sorry mate just saw that, I'll pm you if you like, it will derail the tread even more (even though I believe it was a natural derailment in discussion to that point 😄 )

      Come on, who did you play for, was it someone really sh*t and that's why you won't tell us? ;-)

      I like var and in a few years we'll all be used to it, it enhances most other sports so why not football as well?
      Kopite78
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #258: Feb 18, 2019 11:40:57 am
      Come on, who did you play for, was it someone really sh*t and that's why you won't tell us? ;-)

      I like var and in a few years we'll all be used to it, it enhances most other sports so why not football as well?

      Like I said if it's used right then sound ... my opinion is currently it isn't

      Just opinion like

      Again if you think that in its current form all is ok then No problem
      heimdall
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #259: Feb 18, 2019 12:36:49 pm
      Like I said if it's used right then sound ... my opinion is currently it isn't

      Just opinion like

      Again if you think that in its current form all is ok then No problem

      Its a work in progress, there will always be some teething issues but \I think by and large VAR has been used well, certainly it was in the World Cup.
      waltonl4
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #260: Feb 18, 2019 03:55:05 pm
      The Governing bodies need to decide who the F**k is in charge and it should be the Ref's shout if he wants to review something or I can see games last for two hours and the total atmosphere of games changing and not for the better
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #261: Feb 18, 2019 04:42:02 pm
      The Governing bodies need to decide who the f**k is in charge and it should be the Ref's shout if he wants to review something or I can see games last for two hours and the total atmosphere of games changing and not for the better

      I am sure if it's up to the ref if he wants to have a look himself on the screen
      lfc across the water
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #262: Feb 18, 2019 10:58:41 pm
      Quote from Kopite78
      Also by the way on this you're only talking international cricket where a captain or team has two appeals

      Most first class cricket they don't and every decision is simply made by the umpire and that includes run outs or even as basic as a four or six ( in that example if they aren't sure they will take the nearest fielders say)

      So in international cricket some decisions are checked
      In the vast majority of first class cricket none are checked..  zero

      It should be used if the ref has made a mistake... not for the marginal tiny aspects that can be taken out of context when slowed down and looked at 10 times to convince yourself of something

      If it's an obvious error it should stand out with one look and go yeah that's an error
      Not look 15 times trying to find the error

      The one in this match is for me a perfect example of that 

      I didn't need to look 15 times to see it was an error, but I would be prepared to if necessary. Offsides are black and white calls. It doesn't matter if it's 1 yard or 10, it's still offside, and it needs to be put right at the time, which it was.

      I was obviously talking about international cricket, that usually have the facilities to correct errors at the time. It is the highest level of competition with the most at stake, and every resource should be made available to ensure that nothing is overlooked. Whether it's teams reviewing or umpires clarifying or third umpires ruling on no balls and run outs, that's what I meant by saying everything was checked.

      On the other hand, last year's cricket world cup qualifiers had no DRS available, so nobody could appeal for anything. The first round didn't even have cameras let alone video umpires, which allowed wrong decisions to be made and countries eliminated after questionable calls. It annoys spectators and upsets players in any sport when wrong decisions are allowed to stand, and all the effort they've put in is wasted by something beyond their control, even more so when the issue is easily fixed.

      There are about 20 minutes of stoppages in the average football game, ranging for everything from goal kicks to free kicks and throw ins, so there are plenty of breaks to check things. A minimum of 3 minutes are lost per game, just for substitutions. When we gain advantages such as the goal scored recently, I would have no issue with it if it was overturned, even after celebrating in good faith. People say it happened to us before, but when it has happened to us, I'm outraged. Two wrongs don't make a right.

      You would not board a train or a plane or a bus or a boat, if you didn't trust the person in charge to always make the right decision. You wouldn't agree to have an operation if you thought your surgeon was error prone. I'm aware they are different situations but the principle is exactly the same. Errors at the very highest level are not tolerated, and certainly not when there's 100 million quid and/or people's livelihoods on the line, as there often is in our sport, and will be in the competitions we're in. Coaches can be and have lost their jobs this season, after games they didn't win when a wrong call was made. All just to cut corners and save a couple of minutes. That is not right on a sporting, or other level.

      Tomorrow, every major decision will be proper and correct as per the laws of the game as they stand, however long it takes. VAR may not be needed to step in on the night itself, but someday soon, it will be.
      Kopite78
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #263: Feb 19, 2019 07:25:08 am
      I didn't need to look 15 times to see it was an error, but I would be prepared to if necessary. Offsides are black and white calls. It doesn't matter if it's 1 yard or 10, it's still offside, and it needs to be put right at the time, which it was.

      I was obviously talking about international cricket, that usually have the facilities to correct errors at the time. It is the highest level of competition with the most at stake, and every resource should be made available to ensure that nothing is overlooked. Whether it's teams reviewing or umpires clarifying or third umpires ruling on no balls and run outs, that's what I meant by saying everything was checked.

      On the other hand, last year's cricket world cup qualifiers had no DRS available, so nobody could appeal for anything. The first round didn't even have cameras let alone video umpires, which allowed wrong decisions to be made and countries eliminated after questionable calls. It annoys spectators and upsets players in any sport when wrong decisions are allowed to stand, and all the effort they've put in is wasted by something beyond their control, even more so when the issue is easily fixed.

      There are about 20 minutes of stoppages in the average football game, ranging for everything from goal kicks to free kicks and throw ins, so there are plenty of breaks to check things. A minimum of 3 minutes are lost per game, just for substitutions. When we gain advantages such as the goal scored recently, I would have no issue with it if it was overturned, even after celebrating in good faith. People say it happened to us before, but when it has happened to us, I'm outraged. Two wrongs don't make a right.

      You would not board a train or a plane or a bus or a boat, if you didn't trust the person in charge to always make the right decision. You wouldn't agree to have an operation if you thought your surgeon was error prone. I'm aware they are different situations but the principle is exactly the same. Errors at the very highest level are not tolerated, and certainly not when there's 100 million quid and/or people's livelihoods on the line, as there often is in our sport, and will be in the competitions we're in. Coaches can be and have lost their jobs this season, after games they didn't win when a wrong call was made. All just to cut corners and save a couple of minutes. That is not right on a sporting, or other level.

      Tomorrow, every major decision will be proper and correct as per the laws of the game as they stand, however long it takes. VAR may not be needed to step in on the night itself, but someday soon, it will be.

      😁

      Stop moving the goalposts to try to justify yourself

      Let's just agree to disagree. I'm happy to do so and move on
      😄
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #264: Feb 20, 2019 07:47:51 pm
      I am going for an Atletico Madrid win with Griezmann scoring and doing a fortnite celebration which will annoy 7-KK-7  :D
      chats
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #265: Feb 20, 2019 08:13:53 pm
      Admire the job Simeone has done over the years with Atletico but he hasn't half developed a squad of utter tw*ts there with the way they beg the ref to produce cards every two minutes.
      heimdall
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #266: Feb 20, 2019 08:24:07 pm
      How on earth are Shalke in the last 16, they are really sh*te! Incredible the luck Citeh are having with the draws in all comps,even getting chavs rather than Spurs in league Cup final.
      German_Panzer
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #267: Feb 20, 2019 08:28:14 pm
      Can somebody explain to me how City always gets these early goals? It's something we lack.
      heimdall
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #268: Feb 20, 2019 08:30:36 pm
      Can somebody explain to me how City always gets these early goals? It's something we lack.

      They are very very good at crossing the ball in the box, it's a great tactic, one I'd wish we tried some more, plus some more creativity at set pieces where we really suck!
      shabbadoo
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #269: Feb 20, 2019 08:38:31 pm
      VAR...

      Penalty to Shalke after taking almost 3 mins to make a decision..
      Kopite78
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #270: Feb 20, 2019 08:43:00 pm
      VAR...

      Penalty to Shalke after taking almost 3 mins to make a decision..

      Which after 3 minutes they get wrong
      shabbadoo
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #271: Feb 20, 2019 08:45:27 pm
      Penalty again to Shalke.. could go 2-1 up👍🏼
      waltonl4
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #272: Feb 20, 2019 08:45:46 pm
      City 2-1 down now
      shabbadoo
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #273: Feb 20, 2019 08:49:58 pm
      Get in City’s faces & they crack..
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #274: Feb 20, 2019 08:54:50 pm
      Admire the job Simeone has done over the years with Atletico but he hasn't half developed a squad of utter tw*ts there with the way they beg the ref to produce cards every two minutes.

      I do agree, but If I were an Atletico fan, I would prefer a squad of utter tw*ts than a bunch of cucks that roll over like Everton.
      heimdall
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      Re: UEFA Champions League 2018-19
      Reply #275: Feb 20, 2019 08:58:04 pm
      Which after 3 minutes they get wrong

      Disagree, I thought it was 2 penalties.

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